1351:. When a single-purpose account adds seven kilobytes(!) of material to an article, they tend to choose to mention only things which will make their employer look good. They tend to leave out anything which might make them look bad. When they have doubled an article's size, I believe that the best way to restore the article to NPOV is generally to remove all (or almost all) of the text which they person added. Rewriting it still leaves the article unbalanced. True, the text removal could have been done manually. Anyone is welcome to do so manually, and like you said, it's a superior option. I simply don't want to spend so much time. I have too many other things to do outside of Knowledge.
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parts that they felt the inclination and the wherewithall of fixing. Pages like this one improve over time as people who have them on their watch lists are prompted to make an improvement when they see some activity, but the massive disruption puts it beyond that kind of help. There are a number of wikiquette essays that you would do well to read, though they don't necessarily cover this exact situation; most of them are pointed to from
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I completely agree with
CambridgeBayWeather's response above. Now that the revert has happened, it is so difficult to find what might have been the basis for good rewritten material, that I don't have the energy to try. If you had left it alone, it would have progressively improved as people patched
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the advert tag, with the edit summary "Less like an advertisement now", without rolling the article back. By the time I arrived, the article was up to eighteen kilobytes. Much of those eighteen kilobytes was still text contributed by Cath33. The quickest way to eliminate all of her words was to roll
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In my opinion you have made the article more like advertising than before, not less. You are misrepresenting the Herbie Fund as if it covers all "patients not covered by
Canadian health insurance", which is not true, it is a very specialized fund. The History section has been mutilated: some former
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one when a copyright violation caught my eye. I removed it, fixed a few referenes and add some links. I did not address the advert and I'm not going to as it's not something I want to do in an article that I know little about. So please stop with scolding. While the quickest way was rolling back to
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tagged the article, waited 13 minutes, then reverted it to a version from FIVE YEARS AGO! That user then selected which text they found worthy to add back to the article--thus making that user the de facto owner of the article. I propose the wholesale deletion by
Unforgettableid be reverted until
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in
October 2010. I thank you all for your past edits, and I ask of you one big favor for the future: Whenever you see a puffery-laced article about any corporation, organization, or musician, please figure out who caused the problem and please immediately revert back to the last PR-free revision. I
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Dominion of Canada is not the country's name any more, so that's a false argument. SickKids is jargony, and not formal (or enclopedic) in tone. Although the hospital has been promoting itself as that for about 3 years now, the name of the hospital is "The
Hospital for Sick Children". A qhick glance
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Most of your points are excellent, but I'm unconvinced that that the article would have ever gotten back to a corporatese-free state without a revert. A significant portion of Cath33's "contributions" had remained in place for half a decade until I finally reverted the article. If problem text has
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I rated the article "Start" class today for WP Canada and
Toronto. I also changed the rating for WP Medicine from B to C - I don't believe this is a B class article yet, I don't believe the article is complete enough for a "C" rating, but I can accept it because I briefly thought about it for the
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does not refer to the
Dominion of Canada at all, but only Canada, so this is the de facto legal name. But this is largely irrelevant here. On local news, the first instance of mention of the Hospital is always to the full name. They do often also use SickKids. The article clearly defines SickKids.
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allowed to roll the article back, even if you know little about the hospital. Advertising is advertising. With some detective work, anyone could have determined which user added the advertising. WikiBlame would probably have made it even easier. (When viewing an article, click "View history" then
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The SickKids name is not the official hospital name, although the
Hospital does use that frequently on its website and that is the name it is frequently referred to in Toronto. I am changing the article usage to Hospital for Sick Children since people from all over could be reading the article.
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to the current revision. Just beware: most of that revision's "History" section is PR material contributed by Cath33. I don't know whether she wrote it herself or copied it from elsewhere, but it was probably originally written by in order to try to make the hospital attract more donors and to
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Hospital for Sick
Children"; this Toronto-specific article uses a generic name for something specific. The inclusion of the definite article is not enough to distinguish this institution above any other similarly named hospital. The Toronto hospital is not well-known enough to count as a
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for yourself. Over the years, Chowbok, CambridgeBayWeather, and
Smithinopsis84 all noted in edit summaries and/or tags that the article looked at least somewhat like an advert, but nobody rolled the article back to the pre-Cath33 version. I don't know why. And, in fact,
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I've reinserted the 1984 Grange inquiry into the "history" timeline for 1980-81, the time of the various deaths. These are not proven to be murders but the events and subsequent inquiry are nonetheless a significant event in the history of the hospital.
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shows that only TGH uses the acronym exclusively within the body of the text. I'd like to discuss this more. However, I am going to revert your changes to restore the other edits to the article which have been removed, while keeping the SickKids bit.
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If you want to be pedantic, the official name is The Hospital for Sick Children (note the leading, capitalized "The", which is part of the name). SickKids is also officially used by the institution now, although previously it was simply jargon.
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2010 it was also the worst way to fix the problem. In articles like this the correct way is to rewrite the material. The spammy look could have been fixed one section at a time. Oh yes, I do have Twinkle installed and have done for some time.
