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Talk:Henry Lidgbird Ball

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820: 2048:"In October 1787, Ball was placed in command of the armed tender HMS Supply as part of the naval escort for the ships of the First Fleet, which was a fleet of ships that transported convicts to start the first European colony in Australia. Supply's armament was increased in 1786 from its original four small 3-pounder cannons and six 1ā„2-pounder swivel guns to include four additional twelve-pounder carronades. The crew was also increased to a total of 55. Additionally, a detachment of 16 marines from the New South Wales Marine Corps, under the command of Lieutenant William Dawes, was embarked. Supply as part of the First Fleet had orders to create a penal colony in Botany Bay, New South Wales." I don't see mention of the October 1787 date in Parsons, or the description of the First Fleet's purpose, or 618: 866: 723: 634: 21: 602: 737: 667: 696: 291: 267: 586: 471: 747: 844: 2055:"On 14 February Ball on Supply sailed with Lieutenant Philip Gidley King, who was to establish a subordinate settlement on Norfolk Island. Ball discovered navigational and physical difficulties in approaching the island ā€“ challenges which were to affect future settlement there ā€“ but he managed to bring both people and supplies ashore by 6 March." Again most of this is not in Parsons. 716: 236: 543: 532: 521: 510: 499: 650: 1652: 353: 429: 885: 385: 964:). Also, I've always assumed that Balls Head (which actually is in Sydney Harbour) is so called owing to its (ahem) configuration. Or has ADB confused Balls Point with Balls Head? But that would mean that Balls Head, an important promontory, was named after a mere lieutenant, whereas Balls Point is not particularly significant. 301: 1833:
have been acted on, but am not totally sure having not had this article watchlisted. A brief skim through brings up uncited sentences beginning "With Rowley appointed in April 1807..." and "Neither marriage...", and there might still be some optimistic use of Winfield, e.g. ref. #29 shouldn't be able
1158:
The Dunmore source cites the entirety of the article. References need to be given individual page numbers (I wanted to check whether the source provided more details for Ball's early service, e.g. the dates involved, but the lack of citations means I can't check without reading the entire article,
1015:
A question: In the final paragraph in the Colonial Service Section, it says Ball was ordered "...bring Hunter and the crew of the Sirius back from Norfolk Island." Back to where? Sidney? Thanks. Also same section. Do we know what Ball's illness was? Was he cured? He obviously went back on active
1979:
P-C's comment was 'Ships when first introduced should be preceded by their type, e.g. "the 36-gun frigate HMS Venus" or "the frigate HMS Venus".' This has not been done throughout. I wouldn't have thought it universally necessary but perhaps Pickersgill-Cunliffe can comment on that?
2283:". This was seemingly achieved in a journey that he made that involved travelling to Batavia for supplies in 1790. This is 11 years before Matthew Finders circumnavigated the continent. Unfortunately there is no more detail provided of that "achievement". Any thoughts? 926:
The wording is a little iffy and the citation in the main text for this part doesn't actually say anything about his retirement, being that the citation is for a compilation of ship histories. What one assumes, and would actually make sense here, is that Ball went on
979:
After further thought, I've preferred Balls Head, supposing that the ADB has simply mistaken Point for Head. And it seems obvious that Balls Head Bay is so named since it is beside Balls Head. That Ball was a lieutenant does not seem to be a problem, since
959:
I've changed Balls Head Bay to Balls Point. It looked wrong because, if Balls Head Bay was named after him, that would have to be because Balls Head was. ADB says Balls Point, although wrongly locating it in Sydney Harbour (it's across Fishermans Bay from
1983:
I won't die on my hill for the inclusion, but it is generally expected that upon first mention a ship is at least vaguely described. With the Royal Navy operating so many warships of different types and sizes, "HMS" alone doesn't tell us much.
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Yeah he was to bring them back to Sydney, as they lost there ship, they were getting sent back to England for a court martial. No itā€™s never stated what the illness is, but it was common for Europeans to get fever in Batavia.
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Happy to check the Winfield, Bonner-Smith, and Naval Chronicle, assuming those are the ones you're least likely to have access to. When quoting I'll emphasise in bold any parts not found in the source.
