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it's not practical to sample half a line. According to a presumably credible source the NTSC SD digital television standard (some SMPTE standard?) states 483 lines tall ( but I can't find justification or second source for this). Not aware of any broadcast standard ever calling it 480 lines. Clearly DVDs contain 480 lines, but that's not broadcast, that's consumer grade. Over-the-air NTSC may have content stored in cut-rate methods at 480 lines, but the SD 480i signal clearly can support the historical and documented 485 lines of active picture area, as can broadcast quality recording equipment.
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pixels, and thus that the picture area is being cropped horizontally as well as vertically. There is ample documentation about D1 video, and the active picture is 710.85x485 pixels in that format being exactly 4:3 aspect ratio, or 16:9 widescreen. However, there are other standards which may be contradictory. The 4CIF frame is defined as 704x480 at 4:3 aspect ratio, but this is a videoconferencing standard, not a broadcasting or consumer electronics standard.
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criticized for selling HDTVs with glass less than the full HD size, figuring since they were using overscan anyway, save a few bucks by not having all the pixels physically there. Bottom line, HDTVs never were and are not now "ideally" overscan-free, the standards haven't changed. Overscan is not a 'terrible' waste, it allows sloppy conversion, various cruft around the edges like uncertain start and stop of program content, which happen at the source.
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the entire 1280x720 digitized frame to the viewer. They actually scale--this is very evident when driving an HDTV from a computer and the borders are missing--and some brands can turn off overscan so the entire 1280x720 frame appears to the viewer. (Are they putting 1280x720 pixels on a 1280x720 glass at that point, or downscaling slightly to fit 1280x720 content to a smaller than 1280x720 pixel glass?)
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edges of the screen. The VBI happens when the beams are blanked; it's during the vertical retrace interval. Therefore, any data (including
Teletext) that's sent during the VBI cannot happen during overscan. I didn't want to change the text yet, however (even if Knowledge (XXG) speaks of "merciless editing"! So far, I'm too merciful.) Regards,
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also a useful feature on CRT monitors, not only when they are used as TV replacement with a PC and a {{TV tuner card]]: I also use it in
Windows (I have just a few lines and pixels outside the viewable are, because these don't contain any useful information anymore, just window borders (when using fullscreen windows) and the part of the
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might be (nearly) exactly 4:3. The 720x480 frame definitely is not 4:3 or 16:9, unless it is from a source using the DV codec (such as a camcorder), then the 720x480 frame is indeed exactly 4:3 or 16:9. Most HDTVs whether CRT or LCD employ overscan so that less than the entire 1920x1080 is visible to the viewer.
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It may not be obvious to consumers, but overscan is part of the HD standard, and HDTVs have overscan. In fact, it was considered mildly scandalous when
Samsung was revealed to be making glass that is smaller than 1280 x 720 pixels because HDTVs, not just theirs, employ overscan and project less than
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the display! Everyone knows there is no «extra» in an image going into a computer display, and when swapping it with a TV results in chopped edges, that's obviously the TV's fault. Nikevich's explanation «… aims the beams beyond the visible edges» would be a better intro, and even hints at the origin
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Technically, the vertical blanking interval (VBI) is independent of whether as display is overscanned or not. In CRT terms (which have considerable influence on current terms and thinking), overscanning occurs only after the beams are unblanked; the deflection system aims the beams beyond the visible
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It is indeed uncertain regarding the 4:3 ratio and 480 line video. The NTSC analog picture area is defined as 52.6555 microseconds (710.85 pixels when sampled at 13.5 MHz) wide x 485 lines (858 pixels per total line for 525 lines, storing 720 pixels per line for 486 lines). If one scales this down
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This is just the default configuration, all CRT monitors I used yet have controls to adjust the image size and all of them actually can also do overscan, because they all overscan when the image size is set to maximum (and they all underscan a lot when the image size is stet to minimum). Overscan is
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Both documentation of the DV codec and empirical tests demonstrate that the DV format creates a frame size of 720x480 (and not 704x480) pixels exactly 4:3 narrowscreen or 16:9 widescreen. When digitized, the pixel aspect ratio for NTSC 4:3 content is very nearly 10:11 for digital video--other than
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It could be the case that obsessively-exact downscaling of HD content to widescreen SD (e.g. DVD) would resize the 1920x1080 source material to 710.85x485 and then crop height to 480, and crop to 704 width or pad to 720 width. Or alternatively just resize to 704x480 knowing it will be close enough
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The 525-line system contains 485 lines of picture content. The picture content begins in the middle of the 20th line of the top field, and ends in the middle of the last line of the bottom field. The active picture area is 485 lines tall for D1 sampled analog. Thus 486 lines are sampled, because
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I'm sorry to disappoint you all, but sadly although you may intuitively expect a digital medium such as modern HD sources to display in 1:1 pixel mapping with modern digital displays, in reality it is not the case. The citation from the original version of the article covered the point adequately.
