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882:. Whenever there's a big event, there's a tendency to make spin-off pages related to it. This is blatant News, and over detail on a recent event. This deserves maybe 1 line in the main article on the attack, and a short paragraph on the page of the politician. It doesn't need a full page on its own. This is a short event that falls under news.
2008:
become eighteen years of age soon. This only applies to
Australian editors anyway, and overseas editors consistently published the details of George Pell's conviction on Knowledge (XXG). I'm pretty sure it regards the person's current age, as that was certainly the case with Kim Duthie who was 17 and then named in the media once she was 18.
1455:. I doubt that he would get as much as that, and might only be fined, but the offence is "punishable ... by imprisonment for one year or longer", which would instantly disqualify him from the parliament: Constitution s 44(ii). There would thus be a bit of a race between the process of prosecution and the date of the federal election.
1488:. Anning's act doesn't seem to come into that category: it was out of proportion to any possible second egging, he was bigger and he had mates. Not does it look like Anning was attempting an arrest, for which it would seem to have been sufficient to grab hold of the assailant or get mates to do so. Well, we shall see.
1167:, and is being reported around the world as important, as it was a protest action against racism and white supremacists... that the world is taking note of. We don't know much about Will Connolly. We don't know what will happen (why WP:DELAY exists) - but this isn't in the same class as Astro Labe headbutting Tony Abbott.
2110:. However we're not dealing with a Children's Court case, we're dealing with an event that happened on several news cameras. The media is allowed to report the name of the person in the video, but even if this were to be the subject of a Children's Court proceeding, we would not be allowed to identify that proceeding.
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that have already reported the name of the individual in question. As for the "a person who at the time of the alleged commission of the offence..." line, you seem to have misread what that refers to; it's talking about the penalties one would face for contravening an order (given by the age of perpetrator).
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An order is something published by the court in this case, it does not concern what media reports. We're not really dealing with the 17 year old as the accused party here, and it's highly unlikely this will be a
Children's Court matter. If anything, this will be a matter prosecuting the adult(s) that
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Please do not name or otherwise identify the 17-year-old until a consensus to do so has been established on this talk page. Charges could still possibly be brought against him, and he would be considered a child for legal purposes. Identifying him could then be illegal under
Victorian/Australian law
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It would probably be more accurate/appropriate to have a page of the history of things hurled at politicians. It is a time honoured protest, the origins of which may interest people - rotten fruit and vegetables, eggs... and of course the throwing of shoes. I still think this event is something more
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This article is not really about
Senator Anning, it's about Will Connolly. There should be a one line reference on the Senator's page that refers to the incident and references this page, but this page should absolutely stand. It is being reported around the world at a far more significant rate than
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It's not misleading, it's just that what you're quoting has no relevance to us. You should be looking at section 534 instead. "The subsection immediately afterwards" which you have now posted only says that people cannot contravene an order of the court, while the original subsection you posted was
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In all seriousness, several things would need to happen. That he becomes a party to a criminal proceeding, that the courts decide that publishing his name is serious enough to threaten sanctions, that
Knowledge (XXG) editors are liable for repeating what reliable sources report, and that he doesn't
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I think you're being a bit overzealous. The law you are citing (and the penalties thereof) refer to the contravening of a particular order made by the judiciary. Not only has such an order not been made, it is highly unlikely that an order of anonymity would be made, given the numerous news sources
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No, I'm not saying he's below the age of criminal responsibility. I'm referring to him as a child in the sense that he would most likely appear before the
Children's Court if tried for a criminal offence in Victoria. In other words, 'a person who at the time of the alleged commission of the offence
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The boy assaulted the
Senator with political motivation - Terrorism. It wasn't just an egging but a hit on the back of the head. Anning only slapped the assailant once in self defense. The boy was released with pending investigations, meaning that if Anning makes a formal complaint the boy will be
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The court order on Pell was addressed to all media, whether in
Australia or overseas. WP is published in the USA, but some of us are Australian contributors. I have a legal background, although not specifically in this area of law, but my sense of the matter (in no way formal advice!) is that WP
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Senator Fraser Anning’s views have no place in the government of our democratic and multicultural country. Within the bounds of
Australian law, we request that he be pushed to resign from his position as Senator, and if appropriate, be investigated by law enforcement agencies for supporting right
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I don't share your doubt. Charging is presumably being considered very carefully. It doesn't look like Anning was still under any threat, so punching the young man doesn't seem to have been in self-defence: he just lashed out. Even if it was in self-defence, an act in self-defence has to be "a
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DON’T DELETE If this article was merely to be merged into Fraser Anning’s, virtually all of it would be deleted. I think it’s worthwhile and is definitely a very important incident in the history of anti-racism in
Australia. Far right terrorism and far right groups are big news right now. The
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Goodness knows if this is even the most relevant piece of legislation - it's just the best result I could find with a quick search. Anyway, I'm much less concerned about the risk of Australian editors being prosecuted after having found established domestic sources that have named the teenager,
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If so, then perhaps indeed the article title should change to something like "Fraser Anning comments on Christchurch mosque shootings, and response", except that it is quite wordy and doesn't explicitly mention the egg aspect. "Fraser Anning's comments on Christchurch mosque shootings, and the
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Eggboy's lawyer has said that he wouldn't be pressing charges. Nobody knows if they're conscious. Sen Anning wouldn't necessarily know the wet stuff wasn't blood or a toxic substance like VX. The vision we have seen takes place in seconds. He wouldn't necessarily know that the Eggsiter's mobile
1717:, despite his being active on social media. Accordingly, I've removed his name from the article. Out of caution, I have done this quickly, without first reading up on relevant Knowledge (XXG) policies and guidelines. Please post below if you think I have overlooked something in my haste.
