962:"High voltage" is well defined and easily referenced, but it varies by context and so several values for the "cutoff" should rightly appear in this article, per section. For safety purposes, local wiring regulations generally define 50V as the cutoff for "hazard". For electronic design and protection from unwanted arcing effects, 500V or 1kV are considered the limit - above this unwanted things can happen. For relying on the useful effects of HT to make a device work, it could be a few kV. All of these voltages are different, but they're different for a reason, they have citable references, and they rely on a voltage (even the 50V) that is still an absolute high voltage. There is no contradiction here. Yet logic high is quite outside this - no-one (except you) credibly claims that the voltage indicating a logic 1 (in logic terms) is also a high value (in voltage terms).
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1120:"Electrical distribution lines" is a very broad term. In the United States, transformers on power poles reduce higher voltages via a center-tap transformer so that three lines (plus a ground line) reach the customer from the street. Schematically the terminals would be H----G----J. A 240 volt appliance such as an oven will be wired to use the potential difference of 240 volts that exists between H and J. !20 volt outlets will be wired either to H and G or to J and G, either of which yield a potential difference of 120 volts. (H is a black wire, G is a white wire, and J is another black wire.)
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between two nodes divided by the distance. That is of no significance. The actual, meaningful, value is the limit of that: dV/dl which is the local electric field and has the same units . It is true that for a given charge (related to the potential) smaller radius will exhibit higher fields due to higher charge density at the surface. However, the wording present in the article, I believe, is somewhat confusing and misleading and obscures the actual relevant breakdown mechanism.
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mishap of falling down a flight of stairs (per unit time, per unit area) than those that get tased (per unit time, per unit area). Sad fact is that many 'engineers' have no professional dignity not to produce arms (no matter who asks them to), not to produce poorly devised, poorly designed products for propagating political agendas or just being mean to others (bad measurement equipment -- e.g. police-grad /that is non-military grade/ speed radars, teasers, ... ).
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statement was intended to show the effects of voltage on the heart, the statement should be revised to clarify the relationship of voltage AND current on the heart. Later in the article, it gives examples of millions of volts touching someone and doing virtually no harm, yet this number of "50 volts" apparently causes heart fibrillation. Please reword this to represent facts and add a citation.
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I was quite happy to have every possible definition of high voltage give a context and a number, but on
Knowledge (XXG) we know there is only ONE RIGHT ANSWER and I'm curious to see what it is. Right, 50 volts is high voltage. Never mind that you can completely destroy a diode junction with only one
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I find it unusual, to say the least, to describe "logic high" as "high voltage". Obviously the term "high" is relative - if my signal level is in microvolts, I may well describe 0.5V as "high", but that would be in a very clear context. In the context of a logic board, logic one is not high voltage,
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First, this article is about high voltage in general, and not about high voltage power lines. Even more, though, this isn't the place to ask for help with research papers. You can look at the reference section in the article. I believe that there is an article on power distribution systems, which
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Good observation. The basic physics involved is that a high voltage static charge can be applied to a human body without damage if the transfer rate of electrons to the body is not high. That's what happens when somebody stands on a demonstration device that charges the individual by charging the
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While we would probably agree that 33kV/cm is just a ballpark figure, we should be somewhat careful to what we attribute the potential discrepancies. Namely, the contents of air, pressure, humidity, etc. can change this value significantly. However, we should not think of this number as potential
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would be a better place to look, but again, you can't request answers. One danger from power lines, is that they can break and fall on you. It is common not to build under the highest voltage lines, partly because it makes servicing easier. (I have known
Christmas tree farms built under them.)
