1421:, alright. It seems that these islands are already described as Island 1, 2, and 3; thank you for the information. I was just saying that it would be confusing to the readers by switching naming conventions, whether it be with north/south or with numbers. Even better would be to say "Island 1, or the north side, is...". I would argue that the island numbering is not intuitive to the reader, and would require that the sources be read to understand the numbering reference. Naming the north side as Island 1 without AKA designation would seem counter intuitive to the reader. I will leave the decision making to you, but I would say that having a header on Island 2 and a header on Island 3 but no header on Island 1 is not a step in the right direction, but this is not technically required for GA.
1642:, hey there again! In case it wasn't clear, I want to reiterate that using the numbers for the island is not necessarily bad, as long as it is very clear what island "Island 2" refers to, or "Island 1" or "Island 3". However, this is now a non-issue. If you would like to reimplement the numbered islands, then that is your prerogative. The reason why I made it into an issue was because it was not obvious what the numbers of the islands referred to, and I brought it up a second time because there was no longer a consistent naming convention. BUT, this has all been taken care of. The article meets the GA criteria, as all of the POV, OR, and (specific) MOS issues have been taken care of, and I will be promoting it now! Congratulations!
1327:
reference of "early 1910s" in the second paragraph is contradicted by the main hospital expanding in 1909, meaning that the former will need to be rewritten, and the latter should be moved elsewhere. Chronology does not need to be strictly followed from paragraph to paragraph, but it should at least when discussing the same topic. In this case, both paragraphs talk about the early improvements specific to 1909-1919, and I can't find a reason to not place the events in order here.
1508:. The rating provided is what I have come to find based on my findings after reading the whole article, and not just the suggestions that I gave. I will finish up with my small-scale issues very soon; I wish I could have done it all at once, but there is a lot of content to consume, so I hope you understand. Everything that I mention is easily fixable though, so I'm confident that this will become a Good Article very soon. Cheers!
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1560:, my review is complete. If you would like to take a look at the rest of the comments I made (and replies to yours), feel free to do so, as this is all of the current issues that I found. Once you fix these, I'll glance over the article one last time to search for any problems that escaped my first takes. Take it away, and good luck!
1358:
The problem with this is that
Islands 2 and 3 are currently fused together as one island. The ferry building is not in either island 1 nor in combined islands 2 or 3. Geographically, islands 2 and 3 are the same size as island 1. Instead I have renamed "Island 1" to "North Side" and "Islands 2 and 3"
821:
This sentence could use a re-structure to something such as "While there were no casualties, the wooden buildings had completely burned down after two hours, and all immigration records had been destroyed." The double coordinated conjunction drags the sentence out. This is really just a nitpick on my
1373:
Thank you for the clarification; I now understand the reasoning behind this decision. Because the islands were labeled 1, 2, and 3, it was hard to perceive the significance of one island compared to the others. The body paragraphs still refer to islands 1, 2, and 3 though; I would run with your idea
1466:
I've moved that paragraph accordingly and trimmed it. I still think the fact that the Jersey City Fire
Department serves Ellis Island is pretty interesting, though, especially since Ellis Island is otherwise isolated completely from the mainland. Also, the helicopter medevac is interesting to me as
1277:
The "Public access" subsection, while having a theoretical use, is not implemented properly. Currently, the section serves as a way to detail the different types of methods that the island can be visited, such as what tours are available, the services provided by the ferries, and travel-plans (i.e.