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The reader comes first. It is tempting to show off your technical or literary skills, but readers who get lost in the first few paragraphs won't skip further down or click on links - they'll go back to google and find something written for THEM. For articles with a wide range of possible readers,
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is the area in which you can expect the customer to see action. However the transmitted image may extend to the edges of the MPEG frame 720x576. This presents a requirement unique to television, where an image with reasonable quality is expected to exist where (some) customers won't see it. This
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The take-away from this is that SD, ED and HDTVs all employ overscan. The 1920x1080 and 1280x720 frames have exactly 16:9 aspect ratio. The 13.5 MHz sample rate digitized analog NTSC widescreen 710.85x485 frame has exactly 16:9 aspect ratio (and the narrowscreen, exactly 4:3). The 704x480 frame
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problems, because many CRTs have unfixable convergence errors, which are worst at the far edge of the image and get much better just a few pixels or lines away, this doesn't depend on the actual position on the screen on the CRTs I used, only on how many pixels or lines it is away from the edge of
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Also, I feel that as many LCD panels designed to function as HDTV displays may be set to overscan even digital inputs like DVI (my Sanyo LCD set unfortunately won't even display its native resolution without scaling it so that it can overscan, and has no consumer available options to disable such;
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One can get close to 1:1 mapping with an analogue signal where the panel supports it, but there will perhaps always exist some "bleeding" between adjacent horizontal pixels (ie. a neighbouring pixels on a scanline) but is this even relevant to an article specially on overscan? (I tend to think not
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Yeah, actually I think you're wrong. The whole point of technical material on
Knowledge (XXG) is that the technical parts are linked. Anyone who doesn't understand something can either skip over it if it's not important to them, or they can look into it just by clicking. For this reason I think
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is one of the basics of video, so anyone who could understand things like timebase, geometry, and linearity would already know what overscan is. People looking up overscan in wikipedia are probably hobbyists who can't figure out why their TV keeps cutting off the sides of the graphics they did on
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Yes,it needs a rewrite. Many modern TV's (my
Pioneer and Panasonic for example) have a 'dot for dot' mode, ie no overscan. I use this all the time, for broadcast HD, and for BluRay and the edges are usually clean. The picture benefits by gaining resolution and avoiding the slight loss involved in
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Read carefully. If the above refers to your edit note about CRTs, the article didn't site CRTs as the cause, it said vacuum tubes. This would include the tubes in the timing circuits. In the next section, CRT is shorthand for "TVs using CRTs". And even today they do drift - you can go into any
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Regarding whether the 8 pixels on either side of the 704 pixel wide picture area should be black rather than containing program material, ITU BT.601-7 depicts blanking to exist in the 138 samples other than the 720 samples of program information. The entire 720 pixels are an oversampling of the
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However, this scaling could simply be a misunderstanding. Just as active picture area is tossed out vertically when cropping from 485 lines to 480 lines, it could also be the case that the 704 pixel width was picked simply because it is the closest modulo 16 width to the picture width of 710.85
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True that most (not all) modern LCD and plasma TVs optionally support a no overscan mode. But this is not the standard mode. HDTVs out of the box use overscan--the viewer is not seeing all 1920x1080 pixels of content. This is obvious the first time you plug a laptop into an HDTV. Samsung was
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This needs a rewrite. The citation doesn't support the claims at all. It only says HDTVs commonly had overscan back in 2002. CRT HDTVs were common at that point. It never says HDTVs are ideally supposed to be like this, much less gives figures as to how much overscan there should be. I've found
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that recorded on a camcorder using the DV codec; the pixel aspect ratio for NTSC 4:3 content is 8:9 (640:720) for the DV codec. Video recorded on a camcorder in DV format should be resized from 720x480 to 704x480 when converting to DVD content, whether 4:3 narrowscreen or 16:9 widescreen.
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Actually, for all practical purposes, "auto-setup" will make a one-to-one correspondnace between software pixels and the real LCD screen pixels. Howver, a one-to-one correspondance is impossible if the video card pixel resolution setting does not match the native LCD pixel resolution.
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resampling (it makes no sense to have a 1920x1080 'full HD' TV and then resample a section of the transmitted image). Overscan is a terrible waste of available resolution, and will surely disappear as analog TV disappears. To say that it is still necessary is misleading. --
886:. Feel free to delete the stuff off this page now, because everything on here was copied into that page, plus some tiny additions I made. But also feel free to reintegrate the two pages; I don't mind which way this goes, as long as the info is somewhere.
