2634:
come to
Knowledge for reading recommendations. I expect that most readers behave similarly. As for academic practice, it varies. Maybe it's different in philosophy, but in science mixing footnotes and references is rare - the expected practice is that a list of references is nothing more than an index that doesn't waste your time with extraneous text; if a citation is relevant to a footnote, then the footnote simply carries a reference which those interested can then check - something your example already does, and would still do as an efn. Mixing is messy and inconvenient for those only after the notes; readers either have always check the reflist or check every ref annotation just in-case it has a note too. Separating the functions keeps the reflist tidy, and makes the notes more noticeable: they are labelled differently, they have a separate heading which is explicitly linked in the toc, and they aren't buried in a list of refs. I honestly don't understand what's supposed to be confusing.
2517:. Is it then a reference, or a note? Moreover, I just think it's a bad idea to have one set of numbered notes and another set of lettered notes. I'm also reasoning from the point of view that those readers who are interested in the extra details contained in the notes would generally also be interested in the sources the article is based on: the combination of referencing and annotation in footnotes being a standard academic practice, people who are used to in-depth reading would look at all the refs, while other readers would most probably look at none of them. But perhaps my idea that interested readers would hover over all references/notes anyway is colored by my habitually browsing WP on a desktop or laptop rather than on a tablet or mobile phone, on which hovering is not possible? Do you really think that mobile/tablet users would sooner tap on a lettered note than on a numbered note? Is that your habitual use?
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1518:
an average sidebar image (which as I've explained above is of course on purpose), but it does not at all jam away the text so as to make it hard to read (it takes up 1/4th and 1/3th of the text space, respectively). On my tablet and smartphone (a 1080 x 1920 8" 9:16 and a 1080 x 1920 5" 9:16), the image renders at the screen's width, below rather than to the right of the first paragraph. In general, the image behaves well and doesn't get in the way of the text on any device I own. I've requested a third opinion, if only to check on more devices.
1733:). This is much larger than average, but I've found this to be appropriate in this case because the image illustrates at a glance a number of aspects about the analogy (i.e., its concrete and literal rather than abstract and metaphorical nature), thus dispelling a common misconception and making the basic idea much easier to understand. The image would not fulfill this function if it were much smaller, because one has to see the details to understand what it represents, and because most readers would mistake it for a
1854:
cosmos, and a somewhat larger size may help with that. While I'd be very interested in an improved caption, I still think that much would be lost by reducing it to the standard size. Yes, if it would seriously break layout on a majority of screen configurations reducing size would be an obvious choice, but I suspect that Scyrme's screen configuration is precisely the one on which the image renders in the worst possible way, and not by any means the most common configuration out there.
1433:
reader would understand, and I get what you say about most people not recognizing the content of the picture. But then the question is, what damage does it do? Depending on the device used, it may sit somewhat in the way. It's also not the prettiest picture, I'll give you that. But in the end, I find that a very small price to pay in return for being able to give an admittedly minority readership an aha moment that may change their entire understanding.
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concise way to directly link caption to image, whereas using translations would break that direct link without being helpful - most people don't know what "empyrean" or "aetherial" mean, so "empyrean heaven" etc. would be no more meaningful than Latin. Being able to understand "heaven" here doesn't help, because most people know only 1 heaven which when read into the caption makes no sense; they end up having to click the blue link anyway.
2680:
circles indicate the division of the heavens according to the material of which they are made (very pure fire or light for the
Empyrean, aether for the aetherial heaven, and the four elements for the sublunary part of heaven), not material orbs carrying around planets and stars, or carrying other such nested orbs. While it may be tempting to speak of these divisions as celestial spheres, it's a misnomer, and ultimately incorrect.
1139:
image I found about the relation between macrocosm and microcosm. The meaning of that picture can be that man live in the body of microcosm during the day time with consciousness and then give up his astral body and ego to pass into the macrocosm when he is asleep, lying in the stream of forgetfulness. "Title
Macrocosm and Microcosm Author Rudolf Steiner Publisher SteinerBooks, 1986 ISBN 1621510700, 9781621510703"
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1998:
guessing a 10" or 12" 1080 x 1920 tablet?). Scyrme proposed using size 1.5 above, but I've been experimenting a bit with it at my 13" 1366 x 768 laptop (which is, after the 5–8" 1080 x 1920 screens on smartphones and smaller tablets, by far the most commonly used screen size), and at anything below 1.8 the details (e.g., the tetragrammaton, or the rays of the sun) become difficult to distinguish.
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2793:(which as far as I know is equivalent to the empyrean here) is typically listed among the spheres, so I'm not convinced it is a misnomer to refer to these bands as celestial spheres. However, I won't insist on inclusion. (As a sidenote, regarding what the empyrean contains, Fludd viewed the empyrean as being tripartite; they aren't illustrated here, but are illustrated in other diagrams.)
