Talk:Michael Cox (independent bishop)

5690:

different organisation, and in this Church are not allowed female priest. There are various countries that have this religion, as: Russia, Greece, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania, Serbia etc. I don't know what sources has that newspaper, but I can search for credible sources in order to show that I'm not talking about something I invented. I believe that the people that need to know that this bishop has nothing to do with the Orthodox Church. So thank you for telling me what you have said, I will come back with the information I told you about, and hope you will consider suitable for Knowledge! Have a nice day!

3403:"Ordaining" and "consecration by laying on of hands" (which is what Apostolic Succession entails) are essentially theological equivalents. And "day" is better than "claim" as a general rule. "Bishop" is not a special class of priest, by the way, it is a hierarchical position as being head if a diocese and not a "super-priest." Even the Pope remains a "priest" by the way. The person does not assert that he is a "Roman Catholic Bishop" - but that he is Bishop (that is, a hierarchical title) in his "Independent Catholic Church." As he does not say it is "Roman Catholic" it is pretty much 840:: While I doubt that a judge has the capacity to decide who is or isn't a bishop, the problem with the article's current name is that it is misleading at best. While agreeing that the term "Catholic" does not only apply to Roman Catholics, describing Cox as a "Catholic bishop" without any qualification would lead most readers to assume that he is a bishop within the Roman Catholic communion. According to the MOS full names of people should only be used in their article title if that is how they are commonly known, which I doubt is so in Cox's case. I still maintain that 624:

titles. No one is arguing that the Roman Catholic Church has a monopoly on being Catholic but in an article title including "Catholic bishop" this will probably be interpreted by virtually 100% of readers as meaning or implying "Roman Catholic bishop". For the sale of accuracy he should be referred to as being an "Independent Catholic bishop" or something similar in the article title. And, for you information, articles names such as "Irish bishop, born 1945" are not a bizarre construction" as you've falsely claimed. There are many such article names on Knowledge.

670:. Just because someone may be a validly ordained bishop with an "episcopal succession" derived from a recognised Roman Catholic bishop and is in some group which uses uses "Catholic" in their name (such as Old Catholic and Anglican Catholic) doesn't make it acceptable to just use "Catholic bishop" in their article name. This would be ludicrous, as it is in this instance. And, as I've already stated, many biographical articles use birth years for disambiguation purposes when this is a good way to do so. 530:

the same thing as saying "he is opposed to bad stuff and abortion?" Sometimes people use the word "immorality" as a euphemism for "sexual unchastity." Is he opposed to sexual unchastity and abortion? If so, which definition of chastity does Cox use? Or does Cox think that "free love" is the way to go, and "general immorality" is another word for littering and air pollution? And where in the world is the source material for this statement anyway, so we can all go look it up for ourselves?

366: 2966:, that "The validity of Cox, has been recognised by the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin, who have urged him to apply for laicisation." Buckley's logical fallacy is to equivocate being "urged to apply for laicisation" with being granted such a rescript. But Buckley's claim of recognition is contradicted in statements by the Catholic Church and almost every source previously added to the article, talk page, and noticeboard. 288: 278: 257: 187: 169: 138: 3603:– he is only notable for his publicity about his planning to do something. The sources do not mention that he actually followed through and completed what he publicised that he would do. For example, there are no news articles about him actually protesting at sea or even converting a fishing boat into a church. But, the publicity is all about his planning and nothing more. Removing 1932:, just like any other biography article. The archbishop was also a bishop for a time, so both PRECISE, RECENTISM and PRESENTISM apply, since assumption of only the last ecclesiastical rank without historical perspective when dealing with other ranks previously held and the personal histories of that period of time when they held those makes the "(bishop)" use ambiguous. -- 45: 3199:, however, is an essay (not a policy or even a guideline) outlining how previous AfDs have gone. It doesn't apply here. Given your comments at various points above and on the BLP noticeboard, your new section below, and the fact you display "Roman Catholic" on your user page would lead me to believe you have something of a biased view... 1286:(nothing more!) of people unqualified to comment. The District Court deals with minor criminal matters. A District Court judge is entirely unqualified - in unrelated criminal cases which had nothing to do with Cox! - to issue a ruling on whether or not Cox was consecrated as a bishop, and/or whether or not that consecration was or was not 1252:, pointed out that there was doubt. Durcan said in 2013 that Cox ws "a man who calls himself a bishop" and "who masquerades as a clergy man." In 2014 Durcan said that Cox "parades around and calls himself a bishop, but is not a bishop." Can you show otherwise? All I see you presenting are straw men and red herrings without links. – 5146:

it is not. The rest is context about others (some Thục related) who also use photos that imply a relationship with the Roman Catholic Church. The same page also uses words that imply a relationship with the Roman Catholic Church "Our Holy Father, the Pope, successor of Saint Peter and as such is chief pastor of the Church."

197: 666:

has been ordained in some kind of "valid" episcopal lineage in a breakaway group which uses the term "Catholic" in its name doesn't make him (or her) a "Catholic bishop" as commonly understood or recognised. By your logic then any such bishop is a "Catholic bishop", including all of the women bishops in groups such as

3468: 5077:

Yes, you absolutely are poisoning the well. You are discrediting something that nobody has introduced to this article, or has even suggested adding to the article, plain and simple. It's pretty much a textbook example! Can you please just stop? There is nothing "vague" about the talk page history I

2244:

The point is that in churches which have bishops, independence isn't a valid state. Cox is claiming his authority arises out of those churches, so he does have a legitimacy problem. If we can't come up with anything better than "independent", then we'll have to go with that; my point is that it isn't

665:

He was not ordained as a bishop by Thuc himself. He was only, apparently, ordained in an episcopal lineage by bishops in the Palmarian church. Therefore your claim that he is a "Catholic bishop" is dubious at best. It seems to be your POV on this matter that is the problem here. Just because a bishop

645:

would suggest otherwise; we're supposed to name articles logically and consistently, generally using a name that people will enter in a search bar. Someone looking for an article on Michael Cox will probably not know when he was born... certainly I don't think I've ever seen someone's birth year used

4980:

websites – out-of-context message design. By starting a discussion, future editors can see what I saw. Yes, discussing both sites is salient because both identify Cox as a leader. Noting that both sites use photos in a way that implies a relationship with the Roman Catholic Church shows the illusion

4167:

cited on another page can be referenced. It says, for example, "1976 (January 2): Archbishop Bueno declared the ordinations irregular" (p.3). "1976 (January 14): Archbishop Bueno declared the consecrations irregular and the newly consecrated bishops suspended" (p.3). I am familiar with the material.

3390:

a bishop without going into how he became one. Second issue - Cox consecrated Buckley - he didn't ordain him. I also think the inclusion of what the English/Welsh conference's press office thinks about an Irish bishop is a complete red herring. It's equally unqualified to speak about the German RC

3385:

claim he was consecrated by Thuc. He was consecrated by his episcopal successor. Your current wording is therefore misleading. Cox "saying" he is a bishop sounds, to me, as if WP is saying he's just making it up, but (although I accept "claims" is normally a word to avoid), "Cox claims" reads more

2421:

what is his denomination? He was ordained as a priest by an unknown bishop purportedly in 1978. He was consecrated as a bishop of the Palmarian Church purportedly in 1982 (on an undisclosed date). After 40 years one could reason that Cox would have cleared up simple things like dubious dates to show

1421:

questioning the location of the English/Welsh episcopal conference, I'm questioning it's jurisdiction over Irish matters. When I referred above to balance, I meant if you insist on including the opinion of the English/Welsh conference, then we'll also have to include the fact that they presented no

1154:

Catholic Church, in some (not all) dioceses, requires people to attend a pre-marriage course - but the RCC is not an organ of the state. "if you are not property married, that will have severe implications for the status of your marriage, the status of your wife and the status of your baby that she

5145:

I was looking for sources about his groups. I saw the photo of something that seemed familiar and did an image search on it. It turned out to be unrelated to the website. I looked at both sites and realized they are not reliable. Editors may get the impression that the photo is about the group when

3031:

I've removed the claim of a Palmarian connection because the sources do not say that there is one. Thục is known to have done several irregular/illegitimate consecations beyond that which started the Palmarian church, and the chain from the 1999 article used as a reference for this does not go back

2455:

It's not a question of who "gets" to use the word; it's a question of what readers will understand. A sophisticated reader such as myself will understand that an unadorned "Catholic bishop" means that the claim isn't true because of several violations of the way bishops are supposed to be ordained,

4680:

the wedding-like ceremonies may be the core of a few paragraphs with explanatory footnotes but little else is published about his ministry to include. Cox's ministry is notable for differences from and not for similarities to Roman Catholic ministry, e.g. the wedding rituals Roman Catholic priests

3731:

It did not. This is an encyclopedia article. We do not include sentences like " destroyed what would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines", written by some unnamed news agency reporter. I've been to (Roman) Catholic ceremonies, and seen priests exorcising evil and demons from babies at

3054:

There are far more articles on Knowledge for mainstream Roman Catholic and Protestant bishops who really aren't notable at all - just a couple of paragraphs saying they were born, educated, ordained, consecrated, and died. Being a priest or bishop in a mainstream church doesn't, in itself, confer

529:

I don't think there's a POV problem here-- there's no problem to say that Cox opposes abortion. If that's his position, then it goes in the article. If Cox preaches that abortion is immoral, then the article should say that's what he does. But what in the world is "general immorality?" Is that

3664:

anyone in the Irish Times making any remark about Cox grabbing headlines. It's an unnamed AP reporter offering personal opinion in something of an AP colour piece that seems to have been picked up by a couple of Australian newspapers and Fark.com. "Published interviews of local people"?! From 30

1211:

On a related note - the Episcopal Conference of England and Wales oversees Roman Catholic matters in - well, England and Wales. Not Ireland. Not Northern Ireland. We have the Irish Bishops' Conference for that. So if you insist on including an opinion (and that's all it is) from the English/Welsh

1146:

issue with the recent addition of the claim that Cox conducted illegal weddings. A district court judge - in the course of separate, unrelated trials of people for 1) "a string of offences", and 2) "trespass" - has alleged that he did so. The Gardaí are apparently investigating the allegation of

623:

I will be taking this issue further because there has to be some common sense limits to who can be called a "Catholic bishop" (or anything else) and I consider it to be entirely inappropriate for bishops of small vagante groups such as Michael Cox to be called a "Catholic bishop" in their article

4378:

the article is describing what sources write about Cox. Yes, I would add that a bishop ministers to black people or any other group. For example, there are Roman Catholic parishes that minister to migrants that are established by Canon Law for "reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the

3313:

Cox was a candidate who lost one election – the fact is irrelevant – if he were a jockey his gates opened and the pony stood still. The reason clergy incorporated in the Latin Church of the Catholic Church do not hold political office is because they "are forbidden to assume public offices which

2903:

It's not clear that anything in the article is true other than that Cox claims to be a bishop and that he has made the news on several occasions, and possibly the chain of consecrations that leads to him. For instance, I found a website for a "Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church", which

4324:

the article is not about speculating what other priests do – I think that is a modal scope fallacy – many or most news sources describe Cox interaction with Irish Travellers. This is a documented part of his ministry. Do you think this is contentious? You are removing content for little reason.

5726:

Bastun, search for any Orthodox Church, it is the same, but depending on the country it can be Russian, Romanian, Greek, Bulgarian, Irish etc. The term"Catholic and Apostolic" after Orthodox comes from the greek language "catholiki kai apostoliki" which means in greek "universal and Apostolic"

5689:

Bastun, I understand your point of view, but I changed that information because if you search about the Orthodox Church you will find out that it was not founded by this bishop, the Orthodox Church appeared in 1054 when the Church of Christ divided in two: Orthodox and Catholic. Also, it has a

1877:

just because his final ecclesiastical rank was archbishop does not mean he was never a bishop. Indeed, he was Bishop of Ossory for 11 years. So, any works describing the bishop in Ossory for that period would be talking about the Anglican, and not the Catholic person, thus the rank "bishop" is

3822:

Reading between the lines, that's what we're tending to get in the article: a tiny bit about his background and the circumstances of his questionable ordination, and then basically a list of a stunts that have got him in the news. The whole thing is hardly coherent because the narrative isn't

4684:

Another notable difference, at least for members of the Roman Catholic Church, is that the sacrament of confirmation is valid for a Roman Catholic recipient when the minister is a Roman Catholic bishop; the validity of that sacrament is doubtful when the minister is a cleric whose ordination

513:

Unfortunately, the last sentence of this reads "opposes genereal immorality and abortion," and implies that abortion is an immoral act. Abortion is most certainly a controversial topic, but I don't think that everyone believes it to be immoral; there is a lot of debate on the immorality of a

4858:

with a caption "We are a universal religious order Order Mater Dei within "The Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church": having clergy all over the planet in Continents and Countries which includes: America, Europe including the British Isles (Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales)."

1348:

is in London and the Episcopal Conference for England and Wales is in London but your questioning the location is a straw man – you and I simply do not know where the information that the press office provided came from, whether it is from the Vatican or the Irish Catholic Bishops'

3466:

And again - he was ordained a priest, and ordained a bishop - the term "consecrated" does not have a separate and distinct theological value from "ordained". And, in fact, mindlessly copying exact words from a source is improper where simple synomyms are at our disposal. See also

3694:

but also describes that "Cox has attracted special attention with a string of stunts, including exorcising alleged demons from a Dublin radio station and the national parliament; setting up a confessions-by-phone hot line; and selling a 'Heal yourself, by the miracle bishop' home

5032:. The photo of Roman Catholic bishops at a Roman Catholic Mass in the cathedral of the Roman Catholic Diocese of La Crosse, Wisconsin, has nothing to do with this non-Roman Catholic group. The photo is used in a demonstrably false context. Use of the photo discredits the website 646:

in the title of a biographical article. I stand open to correction. As to "common sense limits to who can be called a 'Catholic bishop'", it's not for us to say. NPOV and all that. He was ordained a bishop by Pierre Martin Ngô Đình Thục - that makes him a Catholic bishop.

4783:

no, the heading is precise. Please read about this to familiarize yourself with the content. It is your opinion about who is the competent authority involving events that several people participated in, and that occurred in more than one diocese in more than one country.

4542:

interview that "I am saddened that less people are going to mass and the sacraments. But it is true that faith is still strong within the Travelling community. My phone is always hoping of the hook. Travellers tell their friends and family about me- and I am very much in

4866:

of a promotional PDF for Parishsoft church management software with a caption "Bishop Jerome Listecki presides over Liturgy of the Eucharist at St. Joseph the Workman Cathedral, La Crosse, Wisc". A comparable photo of the Roman Catholic cathedral is found in an article

1608:

Double take on the date of this RM and almost did a procedural close; however, I went ahead and read it to find a consensus to remove the "Catholic" from the qualifier. I see no conflict with the archbishop since there is a hatnote with a dablink to both names.

3705:– without a doubt – is what biographies contain; biographies are not sanitized advertisements about anyones recent ventures. People are born, they live, and they die. The interesting part is about how they live. He is exclusively notable for his controversies. – 4919:

Regardless of what the photos imply, the lack of listing in directories of Roman Catholic organizations informs that the Roman Catholic Church has no relationship with either Cox's "Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church" or with Cox's "Order Mater Dei".

1091:"For bishops in the Western world, do not use their episcopal title in the article name unless necessary for disambiguation. For article names where there is both a forename and a surname, used also by other articles, inserting (bishop) afterward is common, 1150:(On a side note, the judge's remarks are... odd. "He added: 'You do know that the State and other organs within the State require that people be prepared for marriage?'" Um, no. The state requires proper notice of a marriage, no "preparation". The 2032:

This bishop is not dead WP:BISHOP uses date of death, which is not available for this person. Most articles on people deal with dead people, so dates of death can easily be used. There are many biographies that use dates of birth as disambiguation

2525:

is like saying "all Palmarians were still Tridentines" while excluding the critical qualifier "until 1978 when the group became a recognised new religion in Spain and substituted Palmarian rituals for Tridentine rituals." Palmarians use the term

5661:. See the sentence "He is the founder and bishop superior of the Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church"? See the number right after it. Click on it, it brings you to the reference used to back up the previous sentence. In this case, it's 5122:

What exactly is the point here? It's par for the course to try to paint vangantes like Cox with some varnish of legitimacy, but really, the nuances of this are beside the point, and never mind that ordaining O'Connor puts him beyond the pale.

1642:

Since this RM has been going on for so long, I would not be averse to a new discussion to garner consensus for an improved article title. Please be sure to read the move logs as linked in the box just above the TOC near the top of this page.

4359:

ministered and minister to Travellers. It's unworthy of special comment, or inclusion in an article. Would you add that a bishop in a predominately white American town ministered to black people?! Your inclusion is just as offensive.

2558:

in that name. The whole name is open to interpretation yet nothing seems to be published on the meaning. Another Cox order, "Order Mater Dei," states "Novus Ordo is the Default Mass and Latin Tridentine Rite only when requested" and "We

2013:- I've rarely, if ever, seen a disambiguation of date of birth in a BLP, especially when several rather more obvious disambiguation titles present themselves. Despite what the anon IP above says, using a date of birth to disambiguate is 3013:: I certainly think it is worth raising the question of his notability. There are already far too many articles on Knowledge of bishops of very small or even virtually non-existent churches who are of doubtful notability for much else. 3642:

Doubtful even if the personal opinion was attributed to someone with competence in the field of Irish religious affairs. As an unattributed quote made by an AP reporter, published in the Sydney Morning Herald? Not a hope. Please read

4658:

I think we can use the traveller magazine article to put the marriage controversy in a larger context. But it's not clear that what he does specifically for travellers goes beyond satisfying their desire for underage marriages.

3150:"We have had cases like this before whereby the children actually believe they are legally married and it has taken a lot of effort to unwrangle everything," according to Father Stephen Monaghan, a Travellers' parish priest. 1678:– By convention we have not included the denomination/church for bishops when disambiguation from other people is necessary. There are neutrality problems with labelling him a "Catholic" bishop since he is not part of the 514:

abortions currently for sometime. If you can think of a NPOV way to write this (maybe just removing "general immorality" as that is a pretty subjective term), I say go for it. Until then, this article is flagged for POV.

