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theory is of
Kshatriya Origin. Let me assert about my readings that even the Kayastha proper are mentioned as kshatriya in many source books. In Bengali literature the terms "Kshatriya" and "Kayastha" are nearly synonymous and the term "Kalita" means simply a non-Brahmin Aryan. However, let me admit that the Wiki is an international platform where I have observed that Indian identity and India related articles often become victim of racism and regionalism. In my view all humans are great and so all Indians and Assamese. I have no place in my heart to disregard any Indian Caste/Community. Unfortunately, much of the accounts of foreign authors do not do justice to Indians, may be due to their poor understanding of the complex Indian social structure. Hence, I request you to refrain from the accounts of intentional defame of India or Indians. Still, I am eagerly awaiting your views and suggestions with an assurance of acceptance of every genuine neutrality of the article. Regards.Mahensingha 22:50, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
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character could give many informations, such as the origin and evolution of the human civilization. The mythical character might not exist, but the community formed under the concept of that mythical common ancestor is truth. The mythical character plays important role in determining the culture, religion and many other facts of that community. So, this should be given the historical importance. Please read the following: 1)Traditional societies are often organised into descent groups called "lineages", "clans", and "tribes". Each of these descent groups claims to have a common ancestor, and this ancestry distinguishes the group's members from rest of the population. 2) Thus, a tribe might be a conglomerate of clans who subsequently invented a mythical ancestor to strengthen group unity.
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and that the
Kalitas, a caste-Hindu community of Assam are Alpines by origin." 3."According to B K Kakati, the Kalitas were originally a class or phaid and not a professional caste." 4. "It is believed by some that once the Kalitas of Assam were the followers of this religion and there are others who opine that the Baniyas and the Kaivartas, two scheduled caste people of present Assam , were also originally Buddhists". 5. "The traditional account of their origin-that they were Kshatriyas who concealed their caste for fear of Parasuram-has been rejected by some scholars of Assam."
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aggressive. At least, I am here to learn a lot by exploring various books and sources alike. There are very limited books on Assam
History and the one I found meaningful, Thats why I wrote in Summary. As we know we cant write contents of the whole book/books on to a single wiki article. we are bound to write the article related extracts only and definitely cant go in details exactly as narrated in the book. Whatever, I contributed to the article, is simply the view of the author of the Book and its not
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articles on caste do not generally have these sections. Like in this article, it does not make any sense if we discuss about the
Assamese language and culture; if there is something really unique to the caste (like we generally have for tribes), then it makes sense. Otherwise, these sections have no relevance and should be dropped. Rather, the contentious part is Origin and related sections in any article on caste, and we need to ensure neutrality, as well as relevance. Thanks.
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that during this period Egypt was losing some of its power and dominance." Quite often this construction is used to introduce a CONFLICTING IDEA that actually contradicts the generally held belief or conviction. After your sentence, ONE COULD WRITE something like: "However, the results of our new research show that Egypt may have been shifting its focus into a different geographical area, and thereby effectively expanding its power."
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facts. Also, the author might be from Japan and having no field knowledge of Great
Pragjyotisa-Kamarupa. But, sir, I'm from the land of Great Pragjyotisa-Kamarupa. Also, sir, only one author cannot be considered as the knower of true history. Hope Knowledge will respect the true history, and not just a person's view. Only one book or article can't describe the Greatness of Pragjyotisa-Kamarupa. Regards.
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aborigines of Assam. According to him
Narakasura, Bhagadatta, Bajradatta etc. , the ancient kings of Pragjyotisa were forefathers of the Kalitas(Reference 15). The scholars like Dr Dimbeswar Sarma(Reference 16), Dr Pratap Chandra Choudhury(Reference 17) and many others also supported the view of Raibahadur Padmanath Gohain Borooah that the Kalitas are the descendants of Naraka-Bhagadatta.
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256:'Kaltas were originally Kayasthas' is an assumption only which is never proved to the level of reliability. However, there is another caste in assam with the name of 'Kayasth' or simply 'Kayth'. Please refer "The Peoples of Assam" By Bhuban Mohan Das, on page 35, last para. Hence, it needs a mention, in order to avoid confusion. --Mahensingha 11:42, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
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617:"Giving due weight and avoiding giving undue weight mean that articles should not give minority views or aspects as much of or as detailed a description as more widely held views or widely supported aspects. Generally, the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all, except perhaps in a "see also" to an article about those specific views."
