1065:
in foods, and drugs.com claims doses of up to 350mg/kg/day (several times higher than the recommended dose on commercial fenugreek supplements, 3,000-6,000mg per day) are safe. The wikipedia pages seems to be inferring from the sources that fenugreek is snake oil with no real benefit, which does seem to have been reflected in the old sources, however the revised sources strongly imply that fenugreek is safe, non-toxic at normal doses, and may have benefits that haven't been fully explored. In this sense the tone of the wikipedia article stands in contrast to the websites it's citing. Reading through the guidelines on medical citations you provided, it seems to me that the wikipedia article should not adopt such a tone if the sources themselves do not justify it.
306:
768:
747:
542:
237:
864:
466:
207:
297:
376:
778:
366:
339:
1064:
Thankyou for your attention on this matter, and your revisions have certainly improved the article. However it does still seem to reflect outdated sources and not the current versions of the citations. There is safe dosing information, both nih.gov and drugs.com say it's safe in amounts commonly used
1172:
which include 1) low quality of the included research, 2) vast heterogeneity of the data analyzed, 3) heterogeneity of the subjects having various disorders of metabolic syndrome, which is a complex of several subdiseases, and 4) extreme range of doses and durations used in the studies included (25
967:
I'm new to
Knowledge, so I don't feel comfortable making an edit, but as far as the "900%" increase in breast milk production - the citation points to a dead link. The only relevant line on the breasfeeding.org site that it points to is this- "Options are herbal galactogogues such as fenugreek (no
1284:
I'm not sure on what grounds you've chosen to disregard that study (and I'm not sure why you think 7 years old is significant enough to mention, that's not even old). The scientific literature is even more convincing for the case that fenugreek can play a role in controlling blood sugar levels in
1033:
Limited clinical trial data suggest fenugreek extracts may have a role in the therapy of dyslipidemia, diabetes, and
Parkinson disease; however, studies were limited and provided inconsistent dosing information, making it difficult to provide recommendations. Anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and
1098:
is highlighted as a concern because the review's authors plainly explain the extensive weaknesses of studies included, such as by concluding "the low quality of the included papers, the vast amount of heterogeneity in the data, and research involving patients with various metabolic conditions;
1176:
These variations and limitations in study design and error control emphasize the overall variable, poor quality of dietary supplement and food studies of fenugreek or any dietary element. Reaching a conclusion for the article "that fenugreek could meaningfully " affect biomarkers of metabolic
992:
I review the citation to back up the claims of increased libido and to be honest I am not impressed... 2 of the references point toward newspaper article with 0 scitific values, 1 link points toward a studies that made the claim: a study of such poor quality should not even been considered in
1042:
The key word in the the Drugs.com quote is "limited", meaning - as that source and others cited in the
Research section say - the quality and amount of clinical research have been absent from the literature due to various design errors in the trials. For Knowledge, this means there are no
1320:
You might not like the state of the scientific research in this area and claim that more research is needed to be more certain of the claims, but to flatly say there's no evidence supporting the claim that this substance could have benefits or effects on the human body is just plain
1141:
Source 4 specifies: "Several coumarin compounds have been identified in fenugreek seeds, as well as a number of alkaloids (eg, trigonelline, gentianine, carpaine), including the alkaloid hydroxyisoleucine, which is considered to stimulate insulin secretion." (The drugs.com source)
1173:
to 60000 mg/day and durations of dosing for 2 to 144 weeks). Not assessed or discussed are dietary and lifestyle factors impossible to control unless the subjects in the underlying studies were in a controlled environment (such as a hospital clinical trial unit).
1228:
If your argument is there other studies that were unable to show a correlation then you have to at the very least change the statement to it not being "no good evidence" but rather it is scientifically controversial as to whether it increases milk production.
1038:
Clearly more research has been done since 2020 when that webpage was originally cited and it is no longer true to say there is no evidence. At the very least the citation needs to be removed since it does not support the claim being cited.
436:
1232:
Fenugreek has also been shown to independently cause hormone changes in men as shown in other scientific studies (namely increased testosterone, measured directly in some and measured as increased performance in weight lifting).
1374:
310:
1184:
For the encyclopedia - which should be presenting clear facts supported by scientific consensus (not available for any review on fenugreek) - such limitations warrant the review not be included in the article.
