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read, write, and voice opinions on this
Knowledge (XXG). "Belgrade" will never be replaced by "Beograd", as "Belgrade" is the English version for the name of that city. Totally unrelated and uncalled for this discussion. As for you Yano, nobody is going rogue or stonewalling. There's people disagreeing with the proposal, and that's perfectly normal.
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Diacritics are accurate and rightfully applied on this name. Besides, tradition on
Knowledge (XXG) is to use diacritics whenever applicable; there are thousands of articles in the same circumstances as this one and virtually all of them use diacritics (this person's brother being one of them, with a
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on evidence. Looking forward to army of impassioned
Eastern Europeans who will probably disagree. To them and those that agree with them, if you can verifiably establish that English convention supports your preferred spelling, I will be on your side. Please do not simply say that "Đoković is his
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After having the same discussions a thousand times with the same users who just won't give up their agenda, you simply deplete your patience for providing proof, or anything else but the raw acknowledgment that you are against these eternal proposals. We haven't been here for two days. And nobody's
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User:Husond how do you know that it is "Wrong"? If main stream
English language newspapers (which are not limited to "limited-keyboard-spelling") do not use diacritics are they wrong? You says "There's people disagreeing with the proposal" but we are meant to be working towards a consensus and as
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Once again you single out groups of
Wikipedians, Pmanderson. Everybody around here is an anglophone, otherwise none would be editing this place. I believe you refer to non-native speakers of English, whom you seem to despise. Bear in mind though that all users with no exception have the right to
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If you're anything like me, you're probably flabbergasted by the people here who think they are above the burden of proof. No one opposed to this move has produced any evidence that this man's legal name is anything other than "Djokovic." When asked, they only chide and insult, and one of those
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says "The focus of every dispute should be determining how best to comply with the relevant policies and guidelines. Editors have reached consensus when they agree that they have appropriately applied
Knowledge (XXG)'s policies and guidelines, not when they personally like the outcome." Do you
2073:??? 2.)I think we have seen enough your "literacy" . English orthography and grammar are "constitution" . All laws (WP:NC ) must be adjusted according to it! And this is example how some users (you and couple of others) try to impose some rule which is totally "unconstitutional"--
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A counterfactual assumption; the first pillar is verifiability, and there are verified sources that the subject's name, in
English, is Djokovic; one of them is Montenegrin. Indeed, it is Husond who proposes to make the completely unsourced assertion that it is Đoković.
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Neither do I. I do not believe, any more than you, that dropping diacritics by itself makes something
English; but there is significant evidence (all the sources to the article, for example) that Marko Djokovic is what English writers use, and Marko Đoković isn't.
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Polite request: can opposers opposing because low-MOS websites and other sources with incomplete font sets have incomplete font sets please justify why this article should follow sources with incomplete font sets when the rest of en.wikipedia does not? Thank you
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No, my regard for those who insist on illiteracy instead of
English is not dependent on whether they are native speakers or not; it is based on the harm they would do Knowledge (XXG), and the frivolousness of their arguments. Native speakers can be equally
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Just to comment, Johann Strauß is not a correct spelling of the person's name in German. Paris is used that way both in
English and French and the spelling of Vienna is backed up by history and pronunciation, neither of which can be applied to "Djokovic".
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Contrary to the impression of the non-anglophone nationalists among us, the quality of this English Knowledge (XXG) does include whether it is written in English, not Serbian. It would worsen this Knowledge (XXG) to massively replace
1343:, I think it is more important to have rules which apply for all, and not for this articles who collect more supporters of changing the names. You should raise the question somewhere else on Knowledge (XXG), definitely not here. --
2452:"correct" in English? It could be "John Strauss" or "Johann Strauß", but Knowledge (XXG) policies dictate that we should choose the name that is used in reliable English language sources and in those is is "Johann Strauss". --
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This is a confession of what is indeed the case; Husond has no evidence, and never has had any; he merely has an agenda to refashion the English language. His claims should be given a weight proportionate to their basis.