309:; therefore please be specific and provide relevant page numbers. For example if you cite a source thrice, each citation may refer to a different page no, say one refers to page 35, second refers to pages 101-102, and third may refer to pages 120,290 etc. Also, the references you have provided are incomplete (not as per format), and showing
332:. Still if you find anything objectionable, lets discuss. I will be very happy, if you share your precious knowledge with me. I will be ever grateful to you to make the Assam Related Articles more and more meaningful in order to give them due exposer. Thanx. --Mahensingha 21:12, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
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Aryan word was used by scientist and the Nazi army to show superior of the population of Europe and western Asia on some irrevelent facts during the 20th century which ruled out to be false. The scientific community at present has replaced the word with "indo-european" and the word "Aryan" is used to
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I do agree with you, these sections be dropped. If we find any Kalita caste specific social norm or cultural aspect in any reliable source, we may yet give it a place. Now regarding origin, the article mentions all the theories, even in the lead section itself ,but the sources suggest the most common
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You cannot say, "Please go through the whole contents of the Source Book before making any further edit" in the edit summary, it hardly makes sense. If you are adding content to the article, it is your responsibility to add proper citation i.e. you need to specify exact page numbers. If you think you
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community in Assam is well-known. There should not be any concern on your part regarding confusion between the two because of the following reasons. Here, all the theories concerning the origin of the
Kalitas must be presented from a neutral point of view without giving undue stress on any particular
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1. "Some scholars ascribe them Alpine origin, whereas, some others conjecture that they are of Arya stock." 2. "According to some
Assamese scholars a wave of Alpines also came to Assam before the Aryans and they hold that Narakasur and Bhagadatta, the prehistoric rulers of ancient Assam are Alpines
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Respected sir, Mythical common ancestor invented by a human group is of great importance to study the evolution of mankind. During the process of formation of a human society in ancient time, a group of people considered themselves as the descendants of a common mythical ancestor. Also, the mythical
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Since the source clearly states 'Aryan', the article mentions it as it is. As far as sourced statements are concerned, it is not advisable to change the term mentioned in the source. Anyway, here it actually implies Indo-Aryan only, and I have modified the link to Indo-Aryan people now. I hope this
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Answer: It means that among the people who claim to know something about the subject, the most widely accepted theory is that which is "generally held". Example: "It is generally held that already during this period Egypt was losing some of its power and dominance." Means: "Most
Egyptologists agree
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Respected sir, It's a childish way to think
Pragjyotisa and Kamarupa as different kingdoms. The ancient inscriptions confirm that both the words Pragjyotisa and Kamarupa represent the same kingdom, like Hindustan and Bharata. I think the author is just trying to be famous by disrespecting the true
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and may be many more who talk about Kalitas to be high caste Hindu and next to Brahmins. In few cases the sources include few more castes and definitely not only Kayastha as equivalents to Kalita. My point here was that since the article is about Kalita caste so it shall stress the kalita as major
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Language and culture of a particular caste generally depend on the regional language and culture only; these are not caste specific, rather these are region specific. Religious practices hardly vary among upper castes, and again depend on the geographic location or are region specific. Therefore,
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Thanks. I implemented all your suggestions regarding referencing the contents. The article looks better after your efforts on genuinely sourced edits. Much of the contents are still to be worked upon. I request your attentions towards Language, culture etc. Regards.--Mahensingha 09:21, 24 October
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Reasons: (1) Already in the suggested sentence . (2) No "reference" to the event is found in the book written by S L Baruah. (3) Inclusion of suggested correction is valid according to research methodology as discussed previously in the context- What is the meaning of "It is generally held that"
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I really appreciate your gesture, as well as your efforts. I would be glad to share knowledge/information with you, and hope we can improve the content of this article. When I edit any article, I keep the Edit Summary meaningful and mention the reasons clearly; similarly whenever I 'll edit this
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Its Ok. I understood. Just dont misunderstand that if I have written anything in the Edit Summary, then it was for any individual or for you. Still I am very sorry, if it hurts any one. I or we are here to contribute to the articles on wikipedia and definitely not to develop differences or turn
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But this seems to be a wrongly interpreted conclusion because there is no historical record about the migration of Kalitas during the reign of King Dharmmapala(1070AD-1100AD) of Kamarupa. In the history book "Asamar Buranji", Raibahadur Padmanath Gohain Barua mentioned that the Kalitas are the
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Almost the entire article is unsourced puffery. Such statements having no valid reference will be removed, unless valid sources are provided. Please stop adding more such content; this does not make any sense. IP contributors and editor(s) specifically editing this article are advised to check
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I'm not expert in editing in wikipedia and have little knowledge about internet. But I am worried about the false information given by any author. I always look in to the three most important things- time, place and event, whenever I do study history. So, according to me the above information
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This article consider the Kalita as well as other human groups of Assam mostly from a racial point of view. It assumes that Kalitas have been a distinctive group since ever and that their culture is rooted in their racial features. This type of approaches have been discarded since long in
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PerfectingNEI(talk) is trying to divert the topic. I think it's having some problems to respect the concept of mythological common ancestor of human group. Hope Knowledge will take necessary steps for asking PerfecingNEI(talk) to understand the concept first. Please. Regards.
