Talk:LGBT representation in hip hop music

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analysis of the topic. The page itself only began in October 2020 so there has not been a ton of revisions and added content in comparison to other wikipedia pages. In particular the sources on the topic mainly come from news or non-academic sources focusing on pop-culture. The majority of sources come from hip hop news cites. While they do have a strong knowledge of hip hop, it would have been nice to see sources from scholars. The majority of articles also come from after 2010 and focus on recent developments by artists and hip hop as a whole. There are no articles related to LGBTQ influences in earlier hip hop before the 1990s except in regards to anti-homosexual lingo. The sources also primarily deal with anti-homosexual lingo rather than anti-lesbian or transphobia in hip-hop which is just as prevalent. The article itself was relatively balanced in its approach to the topic utilizing viewpoints from people in the LGBTQ and hip hop communities. The article did provide some quotes from rappers who expressed concerns regarding homophobia in hip hop but demonstrated their own fear of coming out against what was scene as the mainstream culture. The article does not provide a great deal of criticism regarding the recent applications of inclusivity in hip hop and possible commercial uses in the industry. They briefly discuss Nicki Minaj and her uses of homosexuality as a marketing tool but barely provide any evidence to back up their claim. The article failed to discuss female artists and their views on the industry of LGBTQ persons and primarily dealt with just homophobia. There were no images included or links to well know videos readily available for the reader. The discussion page for the article further demonstrates the inconsistencies in the article. There have been multiple instances of artists being included as gay or advocates for the movement when in reality they are not. It was even raised that as they try to correct incorrect statements on the article people continuously alter it to spread misinformation. Overall, I thought the article was helpful to the average reader looking to learn a little more about the interaction between the hip hop and LGBTQ communities but begins to fall apart the deeper you dive in. I think this is a good starting point for the topic but needs further research and clarification. I also believe the article should be turned into two different wikipedia pages with one focusing on homophobia in hip hop wile the other focuses on LGBTQ rappers in the industry.

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little space other artists take up who arguably should be discussed in as much depth (see previous two entries above)? Would it be worthwhile to cut it down, and perhaps merge the contents of this section with related content elsewhere? I'm thinking it could be made into one paragraph or short subsection in the Evolution section, giving one or two examples of his lyrics and then describing how Eminem eventually apologized for using homophobia slurs in his music (detailed in the "2000s-present" subsection).

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anymore. And so many bands "cross over" from one genre to another, or incorporate multiple genres into their music, or invent their own neologistic genre terms for themselves, rather than feeling like they fit into any one specific genre. (I absolutely sympathize with the artists who feel that the term pigeonholes them and don't want to be limited in that way, but that's a complaint shared by virtually all musicians in virtually all "genres", and isn't at all unique to the LGBT hip hop community.)

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mention the pervasiveness of lesbophobia, nor did it give any substantive space to discuss the presence of (queer) female hip hop artists and their representation in the genre. Before this addition, Missy Elliott, Nicki Minaj, and Syd were never mentioned, and Young M.A. was only mentioned once in passing. I deleted the "Later negative representation" sub-section from under the

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being gay, being gay is part of their lyrics and style, and that is a unifying factor. I don't read that sentence as meaning that all gay rappers only rap about being gay, rather it's saying that LGBT hip hop is not a single genre like Crunk or Gansta or something. Music genres are always very hard to define, and this one is especially broad.

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like an afterthought. More space should be given to prominent queer female artists, like Queen Latifah, Young M.A., Syd, or others, for instance. I attempted to address this content gap with the "Negative representation of women and homosexuality" section I added, but I think the "Evolution" section is a great place to expound upon the more

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That's a valid point, and the sentence could be rephrased, but I don't think it should be removed. If there isn't some commonality among LGTB hip hop artists, then what exactly do the terms (LGBT hip hop, homo hop, and queer hip hop) actually mean? While I agree that gay rappers do not only rap about

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It says that Frank Ocean is openly gay (true) but does not indicate any affiliation with 'homo hop' movement. Is he automatically affiliated via being boh homosexual and a hip hop artist? Did he claim membership in the movement? Is it not possible for a heterosexual person to be a part of the homo