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1777:, if we're going to use this image, it makes sense for it to be larger than standard. This is a common practice for diagrams with crucial text; the text should be large enough to be legible. If that creates an image rendering that seriously breaks page layout, the best solution is to use a different image, not to have a thumbnail that needs to be clicked on to be useful. If
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prominent as a typical sidebar. Furthermore, even someone focusing on the article text will find the text explicitly notes that they should direct their attention to the image. (Or did before you changed the note back into a ref, making it look like just another ref; not sure why you did that.) All things considered, the diagram remains hard to miss even scaled down a bit.
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3530:, etc.). Because of this context it's absolutely relevant to juxtapose the microcosm/macrocosm concept to Aristotelian cosmology. However, the big thing here is that the sentence as it stands is unsourced. I know these things from my own expertise as a historian of philosophy, and I think there's a good chance that they are verifiable in RS (and thus meet
246:
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946:"At §368, Socrates mentions that this virtue is “spoken as a virtue of an individual, and sometimes as the virtue of the state” and that it would be easier to discern its essence if one looked at the State because it would have a larger quantity of it and then proceeding back down into the individual to see how it appears in the smaller unit.""
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1443:
That effect would be entirely undone by reducing its size and expecting interested readers to click on it. It's not that there's so much to see in the picture, it's rather that by being a little oversized it forces a mental image in the back of the readers' minds which helps them to understand better what is being said in the text.
1827:, on the one hand, the layout does not look seriously broken, just a bit lopsided. On the other hand, if everyone agrees that text is not crucial, how about a standard thumbnail image and an improved caption to describe what's going on here. Even at the larger size, its relevance to the article was not immediately clear to me.
1364:). Of course the article itself is also helpful, but at least on my devices the image at size upright=2 does not distract from the text, and it makes it in fact considerably easier to understand. As I said in my edit summary, a picture says more than a thousand words here. I urge you to reconsider. Thanks!
2154:). The earth corresponds to the groin, around which the geocentric model of celestial spheres revolves; the stars and planets (except the sun) are omitted but implied, being part of the 'aetherial heaven' between the 'elemental' and 'empyrean' heavens which are also labelled. However, the figure's legs
3490:
As for removing the whole sentence, that proposal certainly has some merit. In my view the fact that the term is first attested in
Aristotle is encyclopedically relevant information, but it's not placed in the right context here (which would probably be some 'Etymology' section or similar). Aristotle
3378:
Medieval philosophy was generally dominated by
Aristotle, who despite having been the first to coin the term "microcosm", had posited a fundamental and insurmountable difference between the region below the moon (the sublunary world, consisting of the four elements) and the region above the moon (the
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not material celestial spheres. It is not the case, for example, that the whole aetherial heaven rotates around the earth as one: only the planetary celestial spheres which are contained in that part of heaven actually turn, or perhaps at most a separate celestial sphere located at its outer rim. The
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definitely needs work, but I don't see that as a reason to not link it where it's relevant; even weak articles should be linked so that they get more traffic - getting more eyes on an article improves the likelihood that the article will be bettered. I linked "heart" and "sun" to emphasise that they
1997:
Yes, it seems that there's no layout issue with size 1.8 (or even with the originally used 2.0) on the great majority of screens, and the only reason to adjust it really is the way it looks on screens like the one used by Scyrme. I agree from the screenshot that 1.8 is quite bad for such screens (I'm
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As you acknowledge, the image gets in the way of the text, jamming it to one side. That "you can't can't not look at" it is exactly the problem; readers are primarily here to read, and the image gets in the way of that. I don't think that's a negligible problem, and I don't think it's worth doing for
1442:
Now it could be that the text is already doing that (I would hope so; I really wish there had been such an article when I was first exploring these subjects). But the thing with the large picture is that it does it at a glance: you can't not look at that giant, ugly human body the size of the cosmos.
