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Agree, those should be moved to, many sources over capitalize but we follow the standard
English capitalization rules unless there's strong evidence to say otherwise, so far it doesn't seem to be because the overcapitalization at least seems to be for specific positions while this article is clearly
617:
This is obviously speculation, but I would hazard the guess that
Commons members would have adopted "MP" in order to make clear that they were Members of Parliament, whereas peers haven't ever needed to do the same - they already had titles, which (until very recently) would have come with a seat in
572:
My friends in the UK are describing the
Knowledge (XXG) as "a great work of fiction" based in part on the claim that an MP is a representative elected by the voters of an electoral district and that, therefore, members of the House of Lords are not Members of Parliament. I see absolutely NO sources
2101:
I would have preferred to see some reliable sources, which is what we are supposed to be following. I concede that the sources I have presented refer to a particular parliament but they do not refer to a particular member, and yet member is still capitalised. In addition, can anyone explain why, in
1875:
That's a good question to think about, but I don't think so, because this could refer to any parliament, and there are many parliaments, so the article is about parliaments in general rather than a unique body. Something is a proper noun only if it identifies a globally unique thing. In the context
743:
I don't see a problem with the sentence. It is factually accurate and there is no evidence that usage is limited to within
English speaking countries only. There are many acronyms with multiple meanings but we don't constantly have to worry about the alternative meanings. The context of "Member of
720:
Despite having lived in the U.S. for some 20-odd years, I saw the term, "MP," to refer a member of parliament for the first time today. It might be a good idea to change this text to something along the lines of, "In many
English-speaking parliamentary countries, the term...." It's additionally
1303:
This term in itself is as generic as it comes. capitalisation is very context dependent. There are many parliaments, including the Mother of parliaments. . There are also many members of parliament, like the member of
Parliament for Finchley. People often fall into the trap of excess
1888:, etc., but this is about the generic concept of a member of any parliament. I'm tempted to ping some Wikipedians who have more expertise on this than I do, but I don't want to be accused of canvassing to solicit support for my own opinion. I have included it in the list at the top of
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title" is a different matter – this discussion is about the generic position, not a full formal title like "Prime
Minister of Canada", and there is only one person holding the office of Prime Minister of Canada at any given moment, while there are many members of parliament.
1402:
To add to my argument, since there is evidence that the use of the uppercase term Member of
Parliament is not even consistently used when discussing specific parliaments the case for using uppercase in this general article is even weaker than I initially
1040:
Even in UK English the generic lowercase version is not uncommon. The caps one is for their own
Parliament, natch. Anyway, if you would support, we can try again. I don't know why this one wasn't relisted to get some opinions.
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shows that reliable aren’t consistent treating them as proper nouns. Also, no evidence has been provided that the general term has ever been treated as a proper noun. Finally, the current title is constant with articles such as
1990:) but it is correct as-is. We don't capitalize this as a job title (per Crouch, Swale and others), it would only be capitalized where "parliament" is capitalized, which only happens when it refers to a specific Parliament.
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1963:, even if we capitalize specific positions (even though I'm not sure we should) this is clearly generic as it doesn't even refer to a specific position never mind a specific person like "President Nixon".
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If the two sections are split according to the use of the english term member of parliament/MP, then that should be made more clear, perhaps by renaming the sections "usage by country" and "other titles".
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or references in the article for restricting the term MP to the
Commons in the UK (There seems to be a little somehting for that in Australia.) Can someone provide an authoritative reference?
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and they are members of it. We could call it an anomoly that somehow over the centuries members of the House of Commons have come to monopolize the description 'member of parliament'.
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I don't see how this can even be considered a proper noun in this case since the article is not about members of a particular parliament. This is different than something like
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UK newspaper usage is mixed. Some papers use "Member of Parliament" (UK) and "member of parliament" (non-UK). Other always use "member of parliament" even for the UK.
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1268:– The previous RM was prematurely closed as the discussion section above shows. There's no good reason to treat parliament as a proper name in this context.
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should not be upcased, in any variety of English (Oxford and Chicago guides both say minimise capping generally). Nor is there a good argument to upcase
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because that is not an article about members of one specific parliament not a general article on the subject as this is. It's also the same reason that
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I'm no expert on the relationship between Assembly and Government, but this statement seems to contradict what is said on the Assembly's website:
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at best the sources provided provide evidence that specific houses of parliaments should be considered proper nouns though evidence provided at
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Well it's undoubtedly the case that some peers are 'members of parliament' but they are not nor have they ever been called either that or MPs.