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anthropology. The author should take more into account the possibility that the composition of human groups is physically and culturally renewed by external contribution, and this happens continuously. The cephalic index does not have any relation to culture.
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17. The History of Civilization of the People of Assam to the Twelfth Century A.D. by Dr Pratap Chandra Choudhury, Published by The Government of Assam in the Department of Historical and Antiquarian Studies, Gauhati, Assam, First Edition, 1959, p 122.
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The current list on this article includes large numbers of names who do not appear to meet the general notability requirements, whist none have a reference specifically stating that they a Kalita. Names without adequate references will be removed. -
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I find nothing specific to Kalitas in terms of Language, religion or culture as are common to all assamese Hindu people. Please help sourcing the contents or addind the reliably sourced contents. Thanx.--Mahensingha 09:26, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
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What type of suggestion was mentioned for correction: "But this seems to be a wrongly interpreted conclusion because there is no historical record about the migration of Kalitas during the reign of King Dharmmapala(1070AD-1100AD) of Kamarupa."
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language of North india. As Kalita community were from North India and spoke Indo-Aryan languages before entering Assam, they should be called Indo-Aryan people or speakers of Indo-Aryan language and NOT ARYAN as it is linked to Nazi Germany.
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Most interesting part is you are changing your ancestors words. Anyway , Do research yourself. Why do you believe someone's saying ? Prove or disprove all claims.Your books are just artificial guess work. Anybody can write such books .
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I really appreciate your gesture. In fact, I should have started the talk page discussion. I hardly have any time right now, I 'll revert back tomorrow and we will definitely arrive at some sort of consensus on the issue. Best Regards,
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According to source Kalita (caste) is derived from many groups i.e Tibeto-Burman, Indo-Aryan artisan caste, even Dravidian speaking group which may be the Sut community. Go through the source and apply the links necessary!
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theory. And, moreover, the sentence which has been quoted from the source, in the lead section, clearly mentions that the Kalitas, according to that theory, were originally Kayathas and later on formed a
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that why have you reverted my edit , giving your own judgement "Cannot be considered as WP:UNDUE". You could have discussed the matter. But, let me explain on my part that why did I make this edit-
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I was just mentioning the true spelling of a word used by those Pragjyotisa Kings. Could you please tell me since whence the Great Kings of Tripura started to use the title "Debbarma"? Regards.
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Truth:In the inscriptions the name was inscribed as "Bhaskaravarmma",i.e., "भास्करवर्म्मा". The names of all the other kings of the dynasty of पुष्यवर्म्मा contained "वर्म्मा" as suffix title.
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WRONG INFORMATION in Knowledge about Kalitas: "According to historians like S.L.Baruah, Kalitas started migrating from North and East India to Assam during the 11th century rule of Dharmapal."
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It's BhaskarVarman. There is no mention that he is related to Kalita . How is it related to Kalita ? Do research about Maniram Dewan . Just find out when did his ancestors come to Assam ?
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article, I 'll do the same. In case you have any doubt regarding any of my future edit, we can discuss in details here on the talk page; a constructive discussion is most welcome. Thanks.
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Again, respected sir, do you know that following fact is based on an obscure mythology that was impossible to happen in the land of Pragjyotisa(Present Assam) during 11th Century AD.
509:, have clearly stated they do not agree with caste or ethnic categorization, as these are divisive. These people should not be included in any such list even after their death.
