Talk:Lexus - Knowledge (XXG)

1941:, "Information about companies and products must be written in an objective and unbiased style, free of puffery. All article topics must be verifiable with independent, third-party sources, ..." This is particularly true given the major shift to use press releases as promotion and advertising tools. There is a symbiotic relationship corporations have with organizations such as J.D. Power. For example, there is no significance to the "Platinum award for worldwide plant quality". This "award" does not represent a comprehensive study of every factory, in every nation, and in every industry. There is a basic problem of defining quality in this "award" which J.D. Powers seems to only define as "fewest defects" (which is subject to different interpretations) while also neglecting to inform the reader that only selected automobile assembly plants were evaluated by them. Unless these "claims" are also collaborated by truly independent sources (not simply reposts of the press releases) such as academic-based research, then they should be removed from WP articles. Moreover, the Press Release cited sections in this article are written in a 531: 510: 3452:

developed for Lexus vehicles, along with new molds and specialized manufacturing equipment. Welding processes, body panel fit tolerances, and paint quality requirements are more stringent. Lexus plant workers, typically veteran technicians, are identified via repeated performance evaluations and ranked according to skill grade, with limited applicants accepted. The highest level takumi (Japanese for "artisan") engineers are responsible for maintaining production standards at key points in the assembly process, such as testing engine performance. Production vehicles are given visual inspections for flaws, individually test-driven at high speeds, and subjected to vibration tests.

1910:, for example, seems like the kind of thing that needs more substantial sources to be included here. Sounds impressive, but what is a "Platinum Award for Worldwide Plant Quality"? How would one find out? J.D. Power is widely mentioned in advertisements, but it's much, much less commonly cited in more reliable sources, and even less commonly in ones of any substance. Without this context, it's very flattering, but it's not clear how informative these awards are. If they are flattering but not informative, then they are not neutral. 480: 390: 414: 620: 599: 765: 227: 345: 404: 376: 630: 1561: 1334:

requires us to find every article that uses it (winnowing out the other articles that link to plain 'Flagship' or its other sections) and change them one by one - tedious, error prone and very easy to miss some. Note: 'flagship car' originally pointed to plain old 'flagship', my fix was to make 'flagship cars' point to 'Flagship#Automotive'. ~~~~

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issue. if your vehicle is one of the models that has been recalled your dealer will be sending you a notice, you will need to take your vehicle in for repairs. If you have any further questions you can call (800) 255-3987. Do you think current safety and quality issues, the car accelerating out of control, should be reported?

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It's a little over the top but not by much. The whole point of the Lexus brand was quality. When it was first introduced they had to made it substantially better than the competition in order to convince buyers that it wasn't a typical Toyota economy car. So they went to extraordinary lengths to use

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There are some dead links that need to be repaired: 95, 96, 125, 126, 131, 165, 193, and 203. I fixed some overlinking issues. The writing is fine, the images are good with Fair use rationale where necessary, the lead is solid. Overall the article is great! If it weren't for all the deadlinks I

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says that the name was chosen circa October 1986. I have no doubt that a department within Toyota was created around the same time but I don't have any source that says this. It was unleashed onto the public in 1989. I don't know when it was formally incorporated in either Japan or the US. Company

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The current issue on the accelerating and brakes of Certain models has been more that reported. there has been a nation wide recall on certain Es and GX models for Lexus. Many people are panicking, they need to realize that it is not all Lexus models being recalled. However, it is a very serious

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is the better link. I contend that 'flagship car' is better because if we ever get a separate article about flagship cars/automobiles then 'flagship car' can either be the article or a redirect to the new article - simple, easy and very hard to have hidden problems. Whereas 'Flagship#Automobiles'

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I notice there's a listing of awards in the intro paragraph. Is there reason to include them, and if there is, why are they included in the introduction? Would it be more appropriate to have the list of notable awards included in the Marketing or other section? Toyota marked cars, and many other

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The first Lexus vehicles were manufactured in Toyota's Tahara plant, a highly sophisticated, computerized manufacturing plant in Japan. Lexus production techniques include methods and standards of quality control that differ from Toyota models. At the Tahara plant, separate assembly lines were

1184:). However, the slogan has been removed from other articles, so I don't see a problem with removing it here. As for the awards, the reliability awards stand as a U.S. record which no other auto brand has come close to achieving (14x), but it is not a major part of the article body anyhow, per 1202:

Thanks SynergyStar for the work on updating the discussion ideas into the article; but now you have me convinced that there is something notable enough about the awards to include a mention in some way in the intro. I would agree its notable to achieve a reliability record that none other has

