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whatever the entry has to communicate without a good selection of the things. Images are a communication channel just like paragraphs of prose (or indeed of poetry). Incidently, contrary to what someone wrote higher up this discussion, the current Toyota
Corolla cannot be seen easily all over the world. I live in England where Toyota, for reasons that presumably make sense to their marketing department, do not sell the current Corolla, and noticable numbers of "grey imports" have not (yet?) appeared of the newest cars: I guess Toyota make much more profit per vehicle on those beautifully embellished and promoted gas guzzling quasi-trucks on which the Brits like to splash out, despite the stalling of road improvements here in recent decades. Britain is a small island as that nice Mr Putin is reported to have announced the other day for the benefit of anyone who hadn't noticed it, and the absence (unless a grey import market gets going) here of recent Toyota Corollas is a slightly frivolous point, but please, whereever you live, do not assume that readers of wikipedia, simply because they use the same language version of Knowledge (XXG) as you do, see the same cars on the streets when they head out each morning.
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requirement that an equal percentage of images must be used within each era of the history of automobiles. Adding an image of a modern "bland" (Dennis
Bratland's description) model that everyone can see everywhere on the roads today, does not contribute significant value to this article. If anything, this article should have more images cars that are from the older eras because they are seldom seen by most readers. I would dare say that there are more people that have not seen or experienced 1974 and older automobiles, compared to most any "modern era" model. In summary, increasing the number of images of the early historically significant automobiles would vastly enhance the understanding of the development of this product and the numerous changes that automobiles have undergone over the years. Insisting on including one particular picture of a modern era car - no matter how representative, "it's perfect", or how "pervasive around the world" it is - seems to be overly enthusiastic in relationship to helping readers see the entire history of automobiles. Thank you for your consideration.
412:). I chose a 2011 Toyota Corolla because, being the best-selling model of all time, it is representative. Another user deleted the image, saying "a modern era automobile image is not needed, and no point in promoting a particular model". I disagree with the reversion, so I wanted to bring the topic up here. A modern image does add value to the article. Someone new to this topic is not getting a complete idea of how the appearance of cars has changed though the years because there is no image from the last 39 years (the most recent image in from 1974). Put differently, almost one-third of automobile history is missing from the images (if we start that history in 1886). An image of a contemporary automobile presents the most recent stage in automotive history, which has value for readers. Furthermore, having a contemporary image does not "promote a particular model" more than any of the other images in the article do. Consider the
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be balanced for the sake of neutrality. That's not the case here. Merely showing a photo of a car isn't in of itself promotional. Every other image in this article shows "one model" of car. Is each of them also overly promotional of that model? Of course not. The
Corrola is in fact the most produced model of car in history, and using that as a criterion is objective and neutral. Better than some arbitrary choice based on editor's whims. And the 2011 Corolla is a perfect representative of the bland, generic design sensibility that has ruled most cars we've seen sine the 1980s. So where some see an ad for Toyotas, others, like me, see an indictment of Toyota. It's perfect. --
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said, some will instantly understand the tables of figures on the accompanying
Powerpoint presentations, some will read the bullet points on the presentation (as long as there are no more than three per page), and completely miss the attempts to nuance the issues by the speaker, and some really like to digest information using pictures. It's unhelpful bordering on arrogant to assume that everyone will assimilate information in the way that you do. In that context I agree with CZMarlin that this particular entry needs more well chosen images, if only for those who don't have the time available right now and/ or right glasses to read the text as carefully as it deserves.
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engine...via resistance heat? This is thermodynamically ridiculous and I doubt any legitimate engineer would consider commercializing such a contraption. I suspect the above quote is from some conspiratorial nut trying to promote water as a clean energy "source" again. Fission would be the only reason why steam would make sense, but fission itself is a pipe dream due to the myriad practical and lethality issues associated with it.
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520:â™ Second, the "when does history stop" issue IMO is relevant, because this, like the lead image of many model pages, seems to run up against a "recentism" issue: namely, the tendency is to use the latest model. Is that a preference? Even a guideline? IDK. It is common. That seems to be at play here, too.
