Talk:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historical Park

2430:? I'm not going to challenge this close further, simply because of that website mistake on the Park Service's part (not the stylized stone mentioned by the closer which is, arguably, a design while includes the comma and period made into artistic lines). Consensus is not counting noses, but about weighing all of the data presented, and that's why I asked for an n-gram which, in the past, has been a standard form of "evidence". And if you are close to exhausting your patience, maybe a Wikibreak? Why would you be impatient about an editor pointing out that the article for a named site where Dr. King is buried should include (which it does in the physical universe) the name on his tombstone? Let such things play out, please, without losing patience, and do read the page on consensus to see what it is and what it isn't. Several people who had been defending the use of commas also lost patience, but at people not going by the naming provisions of the guidelines, and left these discussions. Maybe the anti-King comma editors can stop at this one, because the others have even more evidence that the comma-included is the common name. Or we can just go with removing the Jr. altogether and use just 2167:

Isn't Knowledge (XXG) supposed to share encyclopedic knowledge with the world? Dr. King's name with the comma is all over this historic district, all over its formation history (not to mention King's gravestone), and is spread right across the top of the Visitors Center and the signage. Yet they want the closer to decide, in a landslide of the very very tiny percentage of Wikipedians who both know about RM's and bother to post on them, that the encyclopedia should give its readers the wrong information. If I'm the lone voice on this I still think I'm right. Closings aren't supposed to be done by counting heads, they should be done taking into account that we are an encyclopedia. This National Historic Site includes the comma in Dr. King's name. It's up to the closer to choose if we are going to literally tell readers and researchers that they can't trust their lying eyes, or, and wouldn't it be nice, if the closer said "enough is enough" and let this accurate title remain.

2265:

current, reliable sources", I'd asked for one of those ancient n-gram searches but couldn't figure out how to do it with the comma included, can someone do one of those on these names before a close, which should have probably been done? The real name of the Historic District and the name without the comma. And "consistent" doesn't mean, or shouldn't, that if some sources don't list the comma then the real name is tossed overboard. This is one of the Catch-22 things people have been using, that word 'consistent', it's as if some newspaper of note mistypes "Declaration of independence" then that page name should automatically be changed. "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" or some such saying, and maybe that should be written into the "guidelines".

3615:, but even if it were we'd end up removing this comma since modern sources – both in book publishing and news publishing – routinely drop the comma, and current style guides don't recommend it. This is what was established in the RfC and the sourcing behind it. So, there is no argument to make at all in favor of the comma other than that some American traditionalists like the US government like to retain the comma (and often forget to include the second one). It's just not enough. And "it's the man's name for God's sake" is the personal PoV stuff that has poisoned this discussion for over a year and led to so much pointless and time-sucking strife over formatting trivia. By that kind of reasoning, we should move 1968:: HTML page title: no comma. Content page title: no comma. Signage on Visitor Center, as shown in the photo: comma. Caption for the photo: comma. To see enough consistency to meet the threshold is clear cherry-picking, the unsupported claim that building signage, which is difficult to change, should be given more weight than web content, which is not. If NPS's current preference is for the comma, they would have reflected that consistently on their main web page for the site. It's obvious enough to me that they don't have that much of a preference at all, that you care a lot more about that comma than they do. They are also inconsistent with the period after Jr, showing that they see punctuation of the name as 3878:, the page I was looking at was the one linked by CookieMonster755, WP:JR and SR. at Naming conventions (people). Thanks for researching my links, and pointing that out. So I can see how editors would think it's reasonable that MOS:JR can still be at least argued to apply here. But having that guideline language at the naming conventions page throws a bit of a monkey wrench into it. MOS:JR applies to biographical articles, and since the Historical Park is a place named after a person rather than a person, it can also be argued that the naming conventions page would take precedence over the biographical guidelines, and in that case WP:JR still would not apply to this RM. 4226:, reads "Knowledge (XXG) does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources". That's why I was waiting for the National Park Service to make the name with one comma official, copying it directly from a piece of congressional legislation. This will likely be the name used in 51% of the sources, which "name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject". The official name, with the comma, passes all the criteria asked for in the guideline covering titles, and it does seem to have the consensus here. 3701:, not this article in particular" is, in reality, the opposite (again). WP:JR is a done deal, I've written that often. Since it's a place named after a person, I do have an interest in renaming this one with the comma, and maybe the D.C. Memorial. That's all. I'd say "WTF?", but since I have to assume good faith, I guess guessing that your misunderstood and misinterpreted insight into my intentions, and presenting that insight as fact, isn't battleground. If not, it's at least mine-field. And I'm not going to threaten to run off and report you to the principal, as you keep threatening to do with me. 3463:". Evidently you and I disagree on this, but according to me it's clear from the decision made in the JR debates that we should be omitting commas when writing Jr. or Sr. on a name. Irrespective of whether it refers to a person or not. Because why would we make such a distinction? It makes no sense. Sure, the letter of the rule is that it doesn't apply to non-people, but how does that fit in with the spirit of the rule? It seems far better to me just to deprecate the comma everywhere, and then we don't have to keep arguing about it. Thanks — 249: 222: 4222:

that the next place to look is to a biographical page which also contains the WP:JR guideline. But that page is about people, not places. From that logical viewpoint, it can be argued that there is no guideline about WP:JR and a thing named after a person. So it does not pertain to this RM. That it has been used by every opposing editor, and is being taken for granted, testifies to its persistence in the face of a well founded guideline argument that it doesn't apply here. Secondly, common name as it pertains to

900: 3711:

argument above hinges on WP:JR which, as you now know, has nothing to do with this RM (and again I must assume good faith and believe that you and other policy-guideline savvy editors who used WP:JR to change the name of this page and the Memorial page, are as surprised as I am that it does not cover things named after people). As you are a firm believer in accurately listing and noting guideline, I'm seriously a little surprised you still mention WP:JR, and have not taken it out of your consideration.

2198:

district include the comma. When something physical is given a name, an actual place you can walk around in, explore, grab some lunch, buy a postcard, and visit a gravesite, should Knowledge (XXG), as the world's premier encyclopedia, style it to fit a tight in-house box? And is there an n-gram on this, nobody has put one up yet. That would at least show a faded picture of how the district was defined in 2008 (I haven't figured out how to work the n-gram with commas within the searched-for term).

999: 978: 2313:(totally within the guidelines and closes) have been sort of bullied away, and even I have given up on saving the real names of other people, ships, etc. and have stuck to the King pages. The rest of the King pages seem to tilt towards the comma, and so if those are RM'ed I would hope that there can be a totally unbiased closer or even a team of closers (as in the Hillary Clinton close) who will give all sides an equal viewing (your close language here does seem to imply a bias, no?). 331: 3588:. It closed with a consensus to drop the comma (the closer also inserted some personal preference about maybe "grandfathering" old articles, but actual consensus in practice at RM has not done this, and WP has no means by which to do it – there is not and never has been a principle by which guidelines or policies can be ignored at an article simply because it's older than another one). What we're left with in s case like this is whether there's a compelling reason to ignore 259: 1450: 1429: 2375:

involved in questioning the decision to interpret policies and guidelines to obtain a result (there was also a renaming of a ship which resulted in one of the vocal editors leaving these discussions). On this Historic District RM, the problem seems to have been the National Park Service's website, which contains mixed messages as to this comma. That doesn't exist at the King Memorial page which has been announced as possibly the next RM

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the new, but altered, name. So this RM was originally for a full rename. Changing part of it before the close in a good faith edit, and because Sarek did not add the comma which is included in the official name of the Historical Park, does seem, per your comment, to have changed the focus of the full RM and hopefully the closer and other reviewers will take that mid-discussion change into account.