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In a caste, ethnicity, race or religion list, there also needs to be a clear, specific, reference to show that the person is a member of that caste, ethnicity, race or religion.
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caste altogether; therefore there is no scope for confusion. All the theories are assumption to some extent, we can state the theories without distortion; there is no scope for
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As it was an epic in Hindu influenced region, there are different versions. There are Malayasian and Indonesian versions too. And probably Central Asian version as well. -
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15. Asamar Buranji by Padmanath Gohain Barua, 4th Edition, Publication Board Assam, 2014, p 4 (Note: First Published-1899 and First Edition, Publication Board Assam-1976).
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Before I mention about the manipulation of wonderful history of Kalitas by some Knowledge editors, let's discuss the meaning of phrase- "It is generally held that".
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Please read A Statistical Account of Assam Vol 1 and Vol 2. Asura are mythology character. Be scientific not mythical @ 2017 wikitext editor, PHP7 Mobile edit .
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2. If you add Kayastha then according to one of the above sources lot many castes too qualify to be added with Kalita and Kayastha next to Brahmin in hierarchy.
534:]. Also note that the linked articles do not even mention the word Kalita. Please adhere to the consensus and do not add any link to biographies as this Article
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I deleted a paragraph on common surnames, and a few other observations. The entire paragraph is unsourced, and I can find no sources to support the statements
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Discovery of North-East India: Geography, History, Cutlure, Religion, Politics, Sociology, Science, Education and Economy. Arunachal Pradesh (NEFA). Volume two
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Mahabharata is a Sanskrit epic not South-Indian. Stories in it are from all over the subcontinent. But the core region was in Delhi-Uttar Pradesh region. -
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Original Content in S L Baruah's book: "It is generally held that the Kalitas came to Assam from upper India during the reign of Dharmapal(c.1095-1120)."
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https://www.academia.edu/22297465/Searching_for_K%C4%81mar%C5%ABpa_Historiography_of_the_Early_Brahmaputra_Valley_in_the_Colonial_and_Post-Colonial_period
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I referred sourced stating the Kalita caste to be high caste Hindu or the the caste next to Brahmins in caste hierarchy except the one which you added.
1278:"Maharajadhiraja Sri Pusyavarma, over-lord of Pragjyotisa, a descendant of the lineage of Bhagadatta and Vajradatta born from Naraka,.....". Regards.
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But why Knowledge has given place to this false fact in the topic, surprisingly, at the introductory paragraph? It's very much unscientific! Regards.
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I neither believe Mahabharat nor Parasuram. What we believe may or mayn't be real. But , Person who believe is reality . That's the difference
1067:"According to historians like S.L.Barua, Kalitas started migrating from North and East India to Assam during the 11th century rule of Dharmapal."
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16. Kamarupa Sasanavali by Dr Dimbeswar Sarma(Ed), Publication Board, Assam, 2nd Edition,2003, p140,141,142,143 (Note: First Published-1981).
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1. Since the article is about Kalita, so be subjective and mention only Kalita. for your POV you can add Kayastha in "See also" and let the
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Secondly, you were disregarding the reality of Mahabharata, and now you are supporting the myth of Parashurama!What's the reason?
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Pragjyotishpur is different from Kamarupa. Kamarupa king just accepted that mythology. You should read recent research papers.
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Someone stating, or claiming, that someone else is, or is not, a member of a Caste, ethnicity, race or religion, is insufficient.
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to show that they are a notable enough to be included on the list, which usually requires an article on the English Knowledge.
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Verma and Varman same meaning. Just like Borok King of Tripura used Debbarma . I'm wasting time on unnecessary topic. Bye
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Other important information about Kalitas in S L Baruah's book that have been KEPT OUT OF SIGHT by the Knowledge editor:
1710:, I wasn't active on Knowledge for the last couple of days. It seems that the issue has now been addressed. Thanks, all!
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King Bhaskaravarma(594AD-650AD) of Pragjyotisa mentioned his ancestry in his Dubi Copper Plate SEAL as(a part only)-
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3. Restore my edit and since all the castes have their own article and the relevant contents be added there only
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There is a long-standing consensus that we do not categorise biographical articles by caste. For example, see
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Added now. Also, this is a very badly written article that seems to have a particular political narrative.