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In my mind, it is your remarks that are befitting of a self-pitying nationalist. Not to mention that in most circumstances such attitude against specific groups of Wikipedians could be simply branded as subtle xenophobia.
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Now, I do not understand one thing:Most of these journalists from these newpapers are not able to find Serbia on the world map. (are you able to, Yano?) Why then their names misspelling is relevant for any serious
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The result of the proposal was move. The requesters have provided evidence that Djokovic is the preferred form of the name in english. The opposers have not provided evidence that the original form is preferred.
2896:, etc. These articles are considered to be of the highest quality, so we should follow their normal practice. Please discuss in the future before re-adding or changing the name in the template header. --
1504:, such as it is, supports using diacritics when English has adopted them; there may also be a tradition of giving in to the spam of self-pitying nationalists; but there certainly no general tradition.
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and the still ensuing arrogance of English-language journalists and their system administrators. The best use of "Djokovic"-s and similar fake Latin-Latin transcriptions is an article of the like of
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Rules must apply for all articles, not just for these two. I think, you must first find consensus on general usage of letter Đ on English Knowledge (XXG), and then chance or keep these articles. --
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This does not describe the evidence; strictly limited keyboards are rare, and writers will sensibly and demonstrably avoid diacritics when writing English even when they are available.
3078:– Consistency within en.wikipedia with Serbian bio and geo articles, specifically on -ić. Knowledge (XXG) does not follow low-MOS websites and other sources with incomplete font sets.
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The name of this article should be changed to "Marko Djokovic" because that is the name used on the English-language websites of the official governing bodies of tennis, which are the
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The quality of this encyclopedia is also hinged on people following the guidelines. Going rogue and stonewalling a legitimate page move because you don't like it is not helpful. --
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Did you see the polite request above? What specifically has WP:AT got that says this particular article has to be inconsistent with en.wikipedia's MOS for Serbian names? Surname
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Those haven't been published, and they have very little to do with common usage. Even if you had seen his birth certificate, using it would constitute original research. --
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That's because the article on his brother should be using the diacritics, not the other way around. Will you be proposing to move thousands of other similar articles next?
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and BTW we have redirects for such people and people who can't write this on their keyboard. Đoković is the correct spelling and Djokovic is a mistake that arose from the
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These source might be relevant as a source for his tennis matches results , certain events of his biography eetc. but for the details aboute him definitely not!!! Just an
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1572:"PMAnderson, a great defender of English language... whose legacy is bigger than Shakespear's , Faulkner's or Joyce's ..." joke of the month, year, century ... --
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per Anto, MTC, Husond and other people still adhering to common sense. If someone doesn't recognize Đoković and Djokovic as same, I wouldn't trust him on using
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200:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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Whatever!! I think the first reliable sources are his birth certificate, and other his personal documents.And there is not written "Djokovic" for sure. --
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I understand your wariness about repeated arguments, but I'm not sure how is the argument you cite in the last sentence completely invalidated.
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in English means "usual spelling". If this were the usual spelling, there would be some evidence for it; the oppose !votes have supplied none.
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2407:. "Marko Djokovic" is not English, it's just a diacriticless form of his own name. (English might be Mark Jokoson or something similar). —
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2) About my English:I will keep writting here... no matter what you think or smbd like you think. If you have problem with that there are
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3123:. The requested title is the most rarely used version of his name. It's either "Djokovic" (most often) or "Đoković" (second most often).
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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per sources in article and his brother. Plus the fact a move attempt was made on this very player just a couple weeks ago, that failed.
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I defend no nation; I defend English usage from all of them (including the rivalries of the English-speaking world, when they arise.)
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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How nice for them. But we're an encyclopedia here, and we have the sensitivity to provide quality as opposite to such carelessness.
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P.S. I don't know if you realize what are you talking about when you talk abou "nationalism"? Do you know the meaning of that word?