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Presumably you mean my reversion. I dont' understand some things about your reversion of my reversion "Undid revision 561670080 by Stepho-wrs (talk) I read User:Stepho-wrs presentation page: possible wp:COI. Please consider wp:3rr & opening comment on talk page as wp:AGF. Thanks.)":

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achieved, and that fact is beyond marketing hyperbole. Perhaps integrating that fact as a sentence in one of the intro paragraphs, then relying on it being expounded upon (as it already is) further in the body would do the would keep a mention of the reliability record consistent with

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Most of this is just side issues. I will simply state that I deny all accusations of deliberate wrong doing on my part and that I assumed edits to the article were done in good faith by both parties. If you feel I have done an injustice then please call up an administrator.

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Valid points made above by both, in my opinion. I've gone ahead and cut out most of that paragraph, i.e. the "over the top" stuff, and left a brief summary at the end of that section instead. That section, overall, now focuses on the different assembly sites. Thanks

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Thanks to IP 134.154.170.210 for your information, aside from the floor mat fix, the ES has not been further involved. Also help phone #s and dealer service info probably would be more helpful elsewhere, because this page is not intended for general discussion. Thanks

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Who are you saying is supposed to be assuming good faith? My edit summary said "REvert good faith edit. Fixed ] instead." I.e. I explicitly said yours was a good faith edit but that I found another way to fix the problem (which naturally I think is better, see

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restored the awards, with the rationale that they are factually supported as having been given to the company. This is true, but that is not why I removed them. If they are not demonstrated by reliable sources as being worthy, why are they mentioned? The

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Thanks Retran for your suggestions, it's possible a sentence could be added, however readers can now find the reliability references in the production section, and the slogan in the marketing section, as suggested (incidentally, it used to be that

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at 07:24, 10 April 2013. Searching that page for "11:40, 23 March 2013" shows comments similar to those on this talk page—comments which were mentioned in the "Blocked" section. Further discussion is unlikely to be productive. The explanation by

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does exactly the same job now but it is so much easier to change where it points to - just change the redirection and we're done. The maintenance is so much easier and can be done by almost anybody. Simple solution. Why do things the hard way?

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While I'm absolutely not saying that anything nefarious is going on at this article, the reason I am removing press-release-cited J.D. Power awards from articles is that I noticed them being inserted by some of the

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above is correct—it is standard procedure to use a precisely named link despite it currently being a redirect to a section in another article. I have restored this article to how it has been for some time.

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had a slogan field, but no longer--also showing the lead section details can change). With the lead having the basic summary points, some details can be saved for the body. Thanks again for your comments,

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has the minor advantage that it goes directly to where we want without a redirection but the typical reader won't care about that. The real difference comes in the future if we decide to rename the

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to the same "place" as mentioned above even "if we ever get a separate article about flagship cars/automobiles". Please note that both links take exactly to same article/section... and there are

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Isn't this article way too long? It seems like some new pages should be split off from it. I realise it would be some work. Don't know if there are official guidelines for this. --

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because I was interested in commenting the change on the talk page as we are doing right now. But if you are still unsatisfied with my explanations we could always kindly ask for a

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is better. As both Maurice and myself have stated, both links look the same and go to the same place - at the moment. On the face of it, there would little to choose between them.

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makes have received many similar recognitions yet do not have them included in their article intro. Seems like an NPOV issue that so much weight is given to them in the intro.--

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What conflict of interest do I supposedly have? I have neither increased nor decreased any point of view and the link appears and works exactly the same to the readers.

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Thanks for your suggestions, the awards and slogan have been there for quite a long time, and if you look at a number of company articles, the slogan is included (e.g.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090923105020/http://www.motortrader.com/industry-news/car-dealer-news/29338-lexus-network-set-for-overhaul-as-brand-goes-hybrid-only.html

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http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-denied-customer-complaints-on-sudden-acceleration-problem-for-more-than-5-years.aspx?googleid=274028

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090917114124/http://www.motortrader.com/industry-news/archives/24829-lexus-plans-for-growth-on-the-back-of-its-hybrid-models.html

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would pass it without hesitation. I will hold the article for a week pending work on the references. If you need to contact me please do so at my talk page.

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First of all it should be clear that both links mentioned above take to same article/section. Once made this statement I will try to answer to your points:

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so makes sense to integrate them into body. It would be helpful if the guidelines on slogan integration were more specific too. Assuming good faith, thanks.