2029:'Make sure you're noting why Ball's changes in command take place, e.g. he leaves Christian VII because the ship gets turned into a lazarette, per Winfield' -- not addressed, at least not in this case 819: 1761:
Images are appropriately tagged; sources are reliable. I'm not a subject matter expert but referring to the very useful previous GA review everything seems to have been addressed that was listed.
2153:"In April 1812 Ball became flag captain to Rear-Admiral Philip Charles Durham in the 80-gun HMS Christian VII off Texel, until December 1813, with Christian VII being removed from active service. 2062:
Can you check the other uses of Parsons and let me know when all the citations are fixed? Pickersgill-Cunliffe, if you're able to check any of the other sources that would be very helpful. --
1110: 2058:"In January 1808 it was noted that Ball applied for the governorship of New South Wales, but the request was turned down as no change in governor was intended at that point." Verified. 2422: 834: 2032:'there might still be some optimistic use of Winfield, e.g. ref. #29 shouldn't be able to provide the initial returning to Britain detail' -- I can't tell if this has been addressed. 2382: 988:. As to the (er) configuration matter, perhaps the name was originally written "Ball's Head" and pronounced with a chuckle. Sydney place name policy today is to omit apostrophes. 910:
The piece of the lead section discussion his promotion and retirement is confusing - was he promoted in title after his retirement, or is his retirement or promotion date wrong?
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Just been reading 1788 by Watkin Tench (Edited by Tim Flannery). Tench was a Captain of Marines who arrived on the First Fleet in 1788. The book contains the sentence "
2417: 2342: 2017:'"In March 1797" There's quite a skip in time here, suggest explaining the gap if possible' -- not addressed but perhaps this is because the sources don't cover it. 1690: 2387: 2332: 2000:
Choose how ships will be named and stick with it. E.g. will it be "Supply" or "the Supply"? -- this is still not consistent throughout; e.g. "On 5 March 1790 the
2362: 470: 2023:'make sure to note when he's leaving his commands as well as when he's joining them' -- I don't see any issues here but this might be one for more expert eyes. 1680: 2402: 1091: 89: 2412: 2357: 2352: 810: 800: 124: 1519:"Early April 1809, Ball as commander of HMS Gibraltar, joins the fleet" Needs rewording, this reads like a timeline and is a little janky on top of that 2298:
Technically lots of people circumnavigated Australia, including Tasman and Cook, the difference is that Flinders followed and mapped the coastlines.
2397: 1662: 593: 395: 362: 277: 2432: 2347: 2026:'"captured four Prussian vessels" Assume they weren't still in the Nore when this happened, but the location is not made obvious' -- not addressed 1625:
The naming of Ball's Pyramid and Mount Lidgbird having already been included in the article; the other places named here might work better in the
1090:
I am leaving some comments on the article here. I would note that I am not the best copy editor, and suggest that this article is run through the
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I said above that the images were appropriately tagged, but looking through Pickersgill-Cunliffe's comments I see they correctly point out that
2165:"On 23 April 1778 Ball was commissioned a lieutenant." My (updated) Bonner-Smith has the date as 23 August. The rest of the citations check out 436: 390: 2322: 445: 130: 2264: 2241: 2213: 2075: 1939: 1903: 1864: 1816: 1789: 1752: 323: 2407: 2327: 2260: 2237: 2209: 2071: 1935: 1899: 1860: 1812: 1785: 1748: 1729: 722: 1249:"On 6 May 1788" No need to repeat a year if you're already introduced it, the month and day will do until a new year comes around again 327: 52: 1122:
The references are a strange combination of SFN and in-text forms, making for confusing reading. Really only one type should be used.
2095:
he returned to duty in December 1793 and was assigned command of the sloop HMS Fury, joining Rear-Admiral John MacBride's squadron
1237:
You can start calling Rio de Janeiro "Rio" after the first instance, but don't then go back to fully naming it Rio de Janeiro again
318:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to 1772:
The previous GA reviewer said "this is not an exhaustive list"; were you able to find additional material beyond what they listed?