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1408:"If we are to use rules" then Raikkonen is English usage. But this rule, like Erudy notices, applies only to Eastern Europeans.--
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
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WOW, PMAndersonyou are able to write two words in foreign language (it is Latin, do you know?) . That is really "amazing".--
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110725115753/http://www.juniortennis.com/ajt/tournamentinfo.php?t_id=16626&h_id=2515
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http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atptennis.com%2Fposting%2F2007%2F439%2FQS.pdf
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Wrong. Usual spelling in this case means limited-keyboard-spelling, which we don't follow on Knowledge (XXG).
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Neither of the above supply any evidence or argument. This unfounded claim should be discounted accordingly.
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Either way, despite the title, the page linked to is a proposed naming convention, not a current guideline.
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English? How do we know how to spell Paris, we look at reliable English sources to see. Is the spelling of
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I understand but I don't feel that merely dropping diacritics makes a sequence of letters "English." —
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Once again, that's not a guideline, it's a proposal. I think the "move" argument here is that there
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Obviously and unfortunately:You don't know! Otherwise you'd recognize yourself in your own words.--
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1)Yes, we do have constitution! If you prefer to interpret on your own ... that is your problem.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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what happens if somebody with disputed "knowledge" is allowed to write and talk about everything
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Nor is it English. I know someone whose name is Elaine, but whose baptismal certificate says
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1427:. The current spelling is causing some confusion in relation to the subject's brother
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A slip of the keyboard, probably; the relevant example is the Bavarian politician
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move, we should be guided by what Reliable English Language sources use as per
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Could someone please put if he is Novak's youngest or second youngest brother?
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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OH, mom....those nationalists took my lolipop. It is my, my.... bring it back!
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here would be the fact that this person is a Serb with a Serbian name.
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consider that you are working towards an agreement to implement the
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1339:) 17:16, 7 February 2009 (UTC) I'm also for Djokovic, in general,
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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is demonstrably the English version of this surname; just like
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1500:. Only in Husond's mind; since when is this worth lying about?
2380:. To the admin who closes this requested move please consider
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One of several sections which exists under the overall header
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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The result of the move request was: no consensus to move per
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Ajax, that section only applies, to quote the main header,
2384:, and don't just count the opinions expressed as votes. --
2105:. Learn to write English, and then come and discuss it.
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The following is a closed discussion of the proposal.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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people is, quite inexplicably, an administrator... --
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current ongoing proposal to include the diacritics).
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Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (Cyrillic)#Serbian
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Low-importance biography (sports and games) articles
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outside the bounds of discussions on Knowledge (XXG)
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2947:. No further edits should be made to this section.
2915:is the revision of Anton Chekhov which passed FAC.
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1357:Comment Rules do apply to all articles see policy
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3477:Knowledge (XXG) requested images of tennis people
2650:Exactly; the first pillar states that we should "
3412:Stub-Class biography (sports and games) articles
2531:When no commonly accepted form exists in English
1173:When no commonly accepted form exists in English
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33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
2273:Yes, I have an ostensive definition before me.
3320:This message was posted before February 2018.
3147:still has ć, no objection to consistency with
2793:Very "interesting " and "scientifc" : (irony)
1384:If we are to use rules, then we should follow
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3276:I have just modified one external link on
3014:The following is a closed discussion of a
2970:There is a move discussion in progress on
2933:The following is a closed discussion of a
2860:only use the article title in the header:
2494:I differentiate between diacritics (e.g.,
2095:About what nationalists do you talk about?
1616:– Đoković is simply the correct spelling.
1597:– Đoković is simply the correct spelling.
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949:Is this person relevant for wikipedia?--
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928:RM, Marko Djokovic → Marko Djoković,
918:RM, Marko Djokovic → Marko Djoković,
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908:RM, Marko Đoković → Marko Djokovic,
741:This article is within the scope of
657:Tag more articles with our standard
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309:This article is within the scope of
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249:It is of interest to the following
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462:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Tennis
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3280:. Please take a moment to review
2608:Not when they interfere with the
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1183:is commonly accepted in English.