1316:
This systematic review and meta-analysis of 20 randomized controlled trials found that fenugreek supplementation significantly reduced fasting blood glucose, insulin levels, and HOMA-IR in people with type 2
153:
1364:
474:
349:
1309:
This meta-analysis of 14 randomized controlled trials showed that fenugreek supplementation significantly decreased fasting blood glucose, HbA1c, and homeostatic model assessment for insulin resistance
1025:
I'm not an expert here, and it's clear you guys have been at this for a while, but the claim "there is no clinical evidence that fenugreek has therapeutic properties." is not reflected in the citation
1379:
1200:
The authors acknowledge the limitations of the study, but I think this should be included in the research section because it points to research being done and research which should be continued. --
691:
project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
1297:
This meta-analysis of 12 studies concluded that fenugreek significantly improved fasting blood glucose, 2-hour post-load glucose, and HbA1c in people with both prediabetes and type 2 diabetes.
1327:
1240:
876:
190:
705:
993:
Knowledge. And the last link points towards a reviews of studies about type 2 diabetes (the author of this paper also noted the very poor quality of all the studies on the matter)
670:
529:
1349:
1291:
This meta-analysis of 10 clinical trials found that fenugreek seeds significantly reduced fasting blood glucose, 2-hour post-load glucose, and glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c).
931:
The health claims make fenugreek look like magic potion. I don't have the time to track down the references but this page reads like a pamphlet in a naturopath's office.
1389:
426:
147:
198:
1394:
692:
699:
1223:
1303:
This systematic review and meta-analysis of 18 clinical trials found that fenugreek had a significant effect in reducing fasting blood glucose and HbA1c.
79:
1359:
1047:
sources to say anything about a "clinical" (meaning in use and recommended by reputable physicians and clinical organizations) or therapeutic effect.
402:
1384:
1404:
1369:
838:
828:
85:
1409:
975:
938:
552:
389:
344:
1078:
To wit - fenugreek used to be considered hokum, but upon further study it appears that there may be some truth to it's claims after all.
479:
1010:
804:
44:
1222:
Anyone who's taken a cursory look will not only see studies but meta analyses on fenugreek doing just that. One of many examples:
1331:
1244:
1399:
1354:
99:
30:
1236:
As it stands this article is written very contradictory to the general scientific understanding of the effects of fenugreek.
1177:
diseases is misleading and not a conclusion that any reputable clinical organization would state - see top of left pyramind,
104:
20:
74:
791:
752:
319:
168:
1224:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320315882_Effectiveness_of_fenugreek_as_a_galactagogue_A_network_meta-analysis
274:
135:
65:
1239:
I would have made some changes myself, but I'm on mobile and it's too much effort to add references on a smartphone
401:
related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
206:
185:
681:
278:
895:
217:
883:
194:
1270:. As it stands, the article is accurate according to mainstream clinical literature and scientific consensus.
1219:
It makes a few patently false claims like "there's no good evidence that fenugreek increases milk production"
979:
942:
1014:
109:
1266:
does not meet MEDRS), please provide it for review here. Use of fenugreek to treat any medical disorder is
997:
958:
129:
1151:
723:
325:
1169:
1095:
954:
125:
1147:
1099:
extrapolating of our findings to the general population should be with caution." In the review under
1006:
971:
934:
296:
1178:
1108:
1104:
282:
161:
55:
1122:
adequately explains the weak state of science and absence of effect by fenugreek on human health.
803:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
901:
222:
175:
70:
1001:
1205:
968:
controlled studies but generally recognized as safe)..." The previous commenter is correct.
575:
541:
51:
1267:
1255:
1103:, the authors explain the high degree of variability in studies included, all of which were
916:
897:
863:
677:
236:
219:
953:
The author cites references. Please refute them authoritatively or withdraw your objection.
1259:
1044:
245:
1215:
This article is currently very far from scientific literature on the effects of fenugreek
1146:
Helpful data to include, especially for further researching the potential side effects.