213: 2116:"With the Peace of Amiens, 25 March 1802, Ball returned to Britain" This makes the assumption that Ball was still in command of 180: 2127:
1805, Ball was appointed flag captain to Rear-Admiral Bartholomew Rowley in the 64-gun third rate ship of the line HMS Zealand
2020:'"its pursuer" Ships are generally thought of as female, e.g. she and her' -- still an issue; e.g. "its original", "its prize". 1685: 1516:"captured four Prussian vessels" Assume they weren't still in the Nore when this happened, but the location is not made obvious 1366:
I won't keep repeating these points, but don't capitalise ranks not in use as titles, and make sure to introduce types of ships
776: 763: 701: 314: 272: 144: 75: 38: 32: 1194:"Supply's armament had been increased..." this is all good, but we don't know what the original armament was to compare it to! 2200:
That's plenty; thank you very much. Once Knightmare 3112 has fixed these I might ask you to take another look if that's OK.
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to provide the initial returning to Britain detail. Looks to be quite a few ship names that could do with red links too.
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Spotchecks -- there's not much I can check as I don't have most of the sources, but I can check a few uses of Parsons:
1965:: I have a question or two about your comments below -- I hope you don't mind a ping, as I'm not expert in this topic. 939:
in the following year anyway. Note that none of this is my work, I've just made a lot of comments about it previously!
1188:
Don't continually call Ball by his rank, e.g. "Lieutenant Ball"; his surname is enough, you've told us what rank he is
110: 1240:"Ball learned the navigational and physical difficulties" I don't think "learned" is the word you're looking for here 174: 1973: 1541: 1149: 1162:
Ranks when not being using in conjunction with a name, e.g. "commissioned a Lieutenant", should not be capitalised
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Ensure you write numbers in the same way throughout the article; don't switch between "five" and "5" for example
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The lede claims that he spent his retirement in Surrey, but this doesn't seem to be mentioned in the main text.
1373:"Transferred to HMS Flora" this sentence and the next are very stilted and does not flow well in the narrative. 1191:"the ships of the First Fleet" it would be useful to have a better explanation of what the First Fleet was here 1065: 1021: 936: 617: 2256: 2233: 2205: 2067: 1931: 1895: 1856: 1808: 1781: 1744: 1723: 440:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a 154: 1125:
Every piece of "further reading" is actually cited in the text, and are thus references in their own rights
220: 1704: 1528:"Gambier's fleet then tried to capture or destroy..." This needs to be more precisely related to Ball and 1231: 1538:"Admiral Lord Gambier" No need to repeat his titles, "Gambier" is fine; same with "Captain Lord Cochrane" 1094:
as well. This is just a brief read-through of the article, and I do not claim to have found all issues.
913: 253: 1422:"involved in the capture of six vessels" some more precise dates would be useful - were they all with 2299: 2225: 1913: 1887: 1874: 1848: 1085: 1055: 1040: 1010: 865: 235: 2014:'"where they captured Arabanoo" a little more context on the man would be helpful' -- not addressed 1061: 1033: 1017: 206: 100: 69: 1544:
should have already been linked when it was first described, rather than here at the court martial
2252: 2229: 2201: 2134:"In early April 1809 Ball was commander of the 80-gun third rate ship of the line HMS Gibraltar. 2063: 1927: 1891: 1890:, are you still planning to work on this? No problem if you're planning to get back to it soon. 1852: 1825:
Hi, admittedly haven't kept up with this article but will stick my oar in nonetheless. I added a
1804: 1777: 1740: 1719: 772: 186: 115: 1961:
I'm going back through Pickersgill-Cunliffe's old comments to see what is outstanding. Pinging
875: 2120:, but Winfield notes three other captains taking command after Ball but before the end of 1802 1453: 993: 969: 96: 48: 2288: 1179: 1169: 752: 306: 1346:"the colonies of Australia" the colonies have not been introduced as such before this point 1282: 1129: 1509:. Also make sure to note when he's leaving his commands as well as when he's joining them 1406:"In March 1797" There's quite a skip in time here, suggest explaining the gap if possible 2281:
Captain Ball...is the first person who ever circumnavigated the continent of New Holland
1522: 1478:
Rear-Admiral Rainier's name has been purposefully misspelled as "Rainer" for some reason
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Failing this for inactivity; there have been no edits to the article in three weeks.