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I took out the section. This article isn't about genetics, its about the Hospital for Sick Children. It would be nice to have some more material about recent research activities, but this section is a rather bad paraphrase of a Reuter's
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I strive to not scold fellow Wikipedians. If I have ever done so, it was probably a misjudgement on my part; historically, I haven't always done so well at speaking politely. Which of my words came across as scolding?
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move as proposed. There are several hospitals containing "Hospital for Sick Children" within their title and so this article name, which is very generic, should direct to the dab page and be geographically clarified.
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I haven't checked, but I bet the apparent copyvio was probably added by the same user who made the whole article read like a news release. She probably just copied text wholesale from her employer's website.
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This article looks like an advertisement because any negative information is inexplicably absent. I've put the 1984 Grange Inquiry back into the history, no idea why it was removed to leave a ten-year gap.
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You didn't have to address the advert. No Wikipedian is ever obligated to do anything. It would have been good if someone would have rolled the article back sooner (or at least added an
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The Maclean's article is interesting reading. Is it legally necessary only to say that criminal charges didn't stick, rather than that the single-use medications were later implicated?
1454:- a revert would assure that all the deleted data was re-included. Unfortunately, editors have already been rebuilding the damage, and it would be a shame to delete their hard work.
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The article as it stands is well written, but there's a fair amount of puffery. "critical mass of scientists and entrepreneurs"? -not unless they're about to undergo nuclear fission.-
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Enough. This is Knowledge and people do whatever they want to. As I suspected most of my edits were to do with there being a heliport here. The only edi of any substance I made was
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Why is there absolutely not mention of the baby deaths and the controversy surrounding Susan Nelles? The incident was a huge, if distasteful, part of the history of SickKids
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of humans, monkeys, rats and many other very distantly related living organisms are all absolutely identical. What the well intentioned editors wanted to mean instead of
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in 2011, and noted in the edit summary, "Still looks like an advert". If only you'd rolled back the article to the PR-free version back then! :) P.S. If you install the
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Before you flit off, please remove the libellous allegations above about someone who you know nothing about, or I'll ask an administrator to do it.
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The article looked like an advertisement because it was only eight kilobytes long before User:Cath33 added six more kilobytes of PR-style puffery
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
1431:. I consider user:Cath33 to be a minor player in the puffery on this page, which is most recently attributable to User:Unforgettableid.
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as per above - There's hundreds of hospitals named "The Hospital for Sick Children" - No evidence to say this well known over others. –
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editor Cath33 expanded the article from seven kilobytes of good content to fifteen kilobytes of PR-filled content. Please see the
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Knowledge standard is to use the common name, not necessarily the official name. Otherwise we'd use Dominion of Canada, not just
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Legally, if you read the Constitution, it's still Dominion of Canada, but common usage has changed to just "Canada." See also
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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refers to the naming of articles, not usage within the article. (Should we move the page to SickKids? Of course not.) And
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attract more patients from other provinces and countries. In fact, much of it is even comprised of
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The article was created eleven years ago. Unfortunately, five years ago, in the fall of 2010, the
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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was targeted here too, so I've moved the DAB to that page and updated redirects accordingly.
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calling themselves as "Western University" when they haven't actually changed their name.
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Not distinctive enough. Toronto's not the first hospital I think of when I hear that name.
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Not sure why the Funding section was placed before the History section. Can it be moved?
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While I prefer the full name within the article, it's not critical to the article.
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claims. It's probably better we shouldn't restore any of Cath33's "contributions".
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This isn't on my watchlist and I suspect my only edit was to add an airport code.
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on 20:37, 16 July 2010. It is relevant to the article. The article is here ==: -->
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I hope that everyone will help out by restoring additional worthy text from the
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remained for five years, perhaps that's a hint that it might remain
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In its present form this article makes a very bad usage of the term
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Certainly, but there isn't sufficient content to split it off yet.
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unless someone does what's necessary in order to rectify things. —
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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Rewriting material would have removed the article's spammy
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What in this article makes it look like an advertisement?
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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arrest and exoneration warrants a separate article.
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Reuters, One man's genes show DNA is still a mystery
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1503:. I've made a few swaps - page move as discussed -
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1327:tag around the time of your edit), but nobody was
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867:—Preceding
580:Jphillips23
558:—Preceding
330:Start‑class
148:free images
31:not a forum
1947:Categories
1839:Necrothesp
1819:Relisting.
1754:Withdrawn.
1291:Sunasuttuq
1069:Sunasuttuq
1026:Mindmatrix
895:Assessment
647:Mindmatrix
1694:talk page
1358:Cheers, —
1329:obligated
1246:Cheers, —
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1041:Cheers, —
848:Sophos II
749:Flyguy649
740:WP:NC(CN)
738:Actually
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265:Hospitals
256:Hospitals
228:Hospitals
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1788:SickKids
1713:Jimj wpg
1696:or in a
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717:contribs
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526:Kayrox63
56:get help
29:This is
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1878:ASUKITE
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1793:Natural
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1631:exactly
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1924:(alk)
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