2921:
I observed exactly the same behavior as you described. The fact that it works on the talk page but not in the article makes me think this is some kind of bug in the mediawiki software. However, after playing around a bit with it, I found a workaround: it works when putting the wiki-links in the tags
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sooner tap on a lettered note than numbered one; I would assume a number just links to a citation, because that's what most of them are. If I see a letter beside something interesting, I check it to see if there's more. I don't check numbers unless I see something dubious or if I'm editing - I don't
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moment because they had the image immediately thrust before them. Nothing is in the way of that same minority clicking for a closer look and getting the same benefit. I could ask you the same question: what damage does it do? A size factor of 1.2 still leaves the image prominent on the page; just as
1138:
Ok, now the article is deleted to basically nothing. The notion of
Microcosm and Macrocosm is so important in ancient philosophy, alchemy, astrology, and medicine. There should be some specific definition of Macrocosm and that of Microcosm, and then talk about how that is related. I just drop off an
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extra information not contained in the article body. Separating these two functions would not just be artificial, it would also be arbitrary. For example, what is currently ref 1 contains an explanation of the terminology and so could be conceived of as a note, but it also refers to Allers 1944 and
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sky and earth. This derives from a cosmological tradition which posited an absolute upper and an absolute lowest part of the cosmos, with the upper parts made of the most subtle (i.e., thin and fine), light, and luminous material, and the lowest part made of the most gross (i.e., thick), heavy, and
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On my 16:9, 13" 1366 x 768 laptop it looks a bit less broad, but still more than broad enough for the text to look nice and attractive. On my 9:16, 8" 1080 x 1920 tablet, it just renders below the text, which is also quite okay. I suspect you have a somewhat larger than average tablet, on which the
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I have a feeling that the image may render very differently on your device than it does at mine (are you on mobile? what is your screen size and aspect ratio? would resolution be relevant?). On my desktop and laptop (a 3840 × 2160 32" 16:9 and a 1366 x 768 13" 16:9) it is (much) more prominent than
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With 'fragments' of presocratic philosophers one always has to be careful to take into account the fact that they are the words of authors who sometimes wrote as much as a millennium later, many of them also quite unreliable. More often than not it's unclear whether it is a paraphrase or an actual
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But you're right that I'm quite familiar with the analogy now: I wrote this wiki article, and in my own original research I mostly deal with historical philosophical texts in which the microcosm-macrocosm analogy is a standard feature. Maybe I am not in a good position to evaluate what the average
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I don't agree that reducing the size to 1.2 is "drastic", given that measure is both above the default and larger than the typical image on
Knowledge. I think 1.2 is fairly large as it is. If anything, enlarging it to double the default in the first place seems drastic. It takes up almost half the
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I see your point about
Democritus being a dubious attribution now, thanks for explaining it! Allers corroborating the attribution of the first *unambiguous* use of the term to Aristotle addresses my concern about the claim as well. As for the more general juxtaposition of microcosm/macrocosm with
3517:
Now
Aristotle's influence is definitely relevant for the history of the microcosm/macrocosm concept, since it are precisely the non- or anti-Aristotelian philosophers who often championed the concept, and there is a clear pattern where the concept was popular among the influential philosophers of
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Without any context, I doubt most would see everything you describe in the image. In-fact, many may not even realise the circles are meant to represent the orbits of celestial bodies; all they would recognise is geometric figures overlayed onto a man who may as well be Da Vinci's
Vitruvian Man. I
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caused the problem to recur. Not sure why the wikilinks were misbehaving in this particular case. Weird thing is when I tried copy-pasting the thumbnail here, it worked fine, then when pasted it back into the article it was broken - even when pasted at another location. Maybe I'm being clumsy or
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On your end, things look very spacious. I can see why you feel doubling the default is no trouble at all. If my end is a worst case, yours seems to be the best case. How would you feel about compromising on 1.5? It would still be larger that a typical sidebar template and therefore hard to miss,
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instructive, and immediately makes some things clear which would be hard to grasp without it. I've read here and there about the microcosm-macrocosm analogy for years without getting a clear grip on what it meant, even as someone with a background in philosophy. This is because the analogy is so
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as its somewhat dubious (not only the broad interpretation, but Aristotle was not dominant until the 13th century in Western Europe, ever in Byzantine philosophy, and arguably only for a couple centuries in Islamic philosophy) and a bit polemical, it isn't supported by Kraemer regardless of the
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celestial spheres, and I've no idea why you're disputing it; the second heaven literally contains the Ptolemaic spheres as a subset, and later descriptions frequently include the empyrean among them as the highest sphere. The Latin terms are linked to translations/explanations; using Latin is a
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is right that the image is not informative. Maybe because nowadays we are used to more "abstract" images. But it doesn't hurt either. For a small subgroup of readers that are striving to understand the topic of the article, it might save them some time, being at 1.8 rather than 1.2. So I lean a
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Regardless, as I said in my edit summary, the utility of the diagram is not diminished by resizing it since a much, much larger version is only 1 click away for anyone interested in a closer look. The 1000+ words are still there; nothing is lost by resizing. I think it's better readers have the
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surrounding it, which are about as large as the text and equally depend on image size to be recognizable. It's also the basic impression of a giant man the size of the cosmos: this is hard to see for most readers anyway given the stark differences between modern and premodern imaginings of the
2006:
I wonder, how does 1.7, or 1.6 look at your screen? From the screenshot at 1.8, I gather that there's just one word from the first paragraph missing, so maybe 1.7 would already meet the desirable and reasonable goal of at least showing the full first paragraph when loading the page?
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in the 9th century until the Renaissance. But of course, this canon itself is the product of a modern (post 17th-century) tradition of scholarly historiographical study, and there are in fact a plethora of medieval philosophers who rejected or even simply ignored Aristotelian
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itself is of undoubted reliability (this may be a problem in CiteHighlighter), but of course encyclopedias in general by their non-specialist/non-secondary nature can sometimes be off the mark. However, in this case the claim is corroborated by other sources; see for example
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I think that the human being and the cosmos might be analogous because both were created by God. However, the former has the soul which was created with His breath by Him, while the latter does not. Thus, we have to be careful to think that they might not be very similar in
1745:) out of a concern to conform to default image sizes on WP and out of a concern for text readability. I've tested it on a few devices, but the image seems to behave well and doesn't get in the way of the text on any device I own. Nevertheless, I set the size at 1.8 (see
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often mentioned without reference to its materialist, indeed often plastic context. The image makes that clear in a fraction of a second: this is not some esoteric abstraction, not some dreamy philosophical poetry, but a very literal, structural and material analogy.
