815:
break the sulfur hexafluoride bonds into three 3c-4e bonds, an examination of the molecular orbital diagram shows that there is an s-orbital interaction throughout all six bonds (of similar magnitude to all other molecules without an s-orbital lone pair such as methane) which cannot be described by the exclusive 3c-4e bond collection (of course together with the fact that the nonbonding orbitals also do not follow the same symmetries as implied by exclusive 3c-4e interactions).--
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priori assumptions about hybridization at all, but combines atomic orbitals according to the irreducible representations (irrep) of the symmetry group at hand. Only if two molecular orbitals transform as the same irrep can there be mixing. For main group elements it has long been shown that d-levels are far too high in energy to make any contribution.
634:
Good question. I have now checked the cited review article by Holmes. The bond lengths are as given by Holmes, except that ... the ring "carbon" which is beta to both O and Si should be a nitrogen (in all 3 molecules), so these structures need redrawing. However Holmes does not mention early and late
614:
Interestingly, complexes such as these provide a model for the SN2 transition state; the Si-O bonds range from close to the expected van der Waals value in A (a weak bond, representing an early SN2 transition state) almost to the expected covalent single bond value in C (a strong bond, representing a
867:
Terrible idea, the hypervalent article is really about hypercoordinated molecules and the article attempts to show how molecules deal with hypercoordination. The 3c-4e article describes one of many types of bonds. It fits nicely with 3c-2e and 4c-2e cousins. It could be trimmed down a bit. 3c-4e is
814:
Agreed. I think the best would be to explain it from the basics: hypercoordinate bonds are bonds which have nonbonding orbitals in them. The attempts to break it down into terminology will over-emphasize the local interactions without the understanding of the concept. And though some authors like to
797:
Support the merger. Comment lest we veer this direction: over-emphasis on absolutism ( "7c-12e" bond vs a collection of "3c-4e bonds") is the kind of over-precision that can wreck articles in terms of their understandability to normal readers. Chemistry is powerful because itis selectively sloppy
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I believe that As is astatine. So this would happen: Anyone near the compound would get radiation poisoning from the astatine. The whole lab would be contaminated, and so would all the gloves, lab coats, and goggles. Astatine is extremely radioactive. Don't play with that stuff(unless you're trying
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on the other hand, the reader can easily count 15 four-bond structures which are all similar and equally simple, so it is mystifying to have a diagram which claims there are only 12. I would prefer to have a diagram which said (x15), but I compromised by leaving the diagram of
Officer 781 with the
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be merged into this article as the two are intrinsically linked; not only that, but the 3c-4e is only one of many types of hypercoordinate bonds, where molecules like sulfur hexafluoride are described by a 7c-12e bond. Therefore the 3c-4e is not an isolable bonding interaction like the 3c-2e which
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Relative bond strengths in pentacoordinated silicon compounds. In A, the Si-O bond length is 1.749Å and the Si-I bond length is 3.734Å; in B, the Si-O bond lengthens to 1.800Å and the Si-Br bond shortens to 3.122Å, and in C, the Si-O bond is the longest at 1.954Å and the Si-Cl bond the shortest at
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Without having seen it myself, I have no idea what they actually did and said, or how well/vaguely/poorly they explained it. But Dirac66 is right, that compound doesn't exist as such, which is the reason there are so few google hits (and likewise none of actually ever having made it in scientific
1276:
Carbon number 6 is coordinated to five atoms, but it is not "pentavalent" in the sense that there are 5 pairs of electrons (because it has four. a C-C bond, two C-H bonds and one 3c-2e linking three carbon atoms.). It's more like the methanium ion. Strictly it is not hypervalent. I didn't see the
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This whole article is shameful. It departs from an obscure paper from 1969 that is not generally accepted in chemistry at all and makes statements that are blatantly untrue, e.g. that MO-theory assumes totally outdated and disproven things like spd hybridization. Modern MO-theory does not make a
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Hmm. That's a point then. Although the resonance structures on wikipedia don't seem to be exhaustive (eg. benzene doesn't include the Dewar structures). I would prefer the articles here to have a bit more leeway, rather than being so strict, in their descriptions so it would be more easily
1291:
Thanks for clarifying which carbon was meant. No, carbon never has an expanded octet so it should not be described as hypervalent or pentavalent. If someone else does insist that the 2-norbornyl cation be included in this hypervalent article, I would request a source describing its
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are symmetry-forbidden? It is true that 3 structures are trans and the other 12 cis, so the trans structures will have a different (smaller? larger?) weighting in the overall wavefunction than the cis. However it is not all clear to me that the trans structures have zero weighting.
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I'd suggest we introduce the concept along with the 3c-4e and how
Pimentel and Rundle proposed it (in the current 3c-4e article this history isn't elaborated upon). And then in the second section we derive the concept of non-bonding orbitals from there to apply to other
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The reason that 3c-4e is emphasized is historical as its description goes back to
Pimentel in 1951. If it is merged into this article, it should at least have its own section in the article, followed by a second section for other similar bonding schemes.
