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From Dixon (pp.156-158) (I think it is an important work on Abd al-Malik's reign & should be present in bibliography) too it is clear that rebels came straight to Fars and stayed there for some time. Hajjaj marched against them and was defeated. So going first to Kufa, then Basra and then back to Fars, and then again to Kufa is unlikely.
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That's because I didn't want to get into the details of Zayd's revolt, but highlight the continuities with Ibn al-Ash'ath's, as well as the general spirit of the anti-Umayyad sections of the populace. I will add the Alid origin of Zayd's revolt for completeness, but I won't go into detail, as this is
1817:
11) "and reportedly executed (or persuaded Mus'ab ibn al-Zubayr to execute) al-Mukhtar's captured followers in revenge." This needs a bit of explanation as to what was to be avenged. A footnote would be fine, explaining Ashraf's resentment against Mawali (their former slaves) who had persecuted them
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Yeah, that is what was meant, and I will consider editing it, but I want to note that that's not COPYVIO; there can not be a copyvio when the work you cite is on the public domain, and it is most definitely not a copyvio when you reference and explicitly state in your edit summary where it is coming
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4) "Abd al-Malik's brother Bishr put him in command of over 5,000 Kufans for a campaign against the
Kharijites threatening al-Ahwaz. The Kharijites retreated before the far larger caliphal army, led by Khalid ibn Abdallah ibn Khalid ibn Asid..." It suggests Ibn Ash'ath got there first and Kharijites
1870:
What we now call "Iraq" was the heart of
Sassanid Iran, which had to put up with the new overlord Al-Hajjaj. We can be sure that the had no love for him. So, the "Iraqi soldiers" weren't deployed in Iraq itself but were sent out to provinces. These were the ones that Al-Ash'ath picked up on his way
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12) "Wellhausen's analysis, furthermore, ignored the evident religious dimension of the revolt, especially the participation of the fanatical zealots known as qurrāʾ ("Quran readers")." This should be supported by citation immediately at the end of the sentence and should be attributed specifically
1608:
I only have chapter on
Mukhtar and it is identical to Thesis. From the snippet view on Google, I can safely say that the rest is identical as well. If you need page numbers, just copy some sentences from thesis and paste in snippet view on google; page number will turn up. The above (pp. 156-158 in
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I doubt it. To me it seems that
Wellhausen is referring to later strengthening of Ibn al-Ashath's army from these towns. Kennedy says "He led his army west from Sistan, through Fars and defeated al-Hajjaj’s forces at Tustar, 81/701, before sweeping on to establish himself in his home town of Kufa."
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15) Just noted one more thing. Infobox mentiones his participation in the battle of
Karbala. Other than his role in the arrest of Ibn Aqil, body doesn't say anything else regarding the matter. Getting Ibn Aqil arrested is not actually "participating in the battle of Karbala". If you have sources
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Dixon I was aware of, but it was not available when I wrote this article. I just recently (re)discovered it when I was giving feedback on Abd al-Malik to Al Ameer son. I still only have access to the thesis, however, not the 1971 book, so if there are any differences (Al Ameer son said there are
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14) Dixon's views on "Motives" should also be included. He concludes that Ibn al-Ash'ath himself was motivated by his personal pride and insulting behavior of Hajjaj, but his supporters had various reasons: lower pay than
Syrians, distant campaigns, hatred of Hajjaj and Syraians, and religious
1772:
Well, Ibn al-Ash'ath's story is essentially the story of his rebellion. The reasons why he attracted support, the role of the qurrāʾ , and why he was uncompromising during negotiations, should be mentioned before the main events of the revolt itself to give sufficient context. I had followed a
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7) "...set out on the return journey to Iraq, picking up more soldiers from Kufa and Basra, who were stationed as garrisons, along the way. By the time the army reached Fars...". Kufa and Basra are not on the route west from
Sajistan to Fars. Is it that they first marched on to Kufa and then
1915:...", since it suggests either these town were on the way or that rebels went Kufa first, them to Fars defeated Hajjaj at Tustar, then went to Basra, then again to Kufa. Both are incorrect in my view. So it should be modified into something like "...picking up more soldiers
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3) In "Origin and early career" three generations are discussed together, and it is a bit difficult at first to discern to whom the word "he" refers to. I think a few "he"s should be replaced with names "al-Ash'ath ibn al Qays", "Muhammad" and "Ibn al-Ash'ath".
1836:
16) That's all from me. Once the issues are resolved, I think it would be ready for FAC. Of course, some points are subjective and you may ignore them if you want. But some should be addressed. Also, please see the section below. Great work. Thanks.
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1747:, thanks a lot. Are there any more comments coming? Otherwise I'll start addressing them one by one. If there is anything at all even as a general suggestion rather than a specific troublespot, please don't hesitate in mentioning it. Cheers,
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9) Infobox says he participated in campaigns against Mus'ab. Which one's? He was allied with him against
Muskhtar. When Mus'ab was defeated, he allied with Umayyads. But that is not akin to participating in campaigns against him, I think.