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The passage quoted has to be understood in context with other information—the voltage that is sufficient to break down the insulating properties of human skin. Humans with dry skin can safely handle, e.g., the 12 volt current present in a car battery. Coming in contact with a source of AC or DC
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also exists, nobody adds references like "in meteorology, the high pressure is blah-blah-blah" to the "High pressure" article, because a high pressure in meteorology has different connotations and effects. And here, we have virtually the same. There is little sense in such references to digital
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Well, people routinely survive being hit by a baseball bat, falling down a flight of stairs (did it two or three times when I was a kid), being hit by a car... The fact that less people die from tasing means nothing in regard to its safety. Actually, I would assume that much more people have a
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I think everyone here agrees that "high voltage" is a relative term, and that in a specific context any voltage >0 could be considered high. But the term is also used more generally, as this page describes. In *common usage* high voltage has several different definitions. Logic 1 is not
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This statement seems assumed that voltage can cause fibrillation. It is known that milliamperes can cause ventricular fibrillation, but what about voltage? While voltage may affect the minimum amount of milliamps required to cause fibrillation, it does not directly cause fibrillation. If the
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Yes, with sharp points the field at the point is high, even at low volts/distance. But for large radius spheres, radius somewhat larger than the spacing, it won't be so far off. The number I remember is 10kV/cm, which might be closer for not so small radius objects. (Where the field could be
696:"The largest-scale sparks are those produced naturally by lightning. An average bolt of negative lightning carries a current of 30-to-50 kilo amperes, transfers a charge of 5 coulombs, and dissipates 500 megajoules of energy (enough to light a 100 watt light bulb for 2 months)."
994:*commonly* described as high voltage - I think you're the only person using it that way. Remember, this is Knowledge (XXG), not Wtshymanskipedia (or GyroMagicianopedia) - what we write has to be backed up by verifiable, reliable sources. Logic 1 == high voltage needs a source.
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The article mentions a higher range of voltages, especially for power distribution, as EHV or Extra High
Voltage. But it seems that EHV and Extra high voltage, link back to here. Would it be worth a separate article for them? There are additional precautions and such needed.
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The recent ISP editor wanted to change the article to mention 50 kilovolts. That voltage is much higher than would normally be present even on the wires between telephone poles, and would not merely present a "danger" of electroduction. It would produce a certainty of
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Contact with either of the "hot" lines with one hand and the "cold" line coming from the power pole will subject a person to 120 volts. If hands are wet the shock may be deadly. One hand on each of the black (hot) lines will yield a 240 volt shock, which is deadly.
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The physics is more than should be in the article, so the article needs to be rewritten to make it clear than heart problems will occur when voltage is sufficient to break down skin insulation, and safe high-voltage contacts are generally low amperage and static.
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some people seems to have problems with the claim that ppl routinely survive taser shocks. well, it's a valid claim -- as far as i know, stairs are not considered lethal contraptions, and more people have died from falling off stairs than from being tased.
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It seems we still do not agree here. What is your argument for including "logic high" in a page about "high voltage"? I would define high voltage as any potential needing some special consideration. In the case of a logic system, high (e.g. TTL:
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2V) is merely the name of a logic state (a.k.a. true or 1). There is no special consideration needed for logic high, and no safety standards or restrictions related to it's level. I really don't understand why you think it belongs here.
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potential of 80 volts (one hand on each contact) will drive electrons through the body and cause an unpleasant shock. 50 volts is the point at which a significant number of people will begin to experience an unpleasant shock.
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As well as I know, the safe to touch voltage is different for DC, low frequency AC, and high frequency AC. I think I recently saw 50V for DC, and 30V for 60Hz AC. Seems that the article could mention this difference.
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There is no need to do anything of the sort, you're just putting this hurdle forwards to be awkward. "Logic high" might yet need to appear in an article on high voltage, but only to distinguish it for obviously
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I disagree. It's important to show that "high voltage" is a term relative to its context, and it's extremely useful to show that sometimes "high" is several hundred millivolts. No-one claims this is dangerous.
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When high voltage current passes through a conductor, the electrons all flow over the surface of the conductor due to their mutual repulsion. At lower voltages the electrons can disperse throughout a conductor.
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Hybrid and electric cars normally use somewhat higher voltage, to reduce loss in the wiring. Also, charging systems often use higher than 120V (normal US power line voltage) to enough power for a fast charge.
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Why are citations missing in this 'lightning' section? Lightning is actually pretty poorly understood phenomenon and there is not that much theoretical modeling of it. Where do these claims come from.