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sufficient evidence for their inclusion in, or exclusion from, a list, as assumptions based on a name are
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Caste, ethnicity, race and religion lists cause lots of arguments in Knowledge, please follow the general
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First please tell me where from Maniram Dewan's ancestor come to Assam? I will answer after your answer.
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https://www.academia.edu/38550206/Service_groups_in_early_K%C4%81mar%C5%ABpa_society_600_C.E_to_1200_C.E
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So, it is NOT according to S L Baruah ! Also, she didn't mention any reference to this assumption.
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supplied by me are correct. So, please inform me the reasons for removing these contents. Regards
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https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/162792/whats-the-meaning-of-it-is-generally-held-that
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Sir, I would be obliged if you could inform me the reason behind removing the following content:
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Society, Politics, and Development in North East India: Essays in Memory of Dr. Basudeb Datta Ray
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Kalita ancestors claimed to be descendant of Kshatriya who fled wrath of Parasuram . Read it
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What is written in those books ? Are those just artificial guess work or proved content ?
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3. All India Anthropometric Survey, North Zone: Basic Anthropometric Data, Volume 1; Volume 8
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Ok , I've no idea about original story. I think south also have their own version.
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I have checked the references and reverted to your version. Thanks & Regards,
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Kalita is not a "caste" but an ethnic group similar to Ahoms or Sutiyas or Morans
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Is mahabharat real ? Can you prove ? That's just south Indian folk stories .
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can read an entire book, and summarize it or whatever, that would amount to
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Kalita is not next to Brahmins, it is next to Kayastha, Ganak and Brahman-
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5. Discovery of North-East India: Geography, History, Cutlure ..., Volume 2
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So, wikipedia editors should maintain the methodology of research works.
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Read statistical account of Assam. Kalita claims were also recorded.
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118:-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the
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Remove the "Caste" word from the title as Kalita is not a caste.
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4. Go for the opinion of other editors or third opinion. May be
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Question: What is the meaning of "It is generally held that"?
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article state that Kayastha are next to brahmins in hierarchy.
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Now we can resolve the issue using one of the following ways-
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4. International Journal of Anthropology, Volume 2, Issue 4
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in the related ethnic group parameter per the article? -
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https://archive.org/details/statisticalaccou01huntuoft
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state they are a member of the category is required.
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252:Kalitas as Kayastha Vs Kayastha Proper in Assam
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679:I leave everything on your choice. Thanks.--
675:with his great experience resolve the issue.
1650:Please improve it, i just added the source
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749:Ray, Asok Kumar; Chakraborty, Satyabrata.
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651:and rest all become minor automatically.
404:Language, Religion and Culture Suggestion
313:in red. Please rectify the same. Thanks.
1801:C-Class Assam articles of Mid-importance
1786:C-Class India articles of Mid-importance
1127:And all of his kamarupa related papers.
820:. Anthropological Survey of India. p. xx
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894:. Concept Publishing Company. p. 129.
755:. Concept Publishing Company. p. 142.
841:International Journal of Anthropology
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646:6. Agrarian System of Medieval Assam
467:All names added to a list must have
288:, the fact that there is a separate
108:This article is within the scope of
855:Sharma, Suresh Kant; Sharma, Usha.
844:. Editrice "Il sedicesimo". p. 329.
38:It is of interest to the following
224:Unreferenced and unsourced puffery
196:This article was last assessed in
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1472:Wrong information about Kalitas:
1404:Your words: "It's BhaskarVarman"
891:Agrarian System of Medieval Assam
584:addresses your concerns. Thanks.
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634:2. Bamboo: The Wonderful Grass
150:This article has been rated as
861:. Mittal Publications. p. 93.
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1796:Mid-importance Assam articles
1781:Mid-importance India articles
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600:Whether the article is about
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578:18:00, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
523:16:43, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
172:This article is supported by
927:03:39, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
555:not to be used. Instead Use
495:biographies of living people
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367:09:08, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
323:19:36, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
280:11:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
785:Bamboo: The Wonderful Grass
130:Knowledge:WikiProject India
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1811:WikiProject India articles
1806:WikiProject Assam articles
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788:. APH Publishing. p. 184.
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681:MahenSingha
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1770:Categories
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1343:Regards.
737:References
557:Indo-Aryan
469:verifiable
198:March 2012
1688:Homogenie
1673:Homogenie
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951:July 2019
551:The word
528:Castecats
485:synthesis
463:consensus
1727:Ekdalian
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