3433:, pp. 320-321: "Aristotle opposes the μάκρος to the μικρὸς κόσμος. L. Stein has suggested that this passage gave rise to the whole microcosmistic speculation. This cannot be the case, since the idea, if not the term, is found with the predecessors of the Stagirite."
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A diagram which is only meaningful to those who read Latin is not instructive, it's distracting, and most readers will find the article itself far more helpful. Anyone who can read it will find a full-sized version is conveniently just 1 click away; the utility is
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reliability of that source, and probably doesn't need to be in a section on Medieval Philosophy if Aristotle isn't the first person to use the term. Plato is probably the philosopher who warrants much more coverage there and earlier as the greatest influence.
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article (the ones cited), that was not even mentioned. Someday someone may expand this article and write something proper about the concept of macranthropy, but they will at the very least need sources connecting it to the concept of microcosm–macrocosm
1957:
Since you said it was fine at 1.2 and agreed that it was not so informative, did you mean to write that you lean towards 1.2? Or was 1.8 intentional? It seems odd to lean towards what's best for a small subgroup rather than the majority of readers.
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dark material. However, some elements of the upper part (mostly the planets and stars) would move through the lower part in a rotating movement, thus also conveying some movement to the lower, darker parts of the cosmos (this was used to explain
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I've implemented this caption and re-implemented the notelist. (I used italics rather than language tags for linked text in the caption because the latter breaks wikilinks; the caption is otherwise unchanged from the most recent proposal.)
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image unfortunately renders in the worst possible way. But actually most people will be looking at it from smartphones and more average-sized tablets, as well as from 16:9 laptops and desktop screens, on which the 1.8 size all looks fine.
1356:, the feet deep in the dark part of the earth, the heart circling in the same orbit as the sun, etc. It immediately gives the reader a feel of what exactly ancient and medieval philosophers meant when they called the cosmos a 'great man' (
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noticed you've been editing this article for some time, so I wonder if your familiarity is making things seem more obvious than they would be for a typical, uninitiated reader and so you may be over-estimating how helpful this diagram is.
3567:. I'd certainly love to read a more in-depth treatment of that myself if you have any recommendations on possible sources for the claim, but I think the sentence as it stands now is fine, it gives something to expand upon in the future.
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1237:
1:2 was sometimes also interpreted along that line. However, please keep in mind that talk pages are not supposed to function as a discussion forum, but should instead be focused on the concrete improvement of articles (see #4 in
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The only thing left to add, which I've neglected to say to avoid starting a tangential discussion, is that I don't think the caption and description on which it's based are quite right. I've started a new section to explain why
2667:, these were thought of as thick, material orbs which by their spherical movement either carried the planets and stars around, or moved other material celestial spheres embedded in them so as to create a combined movement (see
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That's generally a great improvement, but it still needs some fine-tuning. I would speak of "an analogy" rather than "the analogy" (this is Fludd's model only); "correspondences" is superfluous (and perhaps a bit too
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long. It could be made a bit shorter if the attribution to Fludd is moved to an efn (regarding which, I'd like to restore the notelist; I think including notes with the refs is unhelpful and makes them easy to miss).
3358:, preferring to use verb forms such as κατακοσμέω and διακοσμέω, that work is surely is the earliest surviving complete source of the concept, as arguably "microcosm-macrocosm" is the subject of the entire work.
1015:
I love that I went to this page to see what wikipedia had to say and someone was talking about self-similarity aka fractals. it was just missing the pic! I was hoping to find history and a mention of MESO. =)
2557:"The analogy" refers to the article's title, not Fludd's particular illustration of it; if you think that's unclear, the best solution would be to reverse the order, rather than use "an". The three heavens
942:
In paragraph 2, I think we need to explain that Socrates is always a character in Plato's writing - it might be a bit confusing for anyone unfamiliar with Plato's work. This is the sentence I don't like:
3507:), which preceded European scholasticism as the 'major' tradition of Western medieval philosophy. I think it's safe to say that in the Western canon, Aristotle has dominated from the compilation of the
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does not belong in this article in this way at this time. It seems to me that macranthropy may be one ancient subtype of microcosm–macrocosm analogies, but in the sources that I have read when writing
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late antiquity (mainly the Neoplatonists), plunged into obscurity in the Middle Ages, and came back to the fore in the Renaissance and early modern period precisely with the abandonment of Aristotle (
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stub is that it not properly sourced and barely gives more than a dictionary definition. Since there is nothing useful to merge, we could instead redirect it here, but that would tend to violate the
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that at least the terms 'microcosm' and 'macrocosm' are the most common identifiers for this subject. These terms are also used with regard to non-Western versions of the analogy, as for example by
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templates within piped links (as I also did above), and I've never known them to cause problems. Is there any documentation on them breaking wikilinks? Do the wikilinks above not work on your end?