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has an edit summary that "Poorly sourced BLP, whose content is disputed by the apparent subject. I have removed some of this content while the Prod continues. The two sources given were a self-published website."

465:

This isn't clear. How it reads is Cox didn't want his ship sailed into Ireland by Women on Waves. How did they get a hold of his ship? Why didn't he want them to sail it? Like, what? Sorry, maybe I'm just daft.

4508:

I'm having a distinctly RS/OR reaction to this. The actual source here is Sinead O'Connor, and I'm not inclined to go from "she is donating money for a ministry center" to "Cox himself conducts such a ministry."

3568:, into "a mobile floating church, offering on-board marriages and baptisms to people around the British Isles." Cox planned to protest against the ship being sailed into Ireland by the pro-choice feminist group 2962:(archived May 1, 2015) with "wedding deposits" by PayPal. The same page, states Buckley was "consecrated a bishop by two bishops - one Irish and one American" but does not name Cox online. Buckley makes claims, 5967:

I believe we endeavor to use short and sweet disambiguation suffixes. There was no need to tack on "Catholic" to this dab. There is no other independent bishop named Michael Cox, am I right in thinking this?

5254:) point to a distinction between Roman Catholic identity and Catholic identity that is not seen in the self-identity projected by both sites. Yet they are not organizations within the Roman Catholic Church. – 4690:

I think it is a logical fallacy to argue further assumption of notability from what is documented about Cox into what is undocumented about Cox, i.e. a ministry beyond the wedding-like ceremonies for anyone.

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I don't see what the problem with "independent" would be, especially as it's used in the article and a few news sources. At any rate, just "bishop" is unusable due to there being another bishop of the same

1352:

I spent a few hours searching for reliable information about Cox and could not find anything positive to add for balance nor could I find reliable sources that he was actually consecrated. He seems to be a

5727:

church. This is why I wanted to change that information. I did not have time to search for the articles I mentioned you about, but when I'll have some free time I will come back with those. TheDodoBird01

760:

Insp Tom Kennedy said that the demand in December that the first marriage by Mr Cox be investigated "is being dealt with" and confirmed to Judge Durcan that this second marriage will also be investigated.

2219:

Cox does not clearly identify himself with a church, in the sense of a denomination or sect, e.g. even his church building in Cree is, according to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage,

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The section title should be changed or removed all right. The sentence is worthy of inclusion, though, as clergy and bishops do not usually run for or hold public office (in Ireland, at any rate).

2673: 65: 5284:, if and when someone asserts something using those sites as the source, you can subsequently challenge the inclusion, or at least the quality of the sources. Until then, maybe step away from the 3754:

the boat exploded and sank. It was a sinking (because simple past tense, sank, cannot be used), it was on the water then it was under the water. Cox is exclusively notable for his controversies. –

2912:, who was the source of the first Palmarian consecrations but who also consecrated a number of others outside Catholic authority. I have found no connection between him and any organized church. 4981:– it places the Roman Catholic Church on a cognitive map but in the wrong context, in effect guiding the audience to draw false conclusions about a relationship with the Roman Catholic Church. – 4596:, is nothing more than accepting a default suggestion of a spell checking program. The context from several sources is quite clear that the idea is "Irish Traveller". The addition of the term 2595:

has a good point below that in the broader sense of the term "Catholic", the Anglican bishop is also "catholic". It still seems to me that "independent bishop" suits our needs pretty well.--

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some rename. The present title implies that his episcopal ordination is recognised by Rome, which apparently it is not. I express no strong view on what the precise outcome should be.

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apostolic succession as a bishop from the Palmarian Catholic Church through the episcopal lineage of Pierre Martin Ngô Đình Thục, the former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Huế in Vietnam.

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consecratio and benedictio are, in the Roman sacramentaries, the proper designation of ordination prayers, and there is no apparent distinction of meaning between these two words."

4681:

perform are legal contracted marriages. That is a very notable difference since couples in legal contracted marriages gain rights in the law. Those involving Cox do not gain rights.

3409:

http://courseweb.stthomas.edu/jmjoncas/LiturgicalStudiesInternetLinks/ChristianWorship/Texts/Centuries/Texts_1900_2000CE/RCWorshipTexts1900_2000CE/Rite_of_Ordination_of_a_Bishop.htm

4907: 1290:. Similarly, the Episcopal Conference for England and Wales is entirely unqualified to issue a judgement on the same issue regarding an Irish bishop within the jurisdiction of an 1044:

are more appropriate" and it was he who first proposed the move to "...(independent Catholic bishop)". I don't know how familiar you are with Irish law, but while a civil judge's

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originated from Thục and a Roman Catholic recipient should receive that sacrament conditionally from a Roman Catholic bishop (or priest with that faculty) because of that doubt.

4213:

O'Connor stated that the money was "an act of charity" to set up a healing center for Cox's ministry to travelers (Gypsies) as well as to fund a hernia operation for the bishop.

3141: 1475:

but "Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales" should never have been added. The problem that I created about location and jurisdiction is not an issue. I apologize. –

5250:

use of out-of-context material. The confusion also affects how this article is titled – both sites convey a Roman Catholic self-identity but the above discussions (especially

117: 5199:

it can be challenged and/or removed. We don't pre-approve and pre-disallow individual sources, except by general reference to policy. (That said, I wish to point out that

3579:, caught fire while underway and sank – the sinking "destroyed what would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines" in 2004 by planning to shadow "the abortion ship, 2385:

If you read through all of this, you know the answer: that I had sufficient doubt about his notability to suggest that the article be deleted rather than moved. And he is

4915: 4489:

to minister to Travellers - that'd be notable. Doing what every other minister does simply isn't. Performing wedding ceremonies for Travellers who appear to be underage

3517:

I prefer "ordination" to "consecration" and, with bishops, both words are officially used and acceptable but I think it is preferable to have consistency in the article.

3391:

hierarchy, the price of fish in Adelaide, or the Oscars. It should probably be removed in its entirety but if it is retained, the clarification should also be retained.

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No, most sources don't do that. Some of the sources specifically mentioning Traveller weddings do - that is all. The priests in the last three parishes I've lived in

3055:

notability. Cox, at least, has been named in thousands of news articles over a period of years for one event, and has featured in national press on several occasions.

4765:

Can you change the heading of this section? It's not my opinion, it's a fact that the English and Welsh Bishop's Conference has no jurisdiction over Ireland. Thanks.

4745:

Your opinion seems to contradict at least one source: Ratzinger reply to Murphy-O'Connor about Broadbery's request for a declaration on the nullity of his ordination.

3147:

In 2002, Buckley "defended his right to give blessings to teenagers as young as 14, after it was reported he performed a ceremony involving a 15-year-old Traveller."

1878:

ambiguous. The Archbishop was never elevated to archbishop without serving as a bishop, thus we have two bishops by the name "Michael Cox" with articles, so it is a

4931:

in 2013 (all 3 men surrounding Cardinal Sergio Sebiastiana in this headline photo as well as the photographer within the photo take part in Napierski's hobby), and

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as most people understand it. I can find no other bishop Michael Cox he has to be distinguished from, so there is no need for further qualification than "bishop".

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said: "Cox, says he was ordained a priest by a Vietnamese Tridentine bishop in 1978, then consecrated to become Ireland's only bishop of the Tridentine sect," –

3066:

None of this has anything to do with the Palmarian church claim!!!! Come up with a citation which says that he IS in the Palmarian church, and then we can talk.

2168:, even though it's true.... "Independent bishop" is suboptimal in that in general churches that have bishops don't hold to independence as a legitimate state. 1147:

conducting illegal marriages. No prosecution has yet taken place that I am aware of and in fact I can't find anything to say Cox has even been charged yet.

5991: 4573:

Agreed, Mangoe - it seems to be a poorly researched article culled from other news agency reports. Irish Travellers (two 'l's) aren't gypsies, for a start.

3412: 122: 105:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or 4742:: "An opinion of the bishop's conference for England and Wales re an Irish bishop is out of jurisdiction and irrelevant; Irish opinion now also included" 3701:

So reporting something that is syndicated is BLP because of what specifically in the cited articles? There is no coatracking, the articles are about Cox.

3610:

In 1998, Cox and Buckley planned to "co-operate pastorally" and were "looking at re-enacting the Holy Orders of priests" as part of their business model.

4976:

no the article does not use either and should not. I visited the sites hoping to find reliable information but quickly saw what is a common technique on

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There is a common thread of some kind of ceremonies involving children who are under the impression that they are married when they are in fact not. –

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would meet both disambiguation and neutrality requirements, while also keeping in line with naming conventions. No objection if you want to move it,

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The Cox WP article had revisions that named Ciarán Broadbery (or Broadberry according to Buckley's book) as Cox's consecrator. The 2011 deletion of

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That's not what the sentence said, though. It just said that he ministered to "Travelers" (sic), full stop. Do you think that priests in Ireland

3314:

entail a participation in the exercise of civil power" and "are to refrain completely from all those things which are unbecoming to their state". –

3104:, please. I was responding to Anglicanus, who had raised the issue of notability. Sheesh. On the Palmarian issue, nobody is saying he's a member. 6001: 5996: 2403:

What's the basis for that statement? He was a Roman Catholic. He is no longer in communion with Rome. Hence he is still Catholic, just not Roman.