830:(later) I've just looked at it again; there really isn't anything technical in the new version. If you don't know what geometry or linearity are you need to take some English lessons. What's more, the old version you restored is actually wrong!
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An image captured at 720x576 (with 4:3 content) generally looks like cropping to 658x540 when you account for what a CRT TV would remove from the edges. However, remember to scale this to 720x540 to restore 4:3 ratio (thanks to non-square pixels)
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That's not quite accurate. Horizontal deflections continue during vertical blanking. In fact, about 20 lines are traced out as the beam flies back to the top. The overscan in either direction is maintained, albeit with no visible image produced.
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The removed material has been flagged as requiring a citation for some while. No citation has been forthcoming (and probably never will as none is likely to exist as the contribution was totally incorect). Removal of uncited material is
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to 480 lines, that is 703.52 pixels wide, comfortably close to the standard frame size of 704x480, which possibly suggests that 704x480 pixels might have the (nearly) exact display aspect ratio of 4:3 standard or 16:9 widescreen.
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Empirical tests using multiple brands of consumer grade DVD players demonstrate that DVDs encoded with frame sizes of either 720x480 or 704x480 both display the centered 704x480 element at the same aspect ratio.
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which is below the taskbands and all icons) and in games (because the boarder of the image is impossible to get straight, so it looks more square when you use overscan and you don't loose much of the
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When a display is set to "underscan", it displays the "overscan" area. When a display is set to "overscan", it doesn't display the "overscan" area. "Overscan" is therefore a fairly confusing word.
977:: Agreed, topics are fundamentally different (although there is some confusion in both which shoudl be cleaned up). Both pages can be structured with "newbie overview", and "deep technical". --
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both which I am led to believe is rather common among cheaper panels). In light of this I find the section may be misleading and have added a citation needed tag to the preceding sentences.
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How about creating a single comprehensive article on all topics eliminating redundancy while having multiple very short articles for all terms in question with links to the bigger one?
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The section has been changed since I wrote this. The current section seem to be talking about display of SD material on an HD set, but is confusing mainyl because it doesn't say this.
849:(four tildes). This will insert your name and timestamp. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes). Otherwise it can get confusing where one comment stops and another starts.
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Overscan means the edges of the image go outside the edges of the screen. The overscan area of the picture is the part that is gets overscanned, ie put out of the visible image.
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752:, analogue systems count the lines not used for visible picture, whereas the digital systems only bother to encode (and compress) content that may contain something to see.
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352x576 in MPEG-2 and 352x288 in MPEG-1 are derived from 704. This makes sense in NTSC land (704x480) but because PAL is 702, the difference is undefined. SDTV is messy.
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As you can see, "14:9" provides a lot less wastage for 16:9 viewers — that extra 5% real-estate looks a lot better for corner logos, watermarks and scrolling news tickers.
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Zero overscan is ideal and correct. The section doesn't look that all confusing either; perhaps you need just a tiny bit of technical insight in order to understand?
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Digital foundations to most storage and transmission systems since the early 1990s have meant that analogue NTSC has only been expected to have 480 lines of picture.
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710.85 pixel wide picture area. No standard requires the 8 pixels on either side of the 704 pixels to be blacked out vs containing actual captured program content.
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How this affects the interpretation of "the 4:3 ratio" as equal to 704x480 or 704x486 is unclear, but the VGA standard of 640x480 has had a large impact.
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4:3 viewers get an automatic 4.1% added to both vertical figures thanks to 14:9's thin black bars — this is why 0% and 1.5% safe areas are acceptable.
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As such the
Datacasting section is somewhat misleading, as data is sent in the VBI, not parts of the visible picture usually obscured by overscan. --
995:. Imagine how much more confusing it would be for someone to type "title safe" and be redirected to "overscan." Heck, I would even advocate splitting
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Exactly, it causes blurring. That is why all good HD displays use 1:1 pixel mapping. Actually if the stream is marked as "show overscan", overscan
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Be polite. The object of wikipedia is to get articles that everyone agrees on, so comments like "it sucks" aren't helpful for building consensus.
737:) 540x480 and 480x480 are derived from 720x480, and defined as the same width as 720. 540 vs 544 is undefined (but divides into 16 neatly).
730:) 540x576 and 480x576 are derived from 720x576, and defined as the same width as 720. 540 vs 544 is undefined (but divides into 16 neatly).
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your reversion was a very poor decision. What's more, I don't think there was even anything particularly technical in the new version.
708:) 704 is the width of analogue, not digital; the definition of what is 4:3, and what is 16:9, derives from here (704 can be either).