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rethinking your objection because of this specific language. The reason the RM request includes the name 'Historical Park' is that new legislation was signed last week changing the name from 'site' to 'Historical Park' (the legislation also expanded the park). The new name includes the single comma, and this name was then duplicated by the National Park Service website.

890: 2865:, it's the man's name for God's sake, and it's the new and official name of the National Park, and the comma is chiseled right there, onto King's grave, until someone fills it in with marble-colored cement. But as a veteran of the comma wars I have PT,SD and so will watch this nom as other people swarm it, to see if it gets enough support to saddle up my horse (named 869: 2326:. This is how Knowledge (XXG) works, and it astounds me that you have been around as long as you have without learning that. You are a textbook one-man crusade, and I implore you, once again, to stop. Or, if you like, take the whole issue to a max-public venue like VPP or ANI (or ArbCom) and we can all have it out once and for all. We shall call it Commagate. ― 1523:

otherwise stripping out those claims. Because a) it is an urban area and this is not a natural seascape or landscape area that might be eligible for IUCN designation; and b) it is not documented that this is IUCN designated. In fact there was a hidden comment in the infobox: "Note: site is not listed in IUCN database, but appears to conform with Category V".

1009: 3486:, since I haven't actually ivoted as yet, as I was waiting for the styling determination of the National Park Service. The styling of the comma here by both the national legislation and the Park Service agree with the nom, and since MOS:JR does not apply, the styling, even if deemed incorrect by some because it only uses one comma, is, just that, styling. 3812:

editors ivoted using WP:JR as the basis for their decision. You weren't correct, although editors were led to believe that you were. Where are the other numerous discussions, and where on each of them (or on any of them) is it first made clear to commenting editors that WP:JR does not apply to things named for people.

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because it is a thing named after a person. And no, I have no intention, nor would keeping the comma on this page, to say WP:JR should go. It is settled for individuals. Yet it has nothing to do with things named for people, or for fictional names of films or other works of art. These are the exceptions to WP:JR.

3366:

that the two commas should be used (I shouldn't have added "either one..."), and your reference to, but not outright agreement of the language in the Chicago manual, indicated you may have changed your mind and now believe that the title shouldn't contain the commas. I was just trying to clarify your position.

3302:(1993), the recommendation is to use no commas in either case . But please note that within text, if you decide to use the more traditional comma before Jr. or Sr., the function of the comma is to set off these abbreviations, so an additional comma is needed after the abbreviation if the sentence continues. 2370:, you're probably right on this one, although changing the real name of the place should be problematic and actually worrisome for an encyclopedia. Had asked for a different closer because of precedent for the next RM's on this subject, hopefully a closer who takes every piece of data into consideration. 4269:

Your "to summarize" section is just a restatement of what you've already said in your support !vote, and indeed your "want to support" vote from earlier. It is not an objective summary of the debate as it stands, and in any case summarizing the debate should be left up to a closer, not to an involved

3996:

problems, since mainstream English doesn't use the comma this way any longer; your preferred title is neither more or less recognizable or precise. There is thus no reason to abandon a five-star name for what we could call a two- or perhaps two-and-a-half-star name. Especially when consistency is the

3976:

emotive claptrap, and you choose to include yours within that circle, that's on you not me, and you have no basis on which to claim offense. As for what I've left at your talk page (not about this in partiuclar, but about your involvement in style and titles discussions on Knowledge (XXG) generally,

3811:

You are still using WP:JR as an argument, which does not apply to things named for people. For example, there is an RM on this very page, from June, 2016, which you opened and commented on largely based on WP:JR. Editors took your word for it, assuming that you were correct, and all of the supporting

3720:

As for common name and article titles, as I point out above, the language reads "Knowledge (XXG) does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources."

3365:

Read it as you requesting that there be two commas if commas are used, and combined with your statement earlier that you didn't care if commas were used but if they are it should be zero or two, although if they were to be added then two would be the styling choice. The question was if you now agreed

3100:

Not "95%". 51. The National Park Service has gone on record duplicating the signed legislation about the page's subject, the "Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historical Park". The National Park Service, by using the comma - which they didn't use as the main title on the official website page for the

2374:

may think consensus is counting noses ("one does not have to be convinced, only outnumbered"), so the energy of his "astonishment" at me not knowing that can be used to educate himself about consensus. And check out the RM discussion at Joseph Kennedy Sr. for a time when more editors than myself were

4221:

The official name of the Park contains the comma. Since MOS:JR is listed in two guidelines, we should first look to the guideline which handles naming conventions of people. It says specifically (and in boldface) that the guidelines on the page do not cover things named after people. So the argument

3774:

That was written when I thought that WP:JR applied to the discussion. I was mistaken, it did not, and it does not, apply to things, such as the Memorial, named for people. Did you know that in June, 2016, when the last RM on this page was discussed and decided (see the RM above)? I'm certainly not a

3207:

I'm wondering how the National Park Service website is going to present the name. They haven't updated the language on their website as yet, at least as of a few minutes ago. If a few more supporters show up at this RM I may jump back in, but you guys have convinced most of Knowledge (XXG)'s editors

3399:

is off the table because this is not a person is just WikiLawyering, in my view, the guideline de facto covers cases like this, even if it explicitly limits itself to just human names). The debate about double commas above also highlights why the decision to omit them altogether was probably a good

3095:

WP:COMMONNAME is contained within the WP:ARTICLETITLES page, and also favors the use of the comma per the language: , and that means 51%. "Knowledge (XXG) does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to

2406:

The guideline does not refer to predominance of reliable sources, but says "clearly and consistently preferred". This is a higher bar than is usually applied to Knowledge (XXG) content, and this has been pointed out to you countless times, to apparently deaf ears. You don't like that clause, so you

2273:

may be the next RM, but that one is pretty obviously the well used common name, so I hope a precedent isn't set here of a close by someone who maybe has an already set opinion. Thanks, and no offense intended, just want to make sure the Memorial and the King page itself are given a very fair chance

2178:

Randy, your attachment to a comma in Dr. King's name is remarkably intense. But many sources, including our National Park Service, don't agree with you on that, and freely change the styling in different contexts. There is no "wrong information" involved in these various stylings. The full range

2166:

Not understanding how people who "vote" on these things get so caught up with the Manual Of Style, rules and regs and guidelines that a few of them spend literally every day creating and tinkering with. Yet they seem to forget that this is not a newspaper. It's not a magazine. It's an encyclopedia.

1561:

In the last year, this article's title has had every combination of commas before and after the "Jr.". Two of these, with two commas or with no commas, are acceptable styles, according to most English grammar guides, while the current title and the other one-comma title are not. Should we fix this?