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should be turned into a coherent paragraph rather than four single line sentences.
2040:"In early April 1809 Ball was commander of": should this be "was made commander"? 1562:
Make sure you're noting why Ball's changes in command take place, e.g. he leaves
1116:
Precise dates should be given for dates of birth and death in lede where possible
2284: 1271:"where they captured Arabanoo" a little more context on the man would be helpful 736: 695: 2102:
Ref. #19 is accurate but for some reason doesn't include that Ball then sailed
1224:"The Supply had orders to create a penal colony" were these just the orders of 1165:
Ships when first introduced should be preceded by their type, e.g. "the 36-gun
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s inability to make the voyage to Canton, but why this is so is not made clear
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Battle of the Basque Roads", too. Note that the source also has Ball leaving
1615:"in the family vault of his wife, Anne Georgianna Henrietta Johnston." : --> 1574: 1567: 1198: 932: 768: 601: 1711:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. 1343:
The aforementioned sentence reads like an itinerary and should be rewritten
1243:"but got ashore on 6 March" Just him? Assume King went ashore too at least! 1776:
I've made a few minor copyedits; please check I didn't screw anything up.
2036:
That's everything from the earlier list. One additional comment so far:
1417: 1309:"so on 17 April 1790 Supply sailed..." this suggests that the sailing of 961: 928: 1176: 1166: 1155:
The external link image is in the article and thus is unnecessary here
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the French at Battle of the Basque Roads." (Ref. #34) Should be "was
2011:"On the return voyage..." this sentence needs dating -- not addressed 2008:". You can find these in the edit window by searching for "the ''". 2177:
Rattenbury, of Gray's Inn, on 24 July 1810." Source also spells it
1851:, just checking to see if you're planning to work on this article? 1210:
Choose how ships will be named and stick with it. E.g. will it be "
428: 384: 326:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the 352: 2136:
Gibraltar joined the fleet of Admiral Lord Gambier in blockading
1261:"on 31 December 1788" Again, repetition of the year is unneeded 2186:
If there are any other sources you'd like me to check do say.
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The Winfield 2007 reference checks out. Winfield 2005 below:
1435:"its pursuer" Ships are generally thought of as female, e.g. 864: 842: 818: 665: 648: 632: 616: 600: 584: 469: 351: 1458:
Suggest replacing "midday" with 12:00, or a variant of that
1349:
semi colon rather than comma at end of aforementioned quote
2275:
Did Ball Circumnavigate Australia before Matthew Flinders?
1803:, the original GA reviewer, in case they wish to comment. 2109:"On 9 July, Daedalus sailed for the East Indies Station, 1221:"With Ball as captain" we already know he's the captain! 41:
at the time (October 9, 2022). There are suggestions on
1912:
Iā€™ve edited the issues that youā€™ve brought up already
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The Dunmore reference main link goes to a broken page
931:
for the final time in 1813, but because promotion to
1969:"Neither marriage produced any children" is uncited. 1468:
Aforementioned sentence is janky and needs rewriting
1246:"On the return voyage..." this sentence needs dating 1135:
There are several uncited sections: last section of
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This article has been checked against the following
1513:"In 1805 he became"; also needs a more precise date 567: 481: 47:for improving the article. If you can improve it, 2181:. The other uses of the Naval Chronicle check out 1525:should be capitalised and linked in this instance 1252:"Supply left Port Jackson" Where is Port Jackson? 1769:in the lead; I thought "she" was standard usage. 1496:, and more instances of unneeded rank repetition 1277:The correct rank link for John Hunter should be 767:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of 78:for general discussion of the article's subject. 2111:joining the fleet of Rear-Admiral Peter Rainier 1926:OK, I'll take another look and add spotchecks. 