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The articles does include relevant information for the topic although I do not know if the group from our class has added information. I don't believe there are any distractions but the article does need more information to be more focused. The article is neutral does not really have viewpoints the

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say, that he considered himself as bisexual and not as gay. Bisexuality includes beeing attracted to male and to female persons and thus it does not matter whether he had a girlfriend or not for beeing listed in this article. He is named a representing artist of LGBTQ. In my opinion your comment is

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This is a new section I added to discuss the specific challenges queer female hip hop artists face and bring light to how and why misogyny and homophobia are so ingrained within the hip hop genre. The motivation for this addition was the glaring content gap I noticed in the article--nowhere did it

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It is odd that there is a whole list of "notable artists" in the genre of LGBT hip hop but no kind of description linking their work to the genre. Most of the artists on the lists have a link to some kind of biography but the biographies often do not explain why the artists are so "notable" in the

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an artist, not on what an artist says about themselves. For instance, we don't create a new article for every individual neologism that a musician or band creates to communicate their own perception that they fail to fit into any established genre — if their music is described by critics and music

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As long as this article has a list of LGBT artists, some criteria for inclusion needs to be set. Rather than try and set it ourselves, do we have any reliable sources the specifically define the genre? Using lyrical content as the main criteria to define a genre seems unusual, and it sets kinda an

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articles, then they can be spun back out again, and if somebody's got a better idea for how the merged article should be titled, then by all means we can discuss that as well — but given the relatively short length of even the merged article and the fairly limited sourcing that's actually present,

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I think this section is a great start, however, I think the significance of Lil Nas X and the positive LGBT representation he has garnered for the genre deserves at least a paragraph. Furthermore, "Black queer female artists" are mentioned briefly in the very last sentence of this section, almost

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that are red flags. I think the word 'positive' is not going to work here without an explanation of who is making that judgement. As for the name, articles need to go by what reliable sources use, so if most sources start using LGTBQIA Hip Hop then the article can be renamed, but until then usage

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This whole section is essentially dedicated to the homophobia and misogyny of Eminem lyrics. While he is an excellent example of such negative representation, I question whether he deserves an entire section. How much space should he take up in this article, especially considering the relatively

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And as far as artists "being included as gay or advocates for the movement when in reality they are not", can you provide some specific examples of who you think you're talking about? Because I fail to see anybody currently being named in this list, either as an LGBTQ person or as an "advocate",

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I'm not entirely opposed, as long as trans and gay are still recognized as distinct entities... sometimes when transgender just gets lumped in with lgbtq, the issues which are unique to trans identity and not shared with the LGB part of the community get lost. It's not just about sexuality, it's

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Hi there - I intend on developing this article a bit and in doing so I would like to merge it with the "Transgender Representations in hip hop music", and rename the collaborative page "LGBTQ representations in Hip Hop." This endeavor is a part of my final project for a Hip Hop course at Hunter

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about gender and its many social implications. Gender and the nature of transition are really a separate issue from same-sex attraction, although both fall under the lgbtq umbrella. So it would be very important to go into detail about each of those separately, even if the articles are merged.

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I thought the article raised some excellent points regarding LGBTQ representations in hip hop both in lyrics and by various artists. However, while the article covered a great deal on the topic, in my opinion it was more of a brief overview regarding the subject matter rather than an in depth

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Yeah, I absolutely agree that defining a genre is difficult. A lot of the time, genre labels are arbitrary and don't really correspond to how the artists conceptualize their own music. For example, contemporary rock bands still get labelled as "alternative", as if that actually meant anything

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I disagree with this statement not all gay rappers talk about being gay in every single song, album, etc Just as not every white rapper talks about being white or every straight rapper raps about being straight. This is a product of societal norms and should be removed, rephrased or sourced

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I think the following structural changes and reorganization would significantly improve the article's clarity and flow. These are major changes, however, so I'd like others' input and ideas about whether these changes make sense for the article or if there are better ways to go about this:

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LGTBQIA Hip Hop genre is not marked by a specific production style or lyrical focus, rather what unites this genre is the positive influence it has had among helping to make hip hop inclusive to various sexual orientations thus creating a more accessible art form.