1254:
Your mention that the fees go to Save Ellis Island adds the necessary clarification that I was looking for, and addresses the issue well. My piece was that the mention that "funds go to the preservation of the south side of the island" was mentioned twice and alluded to at two others points. Saying
1602:
Finishing the conversation down here. All that I see left to do is to fix the island naming that I brought up above; after that, I would be willing to grant the article GA status. The reason why I am currently leaving the "on hold" status on the article is because this is the last polish that this
1481:
We can agree to disagree with the medevac, but I suppose that because this doesn't promote the island or it's tours, there isn't anything wrong with keeping it. I am a fan of how you organized the notable services. After a second thought, I do agree that the Jersey City Fire
Department serving the
1461:
I don't think the "Emergency
Services" section should exist; the emergency services are rather explanatory and not important enough to be included in the article. Maybe somewhere in the "Current Use" there could be a one sentence mention of "The emergency services are operated by the United States
1353:
The levels of subheadings should be consistent in the
Structures heading. I don't think "Ferry Building" should be a Level 3 Heading. I don't think "Islands 2 and 3" should have a heading; instead, make "Island 2" and "Island 3" Level Three Headings to match that of "Island 1". Separating between
1293:
I have resolved the second one and part of the first. However, I feel it is important to mention where the ferries go (since these are the only two ferries to the island), as well as the hard-hat tours (otherwise, we'd be mentioning the south side of the island without any info as to whether it's
1227:
The noble cause that this may be, the first sentence is unnecessary to the article, and the second sentence should be removed due to a lack of context, unless there's a way to mention how proceeds from the tour helped fund preservation efforts of the south side of the island. I'd lean towards not
1395:
I don't want to confuse the readers by relying exclusively on named attributes, but I did trim some instances of island numbering. Island 2 refers to the northern half of the southern side of Ellis Island, and island 3 refers to the southern half of the southern side of Ellis Island. It may get
589:
Also unencyclopedic, and not necessary for an article. I understand that you are writing with good intentions, which is why the article was nominated in the first place. Still, Knowledge is not a means to promote tours of the island, regardless of the intention. This is one of the "large" scale
1326:
The two paragraphs of "Immigration commissioner
William Williams made substantial changes to Ellis Island's operations...from 878,000 immigrants per year in 1914 to 26,000 per year in 1919." is not chronological when referring to the improvements made to the building. For example, the initial
1281:
The
Etymology subsection is not necessary. It overlaps with the content in the history section, which is much more elaborate and well-written, and interrupts the article's chronologic structure. I would suggest moving the content from the Etymology section, and including it all in the History
1228:
including it because the information comes off as redundant after hearing about the Save Ellis Island movement, who's goal is to do the same thing. (Very bluntly, "This cause helps fund preservation efforts of the south side. This tour also helps fund preservation efforts of the south side.")
1059:
Remove "even"; it reads as if the writer was just as surprised as the reader. This sentence is supposed to set up the next sentence that talks about how "the government wanted immigrants to have at least...". However, this could be mentioned in the sentence prior to this when listing example
952:
This article has many references, but I'd say that a statement like this would need a statistic to support it's inclusion. This sentence, as it serves without a reference, is an inference made by the author about the effects of converting the island into a detainment center.
690:"By the mid-1790s, increased military tensions with Britain and France sparked an interest in fortifying New York Harbor, and a U.S. congressional committee had drawn a map of possible locations for the First System of fortifications to protect major American urban centers."
735:"The individual states had their own varying immigration laws until 1875, but the federal government regarded Castle Clinton as having "varied charges of mismanagement, abuse of immigrants, and evasion of the laws", and as such, wanted it to be completely replaced."
584:"All ferry riders are subject to security screening, similar to airport procedures, prior to boarding. Visitors intending to tour Ellis Island's south side must purchase a "Hard Hat Tour" ticket, which charges an additional fee on top of the regular ferry ticket."
1308:
You can keep the ferry destinations, I will agree. My problem that I found with it was that the article suggested travel plans and additional services offered. The three elements of my first large-scale comment have been resolved, so that bit seems fine to me.
550:
This is a borderline tangent that could probably be removed. I get where you were going with this, being that "private boats can't dock on the island", but I don't think this is necessary, especially because you use the island's booking costs as a reference.
662:"He unsuccessfully attempted to sell the island nine years later, and subsequently owned of the island until he died in 1794. As per his will, the ownership of Ellis Island passed to his daughter Catherine Westervelt's unborn son, who was also named Samuel."
667:"Subsequently" isn't the correct word, but I'd like to see the fragment it is a part of removed. End the first sentence with him attempting to sell the island, and begin the next with "after he died in 1794" to keep related subjects in the same sentence.
495:
Alright. One of my "2020 goals" was to help out with the GAN backlog more than I had in the past, as NPP can become exhausting at times. Now, to the review. The article looks fine, don't get me wrong, but these are some points that I wanted to address:
959:
Fewer and fewer new immigrants, all of whom now received a final federal inspection on the ships entering New York Harbor, were sent to Ellis Island because their papers were not in order, their status was questioned, or they required medical
1543:, no worries, because I'm in the same boat. I'm going to head out soon, and I'll finish leaving my comments tomorrow night for you. Thank you for the work you did on the article! (This nomination was lying dormant for quite some time...)