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it's <=Vdd; I would expect high voltage to mean significantly above Vdd, such as may be used for a line-driver. I don't think any mention of digital levels belongs on this page.
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electronics, because the rĂ´le of high voltage level has nothing to do with high (i.e. dangerous, or problematic) electrical tension, just a coincidence of terms. Is there
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with voltages up to 1000VAC and 1500VDC, but not the higher voltages for spark plugs in gasoline engines. Seems to me that the 30kV or so should also be mentioned.
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apparatus on which they stand. The electrons stay on the surface because they repel each other. (Charged hairs also repel each other so a "fright wig" is produced.)
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supporting claims that digital electronics' "high" is the same "high voltage" we have the article about? If there aren't, then I remove
Wtshymanski's phrase again.
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I calls 'em as I sees 'em. "Logic high voltage" seems be a phrase much used by the mumbltey authors of books turned up by Google, so I'm not entirely insane. --
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I would appreciate a short explanation about the HV-Circuit in cars. E.G. Does a HV-Ciruit exist in Hybrid-Cars only? What is the purpose of this circuit?
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Yes, 30kA is about 30,000 Coulomb in one second. If 5 coulomb is transferred, then the lightning arc connects for 160 µs. The article is perfectly correct.
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Just to disprove that it is the same "high voltage". Google gives millions of hits for the exact term "sea lion", so consider opening the
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As well as I know it, the Taser is current limited, such that the voltage to the person isn't so high. Someone might find a reference.
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always use voltages significantly higher than 50 volts, so contact with or close approach to the line conductors presents a danger of
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What is the relevance of other languages? Google Books gives hundreds of hits for the exact term "logic high voltage". --
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for ozone disintegration? Is it really first order, and so has a half life? Does it depend on what else is around?
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WHere do you want to set the cutoff? 66,000 volts? 1000 volts? 240 Volts? 120 Volts? 48 Volts? 12 Volts? ....--
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I just tweaked parts of the article pertaining to the potential misunderstanding mentioned above. Take a look.
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Lightning strikes are of extremely high voltage, but they do not pass safely over the surface of a human body.
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based on it. Which languages (but
English) have terms similar to "high voltage" for the digital "logical 1"?
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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It seems to me somewhat useful to put here, but maybe a reference to a section on logic would be enough.
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But 30 kA is not about 30,000 Coulomb in 1 (one) second? How it can be just ONLY 5 Coulomb?
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I suppose so, but the article already says 50V. I believe it should be less for AC.
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Isn't that the point: logic high voltage != high voltage ?
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volt, or kill a cell with a stray potential of one volt. --
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This is even less a "high voltage in the context" than an
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1234:84.21.34.168
1228:— Preceding
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25:High voltage
19:This is the
1315:Wtshymanski
1087:Wtshymanski
1010:Wtshymanski
981:Wtshymanski
942:Wtshymanski
892:Wtshymanski
878:Incnis Mrsi
856:Wtshymanski
842:Incnis Mrsi
818:anticyclone
807:Wtshymanski
791:Incnis Mrsi
743:18.111.1.35
737:—Preceding
701:—Preceding
662:18.111.1.35
656:—Preceding
148:free images
31:not a forum
1451:Categories
834:the ground
629:33kV/cm.)
778:pressures
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1359:RMCD bot
1230:unsigned
739:unsigned
703:unsigned
658:unsigned
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
600:on the
511:on the
484:Physics
475:Physics
431:Physics
406:on the
199:C-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1147:Safety
645:safety
278:Energy
269:Energy
228:Energy
205:scale.
126:Google
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1438:talk
1434:Gah4
1420:talk
1401:talk
1397:Gah4
1381:talk
1377:Gah4
1337:talk
1333:Gah4
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870:lion
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775:high
759:high
747:talk
726:talk
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682:talk
678:Gah4
666:talk
635:talk
631:Gah4
398:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1390:EHV
1208:P0M
1192:P0M
1134:P0M
1044:-->
957:not
826:two
765:As
592:Mid
503:Mid
297:???
176:TWL
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