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I agree that the current phrasing is confusing. But I think it is useful to convey that it was "Iraqi" soldiers that were rebelling. So, we can say "picking up discontented Iraqi soldiers stationed in garrisons along the way..." --
1469:
I think, "Sind" in this context means Makran, which was conquered in 644 CE, or perhaps some other part of
Balochistan. It was regularly beset with rebellions until the Muhammand bin Qasim's campaign, and perhaps even afterwards. --
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retreated only when they saw Khalid coming. Tabari (Vol 21, pp.203-204) says that Ibn Ash'ath & Khalid brought their troops together in Ahwaz, and when the combined forces advanced on
Kharijites, they fled.
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Yes detailed treatment of Zayd's motives isn't required here, but it is important to be accurate. Currently it gives wrong impression that reasons behind Zayd's revolt were the same as that of Ibn al-Ashath's.
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back to Iraq. Al-Ash'ath's "peacock army" itself was made up of mostly Iraqis, deployed to fight the Zunbils. So, on the whole it was an "Iraqi" rebellion against the "governor of Iraq".
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garrisons in the provinces". And, I think "from Kufa and Basra" can be deleted as irrelevant detail. Those were the places of the origin (or at least recruitment) of these troops. --
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5) "There he remained in hiding until al-Hajjaj granted him pardon." Pardoned for what? EI2 article doesn't say anything about it, but I'm sure, Tabari will have some info on this.
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6) "he had originally been sent to Kirman to punish a local leader who had refused to help the governors of Sistan and Sind." How can this be possible? Sind was conquered in 712.
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1) Lead: "...was a distinguished Arab nobleman and general under the early Umayyad Caliphate". I think replacing "under" with "during" will better describe the situation.
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2) I would prefer removing "early", as it was not really that early. His prominence being in 690s, some 30 years after the founding of the Umayyad caliphate.
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they passed on the way, and by the time the army reached Fars the decision had been made to reject the caliph 'Abd al-Malik as well as al-Hajjaj.
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8) Zayd's aim was mainly to restore Alid power. Other issues were secondary. You haven't mentioned it at all.
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which mention him being the part of the army of Umar ibn Sa'ad, please mention it. Otherwise modify infobox.
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in the middle of the revolt story? Sources discuss them at the end, and it makes more sense in my view.
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YEs you are right. I only have problem with the statement "...picking up more soldiers from
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1487:: I thought the same, but source (EI2) says "Sind". I think it should be simply deleted.
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13) "fanatical zealots known as qurrā". "fanatical" should be removed for neutrality.
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to the author who says it. Currently it seems to be your personal view.
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sfn error: no target: CITEREFHawting,_The_First_Dynasty_of_Islam2002 (
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Opening a new section because the thread above is getting too long.
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If you want to avoid the labor, you can just cite the thesis. See
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southeast to Basra and then Fars? If so, it should be clarified.
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340:Did you know?
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266:June 27, 2015
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52:Learn to edit
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214:please do so
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19:This is the
2076:LouisAragon
2064:Constantine
2060:LouisAragon
2045:LouisAragon
1978:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
1938:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
1852:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
1804:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
1779:Constantine
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1707:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
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1578:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
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1502:)¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
1264:Middle Ages
1211:Middle Ages
1005:Middle East
944:Afghanistan
931:Afghanistan
887:Afghanistan
826:discussions
805:Iran portal
700:Iraq portal
365:in 700–703?
148:free images
31:not a forum
2095:Categories
1999:References
1863:The Iraqis
1179:has passed
939:discussion
830:open tasks
617:Arab world
608:Arab world
580:Arab world
553:photograph
344:column on
205:identified
2036:Cplakidas
1951:Kautilya3
1888:Kautilya3
1874:Hawting:
1789:Alright.
1558:Cplakidas
1530:Kautilya3
1522:this edit
1485:Kautilya3
1472:Kautilya3
1001:Biography
496:Biography
429:Biography
334:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2013:, p. 68.
1441:Comments
434:Military
400:FA-class
316:Promoted
297:Approved
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1969:AhmadLX
1929:AhmadLX
1843:AhmadLX
1795:AhmadLX
1766:Motives
1741:AhmadLX
1698:AhmadLX
1644:AhmadLX
1615:AhmadLX
1591:AhmadLX
1569:AhmadLX
1493:AhmadLX
1402:on the
1291:on the
971:on the
862:on the
749:on the
644:on the
336:in the
256:Process
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1543:from.
406:scale.
278:Listed
259:Result
126:Google
1923:..."
1909:Basra
1375:Islam
1366:Islam
1316:Islam
557:added
549:image
198:is a
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2080:talk
2049:talk
2017:help
1955:talk
1921:Fars
1913:Fars
1907:and
1905:Kufa
1892:talk
1534:talk
1476:talk
835:Iran
818:Iran
774:Iran
722:Iraq
713:Iraq
669:Iraq
485:and
253:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2029:Pic
1886:--
1735:Hi
1394:Low
1283:Low
1182:an
963:Low
854:Low
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636:Low
555:be
551:or
176:TWL
2097::
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