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Cox is not such a bishop, in fact, Cox is according to a court "someone who parades around and calls himself a bishop, but is not a bishop." –

6006: 5759:. Everyone appears to agree that the article must be moved, and "independent bishop" appears to be the solution drawing the least objection. 3353: 1656: 1629: 5662: 2274:

implies a state of separateness from communion that the secular sense does not convey. Their minuscule groups appear to exist, according to

2067:, you must look at different pages to me. It's the standard practice in sports articles, and used in thousands of articles. Random example: 607:

Catholic bishop. "Michael Cox (Catholic bishop)" would therefore seem to be the most appropriate title. If you disagree, feel free to use

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in 1999 that he was conditionally consecrated as a "precaution" because Buckley was "conscious" that Cox "was somewhat of a 'loose canon'."

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should be removed. According to the judge, Cox does not have the capacity to marry people. He is permitted to call himself a bishop but he

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page. Don't start the same here. If someone introduces a dubious source, then, yes, absolutely open a talk section about it. Not before.

4547:) "I go around to people, visit hospitals, provide healing. I think I am well known and well liked in the (Travelling) community."(p.25) – 3696: 3584: 3280:

Losing a single election and never holding a political office is not a political career. The section title is irrelevant and misleading. –

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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changes between (Britain) A modern-day gypsy, tinker, caravan dweller, etc. and (Ireland) A member of the nomadic ethnic minority, but

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as a minister of marriage, i.e. the marriage documents he provides are fictitious. It is misleading to call him a bishop – there is no

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I did not remove what you claim I've removed. I removed one word, "irregularly", which - per the edit summary - is not in the source.

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guidelines. As you obviously disagree then please enlighten us as to what article name you think is appropriate for Cox according to

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I do not think it is a BLP issue. The judge addressed the court: "This man is not a bishop and he is not entitled to marry anybody".–

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

4602:

adds disambiguation within the article for an American reader who may not be familiar with who this may be. The distinction between

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should redirect to the dab page. Other options for the disambiguation were named in the previous RM and other discussions, such as

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episcopal conference, the Irish one. (You are aware Ireland is not the same as the England and Wales, yes?) All they can give is

214:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to 446:

in 1976, then Cox's 1982 consecration in the Palmarian church is possibly valid. Presumably the Vatican agrees, if consecrations

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We seem to have come up with three candidate labels. Might it be good at this point to lay them out and express our preferences?

2363: 2328: 2270:, there is agreement that their ordinations are illegitimate and disagreement that their ordinations are valid. I agree with you 2208: 2190: 2154: 2144: 2131: 1407:. It just means the judge can't be sued for anything he says, whether that's his opinion on Cox's validity or his opinion of the 1041: 845: 371:

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

2951: 2939: 2908:. Cox isn't on it, nor is any other bishop mentioned. I also find no connection between Cox and the Palmarian Church other than 2224: 595:. Do not just move the page again if the move you made has been reverted. In addition, there is a policy for naming articles: 5914: 4272:, Cox "plays a special role for some in the Travelling community. He is willing to marry young Travellers under the age of 18." 2853: 2807: 2705: 2332: 1984: 1925: 547:

I have moved this page to accommodate the other Michael Coxs who have Knowledge entries. There is now a disambiguation page at

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What the hell is this section about? Getting your retaliation in first? Throwing red herrings all over the place? The article

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Showing a history of a talk page is vague. To prevent fragmentation of the discussion, please explain what you mean in those

2722: 2645: 2077: 1993: 1967: 3902:... Gomez ... had been made a bishop by ... Ngo-Dhinh Thuc (1897-1984), who died apparently reconciled with the see of Rome. 3736:, isn't it? If you think the sentence in question should be included, by all means, see what the BLP noticeboard thinks... 3586: 1547: 777: 492:

This page is blatantly NPOV, but I do not know enough about the specifics of Cox's clerical history etc to deal with it. -

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http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/priesthood/priestly-formation/faqs-priesthood-ordination-seminary.cfm

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Catholic (though I am an Anglican) so I don't have a dog in the "Catholic" thing other than the false advertising issue.

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would have been courteous - it's normal to ping all participants in a topic rather than just those supporting one side).

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either of the sites mentioned as a source! What "other men" do with photos taken in Vatican City is also irrelevant to

4868: 2370:. Any of the proposed options would work. Why an AfD was opened in the middle of a RM discussion is another question. 2362:, Cox is most certainly "Catholic"; he may not be "Roman Catholic." Over a month ago we were discussing moving this to 1961:. Clearly the current title is misleading, and with an appropriate hatnote he can be distinguished from the archbishop. 149: 5944:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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ambiguous disambiguation should not be used. The Anglican archbishop also served as a bishop, so this is ambiguous. --

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

2546:. What is described as his order (a kind of group), "Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church", includes the term 667: 439: 3608: 2587:

Cox isn't "Catholic" in the way the vast majority of readers will understand the term, ie, he's not connected to the

462:"Cox planned to protest against the ship being sailed into Ireland by the pro-choice feminist group Women on Waves." 5458:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160329162818/http://involve.ie/wp-content/themes/Involve/Magazine/VOT%20Nov%202008.pdf

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them, turn wine into the blood of Christ, and forgive people's sins using God's power - it's what Catholic priests

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is sanitizing his adventures. Published interviews of local people frame him as "a bit of a crackpot" in the 1990s.

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I'm beginning to wonder whether we should have this article. He is rapidly turning into a clause in a sentence the

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Everything seems to have a very fuzzy meaning. None of these Cox groups or individuals are found in the unofficial

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seems to point toward a Roman Catholic identity. But he is excommunicated and the groups are not Roman Catholic. –

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received a suspended jail sentence in the last few days after he admitted officiating over numerous sham marriages

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according to Howse – he wrote that, "Buckley is one of a bunch who have been made bishops by episcopi vagantes"

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Durcan told the court "it is disgraceful that a young man like this is duped into believing that he is married by

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https://web.archive.org/web/20160327143205/http://ciaranbroadbery.ie/images/letter_from_Cardinal_Razinger_001.jpg

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or something... Look, the way this works is simple. People add material to articles. If the material satisfies

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should be added into the article and other editors should know about these sites. I hope we both agree on that. –

4145: 3896: 3729:"Irishtimes.com points out that this plan "destroyed what would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines." 2879: 1646: 1619: 1584: 1495: 1244:

ultimately, it comes down to no reliable third party source that that shows he was ever consecrated as a bishop.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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I think Cox is not notable for an article but I think something about Cox and Buckley should be included in the

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They help, for example, people who are victims of forced labor or victims of sex trafficking or victims of war.

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in a way that implies the group is an organization within the Roman Catholic Church. It are not. Moreover the

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to insert your own commentary? The reference supplied does not say what you claimed it said. Simple as that.

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some rename; if he's not Catholic he's not Catholic and the current dab is misleading. At the same time, just

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Other men also use photos taken in Vatican City to imply a relationship with the Roman Catholic Church, e.g.

4900: 2905: 1929: 477: 5859: 5835: 5633: 5559: 5523: 5461: 5449: 5413: 5339: 4544: 4273: 2631:: If we're going to distinguish between "Catholic" and "Roman Catholic", then the Anglican (arch-)bishop is 2335:. "Bishop" alone is obviously unsuitable as the Anglican was also a bishop. "Catholic" creates problems. -- 2104: 1731: 106: 5875:

proposed move. Year of birth is an unnecessary disambiguator when there are more relevant ones. Agree with

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please address each item individually. I do not understand which ones you are writing about in this thread.

3618: 3143: 2824:– partial disambiguation is generally agreed to be unacceptable. This is not the only Bishop Michael Cox. 795:

The title needs to be changed to reflect this fact. I suggest "Michael Patrick Cox" as the article title. –

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neutrally in this context than "Cox says". The other option, of course, would be to just state that Cox

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bishop and nothing more. I would like to see a link that shows that he calls himself a Catholic bishop. –

1522:"There has been controversy over the validity of his consecration" when Howse wrote his opinion in 2006. 603:

would appear to be a bizarre construction, not used anywhere else. Cox is a Catholic bishop, just not a

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110228051241/http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/laois-offaly.html

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articles shows the 1976 acts by Thục were not normal and resulted in excommunication of all involved. I

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ordination of a bishop is an entirely different matter. If I were you, I'd take the uncontested move to

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There is nothing in the current version of the article that is not factual. I've removed the POV tag. -

155: 5558:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 5448:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 5338:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 4932: 2444:

Catholic. Roman Catholics do not get exclusive use of the term "Catholic", even if they think they do.

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and the source in question backs the statement. You can't remove it because you disagree with it or

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is expecting." Um, the judge appears unaware of the passage of the Status of Children Act of 1987.)

551:. I hope everyone is OK with this and the name I gave this article, but please feel free to edit :) 44: 5973: 5712:, it claims he founded Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church, which is something different. 5304: 5259: 5166: 5102: 5052: 4986: 4940: 4886: 4829: 4789: 4755: 4696: 4649: 4552: 4475: 4395: 4330: 4285: 4222: 4199:

removed with edit summary "Cox ministers to *people*. 'Gypsies' in the source? What's that about?!"