1632:"Ball appears as a character..." This is trivia 1390:"Rear-Admiral Christian's" more rank repetition 2423:Low-importance Australian exploration articles 2155:Ball then went on half-pay in semi-retirement. 1409:"sailed for the Cape of Good Hope" From where? 775:. If you would like to participate, visit the 2383:European military history task force articles 1016:naval service. Almost finished copy editing. 219: 8: 2373:British military history task force articles 2338:Low-importance biography (military) articles 1363:governor doesn't need to be capitalised here 1060:Thanks, I'll finish the copy edit tomorrow. 2428:WikiProject Australian exploration articles 1577:, don't capitalise rear-admiral of the blue 1287:"Captain Hunter" No need to repeat his rank 2378:B-Class European military history articles 1640: 690: 564: 478: 379: 261: 2368:B-Class British military history articles 1616:"in the family vault of his second wife." 2393:Early Modern warfare task force articles 2123:"With the death of Captain Adrian Renou 1393:"Lieutenant-General Sir Ralph Abercromby 434:This article is within the scope of the 2418:B-Class Australian exploration articles 1671: 1643: 1113:for possible copyright violation issues 692: 381: 263: 233: 2343:Military biography work group articles 1159:which I don't really have time to do!) 454:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history 444:. To use this banner, please see the 2388:B-Class Early Modern warfare articles 2333:B-Class biography (military) articles 1826: 830:the History of exploration task force 457:Template:WikiProject Military history 20: 7: 2363:Maritime warfare task force articles 2052:s armament, or in fact most of this. 1566:because the ship gets turned into a 1339:"Sailing the 25 November 1791" : --> 1290:"Lieutenant Philip Gidley King" ibid 1207:command of Lieutenant William Dawes" 642:European military history task force 312:This article is within the scope of 1268:two boats would be more appropriate 626:British military history task force 252:It is of interest to the following 68:for discussing improvements to the 2403:Napoleonic era task force articles 1535:"On 3 August 1809" Year repetition 1293:"on 17 April 1790" year repetition 1132:, have author-links where possible 851:Need help improving this article? 14: 2413:Low-importance Australia articles 2358:B-Class maritime warfare articles 2353:B-Class military history articles 1412:Ensure you're linking words like 984:on Sydney Harbour is named after 363:the military biography work group 1475:"On 9 July 1799" year repetition 935:was by seniority, he was made a 883: 745: 735: 721: 714: 694: 541: 530: 519: 508: 497: 427: 383: 299: 289: 265: 234: 90:Click here to start a new topic. 19: 2398:B-Class Napoleonic era articles 1403:"to invade St Lucia" semi colon 1332:"Ball returned to Port Jackson 805:This article has been rated as 785:Knowledge:WikiProject Australia 658:Early Modern warfare task force 336:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography 2433:WikiProject Australia articles 2348:WikiProject Biography articles 2308:16:56, 22 September 2023 (UTC) 2293:09:55, 22 September 2023 (UTC) 2218:16:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 2196:16:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 2080:13:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 1994:16:02, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 1944:12:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 1922:11:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 1908:11:09, 24 September 2022 (UTC) 1883:06:53, 14 September 2022 (UTC) 1869:08:41, 12 September 2022 (UTC) 879:can be contacted via email to 788:Template:WikiProject Australia 339:Template:WikiProject Biography 1: 2106:to serve in the Mediterranean 1844:16:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC) 1821:15:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC) 1794:15:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC) 1757:14:40, 5 September 2022 (UTC) 1734:14:40, 5 September 2022 (UTC) 1104:17:48, 19 February 2022 (UTC) 891:for non-editorial assistance. 