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The above appears to be original research. I don't see why anyone would use steam as a force intermediary, given that steam must be generated from other sources of energy, sources that can now directly drive pistons or electric motors. I mean, just how exactly would a battery be used to power a steam
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The need for global changes in energy sources and consumption to bring about sustainability and energy independence has led 21st century engineers to think once more about possibilities for steam use, if powered by modern energy sources controlled with computerized controls, such as advanced electric
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The Jensen FF's claim is that it was both the first road car (with zero pretensions to off-road use - the Jensen suspension bottoms out on an unironed billiard table) with four driven wheels and also that it was permanent or all-wheel drive, rather than the selectable 2/4 drive of the Jeep or Landie.
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article: having a Ford
Explorer as the lead image does not serve as promotion or advertising; it is simply a representative SUV. Similarly, the Corolla would be a good choice for the modern image because the model is pervasive around the world. If we can reach consensus on this, we should restore the
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Yes, put the
Corolla photo back. We had a problem a while ago of a few motorcycling articles where three fourths or more of the bikes in images were BMWs, for various reasons, even though they're really a niche brand, with maybe 5% if the market in most countries. So that was a problem and needed to
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Hi SamBlob—you're totally right, but yet many
Americans of the 20th century would have replied, "no, that's not a car, it's a Jeep. Jeeps aren't cars, they're light trucks. You can remove the bed and install back seats, but it's still a Jeep, not a car." I'm not saying it's better or worse, more or
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As for "when did history stop?" that, logically, is a moving target. When I went to school the schools here chose 1945, but if you talk to kids and their teachers here today, the schools seem to think history went on right up to or even past the break up of the Soviet Union. I guess we all need
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If you ever had to present information to a group, whether as a teacher or as a manager addressing fellow business executives, you'll know that different people are able assimilate information in different ways. Some will listen carefully to the presenter and apparently take in everything that is
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If the story from the pictures is sufficiently compelling / interesting readers may even fetch their screen-reading glasses and come back tomorrow to read the text more carefully. Which images? That can indeed lead to vigorous differences of opinion, but that's no reason to try and communicate
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In a grammar exercise on a book I found cited in a timeline of the evolution of the car a certain "Summers and Ogle" pair who in 1830 build a car which was able to travel up to 35 mph. never heard of them, so I looked around. According to an online source, a patent was deposited in April 1830. I
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I have to agree. Not to pick on anyone for brainstorming anything (always good to think), but "thermodynamically ridiculous" pretty much kills the idea. Don't see how an amazing new battery powering a steam engine could ever compete with an amazing new battery powering an electric motor directly,
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The following appears in the introduction: "After producing and selling the Model A in 1903, Ford Motor
Company's Model T became the first mass produced automobile in 1908, focusing on affordability for the average consumer. By 1927 Ford produced over 15,000,000 Model T automobiles and only then
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The Land-Rover station wagon probably has a better claim to being an early 4WD car. UK tax law was quite strict at this period and cars attracted more tax than utility vehicles (usually judged by the absence of rear windows). Despite this, L-R did think it worthwhile to produce a small number of
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to try and keep up with that moving target. It's just that if you were around when "history" happened (1) it can make you feel very old and (2) the perspectives selected by the chattering class may differ alarmingly from what you yourself remember of the matters being described. Regards
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Interesting points and observations, but they really do not relate to the main subject matter of the article. This is not an article about the most produced cars, but of the entire history of automobiles. A separate WP article lists automobile production records. Moreover, there is also no
523:â™ I mean no criticism by that, however (tho occasionally I wonder about it on pages where the car originates in the '40s or '50s). I mean to say, that's in line with usual practise. Since it is, I'd expect complaints, & probably rv's, if the Corolla was replaced with a
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It seems that most of us agree that an image adds value to the Modern era section. I have therefore restored the
Corolla image. If anyone has a better idea for a modern image (or for improving the historic era images as CZmarlin has suggested), please share it.