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3452:Low-importance Serbia articles
3437:Low-importance tennis articles
3427:WikiProject Biography articles
1410:Irić Igor -- Ирић Игор -- K♥S
600:and expand it, or peruse the
336:Template:WikiProject Biography
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3407:Stub-Class biography articles
2979:08:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
2920:13:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
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2462:09:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
2440:AjaxSmack is the spelling of
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2418:03:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
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2345:09:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
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2182:09:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
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2115:19:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
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2001:00:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
1976:00:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
1961:00:09, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
1582:09:07, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
1375:00:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
1209:09:27, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
1115:01:05, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
1041:Official Tennis Organizations
1024:09:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
755:and see a list of open tasks.
456:and see a list of open tasks.
373:This article is supported by
193:biographies of living persons
42:Put new text under old text.
3457:Stub-Class Belgrade articles
3388:08:23, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
2152:Really? Where? Link please.
1915:23:52, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
1881:23:32, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
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990:01:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
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959:15:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
321:contribute to the discussion
3472:WikiProject Serbia articles
3442:WikiProject Tennis articles
3007:Requested move 9 March 2015
2926:Move discussion in progress
2588:follow common English usage
764:Template:WikiProject Serbia
465:Template:WikiProject Tennis
205:must be removed immediately
3493:
3447:Stub-Class Serbia articles
3432:Stub-Class tennis articles
3351:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3273:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
3240:05:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
3223:20:42, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
3196:09:55, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3173:05:55, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3133:16:31, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
3063:12:24, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
2965:05:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
1215:Funny, I thought that the
1175:. The nom has presented a
1167:16:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
787:project's importance scale
488:project's importance scale
3105:12:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
3088:12:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
2890:Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan
2013:naming conventions policy
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2940:Please do not modify it.
2769:Novak's official website
2731:Please do not modify it.
2103:you and couple of others
2071:United States of Fooland
1146:19:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
1005:Please do not modify it.
3269:External links modified
2954:closing on 6 March 2015
839:It is requested that a
667:ATP and WTA tournament.
1388:, because this is the
835:
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239:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
2099:have seen enough your
2017:Use English guideline
1285:on present evidence.
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312:WikiProject Biography
243:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
100:Neutral point of view
3332:regular verification
2894:Anastasia Nikolaevna
2886:Simeon I of Bulgaria
2382:Purpose of consensus
2091:have no constitution
2008:Purpose of consensus
912:, 17 February 2009,
862:and other web sites.
105:No original research
3322:After February 2018
2972:Talk:Novak Djokovic
2478:Franz Josef Strauss
1070:The Australian Open
856:WordPress Openverse
849:improve its quality
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3157:Ivan Đoković
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19:This is the
3260:move review
3121:his brother
3026:move review
2998:move review
2945:move review
1217:prima facie
1177:prima facie
893:Move logs:
809:(marked as
148:free images
31:not a forum
3396:Categories
3383:Report bug
2874:Darjeeling
2836:Añtó| Àntó
2799:Añtó| Àntó
2759:Herald Sun
2706:PMAnderson
2670:Añtó| Àntó
2642:PMAnderson
2569:PMAnderson
2552:AjaxSmack
2539:PMAnderson
2511:AjaxSmack
2486:PMAnderson
2412:AjaxSmack
2337:Añtó| Àntó
2279:PMAnderson
2238:Añtó| Àntó
2174:Añtó| Àntó
2158:PMAnderson
2111:PMAnderson
2075:Añtó| Àntó
1997:PMAnderson
1972:PMAnderson
1877:PMAnderson
1831:PMAnderson
1790:PMAnderson
1762:ISO 8859-1
1714:You wish.