3463:: τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον καὶ ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ μικρῷ κόσμῳ ὄντι κατὰ τὸν Δημόκριτον ταῦτα θεωροῦνται ("these things are also observed in the same manner in man, who is a microcosm according to Democritus").
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has not been redirected here. Did you forget to redirect it, or did you change your mind? In any case I do not agree with redirecting it, and you should probably not be doing this without broader
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While the text is still technically readable, I still find the amount of space it takes up excessive, while at 1.2 it's not nearly so intrusive and is the same size as a typical sidebar template.
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It could well be that the image is primarily useful for those who already have some knowledge of Stoic philosophy, or have read a text of Plato or two. But for those readers, the image really is
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to know why. In general though, outside of specialist sources I tend to find claims that such-and-such was the first to use a greek word are usually false, which is why I always check them in
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And I'll be more careful about LSJ in the future as well - while I was restricting use of it as a "gut check" to remove dubious information rather than citing it as a source (which would be
833:
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2440:; the opposition between the light upper part and the dark lower part is central to the whole way of thinking, so I would include the word "dark". I therefore propose to have it like this:
3344:- the compound word "microcosm" (which I believe would hypothetically be μικρό-κοσμος?) is not attested in Greek. If we're dealing with the use of the separate "μικρῷ κόσμῳ" the term is
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68:
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the concept of an analogy between parts of the human body and parts of the cosmos: the head (which the Stoics called with the same name as they called God, the head and God being the
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by merging these info there. Macranthropy is a more proper term than "microcosm-macrocosm analogy", so I suggest we chuck this article there rather than that article's content here.
2266:
Illustration of an analogy between parts of the human body and parts of the cosmos: the head and the divine heavenly light, the legs and the dark earthy mass, the heart and the sun.
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and the like). It's true that 'the' earth (i.e., where we live) is in the middle, but the entire lower part of the cosmos is also made of an earthy material (Fludd's 'earthy mass',
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running from head-to-toe; for comparison, see another of Fludd's diagrams (right). I'm not suggesting we include all this in the caption, but I wanted to explain my reading of it.
1076:- The article is substandard and needs citations, for example in the list of cultures that "observed the golden ratio in many parts of the ordered universe both large and small"
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quote, and if it's a literal quote it's often doubtful whether the author who provides the quote himself had access to a reliable source (think, in our case for example, about
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important, independent of the specific terminology, but if you expect others to also find the etymological information useful or relevant in this case, then I suppose that it
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the diagram but also understand why it's relevant and recognise its details. I think a good caption would help much more than simply scaling things up a lot more than normal.
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This article has an extreme Western bias. The concept of microcosm/macrocosm is at the heart of traditional Chinese philosophy, completely unrelated to its Greek parallel.
1330:, you should not have re-reverted away from the status quo until consensus is established. It would be nice if you would keep to these established practices in the future!
885:
There are two problems with this page which I don't have time to fix right now. 1. it links to itself 2. it says nothing about the alchemical significance of the two words.
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2691:" for casual readers to make the connection with the Latin text in the diagram, I will not insist on this one. However, let's then be consistent and also speak of the
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on Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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Most of the time they work, but when I copy-pasted the caption as it was the result was broken. Using italics fixed the problem; manually replacing the italics with
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2657:
Okay, let's have two sets of notes; I personally find it confusing to have both letters and numbers appear as notes, but I can see the use that you argue it has.
1233:: the Stoics believed that the cosmos originated from a breath or spirit, which they thought of as the world soul; the spirit of God hovering over the waters in
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1277:
This talk page was a disorganized clutter of comments, many of them unsigned and appearing in no particular order (neither chronological nor logical), so I've
794:, a group of contributors interested in Knowledge's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
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3534:), but I wasn't writing from the sources in this particular case, and anything for which no source is given can be reasonably challenged and removed per
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section headings to most of them and tried to put apparent replies in the section to which they seem to belong. I should also note that this article was
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the layout, but that it is distracting to many readers and that it's not so informative as to warrant such a scale. Still, I've provided a screenshot.
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wants to assert that the current size breaks layout, let's see some screenshots demonstrating that and some suggestions for a different lead image. ~
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The page completely ignores that the Greek concept of mico-macrocosm is in fact an evolution of the idea already existent in its Indo-European roots.
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3121:. I think the only two viable options are to write a reliable sourced section on the concept of macranthropy here in this article and to redirect
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spheres (though the Empyrean and the sublunary heaven do not, or perhaps the Empyrean contains one sphere carrying everything below it), but they
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I have written an article about macrocosm/microcosm. It is at The Free Library. This should be the standard authoritative article on the subject:
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While I'd still prefer ≤1.5, scaling to 1.6 seems like a fair compromise (being the half-way point between 2 and 1.2). If you're fine with that,
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I'll agree to disagree at least on the encyclopedic value of the first use of a particular word - I tend to think the conceptual development is
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may easily be misunderstood as referring to the sphere of the earth itself, so it may be better to translate to "elemental heaven" and link to
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2671:). While the diagram shows the division of the heaven in three sections, these are not celestial spheres as such: as you say, these sections
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if you want other editors' opinions, but in my view it's better to leave that stub be until someone comes along and decides to expand it.