4173: 4088: 4019: 3971: 3915: 3846: 3813: 3759: 3710: 3632: 3508: 3457: 3319: 3285: 3222: 3158: 2993: 2979: 2861: 2857: 2758: 2577: 2431: 2354:- Well, this has all gotten very circular. On a somewhat pedantic but nonetheless important note - 2303: 2235: 1900: 1874: 1863: 1762: 1709: 1566: 1480: 1413: 1370: 1257: 1200:. I'm going to revert again and raise this on the BLP noticeboard for independent eyes to assess. 1179: 1106: 987: 973: 800: 753:

Durcan said: "This is the second example I have come across in this district of young people being

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according to Judge Patrick Durcan of the Children's Court in Ennis, Ireland, Cox "is not a bishop."

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Why does the article say that Cox's consecration was invalid? If, as is stated in the article on

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Howse wrote in his 2006 "Personal View" that "controversy over the validity" of one of Cox's acts

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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way comparable to an Irish cleric ministering to Irish Travellers, which is a lot more mundane.

4241:, obviously. He's a minister. Every priest I know ministers to Travellers. It's not notable. 3347: 5977: 5926: 5901: 5867: 5854:

per nomination. The qualifier "(bishop)" does, indeed, represent incomplete disambiguation.

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article, as is David Bell. Please stop treating this article's talk page as a personal forum.

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no, I will continue to use templates to distinguish what I write from previously added content.

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is good, news reports for the last 20+ years show he identified himself in several vague ways.

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I do not understand your judge–pope comparison. Nevertheless, you are right about my theism

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is also an unreliable source that should never be used in the WP articles about Michael or

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is not an option. He's certainly not the primary topic for a bishop called Michael Cox, so

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may be seen as an auxiliary force who promote the Roman Catholic Church as first preference

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Last I heard, all Tridentines were still Catholic, just like all Anglicans are. Maybe not

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really a neutral label, and I was hoping that someone might come up with something better.

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has some discussion about Cox as a Catholic but not Roman Catholic, but what is found on

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linked to. It's you, having a discussion with yourself, with nobody else participating.

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and 2 depict a man in a cassock with St Peter's Basilica in Vatican City as a background.

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Can you stop using the coloured-in templates, please? It's distracting, and unnecessary.

4014:)? You did remove what I thought was not contentious and well sourced in this article. – 3925:

Can you stop using the coloured-in templates, please? It's distracting, and unnecessary.

5969: 5584:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 5474:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 5364:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 5300: 5285: 5255: 5162: 5098: 5048: 4982: 4936: 4882: 4825: 4785: 4751: 4692: 4645: 4548: 4471: 4391: 4326: 4281: 4218: 4169: 4084: 4015: 3967: 3911: 3842: 3809: 3755: 3706: 3628: 3569: 3556:

has shown that the consensus, as of April 2016, is that Cox is a controversial figure.

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Conference press office, the fact that they have no jurisdiction needs to be included.

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Knowledge:No original research/Noticeboard#Ciarán Broadbery and Michael Cox (clergyman)

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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fair enough, but you may want to familiarize yourself with more background material. –

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without a location. I do not see that the Cox of this article has an association with

1726:. This may need to be looked into since at the very least a hatnote should be added.-- 5985: 5204: 4625: 3784:

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Nobody disputes that the boat sank.

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with a location while the proposed disambiguation for the subject of this article is

1454: 1362: 1299: 1193: 1143: 1082:. The judge said: "This man is not a bishop and he is not entitled to marry anybody." 552: 5299:

It is about discussion of identity elsewhere on this talkpage not about inclusion. –

3966:)? Please read about Thục and this event to familiarize yourself with the content. – 2567: 2298:(Cox is not found in it). I think it is, nevertheless, the best suggestion so far. – 5935: 5739: 5670: 5192: 4237:

Why did I remove that Cox ministers to "Travelers" (sic)? Because it's a complete

4049: 3490: 3475: 3439: 3420: 3372: 1466: 1298:. Which is not unencyclopedic. If you insist on including them (which is dodgy on 608: 493: 4855: 4538:

do you think adding an additional reference would be adequate: Cox said in a 2008

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So what's the best way forward? I think it's clear the article isn't going to be

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citation in the article that contradicts the judge's statement. Boyle's list is a

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but I doubt the general readership would get that. It also verges on endorsement.

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Of 15 photos in the photo gallery (in April 2016), 2 photos depict Pope Francis,

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He seems to be a "crackpot" or a "loose canon" whose notability is his antics.

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if the only citation it has is to a tertiary source of questionable reliability"

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said something about his "denomination" being clear? Why does that matter? Per

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Yes, there is indeed such a Roman Catholic parish. Your point? Look - if Cox

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removed with edit summary "Not per source - personal opinion being introduced?"

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Of course this is another red herring which does not describe what Cox does. –

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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It is certainly not related to a Cox group as implied on the dubious website

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is contentious? It is very straight forward question. I believe it is not. –

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But Buckley doubted the validity of Cox's sacramental acts and wrote to the

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whether the RC church considers him a "bishop" or not. See such sources as

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A 2006 personal opinion by a columnist, Christopher Howse, published in the

1408: 54:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: 3802:

Cox is exclusively notable for his controversies. My opinion was explained

3503:, Catechism of the Catholic Church, and in Code of Canon Law translation. – 1463:"the press office of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales" 3495:

I am not arguing with you. The sacrament is ordination. In the context of

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commenting, in part, on the personal website of his subject, Pat Buckley (

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no, the judge's statements in court should be given prominence to prevent

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someone who parades around and calls himself a bishop, but is not a bishop

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http://involve.ie/wp-content/themes/Involve/Magazine/VOT%20Nov%202008.pdf

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Cox said to Lynch that "I recognise their customs and appreciate them."

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but only one writer, as far as I can see, labeled him as such so far. –

1099:"bishops of major denominations are notable by virtue of their status." 306: 5572:

http://ciaranbroadbery.ie/images/letter_from_Cardinal_Razinger_001.jpg

5147: 4598: 3692:"destroyed what would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines" 3601:"destroyed what would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines" 3217:

yes I am Catholic. Could you please show me where you see this bias. –

3128:"bishops of major denominations are notable by virtue of their status" 2564: 5796:, another bishop of the same name with more historical significance. 5677:. If you continue to remove sourced content, you risk being blocked. 4624:

is used. The articles that I have found about Cox do not write about

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there was a shift in style that took place. For example, in the 1984

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Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason."

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Domínguez was irregularly consecrated in January 1976 by Archbishop

2554:, the semantic drift of that term causes confusion as does the term 222:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the 5812:

would not be suitable for the reasons highlighted in the last RM.

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and other policy requirements, great, it remains. If it doesn't,

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Since 2006, the disambiguation page had labeled him as a Palmarian

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Judge Durcan stated, in court, in 2014 that Cox "is not a bishop."

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duped into marriage by someone who has no function in that regards

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They even translate liturgical texts into languages people speak.

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that makes claims about third parties but does not cite sources.

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was not as clear in the 20th century. Looking at the sources in

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in Ireland, there is The Parish of the Travelling People in the

4048:. Your constant questions about every edit are now bordering on 2948:"bogus marriages" of immigrants that Buckley was associated with 2422:

his credibility. Reliable sources mostly say he calls himself a

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reported that there was doubt in 1998. Howse's 2006 opinion, in

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This man is not a bishop and he is not entitled to marry anybody

2286:) Sadly, it is also what some of these people are called, e.g. 591:, if a move is controversial, there is a process you must use: 5917:. I'm easy either way. But clearly can't stay where it is. -- 4903:

is a webstore structure that presents bishops as its product.

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In 2001, Cox planned to convert his 75-foot (23 m) commercial

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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially

89: 39: 26: 5352:

http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/laois-offaly.html

4899:. Ironically, because of the file structure of the website, 3955:, it was the extra line endings you added that confused me. 1344:

a judge speaking to his court is qualified privilege. Yes,

5562:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

5452:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

5342:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

4750:

Can you find a source for your opinion? We can add that. –

2810:

as IMO the year of birth is an unnecessary disambiguator.

1899:: These seem to me to be erroneous interpretations of the 1216:. Why are they even included?! Please stop edit warring. 416:

RM, Michael Cox (Catholic bishop) → Michael Cox (bishop),

2950:. Cox is not named in that article. Circa 2013, Buckley " 1526:

Howse's "Personal View" is used to support this sentence:

1093:

Adding "(independent Catholic bishop)" is not. Moreover,

5955:

I am confused about the rationale for moving this page.

5738:

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

3841:). Does anyone want me to move here to use or work on? – 2591:. As such it's very misleading to a lot of readers. And 565:

Due to the recent edits, I've submitted this article to

5784: 5445: 5335: 5028: 5008: 4911:

1 depicts Pope Francis with Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI,

4738: 4732: 4261: 4198: 4163: 4150: 3883: 3804: 3625:"would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines" 3605:"would have been Cox's latest effort to grab headlines" 2848: 2745: 2034: 1722:

There is actually another Bishop that shares this name

1674: 1471: 1422:

evidence to back their claim and have no jurisdiction.