701:) 702 is the width of analogue, not digital; the definition of what is 4:3, and what is 16:9, derives from here (702 can be either).
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and overscan not completely separate things. VBI lines, are not part of the visible picture and therefore not part of the overscan.
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Nevertheless, expectations for wastage and bad quality of the overscan area were far lower before the era of digital subsystems.
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on
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763:) line areas therefore contain even more to overscan, which can be seen when vertical hold is lost and the picture rolls.
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Sorry about the revert, 217.162.118.129, but I feel that you went much too technical with the article to be useful.
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It's not useful to vaguely say something is wrong - you need to quote exactly what the problem is in the discussion.
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There is no hard technical spec for overscan amounts. Some say 5%, some say 10%, and the figure can be doubled for
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The latest version addresses my concern, so I'll go with it. Since you are new to wikipedia, here are some tips:
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blanking as you claim but a requirement of
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plenty of tech review sites that imply zero overscan is correct. Can anyone find one that outright says it?
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and normally no menus or icons are placed at the outer edge of the screen in games). And it also reduces
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CRTs made for computer display are set to underscan with an adjustable border, usually colored black.
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720 is used to record analogue to digital safely, in case it shifts sideways, which it will.
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This is the rule of thumb to simulate CRT TV viewing, when using PC video capture:
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for viewing enjoyment. Resizing to 720 width could cause visible distortion.
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it is best to start simple and get into details further down in the article.
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The 525-line system originally contained 486 lines of picture, not 480.
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be used, when marked as "crop everscan" it signals that the display is
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Horizontally, the difference between 702/704 and 720 is referred to as
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their computer, so that is the audience we should be writing for.
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actually say 3.5% / 5% (see p21, p19). The following is a summary:
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is a generic term for the above two, and could mean either one.
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Here is the big part I pulled, lets fix it here and restore it.
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OK I've decided to 'be bold' and created a separate page at
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reworking of the article and removal of disinformation
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1351:So, what do you guys think of
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1225:Agreed. Please also see the
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19:This is the
1436:convergence
1395:Datacasting
1174:GraYoshi2x►
1051:—Preceding
1024:—Preceding
1005:action safe
993:Don't merge
975:Don't merge
950:Don’t merge
772:datacasting
759:) and 525 (
680:safe action
676:Action safe
661:Terminology
563:horizontal
557:horizontal
547:Title Safe
527:action safe
397:old version
284:Electronics
272:electronics
228:Electronics
148:free images
31:not a forum
1509:Categories
1201:Memestream
1127:definition
1030:91.94.14.1
1001:title safe
843:talk pages
813:"Overscan"
785:480 vs 486
670:safe title
666:Title safe
523:title safe
517:Tech Specs
347:photograph
1357:ὁ οἶστρος
1231:ὁ οἶστρος
1227:next item
997:safe area
979:Uplinkguy
954:safe area
934:myself).
755:The 625 (
560:vertical
554:vertical
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1295:must not
1091:Nikevich
1065:contribs
1057:Rvam1378
1053:unsigned
1026:unsigned
958:overscan
845:useing
602:16:9 HD
585:16:9 SD
477:960x540
474:658x540
471:720x540
468:658x540
460:800x450
457:660x450
454:600x450
451:660x450
440:crop to
434:crop to
355:included
351:Overscan
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
25:Overscan
1441:MrBurns
1428:taskbar
1408:Fursday
1299:allowed
1136:Anordal
1131:done by
926:Scetpfe
837:Always
687:TV safe
568:4:3 SD
311:on the
199:C-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
900:Trakon
888:Whophd
648:17.5%
642:15.0%
631:12.5%
625:10.0%
597:10.0%
509:, and
387:Upload
378:Flickr
205:scale.
126:Google
999:into
645:5.0%
639:3.5%
628:1.5%
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574:3.3%
571:3.5%
427:16:9
343:image
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1497:talk
1445:talk
1385:talk
1361:talk
1355:? –
1333:talk
1310:talk
1266:talk
1235:talk
1229:. –
1205:talk
1190:talk
1160:talk
1140:talk
1125:The
1111:talk
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1082:talk
1061:talk
1034:talk
1013:talk
1003:and
983:talk
966:talk
960:. —
941:Nat
904:talk
870:Algr
847:~~~~
841:(on
818:Algr
761:NTSC
735:NTSC
706:NTSC
532:The
424:4:3
368:The
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1432:FOV
1401:VBI
1373:not
757:PAL
748:In
728:PAL
699:PAL
678:or
668:or
513:).
372:or
353:be
349:of
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303:Low
176:TWL
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