4308:

The article was named "...National Historic Site" and the rename, including the comma, was for "...National Historical Park", which was changed by Sarek a couple of days ago because nobody objected to that part and probably because it was making Knowledge (XXG) look behind-the-times by not showing

4151:

Re first point, consistency with what? Real life is littered with examples of things named after people / places that do not match exactly. Nobody has made an affirmative case that the comma (in the Park) is omitted in common usage, so the weak "official name" wins by default. (If somehow there

3710:

In this RM I've presented and am presenting relevant and hopefully determinative information which I've only recently read (in the June, 2016, RM I trusted other editors that the use of WP:JR on this page was covered by some kind of law when, again, it's the opposite). So in any case, much of your

3606:

I don't see such a compelling reason. RS do not use a consistent style, so we default to what MoS says to do (always, regardless what the style question is – punctuation, capitalization, etc.). Overriding MoS happens only when the vast majority of modern RS use a divergent style consistently, and

3440:

in the guideline language is boldfaced there, for emphasis. This Historical Park is a place named after a person, so yes, it's off the table. Please don't try to confuse the closer or other editors by claiming this is wikilawyering, it's the opposite (wiki-public defendering?), and please consider

3696:

Please reread some of what you wrote. You've been accusing me of the strangest things lately, and threatening me with some kind of expulsion, and just did it again above. Please apologize, and understand what you are writing. First of all, your first sentence, telling the closer and other editors

3630:

wikilawyering to try to escape MOS:JR scope. The explicit intent of the RfC about it was to cover cases like this; the consistent RM interpretation has been that it does other than for titles of published works; and there is no rationale for punctuating the name differently in the bio and things

3526:

No, I was holding off becoming involved in the comma wars again (PT,SD) and waiting for the National Park Service to make a decision. The Park Service took awhile, but eventually it put up their new page and followed the name in the congressional legislation. Since that styling is understandable,

1883:

as does the famous tomb of Martin Luther King, Jr. We are an encyclopedia. We report on "what is", and this site is assuredly named 'Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site' (from the get-go until today). And yes, importantly, it contains the man's commaized tomb, an international point of

4194:

Generally better left for the closure, which is coming today anyway. Tt's not likely to arouse a fight in this particular case, but I've seen massive drama ensue when pages are moved in mid-RM. The closer would be smart enough to realize there's consensus for the "Park" thing and no consensus to

2730:

that was not particular on applying to people or on that basis; while there was debate below over its applicability, no clear argument was put for that wider consensus in that RfC to not be applicable; thus this close is also based on the fact that a wider consensus exists against using a comma.

2409:

Further, "consensus is not about numbers" does not mean that we can unilaterally declare a consensus void because we disagree with it. Again, if you disagree, take it to a higher level. If you don't, someone else will, and it probably won't be VPP. I think I've been very civil by Knowledge (XXG)

4028:

The guideline says "most frequently used in English. That's 51%, and the official name used by the National Park Service should push that usage to a majority. You and others are still arguing WP:JR, which, I've opined and discussed and continue discussing below, has nothing to do with this page

2293:

and are therefore uncontroversial, and maybe one or two other closes of clear RM requests. This one is also a clear cut application of that guideline, given the weight of support and the arguments made, so respectfully again I will not be reversing what to me is a very obvious close. Take it to

1522:

Parts or all of the site are variously designated as NRHP-listed, a NHL district, and/or a National Historic Site. The article included a Protected Areas infobox but it is not an international IUCN-designated natural environmental protected area, so i am removing the Protected area infobox and

4254:

Other editors are adding further information and clarifying, so please add their names to your above statement. I've seen many discussions, including this one, where comments by already participating editors are put forward, so I don't know why you are particularly concerned about my seemingly

2312:

I don't recall a vote but I seem to recall a comment or two in favor of comma-less pages, although I may be wrong also. But your close here does show that you think there is a year-long consensus on this while, if you had followed it, editors who were for exceptions and grandfathering of pages

2264:

is a good idea, even if someone else will come by and close it the same way. So could you please reverse this one, and I ask a new closer to carefully read my statements on the RM. As for "The comma can be used in cases where it is clearly and consistently preferred for a particular subject in

2197:

It isn't a 'styling', it is the real name of an iconic figure in world history. And the district where he lived, did his work, worshipped, and is buried, is named the Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic District. It is the common name of the district. The paperwork and signage naming the

2284:

Actually Randy, I have no opinion at all on the Jr. question, and I don't believe I've ever voted support or oppose in any discussion on the topic. Correct me if I'm wrong. And my only involvement with this specific article was to move it back to the original title with the comma after it was

3222:

FYI, the NBC news article as both style forms within their article, so they are not a model of consistency. I can see using the WP style guide within the article, but it still seems absurd not to use the formal name as the article title... not that I am going to lose any sleep over it. —

2137:, the RfC behind it, and the entirely consistent no-commas result in the Jr./Sr. RMs since the RfC. This is a routine, speediable move by this point. (As for the version with only one comma, that was just grammatically wrong, even in an era when the comma use was common in US English.) 3541:

My exact objection is that it is en.wp style to omit the comma, in agreement with essentially all modern style guides, to avoid the discordant grammatical error of the unmatched comma that is so grating, even when written into law by the idiots we elected and their illiterate staff.

2322:"Bullied away" is your spin for "deferred to a consensus they strongly disagreed with". You might try it. One does not have to be convinced, only outnumbered, and you couldn't be more outnumbered. This applies even if you perceive abuses of process, such as the grandfathering issue, 4071:

both the comma and "park". I'm not sold that the COMMONNAME is to omit the comma, and parks really are separate from people, so I wouldn't consider it Wikilawyering or an obscure exemption or anything to ignore WP guidelines for naming of people with commas in their name.

3119:

In summary, MOS:Jr has nothing to do with this RM. It covers the names of individual people, not things named after individual people. And the official name of the Historical Park only has to be used by a majority of sources, 51 percent, and not a massive plurality. I hope,

1657:, and reams and reams of other discussion. And the local consensus here once again backs up that wide community consensus. Supporters outnumber opposers heavily, and cite reasonable evidence including reliable sources and a stone at the site to suggest that the condition " 3980:

Government documents about this national historic site, which exists as such only because of those documents, are not independent sources. We already had the discussion of whether a significant majority of independent RS still use the comma in King's name and they do

3184:

changing Historic Site to Historical Park. The old official name "Martin Luther King, Junior, National Historic Site" at least didn't have the mismatched comma error legislated into it. But there's no reason we can't follow modern style guides and do it right, like

1562:

Sometimes editors prefer to use the "official" name that the National Park Service uses. That's the one I moved to after an editor made the silly title with only a comma after Jr. But that got switched to the current odd title at some point. What's that about?

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Then you're trying to set up some kind of war between COMMONNAME and CONSISTENCY, on the false belief that COMMONNAME means "51%"; it does not, and is very clear about this: "prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language

4447: 3965:. In this case, it's an argument about what MLK's "real name" is, which pertains to what the article about him should be titled, and is not an argument for how to name things that mention him after we've already determined what to title his article. 3775:

wikilawyer, that's apparent from me not knowing that WP:JR did not apply, and what I was doing was trusting you and others that it did. Hopefully, because you supported it "per WP:JR", you are as surprised as I am in finding out that it does not.

153: 1840:

The sign you linked to with the stylized commas-as-lines also has many photos above and below it. Hopefully the closer will look at those (and research this RM for a couple of hours, making a mental map of the data, before a decision is made).

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Sure, it can be argued, but all the prior history of consensus discussions is against you on this. The fact that the no-comma-before-Jr style is expressed in a section on bios doesn't mean it's less applicable to names in other contexts.