1114:
Studies like this are of dubious value in writing for the encyclopedia - I recommend we
767:
746:
1275:
1190:
1127:
1055:
634:
141:
1343:
783:
1201:
1118:
include it. Until we have higher quality research to report, the last paragraph of
600:
1168:
was justified because the review authors describe in the results and conclusions
660:
381:
773:
465:
371:
1271:
1186:
1123:
1119:
1051:
604:
24:
1026:
273:) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
1306:
4. Zhu et al. (2021) - Published in
Complementary Therapies in Medicine:
998:
https://www.sci.news/medicine/trigonelline-cognitive-function-12296.html
1107:
in design, i.e., in the category of low-quality evidence, according to
777:
375:
899:
800:
612:
221:
1262:
review in a reputable clinical journal (a 7 year old publication in
1294:
2. Gong et al. (2016) - Published in
Journal of Ethnopharmacology:
796:
676:
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review
656:
638:
608:
592:
588:
584:
398:
1335:
1279:
1248:
1208:
1194:
1155:
1131:
1059:
1018:
983:
962:
946:
664:
630:
596:
580:
394:
365:
338:
1375:
Knowledge level-5 vital articles in
Biology and health sciences
1288:
1. Neelakantan et al. (2014) - Published in
Nutrition Journal:
902:
857:
290:
231:
223:
15:
1313:
5. Rafraf et al. (2022) - Published in
Phytotherapy Research:
1300:
3. Dutta et al. (2017) - Published in Phytotherapy Research:
1002:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11357-023-00919-x
464:
1365:
Knowledge vital articles in Biology and health sciences
1165:
1091:
1048:
519:
514:
509:
504:
160:
1380:
C-Class vital articles in Biology and health sciences
795:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
393:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1034:
cytotoxic properties have yet to be fully explored.
477:, a task force which is currently considered to be
447:
1101:3.1. Systematic review and study characteristics
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
910:This page has archives. Sections older than
174:
8:
1350:Knowledge articles that use British English
700:Category:Knowledge requested images of food
1004:
741:
492:
444:
333:
249:, which has its own spelling conventions (
1027:https://www.drugs.com/npp/fenugreek.html
996:It's not a magic potion. See the recent
473:This article is within the scope of the
743:
335:
294:
1390:Mid-importance Food and drink articles
920:when more than 5 sections are present.
1170:the study's "significant limitations"
1161:Dubious effects on metabolic syndrome
281:, this should not be changed without
7:
789:This article is within the scope of
411:Knowledge:WikiProject Food and drink
387:This article is within the scope of
1395:WikiProject Food and drink articles
698:Provide photographs and images for
549:Here are some tasks you can do for
414:Template:WikiProject Food and drink
23:for discussing improvements to the
14:
1328:2A00:5400:F006:A424:1:1:18C3:89FC
1241:2A00:5400:F006:A424:1:1:18C3:89FC
914:may be automatically archived by
1360:Knowledge level-5 vital articles
862:
776:
766:
745:
704:Consider joining this project's
540:
374:
364:
337:
304:
295:
235:
205:
45:Click here to start a new topic.
1385:C-Class Food and drink articles
833:This article has been rated as
726:from the project's tasks pages.
669:Participate in project-related
431:This article has been rated as
1405:High-importance plant articles
1370:C-Class level-5 vital articles
1137:Hypoglycemia Risk - Mechanism?
689:{{WikiProject Food and drink}}
324:It is of interest to multiple
1:
1209:13:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
1087:Whether to cite a weak review
807:and see a list of open tasks.
405:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
1195:17:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
1132:02:04, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
1019:15:17, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
963:15:26, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
947:03:06, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
813:Knowledge:WikiProject Plants
1410:WikiProject Plants articles
1049:Updates and revisions here.
816:Template:WikiProject Plants
475:Herbs abd spices Task Force
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
1426:
839:project's importance scale
553:WikiProject Food and drink
527:To edit this page, select
437:project's importance scale
390:WikiProject Food and drink
1336:15:35, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
1280:18:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
1249:12:10, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
1031:What it actually says is
984:00:56, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
927:Exaggerated health claims
832:
761:
496:Food and Drink task list:
491:
472:
443:
430:
359:
332:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
1156:20:49, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
1060:00:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
684:to learn how to do this.
