1241:, I think it is a good idea. It will allow us to make a proper distinction between the management aspects of the "concept" of the International Space Station, contrasted to the "object". While the latter is the most visible to many and should definitely be the main article, the program itself has many interesting elements that deserve a good article as well. This article is well suited for that basis I think. A good introduction to mark the difference between those two ideas however is KEY in avoiding confusion. Also, I was thinking that perhaps it might be an idea to call it International Space Station programs instead. Since it are actually many separate programs from several nations. The british vs. american issue is irrelevant and can easily be solved when the other discussion has reached it's end. I don't think anyone will mind if we extend that into this article. Most of this article is from the original ISS article anyways. --
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Those points are indeed correct, however, in response to the first point, the P&FA article deals with, in theory, ALL political of the station, including in Europe, Russia, etc., and so the criticism article would fit in well in the main article. As for the second point, that is indeed what we're
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I decided to trim two of the three cite tags and removed them. I couldn't find any references in the main ISS article that had the information I removed. I doubt they would be missed. As for the third cite tag, I really think "In addition, the exchange rate between ruble and USD is not adequately
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Well, having heard two voices in favour, I'm going to execute the merge. I feel that TeH nOmInAtOr raises good points about the operation of the station, but they don't seem to be relevant to the merge process itself. Further investigation shows this article to be an almost word-for-word copy of the
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In my opinion the articles are different enough to merit their own articles. I slightly altered the criticism section in the other article to target the ISS only rather than both the ISS and NASA. The distinction is made because NASA is responsible for a large number of projects not limited to the
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The sentence (Zarya, although constructed and launched by Russia, has been paid for and is officially owned by NASA) I suggest this is not supported properly by any links. Ownership of the Zarya module is
Russian, according to everything substantiated I can find. It's part of the ROS, and RSA has
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I hate to say it, but that's not what's being discussed here - this is a section for discussion on the merging of one article into another, not the pros and cons of the space station from the point of view of us. I agree on the POV, by the way - it's going to need some work.
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I just can't see the ISS as being a sustainable living environment because of a number of flaws. 1) no propulsion, except from expensive space shuttle flights, 2) no natural ecosystem with plant life, 3) no power except solar panels, 4) rapid orbital decay. 5) See
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Russia plans to buy back Zarya and include it in OPSEK. If memmory serves, they were talking about trading soyuz services for Zarya, but as far as I know the OPSEK project is still up in the air. BTW, on matters like this, Google is your friend :)
1503:. I hesitate on this last one only because it was Citation Needed this year instead of years ago. Cold7Realm, I know you suggested I wait, but I didn't trim out too much and thought this might be acceptable. Please revert if you disagree.
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The layout with criticism in the "See Also" section is exactly the same as in the "Google" article. When I as a taxpayer am forced to pay 100 billion for a project of questionable credibility, I want those responsible to be held accountable.
1224:. To my knowledge it is largely a joint U.S. - Russian program, with a smattering of EU and other participation. It is intentionally a broad international program, but I do not recall programme as being either a U.S. or Russian spelling.
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article be merged into this one, as it is short enough to serve as a good section on the main P&FA article, being quite small on its own, and the whole point of splitting this article off from the main
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ISS. As such, the ISS's failure should not be blamed entirely on NASA. For example, NASA could cut funding for the project and ESA/JAXA/RSA could take over the project and that would be OK with me!
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Please keep the language issue separate, it has no point in this discussion, this is about changing the very nature of this specific article. The language issue will be dealt with separately. --
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I think a separate "programme" article should be written, since this deals more with the international politics of the station. Another article focusing more on the programme should be written.
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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
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for the reasons expressed in other places. The major supporter and the language of the
English communications is American English.
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I agree in principle that the
Criticism article should be merged here, but I think that the criticism article is one sided, and has
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article deals with the hardware itself, whereas this article deals with political (including criticism) and financial issues.
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I'd like to point out that several of the references in the main article are now closed to commentary - e.g. criticism. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Does anyone have any link or information to substantiate the claim that Zarya is owned by NASA, funding issues aside ?
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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
1537:'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for
1385:'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for
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That's the thing, you see - for this project, more than any other, it's the international politics that '
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are examples of much cheaper science missions with a much higher tangible output of scientific research.
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giving a real comparison to what the costs for Russia really are." isn't needed, and is in violation of
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for extended periods of time is not a very smart idea. There isn't anything in space to survive off of.
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on
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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issues. The criticisms are not countered, or discussed with people who are in favor of the ISS.
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I will go about moving and creating summaries on April 10, 2010 if there is no objection.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20080603192932/http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/eng/iss/facts.asp
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050227035256/http://www.eclipsetours.com/sat/debris.html
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http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2008/10/bush-signs-nasa.html
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https://archive.is/20130128194640/http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18482
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Yeah, they're both fairly short and the scopes overlap enough. I'm down for it. —
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http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/files/GriffinEmail.jpg
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article. We should shorten it and make it more of a summary instead of a copy.
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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
2320:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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2060:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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I'd like to suggest that we change the name of this article by moving it to
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Also, I would like to point out that in many of the space articles such as
611:) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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Criticism section, and so I think we have a good case for merging.