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For someone not familiar with the inner workings of the car, I was a bit disappointed to not find an answer within the article to a longtime mystery of mine: in front of antique/vintage cars, what is that handle called which has to be cranked every so often?
1355:"The hydrogen fuel cell, one of the technologies hailed as a replacement for gasoline as an energy source for cars, was discovered in principle by Christian Friedrich Schönbein in 1838." Between 'technologies' and 'hailed' the word 'now' should be added (
979:. Jeeps were Jeeps; if pressed on car-vs-truck, one would say a Jeep was a truck, not a car, but if some people called them cars, the solecism was mild and excusable on grounds of "precision not needed". Probably Knowledge (XXG) should explain this
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dichotomized as being so different from each other (car vs truck); and indeed I would be surprised if it is not true that in some languages they are treated exactly alike—and that speakers of those languages might find this whole topic quite odd.
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Electric cars are older than WW1 make it an article with one time line, not several ones. For example French wikipedia has a rather good way of making a timeline, it's clearer about american use of cars, than the american article itself.
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i will insert a paragraph about market penetration and surrounding issues around 1930 in "british" palestine. it's a nice example about acceptance, unions etc. after the great depression when cars started to take over worldwide.
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It would be interesting to see a chart of the percentage of households that owned a car in various decades, in various countries. This would be helpful to get an idea of how the transportation system worked in each period. --
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Many pieces of equipment were not found on early cars or were of a more primitive design; some mention of developments might be made for each of these, perhaps with a link to the
History section of an appropriate sub-article:
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Thank you for the essay, but there are CJ-2As with back seats and no truck bed. Those aren't trucks, they're cars. They carry people instead of cargo, and they're not big enough to be buses, so they're cars.
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and Da Vinci ?? I know about Newton that he built a car that could move forward on four wheels like a regular car, and it was controlled from the inside. Da vinci as well made a similar design.
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less correct, or anything; just explaining the idiom. In the US of the 1980s, the only 4-wheel-drive cars that an average person knew of were
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There were two Model As. I might dispute the T as "first mass-produced", too: the & the Duryea was produced in series, & the
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of the word that competes mentally, trying to fit into the car subset and resisting the light truck subset. This is why the word "
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How many unique variations, eg Mustang 1966 coupe, Mustang 1966 fastback, Mustang 1968 coupe, etc (per year and per body style),
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cannot find it here in the current text but I suppose that, if someone has a nice source, this information could be inserted.--
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Delete it. As a proposition, it's absurd; it should go for the self-evident lack of understanding of the subject. (As to steam
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This doesn't make sense to me. Did they produce and sell some other vehicle in 1903? Or were there 2 different Model A's?
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are automobiles, it feels just slightly funny to call them that (at least to "car guys" it does), because "automobile"
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category has rendered the old idiomatic dichotomous cutoff almost untenable. It used to be logically tied directly to
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of the "car" and "truck" mental categories without leaning toward one of them connotatively like "automobile" does.
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article, since they're all different methods of accomplishing the same thing, and it's the logical precursor to
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Hey folks, wouldn't be worth to say that the first theoretical prototypes of CARS were made by
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120204045616/http://home.arcor.de/carsten.popp/DE_00037435_A.pdf
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120204045616/http://home.arcor.de/carsten.popp/DE_00037435_A.pdf
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Many thanks for the pointer. I should've looked at the starter motor article more thoroughly.
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were always considered trucks (not cars) in this idiomatic classification, whereas
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The article just looks like a gallery, also it goes like WW1 cars, WW2 cars, : -->
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How many model names - eg Mustang, Porsche 911, Porsche 928, Tesla Model S, etc ?
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to many ears to sounding merely uninterested in fine distinctions), and now the
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resist calling a Jeep a "car", for about the same reason they resist calling an
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How many different modes from all manufacturers. Or total of different vehicles
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being practical for automotive use, I'd be inclined to disbelieve that, too.)