3684:

Most of your argument above centers on WP:JR,, or about overriding it in this RM. That guideline has nothing to do with this RM. You and others are so used to using WP:JR that you are ignoring the language of the page, which asks us in

1712:, I have now reverted this to the version of the article that stood between 2009 and 2015, and which features two offsetting commas rather than one unbalanced one. The move request to a no comma version can still stand though. Pinging 2703:

to the park (already done), but no addition of comma. The "no comma" was decided by a consensus in a last RM and is the status quo, so would require a consensus to change. But it is roughly against on the basis of consistency.

2352:

For whatever it's worth, as someone who is a regular RM closer, I endorse Amakuru's decision here. I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint Randy, but I think it's clear that in this case at least there was a clear consensus to move.

3252:

MOS:JR is off the table for this RM, as I pointed out to CookieMonster above. Since the page and RM are about a place named after an individual and not an individual, they are not covered by MOS:JR, and there is no deviation.

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and the frequency with which you poison them with personalized aspersions and an explicitly stated mission to "correct" and "preserve" on a prescriptive traditionalism basis), I encourage anyone who cares to go read it.

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apply to names generally, not just in titles of biographies. This is just one example of what you've asked for, where it was applied to a topic where "official" sources have included a comma. It's still "settled".

4155:

Re your 2nd point on IAR, it is generally a safe assumption that if someone disagrees with you, it is not because they know that your interpretation of the guidelines is 100% correct but are just being perverse.

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is considering, and which has an overabundance of comma-evidence. Still wondering what an n-gram on this Historic District page would show, does anyone know how to do an n-gram which includes a comma? Thanks.

926: 708: 3725:. So that's 51% of the time, not 95 percent. The language seems to suggest using the official name if it also meets the 51% threshold, which, with the Park's naming by the National Park Service, it should. 1815: 4183:

It's not a good idea to leave the park part of the move hanging while we argue about commas, so I've performed that part of the move, leaving the first part at the status quo. Discussion can continue. --

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which is notoriously bad when it comes to punctuation and various other matters. We have our own style guide, which eschews this comma, as do so many others. This is precisely why we had a big RfC at

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use of an unbalanced comma. The U.S. government can choose to ignore one of the basic rules of English punctuation—that a comma before Jr. in running text is followed by one after it—but we should not.

1653:. With regrets to Randy Kryn, who feels very strongly about this topic, but the community consensus on the Jr. comma issue has become very clear over the past year, through the latest RfC leading to 793: 642: 1920:

Again, we are an encyclopedia. A bar that is set at 'consistent' is no bar at all, I've seen people here use that term to mean that if a few sources lack a comma then they take it to mean that our

2211:

treat is a styling issue, and contrast different styles; in particular the no-comma and two-comma styles (with MLK Jr. as their example), since the one-comma style is really a grammatical error.

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at all; it's the default name to pick to test against the criteria and see if they fit. The present name of this article fits all of the criteria; the one you want to use fails WP:CONSISTENT and

3236:

They use the comma in he name of the legal Act, and in a quote; otherwise, in half dozen places, no comma. Similarly, en.wp uses the comma in names of legal cases, but not where it's optional.

734: 3734:

And as for consistency, where else has the official name of a historical site been changed because of a styling difference? Let's stay consistent with that naming tradition on Knowledge (XXG).

3328:

Would you agree, though, that since MOS:JR doesn't apply, and that the legislation as well as the National Park Service both use the comma, that either one comma or two commas should be used?

1924:

should toss out all the sources, real life information, chiseled-in-stone data (literally), and common sense as well as common name, and shift our perspective to, again literally, misinform.

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Thanks for admitting that it's a styling decision, Randy. That's progress since last time. And no reason to follow someone else's style when en.wp has its own. And when you said before,

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are determined to ignore it. Given the sources we already have, no amount of n-grams supporting the comma would clear that threshold, so I'm lost as to why you're talking about n-grams.

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concise, and marks off every other box asked for in Knowledge (XXG)'s titling criteria, there is no reason not to go along with the official name. What are your exact objections?

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outright what you decree as my intentions. You are not very good at that. What you describe as "The emotive arguments presented for the comma are arguments to rename

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to relitigate MOS:JR indefinitely I cannot say (not psychic), but this would have the result of it, so who cares? "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

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Randy, why do you insist on your position summary masquerading as a summary of the section. You already made two support sections above; is that not plenty?

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Repeated assertion that MOS:JR somehow doesn't apply here when we all know – from previous RM experience – that it does won't change anything. That's just "

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use it for things named after people. WP:JR was used almost exclusively in the June, 2016 RM which obviously now, in hindsight, incorrectly moved this page.

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CookieMonster above invoked COMMONNAME to dispute using a comma. I addressed my take on the styling issue above - it applies to people, not to parks.

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was copy-forked into the people-naming guideline. So yes, you're right, the people-naming guideline is not the relevant one. Look at the MOS.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090513010639/http://www.gainformer.com/Files/International%20Civil%20Rights%20Walk%20of%20Fame%20Inductees.htm

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I don't know what your concern is about consistency. Are there other major National Historical Parks pages which relate to this RM? Thanks.

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The previous move request for this article resulted in no comma being used, therefore I don't think this move request is uncontroversial.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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that can vary depending on context and usage—not as the essential parts of the name that you so adamantly assert without foundation. ―

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I guess I don't understand the background of the comma war. Why would Knowledge (XXG) remove it, if it is part of the official name

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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The comma can be used in cases where it is clearly and consistently preferred for a particular subject in current, reliable sources

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does not apply (contrary to the evidence in all the previous RM discussions where it did apply). Can you point it out at least?

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Note that Randy claims below that this is not a support, so his support below is not a !double !vote. Don't !count it !twice.

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That stylized-comma replacement is interesting, but the building surrounding it has the comma along the name on the top of it.

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the name on the building includes the comma (see large photo - nobody has chiseled off the comma as yet - and surrounding text)

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central issue – we should not set up a situation that inspires further pointless dispute over punctuation trivia. Whether you

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is irrelevant. What are not irrelevant are the dozens of other style guidelines that say commas come in pairs, including the

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Yes we can stipulate that styles vary, on signs and other sources. So there's no problem going with WP's preferred style.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090131023247/http://tps.cr.nps.gov/nhl/detail.cfm?ResourceId=1430&ResourceType=District

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here is the direct National Historic site paperwork (commas included, but it does show a comma both before and after Jr.)

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initiall moved without discussion. I have moved a few other Jr articles in recent months, but only when they appear at

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were subtopics - like Historical Park East, Historical Park Statue, etc. - then sure, they should all be consistent.)

1871:, this is the oddest one yet. The name of the place includes the comma, although maybe with another comma after Jr.: 1811: 1256: 671: 552: 423: 4392: 4318: 4299: 4279: 4264: 4249: 4235: 4211: 4189: 4165: 4146: 4113: 4099: 4081: 4063: 4038: 4021: 3902: 3887: 3869: 3839: 3821: 3806: 3784: 3769: 3743: 3667: 3551: 3536: 3521: 3495: 3472: 3450: 3409: 3400:

one. I'm neutral on the "site" vs "park" question, I don't have enough data right now to determine that. Thanks —

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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This one should have a few pings, and also alerts to our American History, Georgia, and other related projects.

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Correct, I did finally support this RM after much more information came in, including the fact that WP:JR does

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I don't think it's possible to do an ngram that differentiates between versions with a comma and those without.