850:
While not an incorrect statement, the "proved to be inadequate" is not very encyclopedic, even if it is a common term elsewhere. I'd suggest "which was unable to handle the large volume of immigrants". Adequacy is subjective.
1030:
Second half of sentence is unnecessary as it repeats the same point but with the tone of an essay. Alternatively, the parallel structure can be kept, but just not as a list of unencyclopedic descriptions.
608:
It is mentioned both here and in the "South side" section. I personally believe that mentions of this tour should be contained to specifically one section, but this change is not required for GA.
545:"No charge is made for entrance to the Statue of Liberty National Monument, but there is a cost for the ferry service that all visitors must use, as private boats may not dock at the island."
511:
What was the purpose at this time? Was the military using Ellis Island as a detention center during World War I and II? It is not currently clear the way that the sentence is stitched.
1222:"which charged an additional fee on top of the standard ferry ticket to Liberty and Ellis Islands. The additional fee revenues would help fund the preservation of the south side."
1127:
Unnecessary and promotional. The point that there are many educational opportunities / guided tours is clear in the first two sentences. The rest of it is not encyclopedic.
713:
I brought this sentence up because the subject was not clear about who was the person / group that sparked an interest. Because this has been clarified, this is accepted.
506:"After 1924, Ellis Island was used primarily as a detention center; during both World War I and World War II its facilities were also used by the United States military."
1282:
instead, where it can be inserted into relevant locations. The only content being dissolved is the header. The naming of Kioshk can be kept, but in the history instead.
1025:"By the late 1960s, the abandoned buildings were deteriorating severely: vandalism was rampant, weeds were growing everywhere, and the seawall was falling into the bay."
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907:"Without fanfare" is unnecessary to include, and something that alludes to this effect would need to be revised to match an encyclopedic tone. What was the reaction?
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I would give names the government and the contractor to provide context (such as New York or
American government, and I'd use the contractor company's name as well).
594:
I removed the first sentence. I trimmed the second sentence, but the Hard Hat Tour is mentioned in the history as well, so I think it makes sense to mention it here.
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845:"Following the fire, passenger arrivals were again processed at the Barge Office, which soon proved to be inadequate for handling the large volume of immigrants."
1199:
Remove "despite having been renovated in 2007" from this sentence, the word "despite" prompts an opinion of "how is not accessible already, it's been 13 years!"
1122:"Their popular immersive experience "The Journey" sees students create immigrant personas...and really find a lot of those connections in their own communities."
1060:
questions. Something like "Arrivals were asked a couple dozen questions including name, occupation, and how much money they carried. The government wanted..."
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816:"No one died, but the wooden buildings had burned down within two and a half hours, and all of the original immigration records from 1855 were ruined."
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Popular is subjective, and this instance cannot be supported with reliable sources, unlike the other usages of "popular". How is this myth popular?
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947:"This resulted in a steep drop in immigration to Ellis Island, because inspections were now primarily conducted aboard ships in New York Harbor."
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1054:"The government even asked immigrants how much money they carried, to determine whether new arrivals would be self-sufficient upon arrival."
1526:, thanks very much for the detailed comments. I'll resolve them tomorrow, as these seem extensive and it's almost midnight where I am.
1354:
which islands are in New York and which islands are in New Jersey isn't important enough to split the heading levels on this premise.
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that the funds go to the organization responsible for it makes all the more sense, and answers the questions that readers may have.
788:"On June 15, 1897, the wooden structures on Ellis Island were razed in a fire of unknown origin, possibly caused by faulty wiring."
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1278:"a combined trip is possible" bit). This information shouldn't be included in an encyclopedia, but rather the island's website.
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tribe. While the Lenape may have inhabited this area, none of the sources name the tribe "Lenape", but name "Mohegan" instead.
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Castle
Clinton is not mentioned anywhere in the source, unless this refers to Castle Garden. Why use "Clinton" in that case?
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902:"The new immigration station opened without fanfare on December 17, 1900, and on that day 2,251 immigrants were processed."
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Replaced with "led". Save Ellis Island was really the only entity that worked in this capacity. Not even the NPS cared.
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874:"the project ran into delays because of various obstacles and disagreements between the government and the contractor."