1706:PMAnderson
1638:PMAnderson
1618:Añtó| Àntó
1574:Añtó| Àntó
1548:PMAnderson
1510:PMAnderson
1291:PMAnderson
1201:Añtó| Àntó
1189:PMAnderson
1179:case that
1085:BBC Sports
982:Marilllove
963:Why not?--
944:Notability
934:discussion
924:discussion
914:discussion
841:photograph
638:up to our
241:Stub-class
3366:this tool
3359:this tool
3296:dead link
3035:Not moved
2656:Parsecboy
2596:Parsecboy
1502:Tradition
1063:Wimbledon
1016:DrKiernan
930:Not Moved
640:standards
330:Biography
270:Biography
209:libellous
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
3372:Cheers.—
3145:Djoković
3125:Dohn joe
2976:RMCD bot
2428:Dekimasu
2015:and the
1985:Belgrade
1981:Djokovic
1865:Belgrade
1260:Dekimasu
1181:Djokovic
1159:Komischn
1128:and the
1029:Evidence
965:Vitriden
845:included
704:Belgrade
665:Open Era
634:Bring a
623:articles
565:Copyedit
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
3300:tag to
3282:my edit
3217:Calidum
3055:Amakuru
2878:IIT KGP
2870:Shahbag
2832:example
2584:Support
2374:Support
1869:Beograd
1800:Oh look
1758:CAPTCHA
1425:Support
1391:English
1382:Support
1345:Göran S
1333:Göran S
1329:Oppose.
1300:Support
1283:Support
785:on the
596:Grab a
551:Cleanup
517:history
499:Tennis
486:on the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
3292:Added
3228:Oppose
3201:Oppose
3184:Oppose
3113:Oppose
2882:Ghandi
2446:Vienna
2401:Oppose
1989:Handel
1754:Oppose
1614:Oppose
1595:Oppose
1471:Oppose
1120:Survey
869:Upload
860:Flickr
758:Serbia
749:Serbia
699:Serbia
653:member
617:Tennis
591:Expand
459:Tennis
449:tennis
404:Tennis
247:scale.
126:Google
3205:WP:NC
3117:WP:AT
3043:WP:RS
2856:Many
2698:Ilini
2442:Paris
2378:WP:UE
1987:- or
1429:Novak
1386:WP:UE
1363:WP:UE
1359:WP:NC
1305:Erudy
910:Moved
647:Other
629:Stubs
610:Photo
527:purge
522:watch
501:To-do
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
3236:talk
3203:per
3192:talk
3169:talk
3129:talk
3115:per
3101:talk
3084:talk
3059:talk
3041:and
2961:talk
2913:This
2902:talk
2898:Yano
2840:talk
2818:talk
2814:Yano
2803:talk
2785:talk
2781:Yano
2764:ESPN
2688:talk
2684:Yano
2674:talk
2660:talk
2600:talk
2458:talk
2403:per
2390:talk
2341:talk
2242:talk
2178:talk
2079:talk
2025:talk
1911:talk
1907:Yano
1665:talk
1661:Yano
1622:talk
1603:talk
1578:talk
1437:talk
1433:Yano
1431:. --
1414:talk
1400:talk
1371:talk
1349:talk
1337:talk
1309:talk
1205:talk
1163:talk
1153:See
1142:talk
1111:talk
1107:Yano
1099:ESPN
1020:talk
986:talk
969:talk
955:talk
636:Stub
512:edit
319:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
3340:RfC
3310:to
3252:.
3215:--
3159:,
3155:,
2990:.
2616:Hús
2454:PBS
2386:PBS
2101:or
2097:or
2089:We
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1946:Hús
1867:by
1843:Hús
1806:Hús
1770:pwn
1768:or
1766:teh
1718:Hús
1678:Hús
1599:MTC
1523:Hús
1478:Hús
1449:Hús
1367:PBS
1341:but
1223:Hús
1136:.
851:.
843:be
777:Low
619:or
478:Low
198:BLP
176:TWL
3398::
3353:.
3348:}}
3344:{{
3298:}}
3294:{{
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3171:)
3163:.
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3072:→
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3053:—
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2432:よ!
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158:·
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128:(
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