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How come there's nothing on Carbon
Pentafluoride? I would love to add a page, but all I can say for sure is that the Carbon atom is bonded to five Fluorine atoms because of orbital hybridization. I couldn't even find a single page about CF5 on Google.
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people interested in hypercoordinated molecules should not be bothered with the finer details of the three-center four-electron bond. Hypercoordination can live without 3c-4e but the reverse is not true, In this sense the topics are not interlinked.
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now show unpaired electrons (on P and F, though not on S), for which I believe there is no experimental evidence in these molecules. All non-hypervalent published structures which I have ever seen follow the octet rule and show ionic structures -
1006:(an inside para/para combination) that would give us a Dewar-like form. The geometric change from planar hexagon to two-squares hinged at a new sigma bond is waaaaay more of an actual chemical change than just alternate electron configuration.
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I agree with DMacks. The Dewar structure is qualitatively different from the Kekulé, and seems stranger to nonexpert readers because of the long bond, so that it is reasonable to omit it from a simple discussion of resonance in benzene. For
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I heard about it on
Outrageous Acts Of Science and saw footage of someone setting it on fire. If so, how could it not exist? 03:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)03:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)03:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)03:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
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But are there any instances where the 3c-4e is used outside of hypercoordination? Moreover, the 3c-2e and 4c-2e are distinctive interactions, while the 3c-4e is again, only one of many types of hypercoordinate bonds.
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No every electron-combination we as smart people can envision are actually important resonance structures (or even existing ones (or even "resonance structures" at all)). I don't see any orbital overlap
1100:
Hmm. I bought new glasses last week and can now see that what I thought were unpaired electrons are actually tiny + signs on P and tiny - signs on F. Perhaps you can enlarge these signs.
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No reaction after 5 years(!), so I have now finally deleted the OR and changed oxygen to halogen. Perhaps someone with the proper software could redraw the structures as indicated above.
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The way I read both sentences, the first is stating the oxygen-silicon bond lengthens going from iodine to chlorine, the second claims it to shorten. Who knows the correct answer?
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the rate of the reaction is gviven in "Kobs, Ms". Although the unit of this (or these?) "kobs" is given, what is it refering to? If it is an acronym, what does it mean?
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The two images were duplicated but the captions were different. In other words, one of the images was phosphorus standing in for silicon and another was vice versa.--
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which means more than). The structure is rather confusing to me and probably to other readers. Perhaps more explanation is needed — could you specify which carbon (C
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I see you decided today to delete 2-norbornyl cation from this article, and then decided to put it back. I have doubts also about its inclusion, especially since at
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SN2 transition states here, so this point is OR which contradicts the reference and should be removed. As for weak and strong bonds, Holmes says that the silicon-
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conflation of valency with atomic coordination until I re-examined it today. I guess I will remove the cation unless someone raises concerns about removing it.--
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I think the answer is that the errors are not obvious, at least to me. Could you explain here on the talk page what exactly was wrong and what you have changed?
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Recently a (I believe theoretically) hypervalent carbon atom has been found, bonding to 3 hydrogen and 2 astate atoms. Is this worth mentioning? Source:
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758:. I take note the historical significance. But maybe some more emphasis on the non-bonding concept may be needed at the hypervalent molecule page.--
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value is close to a van der Waals value for A, so here again the article needs rewriting. When in doubt, check the original reference (if possible).
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But I don't get how the topics are not interlinked? How 3c-4e is not equivalent with hypercoordination (isn't it a subset of hypercoordination)?--
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Being puzzled with it for a day, I too reached that point. Never the less, it ensures me to translate it that way. Thanks.
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Hmm, on second thought, the 3c-2e and 4c-2e are related. They're both electron-deficient bonds, mostly used by boranes.--
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is not a stable molecule and does not exist. Therefore there is no reason to include it in a
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to keep the lab to yourself). 03:41, 9 December 2016 (UTC)03:41, 9 December 2016 (UTC)03:41, 9 December 2016 (UTC)~
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Done. I'll enlarge the signs for the images at the orbital hybridisation article after lunch. Are they better?--
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If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
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If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
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on
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before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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on 7 September 2012. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see
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Your edit summary is utterly offensive , do you really expect a comment?
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I have no idea how this error could have been overlooked for years.
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Today you changed the diagrams and their captions in the section
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with many concepts (so long as we are aware of our sloppiness).--
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OK. I have enlarged these images somewhat for legibility.
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If the image has already been deleted you may want to try
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If the image has already been deleted you may want to try
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2-Norbornyl cation#Hypovalency: The Non-Classical
Picture
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All
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All Knowledge (XXG) files with unknown copyright status
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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750:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
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962:1. SF6 resonance structures - 12 or 15?
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782:would then deserve its own article.--
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148:free images
31:not a forum
1399:Categories
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88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1063:F and SF
553:non-free
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388:Shameful
56:get help
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126:Google
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