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the 17th, 18th, and 19th items on this one, showing the National Park paperwork on the site (commas included)

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COMMONNAME has nothing to do with the comma. The comma is a styling issue, not a name selection issue.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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that King's name without the comma is set in stone (even as his name with a comma is carved in stone).

2578:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 2468:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 70: 4388: 4314: 4260: 4231: 4059: 4034: 3883: 3817: 3780: 3739: 3532: 3491: 3446: 3426: 3371: 3333: 3258: 3213: 3129: 3063: 2914: 2878: 1205: 838: 282: 3993: 3989: 3973: 1786:

and noting that the comma-free styling is among the styles in use, even in official sources such as

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Understood. More than a little pointless while this RM is open, but whatever. Thanks for the ping. ―

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Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between

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http://www.gainformer.com/Files/International%20Civil%20Rights%20Walk%20of%20Fame%20Inductees.htm

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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standards, but I'm pretty close to exhausting my patience, and I don't think I'm the only one. ―

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is the issue here: WP doesn't move articles to match official names. WP doesn't follow the

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sites former name - will guarantee that at least 51% of sources will use the official name.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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To answer your objections. MOS:JR does not apply to this RM. MOS:JR is on the page

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and MoS. The emotive arguments presented for the comma are arguments to rename

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Randy is both right and wrong. Knowledge (XXG)'s style guideline concerning the

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refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." The language reads:

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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http://tps.cr.nps.gov/nhl/detail.cfm?ResourceId=1430&ResourceType=District

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The closer has participated in comma discussions, so I don't think a close by

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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Forget all the other reliable sources for the moment. Survey of treatment on

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And the claim that the comma is "official" is not supported by a look at the

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Start-Class National Register of Historic Places articles of High-importance

2042:. As I've written before, when used in text (as in this article's title or 1818:

used two, but that's not the preferred WP style). See also precedents at

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Let's choose an even number of commas, either zero or two, but not one. —

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on the deletion of articles related to Georgia (U.S. state) - compiled by

3953:" has nothing to do with intent (I'm not a mind reader) but with whether 2722:, to say that "no comma" was also decided as a general style as part of 1736:

who already voted so they're aware of this change to the status quo. —

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in the titles, which is also one of King's two common names. Thanks.

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unless you care to take the question to a higher level for discussion

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Tag the talk pages of Georgia (U.S. state)-related articles with the

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changing "National Historic Site" to "National Historical Park" but

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project banner to Atlanta-related articles to talk pages and assess.

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When I complain that some arguments being presented are a bunch of

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Talk:Martin_Luther_King_Jr._Memorial#Requested_move_22_January_2017

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Absolutely not. You seem to have missed everything else I wrote. —

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Talk:Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Library#Requested move 4 May 2016

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With MOS:JR. off the table, you have a concern about COMMONNAME.

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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject National Register of Historic Places

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policy. If you threw out MOS:JR, the page would still not move.

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named after the subject of the bio (doing so would be against

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does not apply here, but the MOS section that it forked from,

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Maintain and further improve articles already of high-quality.

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High-importance National Register of Historic Places articles

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which contains WP:JR is quite specific: "This guideline does

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Talk:Martin Luther King, Jr. Day#Requested move 22 April 2016

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Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Georgia (U.S. state)

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more Georgia (U.S. state) articles missing geocoordinate data

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Like many things in life, commas tend to travel in pairs. —

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per new policies about JR and commas. This is normal work.

2046:(thanks Randy)), the abbreviation "Jr." should either have 2582:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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if you think there's something wrong with this. Thanks —

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Start-Class National Register of Historic Places articles

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Removing or adding a Sr/Jr comma is not really a rename.

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When I say Wikilawyering I am talking about item #2 from

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Strom Thurmond filibuster of the Civil Rights Act of 1957

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Template:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places

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Category:Georgia (U.S. state) articles needing attention

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while COMMONNAME is not, because ... why? Spin us your

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User:Mitchumch/Movement templates#Civil Rights Movement

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Improve groups of articles to meet the standards for a

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Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Georgia (U.S. state)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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of stylings appears in encyclopedias, as you can see

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use of exact title as established in Federal Law. --

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Admin note: following discussino on my talk page at

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Tagging all relevant articles with project template.

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Next, you're just misunderstanding what I wrote. "