403: 398: 393: 388: 383: 378: 3837:

I gathered what I could find about Cox on a workpage (

2676:, which leaves the renaming question. Do we go for a 1403:

As explained on the BLP noticeboard, "privilege" is a

1048:

on the validity of a civil marriage is one thing, his

848:

are more appropriate and that the current name isn't.

5934:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

3122:

your opinion about notability is different than what

2878:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

1987:, mentioned above. This may be a helpful compromise. 1511:). I gleen two facts about Cox from Howse's opinion: 4202:

What is not in the source? Here is what you removed:

3908:"Not per source - personal opinion being introduced" 3887:

What is not in the source? Here is what you removed:

1461:

article, I read "Catholic Media Office" but thought

1036:. What he actually said was "I still maintain that 305:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 5708:And the article doesn't claim that Cox founded the 5594:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 5484:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 5374:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 5003:This is a bullshit practice and a prime example of 2530:informally – even the church name does not include 1597:. No further edits should be made to this section. 5879:: editors should read the earlier move discussion 5026:I am not poisoning the well. I disagree with your 3032:to the Palmarians; it goes straight back to Thục. 2892:. No further edits should be made to this section. 5251: 5154: 4151:have added references about this into the article 1457:(i.e. my excessive consumption of strong tea) of 972:"Any controversial, alleged fact is essentially 4927:in 2012 (Bell is a self-described Tridentine), 4850:"The Official Website of: The Order Mater Dei" 4806:I am not supplying sources for edit summaries. 4211: 3900: 3690:The 2004 AP is not only about the sinking that 2289:Independent bishops: an international directory 951:I agree with Anglicanus that at least the word 741: 6017:Start-Class Ireland articles of Low-importance 5808:; any of them would be suitable. Former title 5580:This message was posted before February 2018. 5470:This message was posted before February 2018. 5360:This message was posted before February 2018. 4493:notable, and that's included and referenced. 3839:User:BoBoMisiu/28-March-2016-draft-michael-cox 3575:In 2004, Cox's 84-foot (26 m) trawler, called 2940:a suspended and excommunicated Catholic priest 4204: 3889: 3558: 3419:than "consecration" for the act. Understood? 2536: 2276:The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church 1528: 8: 5653:Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church 4467:which is one of two such parishes in Europe. 4124:. No, I am not inserting my own commentary. 4006:of course this is not a forum. Do you think 2749:. If that is verifiably the case, then 3rd: 2708:as the most neutral and precise title. 2nd: 2542:Palmariana de los Carmelitas de la Santa Faz 3377:, thanks for your edits. Just to note, Cox 2164:Well, I don't think we could get away with 450:Cox are regarded as "valid but unlawful". 135: 5550:I have just modified one external link on 5440:I have just modified one external link on 5330:I have just modified one external link on 1583:The following is a closed discussion of a 1411:. It doesn't make him the Pope, speaking 467: 251: 163: 5889:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 5806:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 2854:Michael Cox (Independent Catholic bishop) 2796:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 2690:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 2368:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 1058:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 1038:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 897:. (Though a ping from either yourself or 887:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 842:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 778:"Teen duped into marriage by fake bishop" 698:Michael Cox (independent Catholic bishop) 2513:? – outside the scope of this discussion 1794:As long as there is not a conflict with 1282:Whereas all I see is you presenting the 4895:Another website associated with Cox is 3415:. Note that "ordination" is currently 3336: 1060:as a workable compromise, and move on. 601:"Michael Cox (Irish bishop, born 1945)" 253: 165: 5243: 5011:- pretty much the only contributor to 4079:no, I am not disruptive. Do you think 3907: 3702: 3691: 3624: 3604: 3600: 3499:, both terms are used in documents on 3352:sfn error: no target: CITEREFCIC1983 ( 3127: 2942:, who took the website down after the 2522: 1538: 1462: 1098: 1090: 971: 956: 4640:is the American standard spelling of 2956:International weddings by arrangement 2584:; modified 13:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC) 2523:"all Tridentines were still Catholic" 399:Michael Cox (Irish bishop, born 1945) 7: 5244:"involve claims about third parties" 4262:replied about use of templates above 3698:The odd duck quacked more than once. 3137:section. Cox ministers to Travelers. 2069:Jack English (footballer, born 1923) 1882:failure as both were/are bishops -- 1602:The result of the move request was: 299:This article is within the scope of 208:This article is within the scope of 5992:Biography articles of living people 4280:Do you think this is contentious? – 3343: 154:It is of interest to the following 5794:Michael Cox (archbishop of Cashel) 4872:about the Roman Catholic cathedral 4719:Roman Catholic Church jurisdiction 3951:You are right about only removing 2506:there are two separate questions: 2295:Who are the independent Catholics? 2226:He certainly fits the category of 2122:Michael Cox (archbishop of Cashel) 1844:Michael Cox (archbishop of Cashel) 1796:Michael Cox (archbishop of Cashel) 1724:Michael Cox (archbishop of Cashel) 1361:and I think the article should be 25: 5554:. Please take a moment to review 5444:. Please take a moment to review 5334:. Please take a moment to review 5047:discussions where I will reply. – 4736:which is fine. But, you also the 4306:normally minister to Travellers? 3140:Traveler practise child marriage. 2550:as part of the description of an 2036:; so it is not that uncommon. -- 5911:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 5893:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 5802:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 5756:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2800:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2737:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2714:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2686:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2364:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2329:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2209:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 2145:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 1042:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 846:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 394:Michael Cox (independent bishop) 364: 286: 276: 255: 195: 185: 167: 136: 95:This article must adhere to the 43: 6012:Low-importance Ireland articles 5915:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 5785:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 3823:coherent except on that basis. 3627:should remain in the article. – 2808:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 2706:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 2333:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 2266:in all the reading I did about 1985:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 1926:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 404:Michael Cox (bishop, born 1945) 339:This article has been rated as 232:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography 50:This article was nominated for 6002:WikiProject Biography articles 5997:Start-Class biography articles 5252:§ Requested move 22 March 2016 5155:§ Requested move 22 March 2016 4132:claim and I believe it is not 4098:Do you believe you can ignore 3906:Please quote what you read as 2751:Michael Cox (Palmarian bishop) 1302:grounds) then they need to be 442:, Archbishop Thuc consecrated 235:Template:WikiProject Biography 1: 6022:All WikiProject Ireland pages 5810:Michael Cox (Catholic bishop) 5648:04:27, 31 December 2017 (UTC) 5226:and what are purported to be 5222:there is distinction between 4584:The spelling in the article, 4268:According to David Lynch, in 3895:of the Roman Catholic Church. 2934:even Buckley, on the defunct 2870:11:36, 17 November 2016 (UTC) 2844:Michael Cox (Catholic bishop) 2292:(Cox is not found in it) and 1670:Michael Cox (Catholic bishop) 1663:14:24, 21 November 2016 (UTC) 1635:17:09, 20 November 2016 (UTC) 776:Deegan, Gordon (2014-02-13). 556:00:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC) 379:Michael Cox (Catholic bishop) 319:Knowledge:WikiProject Ireland 313:and see a list of open tasks. 98:biographies of living persons 6007:Start-Class Ireland articles 5232:ordermaterdei.fortunecity.ws 5159:ordermaterdei.fortunecity.ws 5091:ordermaterdei.fortunecity.ws 5034:ordermaterdei.fortunecity.ws 4879:ordermaterdei.fortunecity.ws 4852:ordermaterdei.fortunecity.ws 2166:Michael Cox (vagante bishop) 1576:Requested move 22 March 2016 1028:Now you're putting words in 757:. It is very, very serious." 