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accounts. This underscores their popularity as PR tools, but Knowledge (XXG) should use independent sources to avoid this kind of manipulation, and for

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Your 'constructive dialogue' consisted of slander and avoiding the main issue. I think I was happier before I got to know you. Time to stop feeding the

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Okay. Since there seems to be agreement that the J.D. Power awards do not belong, for a variety of reasons, I am again removing them from the article.

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I removed mentions of the J.D. Power awards which lacked any secondary sources. Most of them were sourced to press releases. The only exception was

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Why did you mention the 3RR rule? I reverted only a single time because I fixed the problem through a different (arguably better) method than yours.

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Thank you Grayfell! This article still needs much work to reduce boastful superlatives (BS) and make it a worthy encyclopedia entry. Thanks,

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071013071327/https://gasgoo.com:80/autobiz/3393/Lexus-knocks-out-Mercedes-in-China-s-high-end-car-market.html

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I guess this talk page has the relevant 'Opening comment' ... and I hope it will have the closing comment as well leaving everyone happy :D

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histories (Lexus/Toyota websites and third party books) are also vague about it. Which means that the founding date is not clear at all.

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is out of production then what was the sportscar (read: supercar) in the background of several different Lexus commercials in 2014? --

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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https://archive.is/20120803044610/http://www.greencardesign.co.uk/site/item.php?id=1209596679&category=city_watch&subcat=

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https://web.archive.org/web/20091024031038/https://www.businessweek.com:80/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/10/introducing_the_1.html

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https://web.archive.org/20090503210205/http://www.motortrader.com:80/industry-news/24880-lexus-car-dealers-are-britains-best.html

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Also why is there a little orphan sentence regarding the "motto". That should definitely be included in the Marketing section!--

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https://web.archive.org/web/20080906221018/https://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/EE775C71EC94A9A5CA257300001FC985

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has come to an end. And BTW let's consider the interesting side of the whole comments section: we got to know each other. FYI

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071013104946/https://goauto.com.au:80/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/59D124ADF8528A6CCA2572C90016B851

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https://web.archive.org/20081206011133/http://www.businessweek.com:80/autos/content/sep2006/bw20060912_991505.htm?chan=search

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http://www.motortrader.com/industry-news/car-dealer-news/29338-lexus-network-set-for-overhaul-as-brand-goes-hybrid-only.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20081012004238/https://www.businessweek.com:80/lifestyle/content/feb2008/bw20080222_305511.htm

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https://web.archive.org/20100723233902/http://www.zakzak.co.jp:80/society/domestic/news/20100716/dms1007161623011-n2.htm

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I found this in the "Assembly plants" section and identified it as promotional/advertising content. Anyone else agree?

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070930024207/http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=231504&FS=GRANDAM-GRANDCUP

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Which talk page has the relevant 'Opening comment'? Neither yours nor mine seem to say anything relevant to this topic.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101126140347/https://www.businessweek.com:80/autos/content/feb2007/bw20070214_857806.htm

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070614045352/https://www.businessweek.com:80/autos/content/mar2006/bw20060308_999129.htm

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070427105753/http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2005/11/stories/01/3.html

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http://www.motortrader.com/industry-news/archives/24829-lexus-plans-for-growth-on-the-back-of-its-hybrid-models.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20151016004926/https://mediacenter.lexus.com.cn/Uploads/db/shuiyin20120118094316101.pdf

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http://web.archive.org/web/20120602104143/http://ww2.supergt.net/gtcgi/prg/NList02.dll/Code?No=NS014459&List=13

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071013125745/https://businessweek.com:80/autos/content/jan2006/bw20060109_789752.htm

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is under contention, it might be worthwhile to hold off for a little while on using that link on articles such as

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070930183553/http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_897974.php

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071015063427/http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/jaguar/2009_jaguar_xf/index.html

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20080430193427/https://www.businessweek.com:80/magazine/content/07_30/b4043103.htm

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100410143949/http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/drives/2010_lexus_rx_350_rx_450h

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070503195249/http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_11_183/ai_110404995

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https://web.archive.org/20071013125737/http://businessweek.com:80/autos/content/feb2006/bw20060215_597701.htm

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https://web.archive.org/20120306021314/http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57554

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https://web.archive.org/20101123173546/http://interbrand.com/Libraries/Files/-1_Japan_BGB2009_pdf.sflb.ashx

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https://web.archive.org/20070928061045/http://promomagazine.com/eventmarketing/news/lexus_usopen_083006/

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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only the best production methods and the best employees. This really was an all-out effort by Toyota.

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way that contribute to making the article read like an advertisement, which is also contrary to the

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https://web.archive.org/20101125225943/http://www.thestar.com:80/comment/columnists/article/126053

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