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describe what a glide reflection or screw motion is, has no discussion of differential geometry, only mentions 'analytic geometry' per se in a throwaway aside, barely mentions other coordinate systems (and what little it does is inaccessibly jargony/abstract), makes no mention of the geometry of oriented planes, etc. etc. The fundamental notions that make a "Euclidean space" are lines (and higher-dimensional flat subspaces), parallelism, angles and perpendicularity, and distance and spheres. Just as planar
Euclidean geometry substantially focuses on lines and line segments, angles, triangles and circles (and then also conics, algebraic curves, ...), higher-dimensional Euclidean geometry substantially focuses on those same planar objects and higher-dimensional analogs like tetrahedrons, spheres, and quadrics.
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790:, why does it matter, what implications does it have (Berger spends 2 volumes on this subject, only a few pages of which we are describing here), what is its mathematical context, how has the idea changed over time, etc. Or when it comes to formal definitions per se: why was this one chosen, which other definitions are equivalent, how does it relate to definitions of other structures, and so on. For instance, this article currently makes no mention of
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829:, then proceeding to discuss axiom systems, a (currently very incomplete and somewhat idiosyncratic) historical summary, an idiosyncratic smattering of sentences and pictures about applications, and concrete details mainly provided as examples rather than as the primary topic. It would also be great to dramatically improve the article
379:}; that is, it identifies clearly and unambiguously the subject of the article in a way that is understandable to everybody. The same applies to the short description, which is aimed to help to recognize the searched article in the result of a search query. This aim is clearly and perfectly fulfilled by the present short description.
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generally coming here because they want to find out the formal/technical details and logical ordering of the basic definition(s) Marcel Berger chose to use in his (very fine) textbook, which was convenient for his particular purposes of setting up a framework for the rest of the book, in a logically
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Having both a singular and a plural form would be very confusing to most readers. The ambiguity between “the
Euclidean space” (which is three dimensional) and “a Euclidean space” (which can have any dimension), is not an artefact of Knowledge, but relies on the common use. So, it cannot be resolved
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It’s fine to make a separate article (which can even be significantly expanded). However, all of the material currently on this page is easily in scope (indeed, the material on this page should be further expanded here), and removing it and replacing with a useless 'excerpt' is a major regression.
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There should be an article at 'Euclidean space', it should focus on
Euclidean space per se as its primary topic (but also including discussion of the relationship to non-Euclidean, pseudo-Euclidean, affine, projective, etc. spaces), and it should encompass both the basic geometry and more abstract
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The same is to some extent true of this article in general. As many concepts/sections as possible should be pitched to be legible to e.g. high school students or laypeople. It should include more specific details about concrete geometrical figures (or at least obvious links to other articles where
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The standard way to mathematically define a
Euclidean space, as carried out in the remainder of this article, is as a set of points on which a real vector space acts, the space of translations which is equipped with an inner product. The action of translations makes the space an affine space, and
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It’s wild to me that this article does not discuss the concepts of spheres or conics/quadrics (or any other curves or surfaces) or simplexes (or any other polyhedra), only mentions the word "triangle" in the context of the triangle inequality and does not mention the word "trigonometry", does not
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Today, a well-meaning editor added a one-sentence paragraph to the lede, stating that
Euclidean space is a metric space. That's true, but it's just one of many such statements that could be added. I propose that the paragraph be either deleted or expanded --- perhaps to something like, "Euclidean
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Euclidean space is the fundamental space of geometry, intended to represent physical space. Originally, that is, in Euclid's
Elements, it was the three-dimensional space of Euclidean geometry, but in modern mathematics there are Euclidean spaces of any positive integer dimension, including the
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is far too general and abstract and filled with jargon. This section should focus on isometries of
Euclidean space specifically, describe them concretely and in lay-accessible language with concrete examples and link to more advanced (abstract) articles for anyone who wants a more expert-level
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This article is about the current mathematical concept of
Euclidean space. There is essentially one example per natural number. The evidence suggests that the example corresponding to the natural number 2 is at least as old as the example corresponding to the natural number 3.
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consistent order, intended for a 2-semester undergraduate course. Readers of Berger's book per se can just directly refer to the relevant definitions in context. Instead, many readers who come here are looking for a more accessible and/or broader view: what is the concept
1395:. Moreover, I do not agree that "the" Euclidean space is the three-dimensional one. That is contrary to my sense of the math literature, where the word "space" does not imply three dimensions. The sentence, that Fgnievinski is citing from this article, should be changed.