579:16:44, 27 January 2011 (UTC) 561:Original research discussion 535:04:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC) 322:Template:WikiProject Ireland 220:contribute to the discussion 18:Talk:Michael Cox (clergyman) 5236:archbishophynesomd.webs.com 5095:archbishophynesomd.webs.com 5038:archbishophynesomd.webs.com 5029:change to the section title 4897:archbishophynesomd.webs.com 4206:Cox ministers to Travelers. 3135:Irish Travellers § Marriage 2899:Another fly in the ointment 2794:My first preference is for 2704:My first preference is for 2389:"most certainly" Catholic. 1496:"Personal View" section of 668:Roman Catholic Womenpriests 519:05:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC) 440:Ngô Ðình Thuc Pierre Martin 110:must be removed immediately 6038: 5731:Requested move 2 July 2018 5611:(last update: 5 June 2024) 5547:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 5501:(last update: 5 June 2024) 5437:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 5391:(last update: 5 June 2024) 5327:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 5309:15:59, 21 April 2016 (UTC) 5295:15:43, 21 April 2016 (UTC) 5264:15:02, 21 April 2016 (UTC) 5214:10:14, 21 April 2016 (UTC) 5171:02:34, 21 April 2016 (UTC) 5133:01:49, 21 April 2016 (UTC) 5107:23:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 5085:22:03, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 5057:21:46, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 5022:20:59, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 4991:18:01, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 4965:17:09, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 4945:14:07, 20 April 2016 (UTC) 4891:21:08, 19 April 2016 (UTC) 4854:is not a reliable source. 4834:17:42, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4813:16:45, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4794:16:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4772:15:39, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4760:15:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4701:22:36, 19 April 2016 (UTC) 4669:16:26, 19 April 2016 (UTC) 4654:20:55, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4580:20:10, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4557:18:03, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4519:17:26, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4500:15:00, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4480:14:53, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4439:20:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4400:18:58, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4367:17:49, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4335:17:40, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4313:16:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4290:16:21, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4248:15:37, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4227:15:04, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4178:18:23, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4161:If it is contentious then 4142:Clemente Domínguez y Gómez 4109:15:02, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4093:14:46, 18 April 2016 (UTC) 4059:17:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 4024:17:32, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 3995:16:46, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 3976:16:13, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 3937:15:33, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 3920:14:55, 17 April 2016 (UTC) 3851:22:44, 19 April 2016 (UTC) 3833:16:23, 19 April 2016 (UTC) 3818:22:20, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3791:20:59, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3764:19:01, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3743:17:57, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3715:15:17, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3676:13:36, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3654:13:25, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3637:12:29, 16 April 2016 (UTC) 3599:points out that this plan 3527:22:55, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 3513:22:30, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 3484:21:37, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 3462:21:05, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 3429:20:22, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 3398:15:10, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 3324:20:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 3302:18:11, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 3290:22:02, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3252:21:25, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 3227:20:19, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 3206:11:21, 26 March 2016 (UTC) 3163:15:31, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3111:14:32, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3076:14:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3062:14:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3042:14:05, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3023:04:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 3006:02:42, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 2984:21:02, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 2922:18:05, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 2834:04:13, 28 April 2016 (UTC) 2817:21:50, 13 April 2016 (UTC) 2784:13:10, 13 April 2016 (UTC) 2763:15:58, 10 April 2016 (UTC) 2692:and any other candidates? 2046:03:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC) 2028:16:56, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 2002:09:34, 26 March 2016 (UTC) 1976:19:39, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 1942:05:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC) 1921:04:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 1892:02:55, 25 March 2016 (UTC) 1868:15:14, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 1828:05:02, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 1808:01:38, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 1787:11:16, 23 March 2016 (UTC) 1767:23:16, 22 March 2016 (UTC) 1736:22:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC) 1714:18:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC) 1700:: conventional naming per 1692:18:19, 22 March 2016 (UTC) 1571:15:10, 19 March 2016 (UTC) 1485:19:17, 22 March 2016 (UTC) 1429:18:34, 21 March 2016 (UTC) 1375:14:49, 21 March 2016 (UTC) 1313:18:13, 20 March 2016 (UTC) 1262:17:40, 20 March 2016 (UTC) 1223:16:59, 20 March 2016 (UTC) 1207:12:31, 20 March 2016 (UTC) 1184:12:22, 20 March 2016 (UTC) 1162:11:42, 20 March 2016 (UTC) 1111:15:23, 19 March 2016 (UTC) 1067:16:51, 18 March 2016 (UTC) 992:15:56, 18 March 2016 (UTC) 908:12:10, 18 March 2016 (UTC) 858:03:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC) 805:12:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC) 709:19:27, 18 April 2015 (UTC) 680:23:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC) 653:16:27, 13 April 2015 (UTC) 634:12:09, 13 April 2015 (UTC) 618:08:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC) 496:03:11, 7 September 2005 345:project's importance scale 5978:17:42, 1 April 2020 (UTC) 5775:15:02, 19 July 2018 (UTC) 5719:13:42, 10 June 2018 (UTC) 4856:An image depicting a mass 4146:Palmarian Catholic Church 3871:Dominguez by Thuc in 1976 3660:Also, just to note, it's 2731:19:55, 9 April 2016 (UTC) 2699:11:14, 9 April 2016 (UTC) 2665:23:05, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2654:22:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2608:14:31, 8 April 2016 (UTC) 2582:12:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC) 2491:11:33, 8 April 2016 (UTC) 2451:08:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC) 2436:23:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2410:23:05, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2399:22:06, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2377:16:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2345:13:16, 7 April 2016 (UTC) 2308:17:33, 5 April 2016 (UTC) 2255:16:33, 5 April 2016 (UTC) 2240:15:20, 5 April 2016 (UTC) 2196:18:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC) 2178:18:41, 4 April 2016 (UTC) 2160:17:59, 4 April 2016 (UTC) 2137:17:19, 4 April 2016 (UTC) 2109:16:01, 3 April 2016 (UTC) 2086:18:49, 3 April 2016 (UTC) 593:Knowledge:Requested moves 482:23:33, 31 July 2023 (UTC) 338: 271: 180: 162: 33:Skip to table of contents 5941:Please do not modify it. 5927:13:19, 4 July 2018 (UTC) 5902:11:15, 4 July 2018 (UTC) 5868:03:03, 4 July 2018 (UTC) 5847:22:26, 2 July 2018 (UTC) 5825:18:04, 2 July 2018 (UTC) 5745:Please do not modify it. 5700:13:51, 8 June 2018 (UTC) 5684:11:30, 8 June 2018 (UTC) 5538:16:03, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 5428:19:29, 4 June 2017 (UTC) 5179:It's almost like you're 3588:Cox also planned to use 3541:Effort to grab headlines 2885:Please do not modify it. 2569:thecatholicdirectory.com 2278:, to exist only for the 1856:Cashel, County Tipperary 1590:Please do not modify it. 1490:Howse in telegraph.co.uk 643:Knowledge:Article titles 597:Knowledge:Article titles 454:20:09, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) 32: 5951:Page move, 1 April 2020 5833:Rationale makes sense. 5792:due to the presence of 5788:– The present title is 5543:External links modified 5433:External links modified 5323:External links modified 5280:And, once again, using 5149:The page also mentions 4864:same image is on page 5 4217:Why was this removed? – 4136:to be removed. Reading 1930:Michael Cox (born 1945) 505:02:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC) 389:Michael Cox (clergyman) 5665:. Knowledge relies on 5663:this newspaper article 4215: 4210: 4120:no, I am not ignoring 3904: 3899: 3594: 2936:bishoppatbuckley.co.uk 2537: 1553:Including these gives 1535: 1472:corrected my poor edit 792: 144:This article is rated 5891:, or 2nd preference, 4622:Gypsies or Travellers 4617:The Traveller-Gypsies 4465:Archdiocese of Dublin 3988:This is not a forum. 