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Accordingly, what I've opted to do for the time being is to merge the two articles into one at a common title. If somebody can provide adequate sourcing for why "homo hop" of the 2000s and "queer hip hop" of the 2010s might be distinct enough to warrant

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College in NYC. I believe this change and my edits will enrich the article, as some of the current information is somewhat outdated. I will be providing numerous citations to back all of my edits. Please reply with any suggestions you have! Thanks!

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There should be a section which reflects to the black community &/or African diasporan community overwhelming homophobia and how this art form has helped to combat this. Who is the face of rap? Can that change? Can there be multiple truths?

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Why is Brooke Candy listed in the "Notable artists" section, when she complains about the mere existence of the genre in the very section above? Seems somewhat silly to list someone who clearly doesn't want to be associated with the sub-genre.

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And after I dropped the page from autoconfirmed protection to pending changes monitoring in the naive hope that the problem had gone away, it took literally just three days for an anonymous IP to attempt to add Tyler the Creator again. Sigh.

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That said, not everything you've said here is actually useful or valid criticism. For example, you highlight that "majority of articles also come from after 2010" — part of the problem is that there isn't exactly a ton of pre-2010 sourcing

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policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or

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LGBT Hip Hop as a genre is not marked by a specific production style or lyrical focus, rather it is defined by a focus on inclusiveness of various sexual orientations and genders, and an openness to discussing those topics in a positive

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Nobody, for the record, ever meant to imply or suggest that an LGBT rapper is somehow limited to rapping only about LGBT things. The sexuality of an artist doesn't prevent them from doing other things — but the themes

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being LGBTQ — it is a list of notable artists who are verifiably out as LGBTQ. It is also not for heterosexual musicians who have released LGBT-themed music from the perspective of an ally: those may be mentioned in

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use about this topic, because it's one that only became a subject of particularly widespread coverage in the 2010s. Yes, the homo hop thing predated the 2010s, and we've done what we can to source it, but it didn't

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Rapper Le1f had a huge issue with Macklemore's song Same Love, which i think is worth mentioning - is there such thing as appropriating sexuality or can allies make music from the opressed point of view

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article about the more general phenomenon of queerness in hip hop — I see that you've already started an outline for one — but that's not the same thing as, and shouldn't be conflated with, the distinct

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The different sections of the article do not all have corresponding introductions in the lead section. For the ones that do, they are not presented in the order in which the lead section mentions them.

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evidence at this time that they should actually be treated as distinct subgenres of hip hop with their own separate articles; rather, they're just different terminologies within the evolution of the

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the community. Rather, what you need to show is evidence that Azealia Banks either (a) no longer identifies herself as being LGBTQ at all, or (b) was incorrectly labelled from the beginning, and

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include some discussion of the fact that the term isn't universally accepted by all artists who are described as being part of it — so the fact that it's not uncontroversial is already covered.

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into this page: the scopes overlap, the content is largely duplicated, and this article is the best and most complete. (Also, I've recently removed a large swath of similar material from

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in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:SUNY-New Paltz/Gender and Sexuality in Hip Hop Culture (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

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representation these female artists have contributed to in hip hop. Perhaps these two ideas (Lil Nas X and more discussion of queer female artists) could even be made into subsections.

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aren't LGBT-themed) — but they're not "LGBT films". And on and so forth. Yes, they can do other things, and indeed they do other things all the time — but it removes that particular

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By the same token, while the significant number of pro-LGBT hip hop songs that have been recorded and released in recent years by heterosexual artists is relevant in the context of

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hop movement? I think these are questions that need to be resolved before directly associating Frank Ocean with the movement. Otherwise, he should be confined to a list such:

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identified as LGBTQ in the first place — things she has or hasn't said about the community's political stances have nothing whatsoever to do with whether she's LGBTQ or not.

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LGBT things to be "LGBT hip hop" per se. Otherwise it's just "music made by an artist who happens to be LGBT", which isn't the same thing. There's potentially a place for a

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article. I'm aware that you've started an outline draft of a larger article on LGBT/queer issues in hip hop in general — discussion of whether "Same Love" is an example of

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That definition is vague, which is appropriate, because the boundaries of the genre are not universally accepted by the queercore community, and probably never will be.