695:
Who "sparked an interest"? Regardless, the term is a figure of speech, and cannot be supported. Exactly what happened?
1194:"The ferry building remains only partially accessible to the general public, despite having been renovated in 2007."
1504:
Okay: the article isn't bad; far from it. The reason why there are so many entries here is because the article is
525:
I tried to rephrase this. During both the world wars, the military used Ellis Island to detain prisoners of war.
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The increased military tensions. I rephrased this to remove the figure of speech and make it more direct.
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1438:, I will do that. Is there anything else this article is missing for GA status?
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What you added does the job, clarifies the name to match the reference.
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article needs. The article meets the GA criteria everywhere else.
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for how islands 1 and 2/3 are divided into halves and quarters.
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This is sourced by the reference provided in the next sentence:
925:"Celebration" is better than "fanfare" in my opinion. Accepted.
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It was unceremonious, i.e. without any opening celebration.
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but that would be a redirect. I added a clarifying detail.
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Use something to the effect of "beginning", or "start".
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1621:, Thanks for the comment. I have addressed that now.
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Remove puffery surrounding the movement, per list at
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the rest of the way, and remove the numeric labels.
428:and other media, where possible and appropriate.
1574:Thanks, I have addressed all of these issues.
975:Understandable. I'm fine with this reasoning.
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1338:I have reordered these events accordingly.
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1482:island is good to include.
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748:. I could use the wikicode
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406:No edit wars, etc.
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1359:to "South Side".
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750:Castle Garden
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339:major aspects
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117:Article talk
116:
112:
93:
90:
81:Instructions
1273:Large-scale
1238:Partly done
500:Small-scale
221:word choice
104:visual edit
1638:Epicgenius
1623:epicgenius
1598:Epicgenius
1576:epicgenius
1558:Epicgenius
1541:Epicgenius
1528:epicgenius
1469:epicgenius
1440:epicgenius
1417:Epicgenius
1402:epicgenius
1361:epicgenius
1340:epicgenius
1296:epicgenius
1242:epicgenius
1176:epicgenius
1168:WP:PEACOCK
1143:epicgenius
1104:epicgenius
963:epicgenius
960:treatment.
913:epicgenius
754:epicgenius
701:epicgenius
596:epicgenius
566:epicgenius
527:epicgenius
310:plagiarism
254:verifiable
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
478:Pass/Fail
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
1398:this map
157:contribs
76:Criteria
1138:Trimmed
804:Removed
637:Mohegan
472:Overall
353:focused
306:copyvio
225:fiction
127:history
108:history
94:Article
1644:Utopes
1619:Utopes
1605:Utopes
1562:Utopes
1545:Utopes
1524:Utopes
1510:Utopes
1484:Utopes
1467:well.
1436:Utopes
1423:Utopes
1391:Utopes
1376:Utopes
1334:Utopes
1311:Utopes
1289:Utopes
1257:Utopes
977:Utopes
927:Utopes
768:Utopes
715:Utopes
610:Utopes
425:images
400:stable
398:It is
376:policy
328:It is
247:It is
227:, and
217:layout
188:It is
173:review
147:Utopes
1099:Fixed
1042:Fixed
822:end.
650:Fixed
451:with
229:lists
175:(see
136:Watch
16:<
1648:talk
1627:talk
1609:talk
1580:talk
1566:talk
1549:talk
1532:talk
1514:talk
1506:long
1488:talk
1473:talk
1444:talk
1427:talk
1406:talk
1380:talk
1365:talk
1344:talk
1315:talk
1300:talk
1261:talk
1246:talk
1210:Done
1180:talk
1147:talk
1108:talk
1071:Done
1013:Done
981:talk
967:talk
931:talk
917:talk
890:Done
862:Done
833:Done
772:talk
758:talk
719:talk
705:talk
678:Done
614:talk
600:talk
570:talk
562:Done
531:talk
522:Done
308:and
251:and
213:lead
211:for
181:here
177:here
151:talk
123:edit
100:edit
209:MoS
1650:)
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480::
474::
457::
445:b
439::
431:a
408::
402:.
384::
378:.
357::
349:b
343::
335:a
332:.
314::
302:d
296::
292:OR
288:c
282::
274:b
268::
260:a
257:.
233::
223:,
219:,
215:,
205:b
199::
195:a
192:.
171:GA
159:)
125:|
106:|
102:|
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