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work. Sure, her
Playboy "brief history" should have coverage, but, an infobox related to her stint in Playboy is absolutely undue compared to her prominent work and life as a designer. Here is an example. If you Google: "Kelley Wearstler" designer - you get about 282,000 Google results. If you Google: "Kelley Wearstler" Playboy - you get about 27,500 hits. She paid off her student loans by being a centerfold, and used a pseudonym to do it. There is no need for the special infobox, at the least, she should have a standard BLP infobox.
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a nude model for
Playboy Models, Inc. You'll get over 690,000 hits to your quoted 282,000 for Kelley Wearstler" designer. My objections to this article, however, is it's an advertisement and fan page. By the way, as of 2/18/2014, none of her clothing was selling at any of the three Dallas Neiman Marcus stores I checked. That's Downtown, North Park and Prestonwood. After North Park said they weren't selling anything, I became curious and called the other two stores.
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appearance, ie her appearance in the magazine (and on it) was not discussed in other forums. Oh and i just created an article for her book, and used the limited edition cover, which features HER. so now we have a fair use image of her, as her book is notably reviewed by NYT among others. I dont think we can also use that image here for her book.
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in 2008 as per the article states. On an aesthetic note - I think it's nice, and important, to have a depiction of either
Wearstler and/or her design - as a designer, it's about the visual effect - and I figure it's better to have a now defunct magazine than another image to represent fair use in the
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I strongly disagree with Sarah
Stierch that Kelly Wearstler is "world famous" and certainly not world famous for fashion design. Concerning your statistics about googling her name, are you being disingenuous Sarah? Try googling Kelly Gallagher with Playboy, which is the name she used when working as
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Absolutely not. You don't get to unballance an article in a way that may be prejudicial to the subject, just because you like big ...boxes, and then say, "someone else should rebalance this". That is NOT how we handel BLPs. As I've said at the BLP noticeboard "That she was in playboy is notable, and
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as mentioned in the article 2) It shows what she looks like 3) She is sitting in a room she did the interior design for. :) As somene involved in the fine art industry and writes mainly arts articles for
Knowledge, I tend to get feel that the visual addition strengthens the content. I suppose I'll
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She's a world famous fashion and interior designer. I'm confused on how her fame as a fashion designer and an interior designer can quite possibly out weight the fact that she was
Playboy of the Month once. Her clothing is sold at Neiman Marcus and the New York Times and New Yorker has covered her
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and the spirit of "do no harm" encapsulated in the BLP policy. She's an interior designer. She doesn't highlight here past appearance and neither should we. Especially not on the nonsense that of infobox conformity. Anyway, how is her breast size in 1994 relevant to anything? Can you verify that's
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Not sure why you're being so negative about this! No reason to be! I stated above multiple times that it expresses who she is, the work she does and the magazine that is mentioned in the article. So no need for en-Wiki sarcasm :) If you feel that uncomfortable with the image on the article we can
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I won't comment this in terms of the unfree images policies/guidelines, which I find ridiculously inconsistent. But in this case I think the presence of an unfree image may actually decrease the chance of eventually getting a free one, while the absence of any image may motivate someone to upload
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concerns, the solution is to actually find well-sourced things to say about her career as an interior designer, not to keep the article as a perpetual 3-line stub. For all that everyone says that her
Playmate career is a minor component of her fame, when I search for material on her, that is what
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This is a judgment call in my view. Personally speaking, I found the image did significantly add to my understanding of who the BLP subject is (i.e. what she looks like, an indication of what her sense of style is, and what level of publicity she has had), so I am happy with NFCC8 at least. I've
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I removed this talk page from the category of non free magazine covers, as it obviously is not such a thing. I agree with Moonr, the Domino cover could not be used here (looked it up on google of course), as the magazine was not about her, only 1 article, and this was not a particularly notable
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seen magazine covers used in articles about living people, but these covers were themselves the subject of sourced commentary--for example, one that I saw was the first appearance of a black woman on the cover of that particular prominent magazine, and it was discussed as significant in other
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here size now - 17 years later? Is this an important part of understanding her? There's no justification for this. We don't define someone who has a notable career by their appearance in some magazine 17 years ago - and their breast size then. Horrible, sexist and unfair to the subject".--
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I suppose I am also confused by the large amount of magazines (including contemporary magazines from the past 15 years) that are here: . There is this though in the policy: "A magazine or book cover, to illustrate the article on the person whose photograph is on the cover.
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article. I actually wrote her design firm requesting an image to no avail (as discussed in the DYK nomination). If people really do oppose the use of this image, perhaps we can find a different contemporary image of
Wearstler or her work that we can decide on. Thank you!