3789:But the consensus in numerous discussions was that 2694:. No further edits should be made to this section. 2614:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2504:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1644:. No further edits should be made to this section. 174: 4343:. No further edits should be made to this section. 2249:. No further edits should be made to this section. 532:|class=|importance=|atlanta=|atlanta-importance=}} 4350:Wiki Education assignment: Honors English 250HV10 3124:, that this has addressed your concerns. Thanks. 1040:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Civil Rights Movement 3826:I don't see where you're getting this idea that 2995: 2752:Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historical Park 1900:. It's a high bar, and it's intended to be so. ― 914:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places 664:Unknown-importance Georgia (U.S. state) articles 495:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Atlanta 296:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3984:Furthermore, COMMONNAME is not even one of the 2923:That's just wrong; the people-naming guideline 1678:Martin Luther King, Jr., National Historic Site 1518:NHS, NHLD, NRHP vs. Protected Area designations 1091:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historical Park 722:Georgia (U.S. state) articles without infoboxes 25:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historical Park 2600:This message was posted before February 2018. 2490:This message was posted before February 2018. 4458:Low-importance Civil Rights Movement articles 4255:guideline-based summarization above. Thanks. 3623:to match how he spelled it when he was alive. 2747:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site 2572:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site 2462:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site 1953:And then there is this sign on the stone wall 1683:Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site 1386:Hebrew Benevolent Congregation Temple bombing 1141:WikiProject Civil Rights Movement to do list: 941:National Register of Historic Places articles 8: 4413:Top-importance Georgia (U.S. state) articles 416:Category:Unknown-importance Atlanta articles 3924:I didn't say anything about an "RfC above". 3506:I really want to support this...really I do 3056:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (people) 906:National Register of Historic Places portal 522:Category:Atlanta articles needing attention 188: 4463:WikiProject Civil Rights Movement articles 4453:Start-Class Civil Rights Movement articles 3635:policy). This is pure desperation to keep 3581:US Government Printing Office Style Manual 2680:The following is a closed discussion of a 2570:I have just modified one external link on 2460:I have just modified one external link on 1630:The following is a closed discussion of a 1475:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Historic sites 1423: 1188:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 1137: 1043:Template:WikiProject Civil Rights Movement 972: 863: 678:Unreferenced Georgia (U.S. state) articles 619:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 573: 399:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 353: 216: 4433:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) articles 4408:Start-Class Georgia (U.S. state) articles 3934:This should remain without the comma per 3844:Oh, I see the problem; you're looking at 1966:the National Park Service's main web page 1350:Youth March for Integrated Schools (1959) 1346:Youth March for Integrated Schools (1958) 482:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Atlanta 299:Template:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) 3298:eginning with the fourteenth edition of 3022:. Don't include a comma per COMMONNAME, 766:Georgia (U.S. state) radio station stubs 660:Unassessed Georgia (U.S. state) articles 3596:reason but a countervailing guideline, 2790:This is a contested technical request ( 2718:Amending close based on a request from 2044:in the National Historic site paperwork 1542:should move to a separate article imho 1425: 1398:Mansfield school desegregation incident 1213:(North Carolina) (currently a redirect) 974: 865: 577:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) To-do: 218: 4473:Low-importance Historic sites articles 3460: 1658: 841:to a featured article quality standard 3723:the name that is most frequently used 3639:against MOS:JR, and that has to stop. 3098:the name that is most frequently used 2699:The result of the move request was: 7: 4054:the comma for reasons stated above. 1710:User talk:Amakuru#Comma fix in title 1649:The result of the move request was: 1455:This article is within the scope of 1020:This article is within the scope of 932:National Register of Historic Places 923:National Register of Historic Places 911:This article is within the scope of 875:National Register of Historic Places 774:Georgia (U.S. state) geography stubs 270:This article is within the scope of 4478:WikiProject Historic sites articles 4468:Start-Class Historic sites articles 4122:policy, which is one of the actual 3575:, not this article in particular. 3425:cover...things named after people ( 3062:cover...things named after people ( 1478:Template:WikiProject Historic sites 520:* Help out with articles placed in 410:Rate Atlanta related articles from 207:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 4364: 4360: 1358:16th Street Baptist Church bombing 469:Atlanta articles without infoboxes 14: 2574:. Please take a moment to review 2464:. Please take a moment to review 2209:The Best Punctuation Book, Period 1291:Cambridge movement (civil rights) 1199:All redlinked articles listed at 1023:WikiProject Civil Rights Movement 816:Articles with notability concerns 803:Help out with articles placed in 50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 4367:. Further details are available 4354: 3957:is an argument that pertains to 2988:Darned good question, Eoghanact. 2271:Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial 1581:- default is no comma. Moving. ― 1448: 1427: 1275:And the Walls Came Tumbling Down 1179: 1007: 997: 976: 898: 888: 867: 829:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) 691:Cleanup listing for this project 610: 530:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) 443:Cleanup listing for this project 390: 273:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) 257: 247: 220: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 4423:Top-importance Atlanta articles 3273:naming of biographical articles 2256:Maybe a new closer on this one? 2056:The current name is just wrong. 1577:New consensus and guideline at 1495:This article has been rated as 1060:This article has been rated as 955:This article has been rated as 770:Georgia (U.S. state) road stubs 316:This article has been rated as 4393:14:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC) 3850:WP:Naming conventions (people) 1046:Civil Rights Movement articles 1: 4383:— Assignment last updated by 4196: 4131: 4006: 3921:To respond to Randy's stuff: 3647: 3436:), or gods and deities." The 2741:16:46, 24 February 2018 (UTC) 2673:Requested move 9 January 2018 2668:19:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC) 2138: 1572:06:04, 24 December 2015 (UTC) 1557:Commas: too many, or too few? 1469:and see a list of open tasks. 1342:Prayer Pilgrimage for Freedom 1034:and see a list of open tasks. 929:and see a list of open tasks. 