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I think the topical importance of MP's remuneration means that this section warrants its own entry. I'll look at seeing how this might be done
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You are correct that the topic is the generic member of parliament, not some proper noun, and if this discussion were still open, I would
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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as nom. Please review the article to see that the title is not referring to a particular entity, so can't possibly be a proper name.
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1584:]. I confess to only having looked at British English sources but that is purely because the article is written in British English.
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David Cameron ... had also been hoping to meet separately with Mr Gandhi, 40, who became a member of parliament in 2004 ..." —
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Do not apply initial capitals in a full term that is a common-noun phrase, just because capitals are used in its abbreviation
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The Welsh Assembly ... forms the Welsh Assembly Government, which unusually combines legislative and executive functions.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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this same article, Member of Congress and Senate Parliamentarian (both job titles) retain their capitals? Thanks --
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Parliament is often shortened... to the initialism 'MP'" makes it clear this is not about the US military police.
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This section explains ... the difference between the National Assembly for Wales and the Welsh Government ..."
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is as it should be, because that's a specific parliament, but this should remain lower case; it's a common noun.
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That answer rather escapes the point, as the question isn't about peers who are eligible to be elected to the
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capitalisation, as demonstrated by BHG above, and just asserting it's a proper noun does not make it so. --
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So should I just do another RM, or perhaps question the non-admin close that should have been a re-list at
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Many Knowledge (XXG) editors are careless and capitalize titles even when not used as titles before names.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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should not be capitalized in American English. Other varieties of English often do capitalize
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even for a member of a specific national parliament, let alone the completely generic use. —
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alone; in Australia there's one parliament every three years, generally and generically.
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Indian election 2014: Narendra Modi 'could face internal challenge from BJP president'
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the requested move ... except that this article is written in British English, where
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Isn't Israel a Westminster system? The articl on the Westminster system says it is.
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is a proper noun, and should be capitalized when referring to a specific parliament.
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confusing because the term, "MP," typically refers to military police in the U.S.
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Perhaps somebody who knows the details could rewrite the start of this subsection.
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See reasoning of BarrelProof from MOS and SchreiberBike's description Signed,
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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per previous discussion in 2014, which reached a clear agreement, and per
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Zaehner’s successor was C. M. Woodhouse ... a Member of Parliament ." —
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When it is used in any other way that refers to a specific Parliament,
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Talk:Member of parliament#Requested move: let's get our facts straight
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for all reasons already listed here, and my research documented under
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Sonia Gandhi puts son Rahul in charge as she flies abroad for surgery
1136:"the member of parliament representing Ikror has been Rahul Gandhi" —
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it does look a bit weird (and it is weird that it is different from
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a proper noun; it is a title, which is always capitalised in use. --
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This is about the generic concept of "member of (a) parliament".
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India elections: domination of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty under threat
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When used as a title obviously it should be capitalised (e.g.:
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per BarrelProof. No specific parliament is being referred to.
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But, isn't this about the article title? not the content. See
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where all current capitalization discussions are listed. —
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for the UK and "member of parliament" for other parliaments:
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Cameron fails to secure meeting with Gandhis on trip to India
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for the UK and "member of parliament" for other parliaments:
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Mr Vajpayee, a previous member of parliament for Lucknow —
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1856:. Shouldn't Parliament be treated as a proper noun here?
1582:] Google ngrams shows capitals to be most commonly used.
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Galloway refuses to debate with Israeli student at Oxford
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is used as a title before a name, it must be capitalized.
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Is not the House of Lords PART of the British Parliament?
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of a particular parliament, we seem to capitalize it –
1635:", so the abbreviation shouldn't make a difference. —
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
1602:- The abbreviation alone, seals it. They're know as an
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List of House members of the 41st Parliament of Canada
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is routinely used even when not a title before a name.
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the Lords, so it didn't need to be stated seperately.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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Titles are not capitalized when used in other ways:
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1800:An article's title is part of its content, and per
1237:. No further edits should be made to this section.
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The senator said to the professor, "call a doctor!"
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2203:Knowledge (XXG) articles that use British English
1812:. A formal title "where the position/office is a
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
656:Details on UK MP's remuneration to new section?
1503:, not to mention that we use the abbreviation
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1732:". Nothing has changed. We don't capitalize
1378:List of Vice Presidents of the United States
1349:Requested move: let's get our facts straight
888:Requested move: let's get our facts straight
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1784:Deputy Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
1491:Alright, I know the 2014 RFC result was/is
1522:The following is a closed discussion of a
1055:Indeed. Unless there's some special case,
679:The subsection on Wales currently starts:
473:, which has its own spelling conventions (
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1804:, Knowledge (XXG) article titles are in
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1499:. But it is rather odd, comparing to
505:, this should not be changed without
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1780:Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
1541:The result of the move request was:
1351:showing that British English allows
1326:– reasons above, and not only mine.