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Actually, upon reflection I also agree that of the three themes mentioned, only "Police investigation" belongs wholly on this page, while the "Censure" and "Removal of Senator" themes could be either omitted or perhaps briefly mentioned here (but covered in detail elsewhere). —DIV
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Well, consensus is obviously against me here, so I won't revert the changes in the article. However, I'd still advise editors based in Australia, and particularly Victoria, to think twice before referring to the teenager by name in their own contributions, given the following:
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He necessarily knew that he was still conscious and had not been hit by a heavy or sharp instrument. Let's wait for the evidence, which the police will be gathering from the many witnesses—including, it appears, a TV crew (Channel 10) and a reporter from a reputable newspaper
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wasn't a weapon. He certainly wouldn't know that he was 17 and went to a private school. He probably wouldn't know the colour of his underpants or his Chinese star sign. He wouldn't know what else what coming. Hence his neutralisation of Eggo is probably reasonable.--
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in all provinces of Australia is 10, and while being tried as an adult cannot occur without judicial waiver, he is not considered a minor in Australia (at least in the sense you're referring to him as). Secondly, as has been mentioned previously, a number of
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Section 253(5) of the Act says, "An order posted under this section must not contain any particulars likely to lead to the identification of the child who is a party to the proceeding." Admittedly I'm not a lawyer, but I'm yet to be convinced I've misread
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we give it a separate page. Until then, it should be merged with Anning's page--which already mentions the incident, although perhaps it can be elaborated on with the secondary sources here. This is one of the most egregious cases of recentism I've seen.
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both international and domiciled in Australia are reporting his name as "William Connolly" and therefore I am unaware of any issues in reporting his name on that front. Thirdly and finally, by posting the name that is being widely reported by
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something that the court has to follow when making an order. Neither subsection says that the court can't name a child, or that the media can't. It is not an order of the court to not publish the name, it's section 534 of the act which says
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There's absolutely no reason for us to not name him here. We're not bound to Australian law, no matter what Australians might think or desire, and we break stupid laws (for example, about depicting certain religious leaders) all the time
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policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
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I have also removed his name from this talk page, which required editing others' comments. I've added a signature wherever I've done so, but unfortunately have left something of a mess behind me. Apologies for taking these liberties,
2076:(5) An order posted under this section must not contain any particulars likely to lead to the identification of the child who is a party to the proceeding. (6) A person must not contravene an order made and posted under this section.
1752:- Struck out because I've reverted those removals, adding his name back in. Multiple Australian sources have named him, and the editors whose comments were affected have both posted against such changes being made in the article.
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section of the main article on Anning directs to this article for more information, implying that any details related to his interaction with or around the "Christchurch mosque shootings" could be included in this article.
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and the above 'unsigned' user. There is no need to burden the main article on the Senator with updates on this topic. It is quite normal for very specific matters to be treated in more detail in separate articles.
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When assessing risk, it's best to consider not just the likelihood of an event (in this case, being charged for contempt of court) but also the worst possible consequence of such an event (that being jail time Ă la
1046:"Recentism ... has positive aspects as well — up-to-date information on breaking news events, vetted and counter-vetted by enthusiastic volunteer editors, is something that no other encyclopedia can offer"
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Not impeachment, which is not in the Australian constitution and might not exist in Australian law "received" from England. The Change.org petition, addressed firstly to the Prime Minister, states:
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The number of signatures from those who want Anning impeached has just passed 1 million, and it continues to grow. I know you may delete this article, but it's worth pointing the updated number out.