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The lead reluctantly gives out a definition only in the last paragraph. Definitions should appear in the opening sentence. The short description is equally vage: "Fundamental space of geometry". Can we anticipate some sort of definition, e.g., "Euclidean space is a
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Most of the time there's no problem figuring out from context which among
Euclidean 3-space vs. any Euclidean space is intended. When there is some ambiguity authors can just explicitly say "Euclidean 3-space" or "any Euclidean space" or whatever.
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does not currently successfully define what that means, and makes a poor redirect target. (Aside: This article could probably also do a better job in the lead section of clearly describing what makes a space "Euclidean" per se.)
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I agree that some such material as I mentioned in my previous comment could also conceivably fit in an article titled 'Euclidean geometry'. But elaboration about such details mostly does not fit particularly well at the article
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and a couple of other editors broke the equilibrium and essentially re-wrote it (mostly for the better, in my opinion). My point is that the current text is, in a sense, new/immature and ripe for continued polishing/expansion.
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The renaming was necessary to make more explicit the scope of the present article. It is not specifically about the ordinary three-dimensional
Euclidean space, it's about the general case of Euclidean spaces of any dimension.
1370:. Most people -- including scientists, engineers, etc. (mathematicians excepted) -- would equate "Euclidean space" with 3D, not n-dimensional spaces. (I'd like to thank for the arguments, pro or con, and note this is not a
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formula", the definite article "the" is wrong, as the linked article uses "a space"; also, "Euclidean distance formula" is not defined in Knowledge, and as far as I know, it is not definied either in any reliable source.
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The lede currently says that three-dimensional Euclidean space was the first example. The nearest citation does not support this claim. I suspect (without citation) that two-dimensional Euclidean space was the first
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That section doesn't define a unique "Euclidean distance formula", but instead gives several examples of formulae, all of which calculate Euclidean distance in different situations or given different information.
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This is mostly incoherent to someone without significant math background; we are more or less assuming someone has studied 2+ years of undergraduate level pure math courses before trying to approach this
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That's a crucial point: should the article title reflect the usage in modern mathematical literature or the broader literature in physics, science, engineering, etc.? How about a less verbose version: "
500:(plural in space geometry of books 11–13) as specific spaces. (By the way, this is a difficult problem for a non-native English speaker to know when an article is needed before "space" and when not.)
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in which "space" was the three-dimensional space of both the physical world and the mathematical one (which were clearly distinguished only centuries later). The (Euclidean) plane was not called a
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833:, which is currently a wreck. But even if we assumed that those articles were rewritten / dramatically expanded, the scope of this article should be broad enough to include a summary. –
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Even if we accepted the current structure this article is very hard for non-expert readers. For example the concepts of "inner product" and "affine space" are first mentioned as:
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The citation is about the existence of Euclidean spaces of any dimension, not about the origin of the concept (I guess without having accedded to it). "Originally" refers to
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You raise good points. If I recall history correctly, this article sat at a particular, heavily contested equilibrium for many years. Then, over the past year or two,
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or about the changing conception of Euclidean space as the focus shifted from studying physical forces toward rigid motions for their own sake (concretely studied by
613:? That article should (at least as a summary) cover most of the same ground as this one, but then go into further detail about geometry that is specifically planar. –
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This article seems pretty good in structure/content (albeit with insufficient references to external sources). Does anyone here want to take a crack at cleaning up
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are different articles. Both leads could certainly be improved for better resolving the ambiguities, but playing with article titles is certainly not a solution.
390:" is certainly a Euclidean space, but the converse is wrong: A Euclidean space where coordinates are not defined is not a coordinate space. Similarly, in "the
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I agree that "model" is not convenient in the first sentence, as being somehow anachronic. I'll replace it with "represent". Also, I'll add a reference to
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by manipulating article titles. Apparently, you did not read the second sentence of the article, which is clearly intended for explaining this ambiguity.
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1155:– This article has been the subject of moves, reverts and technical requests. Opening this RM to assess if there is indeed consensus to move it.
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It should be singular, following prevailing practice in the majority of Knowledge articles. It is trivial for authors of other pages to write
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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makes it seem that books 1-10 deal with 2D geometry (with digressions into non-geometric topics) and books 11-13 deal with 3D geometry.
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This probably does not need to be in the lead section, but it could be useful to add to a new section near the bottom of the page.
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this allows defining lines, planes, subspaces, dimension, and parallelism. The inner product allows defining distance and angles.
548:"Euclidean distance formula" is not defined in Knowledge, and as far as I know, it is not definied either in any reliable source.
670:. Ideally any discussion would aim to be lay-accessible, leaving interested readers to click through for more advanced coverage.