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https://web.archive.org/20160131044758/http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/
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were cars. But in the 2000s, some Americans began calling SUVs such as the
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Steam powered in 1892? At the 1893 Chicago World's Fair, and in the film
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https://web.archive.org/20160111133623/http://www.nyc.net.au/node/149398
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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can take today is so wide and continuous that it resists the old
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I like that this statement is cited and all, but... why is the
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How many types of cars - eg sedan, coupe, wagon, pickup, etc ?
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http://www.electricvehiclesnews.com/History/historyearlyII.htm
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divide of car-vs-truck whereby passenger cars (from sedans to
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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distinctively car-bodied station wagons, extra tax and all.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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batteries, fuel cells, photovoltaics, biofuels, or others.
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became much more popular (1990s). Early SUVs such as the
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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along with the history of hand crank start into a new
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before four-wheel drive was used on a production car.
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http://home.arcor.de/carsten.popp/DE_00037435_A.pdf
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http://home.arcor.de/carsten.popp/DE_00037435_A.pdf
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842:"cars" a little more often (it went from sounding
1697:Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in History
1634:I don't understand your question. Do you mean:
806:to coupes) are in a separate mental class from
1470:This message was posted before February 2018.
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752:First four-wheel drive production car in 1965?
862:. It's interesting to me that the very word "
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384:We can't say anything like that without an
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611:To start the engine?
43:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
36:level-5 vital article
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1100:. If necessary, add
856:automobile platforms
109:WikiProject Michigan
1472:After February 2018
1282:After February 2018
1261:parameter below to
1154:After February 2018
1145:parameter below to
798:a "car"—there is a
239:Automobile articles
1526:InternetArchiveBot
1477:InternetArchiveBot
1398:got there first.
1287:InternetArchiveBot
1159:InternetArchiveBot
927:Sincerely, SamBlob
773:Sincerely, SamBlob
311:Market penetration
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629:Manual start
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410:this version
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365:Goose friend
359:— Preceding
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51:WikiProjects
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786:This is an
722:Wing mirror
290:peer review
288:received a
230:Automobiles
221:automobiles
208:Cars portal
177:Automobiles
1671:Categories
1550:Alexmar983
1533:Report bug
1401:TREKphiler
1049:TREKphiler
1029:regarding
973:AMC Eagles
864:automobile
844:solecistic
677:Windshield
621:Kick start
613:Hand crank
334:Maximilian
1516:this tool
1509:this tool
1326:this tool
1319:this tool
1198:this tool
1191:this tool
852:platforms
788:idiomatic
760:Jensen FF
569:Albany NY
493:Charles01
419:Albany NY
39:is rated
1522:Cheers.—
1381:Jaydub99
1332:Cheers.—
1204:Cheers.—
1104:cbignore
989:ontology
908:emically
900:Etically
896:hypernym
880:hypernym
872:connotes
820:minivans
450:CZmarlin
373:contribs
361:unsigned
295:archived
125:Michigan
115:Michigan
70:Michigan
1650:Stepho
1426:my edit
1342::Online
1259:checked
1236:my edit
1214::Online
1143:checked
1098:my edit
977:Subarus
892:vehicle
257:on the
152:on the
41:B-class
1357:Pamour
1267:failed
1112:nobots
739:Beland
540:philer
318:Beland
47:scale.
888:sense
812:Jeeps
529:Monza
525:Aries
28:This
1655:talk
1625:talk
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1554:talk
1385:talk
1361:talk
1351:Fuel
1263:true
1147:true
1076:talk
1044:ever
1035:Âľ-10
993:Âľ-10
991:. —
975:and
950:talk
931:talk
913:Âľ-10
830:and
824:SUVs
816:SUVs
777:talk
743:talk
655:talk
641:talk
623:and
602:talk
573:talk
538:TREK
497:talk
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1490:RfC
1460:to
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1300:RfC
1277:).
1265:or
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985:not
796:SUV
737:--
527:or
414:SUV
249:Top
144:Mid
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53::
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