1242:The result of the move request was:
788:The result of the move request was:
526:Joe Bloggs is a member of parliament
398:This article is within the scope of
313:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Politics
293:This article is within the scope of
1380:is capitalized whereas the general
977:a Conservative member of Parliament
974:a member of Parliament from Britain
675:Welsh Assembly and Welsh Government
408:and the subjects encompassed by it.
236:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
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639:http://www.bunge.go.ke/parliament/
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2117:Anomalies that can be corrected.
50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
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2155:The discussion above is closed.
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1515:Requested move 12 November 2021
1511:. 19:04, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
550:Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
522:Joe Bloggs Member of Parliament
516:Capitalisation of article title
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1831:I'm sticking to my position.
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1649:I'm sticking with supporting
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1594:06:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
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316:Template:WikiProject Politics
307:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
1886:Member of Parliament (India)
1186:Will Gordon Brown step down?
637:Kenyan Parliament, homepage
633:Missing: Parliament of Kenya
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1752:'s chance of success. —
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1099:I'll just do another RM.
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2010:
1981:
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1920:Vice president
1907:
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1765:
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1716:prime minister
1670:
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1623:
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1524:requested move
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1507:, rather then
1488:
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1445:requested move
1439:
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1437:
1418:
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1397:
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1382:Vice president
1367:
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869:requested move
863:
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771:requested move
765:
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729:219.121.17.189
717:
714:
695:
687:
681:
676:
673:
657:
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641:To be added --
634:
631:
620:86.170.165.125
615:
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569:
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2041:MOS:JOBTITLES
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2034:
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2018:
2014:
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1967:Crouch, Swale
1962:
1961:MOS:JOBTITLES
1958:
1955:
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1949:
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1941:
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1936:Supreme court
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1177:seems to use
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110:Verifiability
108:
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1357:Anomalocaris
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1178:
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1120:
1066:
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1024:
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420:law articles
399:
334:
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238:WikiProjects
184:
171:
165:
157:
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144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
1984:Weak Oppose
1894:BarrelProof
1819:BarrelProof
1754:BarrelProof
1750:WP:SNOWball
1637:BarrelProof
1534:move review
1495:instead of
1455:move review
1431:victor falk
1235:move review
879:move review
781:move review
746:Road Wizard
723:—Preceding
662:Cloversmate
468:written in
406:legal field
148:free images
31:not a forum
2167:Categories
2062:I Am Chaos
1890:WT:MOSCAPS
1810:title case
1786:, etc etc.
1746:lord mayor
1742:grand duke
1700:lord mayor
1696:grand duke
1474:Hydromania
1403:thought.--
1061:parliament
938:Parliament
897:HairedGirl
847:HairedGirl
602:Moonraker2
534:Parliament
393:Law portal
1994:(powera,
1684:president
1543:Not moved
1151:The Times
994:professor
479:travelled
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1629:MOS:CAPS
1288:Dicklyon
1270:Dicklyon
1248:Favonian
1101:Dicklyon
1087:Dicklyon
1043:Dicklyon
1007:Dicklyon
855:contribs
822:Dicklyon
725:unsigned
528:). Even
491:artefact
310:Politics
301:politics
257:Politics
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2099:Comment
1861:Calidum
1854:Comment
1833:GoodDay
1788:GoodDay
1692:emperor
1655:GoodDay
1612:GoodDay
1600:Support
1554:Natg 19
1422:Support
1370:Support
1345:Support
1336:(talk)
1324:Support
1301:Support
1284:Support
1073:(talk)
1015:Support
990:senator
838:. This
703:Eebkent
643:RicHard
559:contrib
495:analyse
487:defence
438:on the
337:on the
228:C-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2104:Ykraps
2075:Oppose
2058:Oppose
2035:: Per
2033:Oppose
2013:Oppose
1992:User:力
1957:Oppose
1911:Oppose
1808:, not
1726:, and
1708:bishop
1674:Oppose
1631:says "
1606:, not
1586:Ykraps
1083:WP:MRV
986:doctor
956:Member
952:member
851:(talk)
836:Oppose
585:Alci12
575:Pzavon
483:centre
475:colour
234:scale.
126:Google
2043:etc.
1712:abbot
964:uses
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169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2143:talk
2123:talk
2108:talk
2085:talk
2080:LSGH
2066:talk
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2039:and
1974:talk
1959:per
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1361:talk
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1047:talk
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162:FENS
136:news
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