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Also, except for mathematical oriented physical literature, “Euclidean space” is not used in physics. Physicists use normally "
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This seems like a serious regression. The name 'Euclidean space' is significantly more common and just fine for this topic. @
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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can you please try to start up conversations and reach some kind of consensus before making sweeping disruptive changes? –
666:) could profitably fill out at least one top-level section near the bottom. There is a little bit of relevant material in
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the Euclidean distance between two points in Euclidean space is the length of a line segment between the two points
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as it is currently structured. That article is organized around meta-discussion, starting with a description of
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three-dimensional Euclidean space, the Euclidean plane (dimension two) and the Euclidean line (dimension one).
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says: "Euclidean space is the fundamental space of geometry, intended to represent physical space". I.e.,
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is linked from the "see also" section, but that and other structures generalizing Euclidean space (e.g.
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1207:. I've started this RM to see if we can formally document consensus. I'm personally against this move.
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If I am right, then the claim that Euclidean space aims to model physical space needs to be clarified.
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Your sugggestions are not only much too technical for the lead, but are also mathematically wrong: A "
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before 19th (or possibly 18th) century. So, the plane is far from being the first example of a space.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Euclidean space is understood as the three-dimensional one. Otherwise, where should the redirect
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This is not a definition in the mathematical sense, but it follows exactly the guideline
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Euclidean space is the fundamental space of geometry, aimed to model the physical space.
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in anything they say. All I'm proposing is to invert the definition given in article
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I agree with the opponents to this move, and I have requested to revert the move at
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space is an important archetype for many kinds of spaces in mathematics, including
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Incoming links have mixed usage and would deserve disambiguation, for example: in
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Joking aside, I think this focus poorly serves many/most readers. Readers are
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This should need further discussion. However, in my opinion, most topics that
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discussion discussion. Readers would be better served by e.g. material about
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be targeted? Knowledge serves a wide audience and titles should reflect the
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those are discussed) and less reliance on lofty abstraction and jargon.
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I agree with Jacobolus, that this name change is an anti-improvement.
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for some of this, except that article has most of the same problems. –
496:(without? article, when used in the sense of the 10 first books) and
566:. To break circularity, the norm would be defined first in terms of
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topics, including most of what is currently on this page. Having
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Why was this moved from 'Euclidean space' to 'Euclidean n-space'
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spacetime ("Minkowski space") is explicitly non-Euclidean. In
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I've just linked as written literally and inserted the number
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in Euclidean space, ignoring Laguerre's dual geometry of
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The first paragraph should define or identify the topic
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if that name makes more grammatical sense in context.
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Talk:Geometric_space#Splitting_from_Euclidean_n-space
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1550:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Mathematics
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1050:sfn error: no target: CITEREFSolomentsev2001 (
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1000:is much worse in my opinion. –
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1273:. Clear disimprovement. See
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1258:Kj cheetham
1223:Fgnievinski
1191:fgnievinski
1170:I disagree
1121:move review
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920:mathematics
857:Fgnievinski
572:fgnievinski
354:fgnievinski
276:Mathematics
267:mathematics
223:Mathematics
31:not a forum
1524:Categories
1130:not moved.
1034:References
924:Euclidean
922:there are
587:XOR'easter
490:originally
352:formula"?
1497:jacobolus
1471:jacobolus
1305:jacobolus
1239:Dr. Vogel
1231:Jacobolus
1209:Dr. Vogel
1157:Dr. Vogel
1090:jacobolus
1002:jacobolus
932:dimension
905:Euclid's
861:jacobolus
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711:jacobolus
664:Lp spaces
633:manifolds
615:jacobolus
447:Euclid's
433:Euclid's
192:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1445:D.Lazard
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1021:D.Lazard
907:Elements
897:geometry
817:article.
758:D.Lazard
643:, ...".
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454:D.Lazard
449:Elements
435:Elements
414:example.
401:D.Lazard
373:MOS:OPEN
331:D.Lazard
140:365Â days
123:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1372:WP:VOTE
1352:Support
955:physics
928:-spaces
303:on the
194:B-class
1397:Mgnbar
1389:Oppose
1292:Oppose
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1227:Mgnbar
1205:Oppose
979:Mgnbar
951:spaces
796:points
774:, not
732:Mgnbar
645:Mgnbar
517:Mgnbar
498:planes
472:Mgnbar
419:Mgnbar
200:scale.
788:about
778:. ;-)
754:space
546:said
494:plane
486:space
181:This
84:Seek
1449:talk
1439:and
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1329:Cube
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73:and
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295:Top
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