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as a reference for this kind of thing: on Knowledge we should always be looking to actual secondary sources discussing the subject.
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Reversing the order of 'illustration' and analogy breaks the flow and is a bad idea; let's just have "the analogy" then.
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It's true that it's not the text in the image which is important, but the details such as the sun and the heart, or the
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on 21 January 2021, so none of these sections (except the last one above) apply to the current version of the article.
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To be clear, I did not suggest cutting it down to standard size; I only argued for upscaling it by a smaller factor.
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is arguing the illustration alone, regardless of the text, is especially informative. My argument is not that it
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it was a later addition to those works but that's something I feel always requires additional qualification).
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If you're still not convinced then I think we do need a third opinion, because I'm not sure what more to say.
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3589:(e.g. sometimes people claim a word occurring in the Odyssey/Iliad was first used by somebody else. which...
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page link to various versions of the concept, and I would prefer to also keep that page for the time being.
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Hi car chasm! Thanks for opening this thread, and please accept my apologies for my bad-humored tone in my
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Shäfer, Peter (2004). "In Heaven as It Is in Hell". In Boustan, Ra'anan S.; Reed, Annette Yoshiko (eds.).
3538:. So if you believe the article would be better off without the sentence, please feel free to remove it.
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of this subject, while 'Macranthropy' is obscure and vague. See, for example, Google Scholar results for
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The reason why a separate note list is not needed and would even be confusing is that this article uses
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Yeah, that's pretty bad. But just look at how the 1.8 size renders at my 16:9, 32", 3840 x 2160 screen:
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model, apparently developed into a hybrid geocentric model (i.e., incorporating the idea of rotating
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especially so if given a somewhat longer, more explanatory caption which invites readers to not just
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34, who actually speaks about microcosm in his own words and only attributes the idea to Democritus
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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3404:'Microcosm' in ancient Greek is in two words μικρὸς κόσμος (or in a Stoic passage referred to by
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article is in a terrible state and linking to it would obscure more than clarify (pun intended);
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Even the planetary spheres are constituted of sub-spheres accounting for epicycles etc. and the
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When I rewrote this article in January 2021, I purposefully set the lead image size at 2 (like
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rather than the other way around. Thanks again for collaborating on creating a great caption!
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Good job everybody. This discussion could be an example of how discussions should be. Cheers.
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citing a source that macranthropy effectively is a subtype of microcosm–macrocosm analogies,
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in general, and his cosmology in particular, absolutely was dominant in Arabic philosophy (
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I would think that Lord of the Flies is a strong, obvious and well-known modern microcosm.
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elemental heaven; between the legs and the dark earthy mass which supports this universe.
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with regard to Chinese philosophy. Apart from that, I think that it is good to have the
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I have improved the caption as there appeared to be consensus that would be helpful. ~
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or 'leading part' of man and cosmos, respectively) up there in the sky underneath the
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The legibility of the text isn't relevant here because (1.) it's in Latin and (2.)
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sun; if you think no such emphasis is needed, I don't mind delinking. How about? -
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Illustration of the analogy in the correspondences between the human body and the
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I didn't follow up in Kraemer at first, as it looks like Kraemer is redlisted by
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That sounds plausible, but I still think the caption could be better. How about:
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for the majority of readers, there wont be any meaningful difference, I guess.
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The reason why the image is instructive is not its Latin text, but the way it
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3046:(19 results). It's also pretty plain from the book and article titles in our
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something is glitchy on my end; try yourself and see if it renders properly.
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Sorry, I ahve not redirected yet. Sure, greater publicising could be done.
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model which was dominant in the Middle Ages, and like many other thinkers,
2046:. I think we can delist this from the active list the 3rd opinion page now.
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I'm sorry, but the unsourced/badly sourced, vague, and undue content form
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The light and dark regions of diagram are not the sky and earth but day (
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Allers explicitly says that the term is not found before Aristotle. The
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Aristotle, I'll trust your expertise that it's probably verifiable in
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heaven, closest to the divine light of God; between the chest and the
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Monochord; note the astronomical symbols, sun's orbit, and fixed stars
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Should be some specific definition of Macrocosm and that of Microcosm
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911:- alchemy is mentioned in the article, I'm presuming you edited it?
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On the subject, i think the whole sentence here should be removed:
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might be a word not everyone understands; "terrestrial sphere" for
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with the compromise of setting it at 1.6. I removed this from the
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the size of the lead image depicting a macro-cosmic man, writing:
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Human being and the cosmos might not be very similar in structure
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Heavenly Realms and Earthly Realities in Late Antique Religions
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Though I think "empyrean" and "aetherial" are close enough to "
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you can find more material to edit this material for sure.
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Illustration of the analogy between the human body and a
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Illustration of an analogy between the human body and a
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Anyways, that's how I see it. Maybe we should ask for a
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rather than Latin terms (most people don't understand "
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sects, as well as in medieval Hermetic texts like the
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superlunary world, consisting of a fifth element)....
2971:. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 269–271.