857:National Library of Australia 827:This article is supported by 594:Military biography task force 360:This article is supported by 87:Put new text under old text. 2323:Former good article nominees 1709:Talk:Henry Lidgbird Ball/GA2 1070:19:27, 3 November 2021 (UTC) 1049:19:16, 3 November 2021 (UTC) 1026:19:02, 3 November 2021 (UTC) 437:Military history WikiProject 324:contribute to the discussion 2269:11:01, 9 October 2022 (UTC) 2246:09:51, 3 October 2022 (UTC) 1502:"in 1801" When in the year? 1234:should be one link, not two 1128:Ensure references, such as 876:Wikimedia Australia chapter 610:Maritime warfare task force 95:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 2449: 2408:B-Class Australia articles 2328:B-Class biography articles 2093:With his health recovered, 1974:File:HenryLidgbirdBall.jpg 1542:Battle of the Basque Roads 1505:"Ball returns to Britain" 1150:File:HenryLidgbirdBall.jpg 998:23:51, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 974:22:44, 21 March 2016 (UTC) 811:project's importance scale 502:Referencing and citation: 37:, but it did not meet the 1580:"at Norfolk Island" : --> 1532:for it to be notable here 884: 872: 850: 826: 804: 730: 675:Napoleonic era task force 673: 656: 640: 624: 608: 592: 563: 460:military history articles 422: 359: 284: 260: 125:Be welcoming to newcomers 2131:at the Nore." (Ref. #29) 1380:Leeward Islands Station" 1340:"Sailing on 25 November" 949:00:24, 17 May 2022 (UTC) 937:rear-admiral of the blue 921:23:56, 16 May 2022 (UTC) 773:Australia-related topics 1873:Yeah Iā€™m working on it 1313:is directly related to 1255:"learn there language" 761:is within the scope of 568:Associated task forces: 513:Coverage and accuracy: 1264:"commanded two boats" 1232:Santa Cruz de Tenerife 869: 847: 823: 670: 653: 637: 621: 605: 589: 546:Supporting materials: 474: 356: 242:This article is rated 120:avoid personal attacks 1558:"onto half-pay" : --> 1092:Guild of Copy Editors 868: 846: 822: 764:WikiProject Australia 669: 652: 636: 620: 604: 588: 473: 355: 315:WikiProject Biography 145:Neutral point of view 39:good article criteria 2188:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 2173:"Anne Maria married 1986:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 1963:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 1836:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 1801:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 1554:"of off Texel" : --> 1369:"at The Downs" : --> 1274:"Sydney Cove" Where? 1096:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 941:Pickersgill-Cunliffe 150:No original research 33:History good article 2142:commander" and "at 1512:"1805 became" : --> 1228:or the whole fleet? 1143:, final section of 1139:, first section of 1082:Per a request from 915:The Real Serena Joy 759:Henry Lidgbird Ball 660:(c. 1500 ā€“ c. 1800) 535:Grammar and style: 488:for B-class status: 70:Henry Lidgbird Ball 29:was nominated as a 27:Henry Lidgbird Ball 1976:needs a US PD tag. 1739:I'll review this. 870: 848: 824: 791:Australia articles 671: 654: 638: 622: 606: 590: 475: 442:list of open tasks 357: 342:biography articles 248:content assessment 131:dispute resolution 92: 2170:Naval Chronicle: 1765:You use "it" for 1699: 1698: 1152:needs a US PD tag 903: 902: 899: 898: 895: 894: 689: 688: 685: 684: 681: 680: 559: 558: 446:full instructions 378: 377: 374: 373: 228: 227: 111:Assume good faith 88: 59: 58: 51:; 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(Ref. #18) 2098: 2094: 2090: 2089: 2087: 2084: 2083: 2082: 2081: 2077: 2073: 2069: 2065: 2064:Mike Christie 2057: 2054: 2051: 2047: 2046: 2045: 2039: 2038: 2037: 2031: 2028: 2025: 2022: 2019: 2016: 2013: 2010: 2007: 2003: 1999: 1995: 1991: 1987: 1982: 1981: 1978: 1975: 1971: 1968: 1967: 1966: 1964: 1945: 1941: 1937: 1933: 1929: 1928:Mike Christie 1925: 1924: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1905: 1901: 1897: 1893: 1892:Mike Christie 1889: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1880: 1876: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1866: 1862: 1858: 1854: 1853:Mike Christie 1850: 1847: 1846: 1845: 1841: 1837: 1832: 1828: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1818: 1814: 1810: 1806: 1805:Mike Christie 1802: 1799:Also pinging 1798: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1791: 1787: 1783: 1779: 1778:Mike Christie 1771: 1768: 1764: 1763: 1762: 1759: 1758: 1754: 1750: 1746: 1742: 1741:Mike Christie 1736: 1735: 1731: 1728: 1725: 1721: 1720:Mike Christie 1718: 1712: 1710: 1706: 1701: 1700: 1692: 1689: 1687: 1684: 1682: 1679: 1678: 1676: 1675: 1670: 1664: 1661: 1659: 1656: 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