417:Food and drink articles
1400:C-Class plant articles
1355:C-Class vital articles
1258:national guideline or
722:Note: These lists are
647:articles currently at
621:articles currently at
569:Status or below up to
469:
75:avoid personal attacks
1285:people with diabetes:
1264:Phytotherapy Research
706:Assessment task force
468:
311:level-5 vital article
199:Auto-archiving period
100:Neutral point of view
1120:the research section
671:deletion discussions
279:relevant style guide
275:varieties of English
105:No original research
565:articles currently
448:Related taskforces:
277:. According to the
792:WikiProject Plants
682:WP:Handling trivia
576:Agaricus bisporus
470:
320:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
1021:
1009:comment added by
1000:, original paper
974:comment added by
937:comment added by
924:
923:
889:
888:
853:
852:
849:
848:
845:
844:
740:
739:
736:
735:
732:
731:
719:
718:
579:(i.e. mushroom),
561:Help bring these
487:
486:
289:
288:
230:
229:
66:Assume good faith
43:
1417:
1096:this 2022 review
986:
949:
919:
903:
880:
879:
866:
858:
821:
820:
817:
814:
811:
786:
781:
780:
770:
763:
762:
757:
749:
742:
727:
544:
536:
535:
493:
455:
445:
419:
418:
415:
412:
409:
384:
379:
378:
368:
361:
360:
355:
352:
350:Herbs and Spices
341:
334:
317:
308:
307:
300:
299:
291:
242:This article is
239:
232:
224:
210:
209:
200:
179:
178:
164:
95:Article policies
16:
1425:
1424:
1420:
1419:
1418:
1416:
1415:
1414:
1340:
1339:
1217:
1163:
1139:
1089:
969:
932:
929:
915:
904:
898:
871:
835:High-importance
818:
815:
812:
809:
808:
782:
775:
756:High‑importance
755:
728:
721:
715:
712:in this section
645:High Importance
545:
524:
453:
416:
413:
410:
407:
406:
380:
373:
353:
347:
318:on Knowledge's
315:
305:
283:broad consensus
246:British English
226:
225:
220:
197:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
1423:
1421:
1413:
1412:
1407:
1402:
1397:
1392:
1387:
1382:
1377:
1372:
1367:
1362:
1357:
1352:
1342:
1341:
1325:
1324:
1323:
1322:
1318:
1314:
1311:
1307:
1304:
1301:
1298:
1295:
1292:
1289:
1286:
1254:If you have a
1216:
1213:
1212:
1211:
1162:
1159:
1145:
1138:
1135:
1088:
1085:
1084:
1083:
1082:
1081:
1080:
1079:
1071:
1070:
1069:
1068:
1067:
1066:
1036:
1029:
990:
989:
988:
987:
976:108.14.103.108
939:71.237.182.219
928:
925:
922:
921:
909:
906:
905:
900:
896:
894:
891:
890:
887:
886:
873:
872:
867:
861:
855:
851:
850:
847:
846:
843:
842:
831:
825:
824:
822:
819:plant articles
805:the discussion
788:
787:
771:
759:
758:
750:
738:
737:
734:
733:
730:
729:
720:
717:
716:
714:
713:
702:
696:
685:
674:
667:
641:
635:French cuisine
619:Top Importance
615:
563:Top Importance
558:
547:
546:
539:
534:
533:
523:
522:
517:
512:
507:
501:
498:
497:
489:
488:
485:
484:
471:
461:
460:
458:
456:
450:
449:
441:
440:
433:Mid-importance
429:
423:
422:
420:
408:Food and drink
403:the discussion
386:
385:
369:
357:
356:
354:Mid‑importance
345:Food and drink
342:
330:
329:
323:
301:
287:
286:
240:
228:
227:
218:
216:
215:
212:
211:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1422:
1411:
1408:
1406:
1403:
1401:
1398:
1396:
1393:
1391:
1388:
1386:
1383:
1381:
1378:
1376:
1373:
1371:
1368:
1366:
1363:
1361:
1358:
1356:
1353:
1351:
1348:
1347:
1345:
1338:
1337:
1333:
1329:
1319:
1315:
1312:
1308:
1305:
1302:
1299:
1296:
1293:
1290:
1287:
1283:
1282:
1281:
1277:
1273:
1269:
1265:
1261:
1257:
1253:
1252:
1251:
1250:
1246:
1242:
1237:
1234:
1230:
1226:
1225:
1220:
1214:
1210:
1207:
1203:
1199:
1198:
1197:
1196:
1192:
1188:
1182:
1180:
1174:
1171:
1167:
1160:
1158:
1157:
1153:
1149:
1143:
1136:
1134:
1133:
1129:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1112:
1110:
1106:
1105:observational
1102:
1097:
1093:
1086:
1077:
1076:
1075:
1074:
1073:
1072:
1063:
1062:
1061:
1057:
1053:
1050:
1046:
1041:
1040:
1037:
1035:
1030:
1028:
1024:
1023:
1022:
1020:
1016:
1012:
1008:
1003:
999:
994:
985:
981:
977:
973:
966:
965:
964:
960:
956:
952:
951:
950:
948:
944:
940:
936:
926:
918:
913:
908:
907:
893:
892:
885:
882:
881:
878:
875:
874:
870:
865:
860:
859:
856:
840:
836:
830:
827:
826:
823:
806:
802:
798:
794:
793:
785:
784:Plants portal
779:
774:
772:
769:
765:
764:
760:
754:
751:
748:
744:
725:
711:
710:project ideas
707:
703:
701:
697:
694:
690:
686:
683:
679:
675:
672:
668:
666:
662:
658:
654:
651:status up to
650:
646:
642:
640:
636:
632:
628:
625:status up to
624:
620:
616:
614:
610:
606:
602:
598:
594:
590:
586:
582:
578:
577:
572:
568:
564:
560:
559:
556:
555:
554:
548:
543:
538:
537:
532:
531:
526:
525:
521:
518:
516:
513:
511:
508:
506:
503:
502:
500:
499:
495:
494:
490:
482:
481:
476:
467:
463:
462:
459:
457:
452:
451:
446:
442:
438:
434:
428:
425:
424:
421:
404:
400:
396:
392:
391:
383:
377:
372:
370:
367:
363:
362:
358:
351:
346:
343:
340:
336:
331:
327:
321:
313:
312:
302:
298:
293:
292:
284:
280:
276:
272:
268:
264:
260:
256:
252:
248:
247:
241:
238:
234:
233:
214:
213:
208:
204:
196:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1326:
1263:
1238:
1235:
1231:
1227:
1221:
1218:
1183:
1179:WP:MEDASSESS
1175:
1164:
1144:
1140:
1115:
1113:
1109:WP:MEDASSESS
1100:
1090:
1032:
1011:68.46.21.155
1005:— Preceding
995:
991:
970:— Preceding
930:
911:
868:
854:
834:
790:
709:
688:
652:
648:
644:
643:Bring these
626:
622:
618:
617:Bring these
601:Ham and eggs
574:
570:
566:
562:
551:
550:
528:
478:
432:
388:
326:WikiProjects
309:
270:
266:
262:
258:
254:
250:
243:
202:
184:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
1166:This revert
1094:concerning
955:Enstardavid
933:—Preceding
917:ClueBot III
724:transcluded
708:. List any
693:select here
661:Burger King
382:Food portal
244:written in
148:free images
31:not a forum
1344:Categories
1310:(HOMA-IR).
1148:Bromallium
1317:diabetes.
1268:WP:FRINGE
1256:WP:MEDORG
1092:This edit
884:Archive 1
678:WP:Trivia
605:Soy sauce
573:status:
314:is rated
255:travelled
88:if needed
71:Be polite
25:Fenugreek
21:talk page
1260:WP:MEDRS
1202:Ben Best
1045:WP:MEDRS
1007:unsigned
972:unsigned
935:unsigned
912:300 days
869:Archives
687:Add the
655:status:
629:status:
480:inactive
267:artefact
203:300Â days
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
837:on the
510:history
435:on the
316:C-class
271:analyse
263:defence
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1321:false.
810:Plants
801:botany
797:plants
753:Plants
613:Yogurt
322:scale.
259:centre
251:colour
126:Google
877:Index
657:Apple
639:Sugar
609:Sushi
593:Drink
589:Curry
585:Bread
520:purge
515:watch
399:drink
303:This
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1332:talk
1276:talk
1272:Zefr
1245:talk
1206:Talk
1191:talk
1187:Zefr
1152:talk
1128:talk
1124:Zefr
1056:talk
1052:Zefr
1015:talk
980:talk
959:talk
943:talk
829:High
799:and
680:and
665:Fish
631:Beer
597:Food
581:Beef
530:here
505:edit
397:and
395:food
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1181:.
1116:not
1111:.
427:Mid
176:TWL
1346::
1334:)
1278:)
1247:)
1193:)
1154:)
1130:)
1058:)
1017:)
982:)
961:)
945:)
663:,
659:,
653:FA
649:GA
637:,
633:,
627:FA
623:GA
611:,
607:,
603:,
599:,
595:,
591:,
587:,
583:,
571:GA
557::
454:/
348::
269:,
265:,
261:,
257:,
253:,
201::
193:,
156:)
54:;
1330:(
1274:(
1243:(
1204::
1189:(
1150:(
1126:(
1054:(
1013:(
978:(
957:(
941:(
841:.
695:.
673:.
567:B
483:.
439:.
328:.
285:.
195:1
188::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.