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Size of the lead image depicting a macro-cosmic man
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3452:(6th century; our article is problematic: compare
2581:The analogy illustrated in the human body and the
3750:Low-importance Classical Greece and Rome articles
2264:Perhaps the way to fix this is to change it into
57:for general discussion of the article's subject.
3755:All WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome pages
808:Knowledge:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
3650:Mid-importance philosophy of religion articles
2217:65:12), just like the upper part consists of '
1542:I'm on a tablet and at 1.8 it looks like this:
811:Template:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
2509:thereby supports the main text speaking of a
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3095:Noted. I agree. Instead, What about merging
2196:Actually, it's probably both day and night,
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3259:article, as long as there is no content in
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1167:Talk pages are not a blog's comment section
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3680:Mid-importance Ancient philosophy articles
3665:Mid-importance Eastern philosophy articles
3655:Philosophy of religion task force articles
3240:. To repeat what I said in my edsums here:
2824:thanks for that, it's really awesome now!
2364:It's a bit longer, but I don't think it's
1390:text space, and jams the lead to one side.
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1057:Agreed. Hence the below merger proposal.
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2255:was probably using elements from both.
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2710:cosmos: the head is analogous to the
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1400:choice of whether to zoom in or not.
791:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
7:
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2754:; the legs to the dark earthy mass (
2412:", but do understand "heaven"); the
1917:little bit towards the 1.8 version.
1322:, I feel I should tell you that per
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1113:Macrocosm/Microcosm in Doric Thought
788:This article is within the scope of
699:This article is within the scope of
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3660:C-Class Eastern philosophy articles
3635:Mid-importance metaphysics articles
231:It is of interest to the following
47:for discussing improvements to the
3625:Mid-importance Philosophy articles
3129:page as it is for the time being.
2998:Proposed merge of this article to
2832:One thing though: I regularly use
2221:'. This ultimately derives from a
1119:I hope this clears up some issues.
1104:New article on Macrocosm/microcosm
814:Classical Greece and Rome articles
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3329:Microcosm in Greek and Aristotle.
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3119:principle of least astonishment
1562:File:Screenshot micro-macro.png
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3040:"macrocosm-microcosm analogy"
3036:"microcosm-macrocosm analogy"
3022:16:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
2276:This is of course borderline
2166:) which statuminate/prop-up (
1849:above the man's head and the
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1032:09:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
1008:00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
982:14:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
719:Knowledge:WikiProject Judaism
713:and see a list of open tasks.
617:Template:WikiProject Theology
608:and see a list of open tasks.
519:and see a list of open tasks.
66:Put new text under old text.
3630:C-Class metaphysics articles
3149:18:21, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
3125:to it, or to just leave the
3109:13:09, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
1097:23:51, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
1053:03:27, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
875:16:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
722:Template:WikiProject Judaism
525:Knowledge:WikiProject Occult
3715:WikiProject Occult articles
3620:C-Class Philosophy articles
3269:Microcosm–macrocosm analogy
3261:Microcosm–macrocosm analogy
2697:and explicitly mention the
1489:the sake of a minority who
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1262:09:54, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
1207:07:50, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
1178:15:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
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528:Template:WikiProject Occult
74:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
49:Microcosm–macrocosm analogy
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3603:19:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
2158:described as two columns (
1129:20:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
1115:online at The Free Library
834:project's importance scale
745:project's importance scale
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551:project's importance scale
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3720:C-Class Theology articles
3558:14:09, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
3448:B34, which is taken from
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2722:of God; the chest to the
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3171:Hi FatalSubjectivities,
3157:. I am redirecting now.
2987:Utriusque cosmi historia
2358:Utriusque cosmi historia
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905:16:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
32:
3705:C-Class Occult articles
3271:in my view. Take it to
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3153:I think this would not
2470:heaven occupied by the
369:Associated task forces:
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1283:rewritten from scratch
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411:Philosophy of religion
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313:WikiProject Philosophy
221:This article is rated
99:avoid personal attacks
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3113:The problem with the
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124:Neutral point of view
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2738:is analogous to the
2613:is analogous to the
2348:is analogous to the
2044:I think this settled
1725:Summary by Apaugasma
1273:Refactored talk page
597:WikiProject Theology
129:No original research
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3209:FatalSubjectivities
3159:FatalSubjectivities
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3014:FatalSubjectivities
2663:With regard to the
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2174:) at right angles (
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459:Medieval philosophy
338:Philosophy articles
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508:WikiProject Occult
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443:Ancient philosophy
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427:Eastern philosophy
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323:general discussion
227:content assessment
110:dispute resolution
71:
3469:pseudo-Democritus
3052:Raphals 2015–2020
2732:classical planets
2718:, closest to the
2665:celestial spheres
2607:classical planets
2595:, closest to the
2583:celestial spheres
2472:classical planets
2402:celestial spheres
2342:classical planets
2330:, closest to the
2318:celestial spheres
2278:original research
2227:celestial spheres
2176:ad angulos rectus
2170:) this universe (
1318:! With regard to
1269:
1268:
1193:comment added by
1100:
1083:comment added by
1022:comment added by
984:
972:comment added by
949:See what I mean?