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I doubt he's going to be convicted. He hasn't even been charged. He can argue he acted in self-defence and needed to arrest egg-boy. If it does happen, that definitely belongs on Anning's page.--
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1623:), it seems that of the three themes mentioned, only "Police investigation" belongs wholly on this page, while the "Censure" and "Removal of Senator" themes don't. HOWEVER, the
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maybe we should create a page for every single egging incident that is considered "important" and 'significant' at a given point in time? In my own country, the politicians
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1036:. Whenever there is a big event, there's a tendency for people who have not properly read those guidelines to invoke them in a deletionist way. Please cite the part of
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were involved in the incident, and the 17 year old may be considered as a participant by being a victim, where publishing his name may be a contravention of law.
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The Page subject is a trending meme, so the writing isn't all that good. This may become a significant Australian cultural moment though, but only time will tell
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are naming Will Connolly as 'eggboy', I don't see why a US domiciled organisation should be more zealous in its censorship than Australian news organisations.
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American websites are not bound to Australian law even if the Australian courts "address" them, regardless of whatever imperial notions those courts may have.—
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Sorry, it was unintentionally misleading of me to have not posted a longer excerpt which included the subsection immediately afterwards. It should have read:
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Looking at the more reliable and experienced of the current Australian sources in the article, neither ABC News nor The Guardian have identified the teenager.
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Police investigation yes, but the removal of Senator (which cannot happen) and the Censure (which will happen) are subjects for Anning's page, not this one.
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subsequent egging incident" is more explicit but even wordier. Less wordy (but much vaguer) would be something like "Fraser Anning controversies (2019)".
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because if I search "Egg Throwing Incident" I get results of many other incidents but this one. Assuming it is notable enough, it requires a better name.
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An order posted under this section must not contain any particulars likely to lead to the identification of the child who is a party to the proceeding.
1230:(courtesy of Kevin Rudd's nephew), but time will tell. I'm not adding any more to the page though given everyone is hell bent on deleting the content.
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an alleged offence was committed that matters, not the age at which charges are laid, but I could be wrong. I'm out of my depth here. I've posted at
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1801:, we are not speculating on his guilt or innocence we are simply referring to what the sources say. For these reasons I have undone your removal.
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The page has already been moved to a better title. Closing as it is also at AFD, so delete ¡votes should be placed there. And for the record, I
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No, this is entirely within the scope of Fraser's article, as any fallout from this will be about him. This never should have been created. --
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has been unclear on what would constitute a "better name"; if examples were given, more opinions may be swayed to rename the article. —DIV (
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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While I believe this article should just be one sentence on Anning's article (throwing eggs at controversial politicians is nothing new
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significant than a minor line in either the Christchurch Massacre or Anning's story - got its own mural in Melbourne as of this morning
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I don't mind you doing that, but I think it's unnecessary. He hasn't been charged yet, and he has been identified in many places.--
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COmpletely agree. This should be documented on the politician's page, as it has no sign of having long-term enduring coverage. --
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while I don't think this page should exist in the first place, there are a couple of issues with your edit. Firstly, the age of
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Hang on. Connolly is only famous for egging Anning. There's not much more we can say about Connolly. This page should be
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because the egg was not thrown, meaning that the proposed title would be inaccurate. The current title is much clearer.
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Calls for Anning to be removed as Senator, esp. Change.org petition (to PM) to "Remove Fraser Anning from parliament"
1451:, and would add this. If Anning is convicted of an assault (very likely), he could be imprisoned for up to 5 years:
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This incident is not known as "Egg Throwing Incident (2019)"... it is known as #Eggboy, and should be named as such.
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918:. Give it a couple of weeks. If this doesn't pick up coverage, we can totally merge this into another article.
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Anyway, I'll leave it up to individual editors in Australia to determine whether they want to take the risk.
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His name is in banner headlines in major press around the world. There cannot be a court order to undo that.
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Anning has been "instructed" by the government not to comment on the Christchurch attacks. (See above link.)
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Don't forget Anning was struck on the back of the head. He wouldn't necessarily know it was just an egg.--
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https://www.instagram.com/van_and_paint/p/BvH4nZ3nLgh/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=8cdvoo734n8c
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were egged during times of politically significant campaigns (as well as a similar incident happening to
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No--the burden should be exactly the opposite. If, after a couple of weeks, it gets sustained coverage,
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Police are reportedly investigating the two punches thrown by Anning at the boy following the egging.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Maybe we should find out if he becomes 18 years old soon, that would solve the issue entirely.