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Black Women Queering the Mic: Missy Elliott Disturbing the Boundaries of Racialized Sexuality and Gender Nikki Lane Journal of Homosexuality Vol. 58, Iss. 6-7, 2011

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to support the artist's sexual orientation, or (b) their sexual orientation is already discussed and properly sourced in their Knowledge (XXG) article. People may

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I'm suggesting we have a section talking about Homophobia within the black community and how the accessibility of these artists helps relieve some of that pain

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It is distinguished by its discontent with society in general, and specifically society's disapproval of the gay, bisexual, lesbian and transgender communities.

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article simply discusses the topic without taking sides. The links do work. There just needs to be more information added to make the topic fully researched.

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sections, particularly at the level of sentence structure and paragraph organization. I've already made some edits in the latter section on this point.

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Okay so I will refrain from the section about women but start writing a section about homophobia in relation to LGBTQIA rights in regards to Hip Hop.

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write such a section in the article, or if you would prefer, you can write it here on the talk page for discussion. You might want to take a look at

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An artist's sexuality has no bearing on what kind of work they are or aren't allowed to make, but their sexuality also doesn't automatically render

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of the genre per se. For all the social impact that he had on the visibility and viability of LGBT performers in hip hop, his music isn't generally

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and I suggest we include a section talk about women (not necessarily queer women) and their contribution to making Hip Hop a more inclusive genre

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of the page, not the top, and that you have to sign your contributions. I've done both for you, but you need to know that for future reference.

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Or at least "LGBTQ representation in hip hop music", without the hyphen. I usually hear "representation" used as a mass noun in this context.

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article rather than this one. It's definitely a noteworthy aspect of the larger, more general topic — but doesn't really impact much on what

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An LGBT musician can still make music that isn't about LGBT topics or themes — but if they do, it's not "LGBT music" (for example, although

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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I mostly agree with that. Defining a genre is difficult. Is LGBT Hip Hop a genre defined by its lyrics? Or by its musicians? I think the

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LGBT hip hop community. I am going to work on expanding on the significance of the artists on this list and start with Yo Majesty.

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A discussion of that controversy could potentially be a legitimate addition in other articles — but it's not especially relevant to

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Just a reminder to all editors that the baseline for inclusion in this article's "notable artists" section is that the person is

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I agree with the article move (6 months later!) and think it's a good idea to have this broader article name, along the lines of

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coverage at the best of times, and is very hard to source as well as, say, something more recent like "Same Love" or "Montero".

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available

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their sexuality and/or their advocacy. So if you've got a problem with somebody being mentioned in the article, you have to

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their music except in a couple of isolated lyrics.) An LGBT novelist can still write a novel that has no LGBT content (e.g.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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of those things: this goes both for non-notable artists who do not have Knowledge (XXG) articles at all, and for

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Banks has a history of animosity towards the LGBTQ+ community. Why is she included as a notable artist? She has

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We cannot talk about sexuality in Hip hop without referencing female rappers and their opinions on the matter.

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I've tried my best to add some further context to the article, though of course it's still a work in progress.

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LGBT-specific themes (which is what it takes to be properly classed as "homo hop") — so while he's a relevant

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Whether you like it or not, she has self-identified as a member of the LGBTQ community — so to get her taken

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of the list, it's not sufficient to point out that she has some controversial opinions about it. So does

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I just wanted to explain the rationale behind my decision to move this page from the longstanding title

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article defines its genre well. Obviously not the same, but I think it's still useful for comparison:

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So yes, an LGBT musician can make hip hop that has nothing to do with LGBTness as such — just look at

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was quite different; I don't mind these being changed, or the material being shuffled in other ways.

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I agree, but are we just copying and pasting the 2 articles to this one? Or make it smaller fit in?

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journalists as belonging to a given genre, then we describe their music that way even if that label

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to focus too much on one song by a straight artist in this article. It might be more appropriate at

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on 15 August 2020. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see

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section and be a separate section since it's a significant part of the article. The content of the

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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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added to the "notable artists" list on the basis of having released one LGBTQ-themed song — it is

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