917:comment added by
891:comment added by
861:comment added by
851:Lord of the Flies
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2623:sublunary sphere
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2460:geocentric model
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2726:cœlum æthereum
2714:cœlum empyreum
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2609:, wherein the
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2734:(wherein the
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2567:refer to the
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2219:seven heavens
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2165:
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2157:
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2150:) and night (
2149:
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2132:
2130:
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2126:
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1735:Vitruvian Man
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1720:Third opinion
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1454:third opinion
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1358:makranthropos
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1340:undiminished.
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3595:- car chasm
3528:Hermeticism
3473:this source
3444:is in fact
3431:Allers 1944
3418:microcosmus
3384:- car chasm
3255:As for the
3155:wp:astonish
2965:See, e.g.,
2704:Like this:
2515:great order
2511:small order
2426:over-linked
2406:use English
2233:Jewish and
2207:hot springs
2160:duæ columnæ
1903:3rd Opinion
1362:insan kabir
1354:name of God
1350:hegemonikon
1346:illustrates
1240:WP:NOTFORUM
1225:Please see
1169:applies. --
1002:—Preceding
968:—Preceding
395:Metaphysics
257:Metaphysics
172:free images
55:not a forum
3614:Categories
3514:cosmology.
3438:Democritus
3414:olam katan
3350:Democritus
3252:analogies.
3181:WP:APPNOTE
2954:References
2708:geocentric
2587:geocentric
2571:heart and
2360:, 1617–21.
2322:geocentric
2223:flat earth
1901:Here from
1279:just added
1187:structure.
1144:HillmanHan
958:Moonpilot
329:Philosophy
318:philosophy
252:Philosophy
3543:Apaugasma
3536:WP:BURDEN
3497:al-Farabi
3342:this edit
3336:Apaugasma
3280:Apaugasma
3188:Apaugasma
3134:Apaugasma
3063:Apaugasma
3010:WP:WEIGHT
2927:Apaugasma
2857:Apaugasma
2769:Apaugasma
2689:aethereum
2522:Apaugasma
2480:sublunary
2468:aetherial
2285:Apaugasma
2245:Ptolemaic
2203:volcanism
2180:monochord
2084:Apaugasma
2038:Apaugasma
2012:Apaugasma
1953:Cinadon36
1859:Apaugasma
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953:Moonpilot
919:Moonpilot
800:talk page
112:if needed
95:Be polite
45:talk page
3583:WP:SYNTH
3505:Averroes
3501:Avicenna
3493:al-Kindi
3401:earlier.
3346:attested
3299:alright
3028:Bad idea
2685:empyreum
2478:and the
2464:empyrean
2114:Comment:
1215:Ruby2021
1203:contribs
1195:Ruby2021
1191:unsigned
1093:contribs
1081:unsigned
1020:unsigned
970:unsigned
938:Socrates
927:contribs
915:unsigned
901:contribs
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871:contribs
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611:Theology
602:Theology
574:Theology
273:Medieval
261:Religion
80:get help
53:This is
51:article.
3355:Timaeus
3235:Undone
2746:to the
2744:abdomen
2742:); the
2687:" and "
2673:contain
2621:to the
2619:abdomen
2573:literal
2569:literal
2476:abdomen
2430:abdomen
2119:Cinadon
2073:I agree
1983:Cinadon
1920:Cinadon
1335:reduced
1235:Genesis
1121:WHEELER
1085:Txensen
1004:undated
832:on the
743:on the
716:Judaism
707:Judaism
663:Judaism
638:on the
549:on the
356:on the
269:Ancient
265:Eastern
223:C-class
178:WP refs
166:scholar
3591:maybe
3520:Ficino
3479:&
3399:revert
3099:here?
2897:Scyrme
2837:transl
2820:Scyrme
2801:Scyrme
2636:Scyrme
2617:; the
2371:Scyrme
2184:Scyrme
2079:list.
2052:Scyrme
2050:below.
2002:Scyrme
1976:Scyrme
1960:Scyrme
1912:Scyrme
1880:Scyrme
1825:Scyrme
1812:Scyrme
1808:breaks
1779:Scyrme
1694:Scyrme
1584:Scyrme
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1402:Scyrme
1328:WP:QUO
1324:WP:BRD
1316:Scyrme
1314:Hello
1213:Hello
1171:Calton
994:Sp!der
522:Occult
513:occult
485:Occult
229:scale.
150:Google
3587:WP:RS
3576:does
3572:more
3565:WP:RS
3481:Kranz
3477:Diels
3450:David
3406:Philo
3221:Done
2981:From
2736:heart
2631:would
2611:heart
2585:of a
2418:heart
2410:cœlum
2346:heart
2320:of a
2253:Fludd
2229:) by
2215:Quran
1851:glory
1491:might
193:JSTOR
154:books
108:Seek
3599:talk
3549:talk
3532:WP:V
3388:talk
3305:talk
3286:talk
3249:this
3227:talk
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