760:Work on stubs in articles in 430:Unreferenced Atlanta articles 338:This article is supported by 302:Georgia (U.S. state) articles 290:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 4418:Start-Class Atlanta articles 4319:10:35, 21 January 2018 (UTC) 4300:06:17, 21 January 2018 (UTC) 4280:13:03, 22 January 2018 (UTC) 4265:10:35, 21 January 2018 (UTC) 4250:16:19, 20 January 2018 (UTC) 4236:20:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4212:18:54, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4190:18:48, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4166:19:44, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4147:18:46, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4114:06:43, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4100:03:33, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4082:23:51, 18 January 2018 (UTC) 4064:21:11, 18 January 2018 (UTC) 4039:20:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 4022:18:44, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 3903:03:45, 18 January 2018 (UTC) 3888:00:19, 18 January 2018 (UTC) 3870:19:58, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3840:19:45, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3822:11:42, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3807:05:26, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3785:04:46, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3770:03:55, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3744:21:41, 16 January 2018 (UTC) 3668:19:14, 16 January 2018 (UTC) 3645:to match the changed status. 3552:05:29, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 3537:03:48, 16 January 2018 (UTC) 3522:03:39, 16 January 2018 (UTC) 3496:23:15, 15 January 2018 (UTC) 3473:15:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC) 3451:14:43, 13 January 2018 (UTC) 3410:13:43, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 3376:12:51, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 3357:12:35, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 3338:05:14, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 3320:05:04, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 3263:04:55, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 3246:02:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC) 3232:14:39, 10 January 2018 (UTC) 3218:04:23, 10 January 2018 (UTC) 3199:03:09, 10 January 2018 (UTC) 3169:02:58, 10 January 2018 (UTC) 3134:04:50, 12 January 2018 (UTC) 2996:#Requested move 28 June 2016 2945:20:04, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 2919:12:07, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 2901:05:35, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 2783:14:22, 18 January 2018 (UTC) 2714:06:26, 26 January 2018 (UTC) 1380:(image of actual strike) • 1015:Civil rights movement portal 799:WikiProject Deletion sorting 4428:Atlanta task force articles 4118:So, you're going to ignore 3643:But change "Site" to "Park" 3300:The Chicago Manual of Style 3046:19:26, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 3005:16:28, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 2983:16:23, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 2967:16:09, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 2883:15:47, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 2850:15:26, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 2817:15:26, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 2766:13:39, 9 January 2018 (UTC) 1808:this book on National Parks 1623:Requested move 28 June 2016 412:Unassessed Atlanta articles 265:Georgia (U.S. state) portal 4494: 3945:is really an argument for 3856:the content of the MOS at 3607:that isn't the case here. 2631:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2567:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2521:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2457:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2289:, because those adhere to 1501:project's importance scale 1458:WikiProject Historic sites 1247:, and upgrade to GA status 961:project's importance scale 762:Georgia (U.S. state) stubs 322:project's importance scale 3679:Here is the link you left 3075:things named after people 2203:12:04, 30 June 2016 (UTC) 2193:07:09, 30 June 2016 (UTC) 2159:21:56, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 2126:21:26, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 2110:07:36, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 2090:01:31, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 2069:01:25, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 2035:00:54, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 2016:00:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1988:01:01, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1960:00:58, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1947:00:40, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1929:00:24, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1916:00:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1889:23:55, 28 June 2015 (UTC) 1860:02:38, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1846:00:38, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1836:23:26, 28 June 2016 (UTC) 1768:07:11, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1746:07:07, 29 June 2016 (UTC) 1700:23:05, 28 June 2016 (UTC) 1494: 1443: 1378:Memphis sanitation strike 1136: 1127: 1081: 1059: 992: 954: 883: 794:collection of discussions 572: 455:the index of WikiProjects 357:Atlanta task force To-do: 352: 337: 315: 242: 215: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 4336:Please do not modify it. 2994:for more info. See also 2687:Please do not modify it. 2558:09:22, 4 June 2017 (UTC) 2439:22:12, 8 July 2016 (UTC) 2426:13:54, 8 July 2016 (UTC) 2402:13:40, 8 July 2016 (UTC) 2385:13:26, 8 July 2016 (UTC) 2363:08:35, 8 July 2016 (UTC) 2342:04:51, 8 July 2016 (UTC) 2318:23:48, 7 July 2016 (UTC) 2308:23:26, 7 July 2016 (UTC) 2279:22:57, 7 July 2016 (UTC) 2274:of keeping their names. 2242:Please do not modify it. 2221:03:50, 1 July 2016 (UTC) 2171:1:11, 30 June 2016 (UTC) 1800:National Park Foundation 1671:22:28, 7 July 2016 (UTC) 1637:Please do not modify it. 1617:06:58, 14 May 2016 (UTC) 1597:15:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC) 1552:20:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC) 1402:Bloody Monday (Danville) 703:Geographical coordinates 635:Ed Defore Sports Complex 3287:. Please note what the 3284:Chicago Manual of Style 2871:ride back into the fray 2563:External links modified 2453:External links modified 1816:law that established it 1533:18:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC) 1481:Historic sites articles 1390:Baton Rouge bus boycott 1370:Tallahassee bus boycott 1368:(image of wade-ins) • 1354:Birmingham riot of 1963 1221:Delano Herman Middleton 693:is available. See also 631:Crooked Creek (Georgia) 445:is available. See also 3699:Martin Luther King Jr. 3573:Martin Luther King Jr. 2164:Comment for the closer 2131:Support without commas 2001:Support with no commas 1360:(image of bombing) • 1233:(currently a redirect) 1228:(currently a redirect) 1223:(currently a redirect) 1218:(currently a redirect) 1078: 820:WikiProject Notability 509:Category:Atlanta stubs 341:the Atlanta task force 334: 197:This article is rated 75:avoid personal attacks 3756:Did you forget about 3721:That language reads: 1879:. Then the fact that 1374:Tent City (Tennessee) 1362:Bloody Tuesday (1964) 1077: 1037:Civil Rights Movement 1028:Civil Rights Movement 984:Civil Rights Movement 333: 201:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 100:Neutral point of view 4186:SarekOfVulcan (talk) 3427:Basilica of St Denis 3064:Basilica of St Denis 3001:SarekOfVulcan (talk) 2963:SarekOfVulcan (talk) 2612:regular verification 2502:regular verification 1937:you invoke, Randy. 839:Georgia (U.S. state) 695:the list by category 451:the tool's wiki page 447:the list by category 293:Georgia (U.S. state) 228:Georgia (U.S. state) 105:No original research 4371:. Peer reviewers: 3621:CAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR 2602:After February 2018 2492:After February 2018 2003:– per nom. Cheers! 1810:(others use one or 1394:Orangeburg massacre 1250:Black Arts Movement 1231:Henry Ezekial Smith 1226:Charles Eddie Moore 1211:Greensboro movement 1203:need to be created. 1172:Edit the tasks list 658:Rate articles from 4369:on the course page 4195:re-add the comma. 3929:proof by assertion 3637:WP:BATTLEGROUNDing 3613:not a style policy 3419:The guideline page 2656:InternetArchiveBot 2607:InternetArchiveBot 2546:InternetArchiveBot 2497:InternetArchiveBot 2432:Martin Luther King 2269:has said that the 1338:March Against Fear 1216:Henry Hezekiah Dee 1079: 335: 203:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 4292:Anthony Appleyard 4270:party. Thanks — 4224:WP:Article titles 3433:Queen Elizabeth 2 3070:Queen Elizabeth 2 2989: 2819: 2785: 2632: 2522: 1933:Be careful which 1792:this NPS web page 1748: 1661:" is not met. — 1515: 1514: 1511: 1510: 1507: 1506: 1422: 1421: 1418: 1417: 1414: 1413: 1410: 1409: 1382:Americus movement 1322:Gloria Richardson 1123: 1122: 971: 970: 967: 966: 862: 861: 858: 857: 854: 853: 850: 849: 791:: Please see the 643:More (Georgia)... 