1117:. I don't understand why people think this important. Incidents like this occur all the time.--
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the importance fades with time, then it can be trimmed and merged. But for all we know it may
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should not mention the young man's name unless and until it has been mentioned in open court.
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so what is the justification in having a article dedicated to rather minor egging incident?
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What law? No one has identified a law that applies here. There are no court proceedings.--
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reaction comments in the article make it obvious that the incident is very important.
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I also support merging the contents of this article with Fraser Anning's main article.
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in importance! Just wait and see: leave it here until that becomes clearer. —DIV (
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I agree with DIV, I think it should be retained with a view to how it develops. -
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Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/Darryl.jensen/Archive § 07 July 2019
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I had to strike this out due to comment made in bad-faith. Also, it violates
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I don't understand why this page exists and would agree that it should be
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reasonable response in the circumstances as the person perceives them":
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in the hopes that we might get someone with legal expertise to help us.
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Partial URL: /p/the-prime-minister-remove-fraser-anning-from-parliament
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Analysis that states the House no longer has the power (currently) to
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was under the age of 18 years but of or above the age of 10 years'.
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A bipartisan (multipartisan) motion to censure Anning is expected.
829:. I don't know why there's a separate page for an egging incident.
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As of now, it has received ~715000 signatures (target of 1000000).
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Such orders are routinely made by Children's Courts in Australia.
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Knowledge (XXG) policy could be against such identification. See
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I agree. We can comply with court orders when they are made.--
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Children, Youth and Families Act 2005 (Victoria), section 3(1)
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suggested any particular title as some users mentioned below.
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also applies, as the press are doing their bullying routine
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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instead of here. I provided a link at the word AFD.
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1910:Should have referred to section 534. See below.
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1750:) 07:51, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
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573:Requested move 16 March 2019
1453:Crimes Act 1958 (Vic), s 31
1028:I suggest you re-read both
1017:13:10, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
430:Wikimedia Australia chapter
231:must be removed immediately
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870:Blatant recentism and NEWS
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548:project's importance scale
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853:Please do not modify it.
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351:Australia-related topics
2188:Australian news outlets
1789:criminal responsibility
1329:Article should include:
980:comment from confirmed
601:Withdrawn by nominator.
339:is within the scope of
1200:). Knowledge (XXG) is
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103:avoid personal attacks
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128:Neutral point of view
1708:Identity of teenager
1368:Police investigation
1099:Anning's commentary.
505:WikiProject Politics
133:No original research
914:Keep calm and read
694:. The name can be
1334:Removal of Senator
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261:content assessment
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2126:Section 534
2079:including:
1981:the offence
1869:Jack Upland
1829:section 523
1768:Jack Upland
1736:Jack Upland
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1471:Jack Upland
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1431:Jack Upland
1165:Jack Upland
1119:Jack Upland
861:move review
592:move review
176:free images
59:not a forum
2359:Categories
1901:WP:BLPNAME
1350:a Senator
1294:Boscaswell
1278:Boscaswell
1202:WP:NOTNEWS
1038:WP:NOTNEWS
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1004:Newslinger
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783:Quiz shows
218:While the
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2085:Channel 9
857:talk page
814:Surtsicna
752:Anarchyte
746:Surtsicna
679:Netoholic
360:Australia
347:Australia
286:Australia
116:if needed
99:Be polite
55:redirect.
49:talk page
2311:WP:LIBEL
2301:contribs
2289:unsigned
2284:charged.
2130:Meticulo
2093:Meticulo
2042:Meticulo
1993:Meticulo
1987:and the
1953:Meticulo
1912:Meticulo
1848:Meticulo
1833:Meticulo
1783:Meticulo
1754:Meticulo
1744:Meticulo
1719:Meticulo
1671:unsigned
1151:SunnyBoi
1051:unsigned
916:WP:DELAY
859:or in a
810:Disagree
791:Disagree
724:Disagree
696:retained
692:Disagree
519:Politics
510:politics
466:Politics
257:redirect
84:get help
57:This is
36:redirect
28:deletion
2329:Support
2253:chbarts
2169:chbarts
2151:Wikiain
1584:Wikiain
1523:Wikiain
1519:The Age
1490:Wikiain
1457:Wikiain
1385:Censure
1314:Support
1133:deleted
1115:deleted
874:I cite
565:Comment
546:on the
409:at the
387:on the
182:WPÂ refs
170:scholar
2307:WP:NLT
2251:here.—
2221:umbolo
2192:Alssa1
1883:Kathoc
1855:Alssa1
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