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
1579:"NASA budget for 2011 eliminates funds for manned lunar missions"
1557:"NASA budget for 2011 eliminates funds for manned lunar missions"
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International_Space_Station#Politics.2C_utilization_and_financing
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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http://www.space.com/spacenews/archive04/budgetarch_090704.html
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I'm sorry, but I fail to see the relevance of that comment...
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/trs.pdf
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/trs.pdf
1160:, and I an have it either way - "programme" or "program".
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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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http://www.spacetoday.org/SpcStns/FirstAnnivOccupy.html
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I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
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The following is a closed discussion of the proposal.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
383:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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2324:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=18482
2214:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2064:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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topics of a cross-border nature on
Knowledge (XXG).
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2182:http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN04/wn092404.html
57:for general discussion of the article's subject.
2412:Mid-importance International relations articles
1626:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8489097.stm
2310:This message was posted before February 2018.
2200:This message was posted before February 2018.
2050:This message was posted before February 2018.
1324:International_Space_Station#Station_operations
647:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
8:
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680:Criticism of the International Space Station
400:Template:WikiProject International relations
2032:http://www.eclipsetours.com/sat/debris.html
839:The best way, in my opinion, to expand the
2280:I have just modified one external link on
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1595:Reference named "BBC cancels Moon return":
1435:. New York: Springer-Verlag New York Inc.
1410:. New York: Springer-Verlag New York Inc.
1333:I feel this section can be moved over the
657:Political and financial aspects of the ISS
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1669:"Terminations, Reductions, and Savings"
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1577:Achenbach, Joel (February 1, 2010).
799:The point is that putting humans in
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1637:"Obama cancels Moon return project"
1607:"Obama cancels Moon return project"
1559:. Washington Post. February 1, 2010
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1404:David Harland (30 November 2004).
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2284:. Please take a moment to review
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2004:. Please take a moment to review
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1774:. Please take a moment to review
74:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
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1432:The Story of Space Station Mir
1407:The Story of Space Station Mir
231:It is of interest to multiple
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2378:07:25, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
1988:07:30, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
927:for a more worthwile mission
678:I'd like to suggest that the
546:This article is supported by
391:and see a list of open tasks.
302:and see a list of open tasks.
66:Put new text under old text.
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2268:10:25, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
1883:18:40, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
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2277:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1767:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1710:16:21, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
1513:03:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
1474:20:45, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
1459:19:53, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
1302:10:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
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805:Mars Reconaissance Orbiter
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530:project's importance scale
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1525:I check pages listed in
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124:Neutral point of view
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129:No original research
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1563:February 1,
1272:Vegaswikian
582:written in
305:Spaceflight
296:spaceflight
252:Spaceflight
172:free images
55:not a forum
2386:Categories
2373:Report bug
2263:Report bug
2113:Report bug
1340:Also, the
1201:Colds7ream
1118:Colds7ream
1047:Colds7ream
1017:Colds7ream
964:Colds7ream
779:Colds7ream
689:Colds7ream
661:Colds7ream
2356:this tool
2349:this tool
2246:this tool
2239:this tool
2096:this tool
2089:this tool
1968:this tool
1961:this tool
1863:this tool
1856:this tool
1702:AnomieBOT
1451:AnomieBOT
1096:Parsecboy
593:travelled
112:if needed
95:Be polite
45:talk page
2362:Cheers.—
2252:Cheers.—
2102:Cheers.—
1974:Cheers.—
1907:cbignore
1869:Cheers.—
1782:cbignore
1727:Penyulap
1681:March 7,
1647:March 7,
1641:BBC News
1612:March 7,
1298:contribs
1255:contribs
845:the moon
752:Apollo 8
718:contribs
605:artefact
496:European
80:get help
53:This is
51:article.
2286:my edit
2136:my edit
2006:my edit
1984::Online
1936:checked
1901:my edit
1879::Online
1831:checked
1776:my edit
1322:Moving
1264:Support
1239:Support
1218:Support
1158:Support
609:analyse
601:defence
528:on the
421:on the
332:on the
223:C-class
178:WPÂ refs
166:scholar
1915:nobots
1790:nobots
1175:Oppose
883:Martin
879:WP:POV
841:manned
811:, and
722:e-mail
597:centre
589:colour
501:Europe
446:Europe
229:scale.
150:Google
1689:From
1662:From
1630:From
1620:From
1600:From
1571:From
1550:From
1505:Aalox
1501:WP:OR
1466:Aalox
1464:fixed
1423:From
1398:From
1353:Aalox
705:Twas
659:. --
655:into
653:merge
193:JSTOR
154:books
108:Seek
1940:true
1835:true
1751:talk
1747:U5K0
1731:talk
1683:2010
1649:2010
1614:2010
1587:2010
1565:2010
1539:this
1509:talk
1485:talk
1470:talk
1437:ISBN
1412:ISBN
1387:this
1357:talk
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1166:talk
1122:talk
1100:talk
1088:Move
1051:talk
1021:talk
1007:talk
968:talk
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857:talk
849:mars
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783:talk
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693:talk
665:talk
324:High
186:FENS
160:news
97:and
2330:RfC
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2190:to
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