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Sorry, but that just doesn't rise to the level of fair use, which is a pretty stringent standard. The magazine may be defunct, but somebody bought their intellectual property, and we can't violate their copyright just because we think the image is decorative.
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Similarly, a photo of a copyrighted statue (assuming there is no freedom of panorama in the country where the statue is) can only be used to discuss the statue itself, not the subject of it." Bold added by me. Hmm. Oh
Knowledge policy... Hmm!
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It's not unbalanced. That's what you seem to be having difficulty with: her career as a
Playmate is as or more notable than her career as an interior designer. She may wish it wasn't that way, you may wish it wasn't that way, but it is that
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If you define notability by what most people recognize you for, Kelly is still best known for her work as a Playboy model in print and videos under the name Kelly Gallagher. That might change in ten years but for now, that's the
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Perhaps I've been misunderstanding fair use and magazine covers then...I do use fair use in other articles dealing with art, including magazine covers, and I've yet to run into a problem. Thanks for your thoughts!
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publications that were cited. I'm afraid that NFC was written pretty strictly. There's no doubt that it's nice to have a depiction of Wearstler or her work, but we can't always get that within policy. :/ --
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problem: copyrighted images to illustrate the appearance of a living person are never allowed, because they are inherently replaceable. Somebody, someday, may take a free picture of her. That no one has
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Contextual significance: Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.
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Fred - I don't think we'll need one. I'm working on fleshing out the article. I generally try to avoid them, but, I think she's notable enough that we won't have to worry about one =)
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interesting theory: let's make the wiki worse so that others will improve it. this image is not "decorative", rather it illustrates the critical commentary that she is a decorator.
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being given to a minor part of her career, which is not the reason for her notability. Certainly infoboxes etc, based in passing appearances years ago, should be excluded.--
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1246:@George I actually contacted her interior design firm and they declined to supply a non-copyrighted picture. Thank you everyone for contributing to this conversation!
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However, if the cover itself is the subject of sourced discussion in the article, it may be appropriate if placed inline next to the commentary.
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did not agree with conclusion. While she may be notable as an interior designer, she is also notable as a Playmate. If you want to avoid
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Hi. :) I was asked to weigh in here, but first I want to clarify that this issue is less to do with copyright and more to do with
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I agree the use of the Playboy Playmate infobox is not appropriate here since she is more notable for her professional career.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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is rightly recorded in the article. However, glorifying it with a big box and breast measurements is clearly a breach of
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Whilst the fact that she was in playboy should perhaps not be excluded for this bio, care should be taken with
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I'm afraid I tend to agree with KWW's concern over fair use but not that the image fails to meet
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I suppose I have to continue to disagree with you both, as 1) it illustrates the cover of
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i understand what she looks like, and merits a conde nast cover.
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If the primary thing it explains to you is how Kelly Wearstler
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magazine cover from 2008 to the article. Kww removed it, under
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I think that was directed at Hegvald, not you, Sarah. Still,
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There's no undue weight here at all, and the discussion at
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Knowledge requested images of people of the United States
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has been called "the presiding grande dame of West Coast
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Start-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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Start-Class United States articles of Low-importance
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1264:one. Let's wait and see. --
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1130:165.189.32.4
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1088:Domino cover
1051:
1048:Did you know
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1037:Did you know
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959:SarahStierch
898:SarahStierch
830:undue weight
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88:Did you know
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77:A fact from
29:
1362:, that's a
1042:check views
673:Pornography
664:pornography
620:Pornography
568:Home Living
519:Home Living
194:Start-class
93:check views
1437:Categories
986:situation.
30:photograph
1364:WP:NFCC#1
1314:WP:NFCC#8
1222:WP:NFCC#1
1218:WP:NFCC#8
1180:WP:NFCC#8
1079:Knowledge
1032:Main Page
873:Scott Mac
834:Scott Mac
283:Biography
223:Biography
162:libellous
130:Knowledge
83:Main Page
1331:dropped
868:WP:UNDUE
848:WP:UNDUE
34:included
1266:Hegvald
1125:Comment
1034:in the
973:Kaldari
844:WP:BLPN
805:on the
778:Fashion
769:Fashion
725:Fashion
700:on the
595:on the
454:on the
85:in the
1400:WP:NFC
1396:WP:NFC
1240:Domino
1106:Domino
1094:Domino
420:Alerts
200:scale.
58:Upload
49:Flickr
1360:looks
881:way.—
1424:talk
1404:have
1402:. I
1377:talk
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1310:none
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915:Talk
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587:High
272:and
1373:Kww
1369:yet
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692:Low
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