639:Audery Mill Creek 568: 567: 564: 563: 540:Get Atlanta into 507:Work on stubs in 183: 182: 66:Assume good faith 43: 4485: 4395: 4366: 4362: 4358: 4338: 4210: 4187: 4145: 4020: 3677:What RfC above? 3666: 3457:WP:Wikilawyering 3229: 3122:CookieMonster755 3043: 3041: 3036: 3035:CookieMonster755 3002: 2987: 2980: 2964: 2855:I really want to 2847: 2840: 2833: 2814: 2807: 2800: 2789: 2767: 2764: 2754: 2689: 2666: 2657: 2630: 2629: 2608: 2556: 2547: 2520: 2519: 2498: 2423: 2418: 2339: 2334: 2244: 2157: 2108: 2087: 2082: 2030:, more to come. 2014: 1985: 1980: 1913: 1908: 1770: 1765: 1760: 1707: 1685: 1639: 1594: 1589: 1483: 1482: 1479: 1476: 1473: 1452: 1445: 1444: 1439: 1431: 1424: 1318:J. Charles Jones 1314:Milton Galamison 1296:Browder v. Gayle 1208:(North Carolina) 1194:Article requests 1183: 1176: 1175: 1138: 1083: 1082: 1066:importance scale 1048: 1047: 1044: 1041: 1038: 1017: 1012: 1011: 1001: 994: 993: 988: 980: 973: 943: 942: 939: 936: 933: 908: 903: 902: 901: 892: 885: 884: 879: 871: 864: 833: 827: 788:Deletion sorting 625:Article requests 614: 607: 606: 574: 542:Featured article 533: 394: 387: 386: 354: 304: 303: 300: 297: 294: 267: 262: 261: 260: 251: 244: 243: 238: 235: 224: 217: 200: 194: 193: 185: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 4493: 4492: 4488: 4487: 4486: 4484: 4483: 4482: 4398: 4397: 4382: 4365:28 October 2022 4352: 4347: 4334: 4219:To summarize... 4185: 3964: 3960: 3956: 3952: 3948: 3944: 3664: 3577:WP:OFFICIALNAME 3355: 3318: 3225: 3176:deviating from 3167: 3039: 3034: 3032: 3020:WP:OFFICIALNAME 3000: 2976: 2962: 2843: 2836: 2829: 2810: 2803: 2796: 2760: 2750: 2685: 2675: 2660: 2655: 2623: 2616:have permission 2606: 2580:this simple FaQ 2565: 2550: 2545: 2513: 2506:have permission 2496: 2470:this simple FaQ 2455: 2421: 2412: 2337: 2328: 2258: 2253: 2240: 2155: 2120:✉cookiemonster✉ 2098: 2085: 2078: 2067: 2004: 1983: 1974: 1911: 1902: 1763: 1754: 1751: 1681: 1635: 1625: 1592: 1583: 1559: 1540: 1520: 1480: 1477: 1474: 1471: 1470: 1437: 1406: 1366:Biloxi wade-ins 1206:Durham movement 1174: 1169: 1119: 1045: 1042: 1039: 1036: 1035: 1013: 1006: 986: 957:High-importance 940: 937: 934: 931: 930: 904: 899: 897: 878:High‑importance 877: 846: 831: 825: 605: 560: 527: 385: 301: 298: 295: 292: 291: 263: 258: 256: 236: 230: 198: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 4491: 4489: 4481: 4480: 4475: 4470: 4465: 4460: 4455: 4450: 4445: 4440: 4435: 4430: 4425: 4420: 4415: 4410: 4400: 4399: 4361:29 August 2022 4351: 4348: 4346: 4345: 4331:requested move 4325: 4324: 4323: 4322: 4321: 4303: 4302: 4288: 4287: 4286: 4285: 4284: 4283: 4282: 4216: 4215: 4214: 4177: 4176: 4175: 4174: 4173: 4172: 4171: 4170: 4169: 4168: 4153: 4120:WP:CONSISTENCY 4085: 4084: 4066: 4048: 4047: 4046: 4045: 4044: 4043: 4042: 4041: 4004: 4003: 4002: 4000: 3982: 3978: 3970: 3966: 3962: 3958: 3954: 3950: 3946: 3942: 3939: 3932: 3925: 3919: 3918: 3917: 3916: 3915: 3914: 3913: 3912: 3911: 3910: 3909: 3908: 3907: 3906: 3905: 3842: 3749: 3748: 3747: 3746: 3729: 3728: 3727: 3726: 3715: 3714: 3713: 3712: 3705: 3704: 3703: 3702: 3694: 3682: 3672: 3671: 3662: 3646: 3633:WP:CONSISTENCY 3629: 3569:WP:CONSISTENCY 3561: 3560: 3559: 3558: 3557: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3508:that wasn't a 3499: 3498: 3480: 3479: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3475: 3413: 3412: 3389: 3388: 3387: 3386: 3385: 3384: 3383: 3382: 3381: 3380: 3379: 3378: 3360: 3359: 3351: 3341: 3340: 3323: 3322: 3314: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3303: 3293: 3292: 3289:Chicago Manual 3266: 3265: 3250: 3249: 3248: 3220: 3202: 3201: 3171: 3163: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3136: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3111: 3105: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3081: 3080: 3079: 3078: 3049: 3048: 3028:WP:CONSISTENCY 3009: 3008: 3007: 2969: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2886: 2885: 2852: 2821: 2820: 2744: 2697: 2696: 2682:requested move 2676: 2674: 2671: 2650: 2649: 2642: 2595: 2594: 2586:Added archive 2564: 2561: 2540: 2539: 2532: 2485: 2484: 2476:Added archive 2454: 2451: 2450: 2449: 2448: 2447: 2446: 2445: 2444: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2408: 2349: 2348: 2347: 2346: 2345: 2344: 2257: 2254: 2252: 2251: 2237:requested move 2231: 2230: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2223: 2207:Books such as 2173: 2172: 2161: 2153: 2128: 2112: 2092: 2076:per Mandruss. 2071: 2063: 2037: 2018: 1998: 1997: 1996: 1995: 1994: 1993: 1992: 1991: 1990: 1970:style elements 1955:of the place. 1891: 1866: 1865: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1780:Support as nom 1776: 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1676: 1674: 1647: 1646: 1632:requested move 1626: 1624: 1621: 1620: 1619: 1600: 1599: 1558: 1555: 1539: 1536: 1519: 1516: 1513: 1512: 1509: 1508: 1505: 1504: 1497:Low-importance 1493: 1487: 1486: 1484: 1472:Historic sites 1467:the discussion 1463:historic sites 1453: 1441: 1440: 1438:Low‑importance 1435:Historic sites 1432: 1420: 1419: 1416: 1415: 1412: 1411: 1408: 1407: 1405: 1404: 1334:Freedom Summer 1330:Freedom Riders 1326:Richard Durham 1303: 1299: 1293: 1289: 1282: 1278: 1263: 1252: 1248: 1234: 1229: 1224: 1219: 1214: 1209: 1204: 1187: 1185: 1184: 1170: 1168: 1167: 1162: 1157: 1152: 1146: 1143: 1142: 1134: 1133: 1125: 1124: 1121: 1120: 1118: 1117: 1112: 1107: 1102: 1096: 1094: 1080: 1070: 1069: 1062:Low-importance 1058: 1052: 1051: 1049: 1032:the discussion 1019: 1018: 1002: 990: 989: 987:Low‑importance 981: 969: 968: 965: 964: 953: 947: 946: 944: 927:the discussion 921:listed on the 919:historic sites 910: 909: 893: 881: 880: 872: 860: 859: 856: 855: 852: 851: 848: 847: 845: 844: 843: 842: 835: 822: 807: 777: 750: 737: 724: 711: 698: 680: 672:Citing sources 667: 648: 646:More (U.S.)... 618: 616: 615: 604: 603: 598: 593: 588: 582: 579: 578: 570: 569: 566: 565: 562: 561: 559: 558: 557: 556: 553:Featured Topic 545: 538: 535: 512: 497: 484: 471: 458: 432: 424:Citing sources 419: 398: 396: 395: 384: 383: 378: 373: 368: 362: 359: 358: 350: 349: 346:Top-importance 336: 326: 325: 318:Top-importance 314: 308: 307: 305: 288:the discussion 269: 268: 252: 240: 239: 237:Top‑importance 225: 213: 212: 206: 195: 181: 180: 118: 117: 113: 112: 107: 102: 93: 92: 90: 89: 82: 77: 68: 62: 60: 59: 48: 39: 38: 35: 34: 28: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4490: 4479: 4476: 4474: 4471: 4469: 4466: 4464: 4461: 4459: 4456: 4454: 4451: 4449: 4446: 4444: 4441: 4439: 4436: 4434: 4431: 4429: 4426: 4424: 4421: 4419: 4416: 4414: 4411: 4409: 4406: 4405: 4403: 4396: 4394: 4390: 4386: 4380: 4378: 4374: 4370: 4357: 4349: 4344: 4342: 4337: 4332: 4327: 4326: 4320: 4316: 4312: 4307: 4306: 4305: 4304: 4301: 4297: 4293: 4289: 4281: 4277: 4273: 4268: 4267: 4266: 4262: 4258: 4253: 4252: 4251: 4247: 4243: 4239: 4238: 4237: 4233: 4229: 4225: 4220: 4217: 4213: 4208: 4205: 4202: 4201: 4193: 4192: 4191: 4188: 4182: 4179: 4178: 4167: 4163: 4159: 4154: 4150: 4149: 4148: 4143: 4140: 4137: 4136: 4129: 4125: 4121: 4117: 4116: 4115: 4111: 4107: 4103: 4102: 4101: 4097: 4093: 4089: 4088: 4087: 4086: 4083: 4079: 4075: 4070: 4067: 4065: 4061: 4057: 4053: 4050: 4049: 4040: 4036: 4032: 4027: 4026: 4025: 4024: 4023: 4018: 4015: 4012: 4011: 4005: 3998: 3995: 3992:and also has 3991: 3987: 3983: 3979: 3975: 3971: 3967: 3940: 3937: 3936:WP:CONSISTENT 3933: 3930: 3926: 3923: 3922: 3920: 3904: 3900: 3896: 3891: 3890: 3889: 3885: 3881: 3877: 3874:You're right 3873: 3872: 3871: 3867: 3863: 3859: 3855: 3851: 3847: 3843: 3841: 3837: 3833: 3829: 3825: 3824: 3823: 3819: 3815: 3810: 3809: 3808: 3804: 3800: 3795: 3792: 3788: 3787: 3786: 3782: 3778: 3773: 3772: 3771: 3767: 3763: 3759: 3755: 3754: 3753: 3752: 3751: 3750: 3745: 3741: 3737: 3733: 3732: 3731: 3730: 3724: 3719: 3718: 3717: 3716: 3709: 3708: 3707: 3706: 3700: 3695: 3692: 3689:lettering to 3688: 3683: 3680: 3676: 3675: 3674: 3673: 3670: 3669: 3659: 3656: 3653: 3652: 3644: 3640: 3638: 3634: 3627: 3624: 3622: 3618: 3617:Julius Caesar 3614: 3610: 3609:WP:COMMONNAME 3603: 3599: 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