3450:Sydney Morning Herald 3100:"Back off"?! Really? 2946:and police uncovered 2511:Roman Catholic (term) 2223:"in use as" a church. 2017:normal practice. See 696:I would also support 569:for further input. -- 502:Brother Dave Thompson 434:Consecration invalid? 211:WikiProject Biography 64:, 25 March 2016, see 5881:a few sections above 5798:Michael Cox (bishop) 5780:Michael Cox (bishop) 5592:regular verification 5552:Michael Cox (bishop) 5482:regular verification 5442:Michael Cox (bishop) 5372:regular verification 5332:Michael Cox (bishop) 4428:None of which is in 2849:Michael Cox (bishop) 2804:Michael Cox (bishop) 2768:Michael Cox (bishop) 2741:Michael Cox (bishop) 2710:Michael Cox (bishop) 2682:Michael Cox (bishop) 2678:preference-type poll 2118:Michael Cox (bishop) 1846:is disambiguated as 1675:Michael Cox (bishop) 1613:page mover non-admin 384:Michael Cox (bishop) 74:, 6 April 2009, see 5582:After February 2018 5472:After February 2018 5362:After February 2018 4870:lacrossetribune.com 4540:Voice of Travellers 4270:Voice of Travellers 4186:Travellers in Kantz 4158:is not contentious. 3703:"From 30 years ago" 3276:No political office 2802:, third preference 2774:does not apply. -- 1357:, I think he fails 302:WikiProject Ireland 5636:InternetArchiveBot 5587:InternetArchiveBot 5526:InternetArchiveBot 5477:InternetArchiveBot 5416:InternetArchiveBot 5367:InternetArchiveBot 5045:Talk:Arnold Mathew 5009:you've used before 5005:poisoning the well 4164:an academic source 2120:is ambiguous with 1292:entirely different 980:WP:DONTUSETERTIARY 553:Aled Dilwyn Fisher 444:Clemente Domínguez 238:biography articles 150:content assessment 5866: 5822: 5612: 5502: 5392: 4901:the about us page 3566:The Little Bishop 3197:WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES 3124:WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES 2798:, 2nd preference 2605: 2207:I agree, I think 2193: 2157: 2134: 1983:: I'm happy with 1747:there has been a 1665: 1659: 1632: 1616: 1561:to the article. – 1288:valid but illicit 1095:WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES 1054:Valid but illicit 957:"has no function" 782:irishexaminer.com 484: 472:comment added by 431: 430: 424: 420:, 22 March 2016, 359: 358: 355: 354: 351: 350: 250: 249: 246: 245: 130: 129: 88: 87: 84: 83: 38: 37: 16:(Redirected from 6029: 5962: 5959:Chad The Goatman 5943: 5899: 5858: 5844: 5838: 5820: 5787: 5767: 5747: 5716: 5681: 5671:reliable sources 5646: 5637: 5610: 5609: 5588: 5536: 5527: 5500: 5499: 5478: 5426: 5417: 5390: 5389: 5368: 5292: 5211: 5185:Streisand effect 5144: 5082: 5031: 5019: 4978:episcupus vagans 4975: 4962: 4823: 4810: 4782: 4769: 4741: 4735: 4729: 4679: 4612:Irish Travellers 4577: 4537: 4497: 4462: 4436: 4377: 4364: 4323: 4310: 4264: 4258: 4245: 4201: 4196: 4166: 4153: 4119: 4106: 4078: 4056: 4010:is contentious ( 4005: 3992: 3962:is contentious ( 3947: 3934: 3886: 3881: 3807: 3801: 3788: 3753: 3740: 3686: 3673: 3665:years ago?! See 3651: 3551: 3494: 3443: 3395: 3376: 3358: 3357: 3341: 3312: 3299: 3237: 3216: 3203: 3121: 3108: 3059: 2971:Ciarán Broadbery 2964:in 2006 his book 2944:UK Border Agency 2933: 2887: 2860:of the context. 2851: 2814: 2748: 2696: 2662: 2603: 2562: 2544: 2505: 2448: 2420: 2407: 2374: 2361: 2265: 2228:episcopus vagans 2218: 2206: 2191: 2155: 2132: 2066: 2025: 1842: 1784: 1756: 1750: 1746: 1677: 1661: 1657: 1649: 1630: 1622: 1610: 1592: 1532: 1517:episcopus vagans 1510: 1504:bishoppatbuckley 1474: 1452: 1426: 1343: 1310: 1243: 1220: 1204: 1192:It is clearly a 1173: 1159: 1077: 1064: 950: 905: 896: 839: 790: 789: 769: 756: 746: 739: 650: 615: 422: 368: 367: 361: 327: 326: 325:Ireland articles 323: 320: 317: 296: 291: 290: 289: 280: 273: 272: 267: 259: 252: 240: 239: 236: 233: 230: 216:join the project 205: 203:Biography portal 200: 199: 198: 189: 182: 181: 171: 164: 147: 141: 140: 132: 118:this noticeboard 90: 56: 55: 47: 40: 27: 21: 6037: 6036: 6032: 6031: 6030: 6028: 6027: 6026: 5982: 5981: 5956: 5953: 5948: 5939: 5909:move to either 5897: 5877:User:Cuchullain 5842: 5836: 5783: 5761: 5743: 5733: 5714: 5710:Orthodox Church 5679: 5655: 5640: 5635: 5603: 5596:have permission 5586: 5560:this simple FaQ 5545: 5530: 5525: 5493: 5486:have permission 5476: 5450:this simple FaQ 5435: 5420: 5415: 5383: 5376:have permission 5366: 5340:this simple FaQ 5325: 5290: 5209: 5138: 5080: 5027: 5017: 4969: 4960: 4929:Ralph Napierski 4848: 4846:Order Mater Dei 4817: 4808: 4776: 4767: 4737: 4731: 4723: 4721: 4673: 4628:. The sense of 4575: 4531: 4495: 4456: 4434: 4371: 4362: 4317: 4308: 4260: 4252: 4243: 4197: 4190: 4188: 4162: 4149: 4113: 4104: 4072: 4054: 3999: 3990: 3941: 3932: 3882: 3875: 3873: 3803: 3795: 3786: 3747: 3738: 3680: 3671: 3649: 3562:fishing trawler 3545: 3543: 3488: 3433: 3393: 3370: 3368: 3363: 3362: 3361: 3351: 3342: 3338: 3306: 3297: 3278: 3231: 3210: 3201: 3115: 3106: 3057: 2994:Sinéad O'Connor 2960:Wayback Machine 2927: 2906:list of bishops 2901: 2896: 2883: 2856:, according to 2847: 2812: 2806:; would oppose 2744: 2694: 2660: 2589:Catholic Church 2560: 2495: 2446: 2414: 2405: 2372: 2355: 2259: 2212: 2200: 2060: 2023: 1836: 1782: 1754: 1748: 1740: 1680:Catholic Church 1673: 1647: 1620: 1588: 1578: 1530: 1507: 1505: 1502: 1498:telegraph.co.uk 1492: 1470: 1446: 1424: 1337: 1308: 1250:telegraph.co.uk 1237: 1218: 1202: 1167: 1157: 1137: 1080:WP:FALSEBALANCE 1071: 1062: 978:, according to 940: 903: 890: 829: 791: 775: 774: 767: 754: 744: 729: 648: 613: 586: 563: 545: 490: 460: 436: 408: 365: 324: 321: 318: 315: 314: 292: 287: 285: 265: 237: 234: 231: 228: 227: 201: 196: 194: 148:on Knowledge's 145: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 6035: 6033: 6025: 6024: 6019: 6014: 6009: 6004: 5999: 5994: 5984: 5983: 5952: 5949: 5947: 5946: 5936:requested move 5930: 5929: 5904: 5870: 5849: 5751: 5750: 5740:requested move 5734: 5732: 5729: 5724: 5723: 5722: 5721: 5703: 5702: 5654: 5651: 5630: 5629: 5622: 5575: 5574: 5566:Added archive 5544: 5541: 5520: 5519: 5512: 5465: 5464: 5456:Added archive 5434: 5431: 5410: 5409: 5402: 5355: 5354: 5346:Added archive 5324: 5321: 5320: 5319: 5318: 5317: 5316: 5315: 5314: 5313: 5312: 5311: 5282:WP:COMMONSENSE 5271: 5270: 5269: 5268: 5267: 5266: 5248:WP:EXCEPTIONAL 5228:official sites 5220:WP:COMMONSENSE 5183:to engender a 5174: 5173: 5120: 5119: 5118: 5117: 5116: 5115: 5114: 5113: 5112: 5111: 5110: 5109: 5066: 5065: 5064: 5063: 5062: 5061: 5060: 5059: 5041: 4996: 4995: 4994: 4993: 4847: 4844: 4843: 4842: 4841: 4840: 4839: 4838: 4837: 4836: 4799: 4798: 4797: 4796: 4720: 4717: 4716: 4715: 4714: 4713: 4712: 4711: 4710: 4709: 4708: 4707: 4706: 4705: 4704: 4703: 4688: 4682: 4564: 4563: 4562: 4561: 4560: 4559: 4524: 4523: 4522: 4521: 4503: 4502: 4454: 4453: 4452: 4451: 4450: 4449: 4448: 4447: 4446: 4445: 4444: 4443: 4442: 4441: 4413: 4412: 4411: 4410: 4409: 4408: 4407: 4406: 4405: 4404: 4403: 4402: 4344: 4343: 4342: 4341: 4340: 4339: 4338: 4337: 4295: 4294: 4293: 4292: 4278: 4275: 4266: 4234: 4233: 4187: 4184: 4183: 4182: 4181: 4180: 4159: 4130:WP:EXCEPTIONAL 4070: 4069: 4068: 4067: 4066: 4065: 4064: 4063: 4062: 4061: 4033: 4032: 4031: 4030: 4029: 4028: 4027: 4026: 3981: 3980: 3979: 3978: 3956: 3949: 3927: 3926: 3872: 3869: 3868: 3867: 3866: 3865: 3864: 3863: 3862: 3861: 3860: 3859: 3858: 3857: 3856: 3855: 3854: 3853: 3773: 3772: 3771: 3770: 3769: 3768: 3767: 3766: 3720: 3719: 3718: 3717: 3699: 3688: 3657: 3656: 3597:Irishtimes.com 3570:Women on Waves 3542: 3539: 3538: 3537: 3536: 3535: 3534: 3533: 3532: 3531: 3530: 3529: 3367: 3364: 3360: 3359: 3335: 3334: 3330: 3329: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3277: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3271: 3270: 3269: 3268: 3267: 3266: 3265: 3264: 3263: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3258: 3257: 3256: 3255: 3254: 3195:That's nice. 3178: 3177: 3176: 3175: 3174: 3173: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3169: 3168: 3167: 3166: 3165: 3131: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3082: 3081: 3080: 3079: 3078: 3045: 3044: 3029: 3028: 3027: 3026: 3025: 2987: 2986: 2967: 2900: 2897: 2895: 2894: 2880:requested move 2874: 2873: 2872: 2862:Chicbyaccident 2837: 2836: 2819: 2791: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2787: 2786: 2670: 2669: 2668: 2667: 2625: 2624: 2623: 2622: 2621: 2620: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2612: 2611: 2610: 2519: 2518: 2517: 2514: 2468: 2467: 2466: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2457: 2380: 2379: 2348: 2347: 2321: 2320: 2319: 2318: 2317: 2316: 2315: 2314: 2313: 2312: 2311: 2310: 2140: 2139: 2111: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2053: 2052: 2051: 2050: 2049: 2048: 2005: 2004: 1978: 1955: 1954: 1953: 1952: 1951: 1950: 1949: 1948: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1944: 1831: 1830: 1810: 1789: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1717: 1716: 1667: 1600: 1599: 1585:requested move 1579: 1577: 1574: 1551: 1550: 1545: 1542: 1541:he is a bishop 1524: 1523: 1520: 1491: 1488: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1434: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1350: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1315: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1209: 1187: 1186: 1136: 1133: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1121: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1083: 1009: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1003: 1002: 1001: 1000: 999: 998: 997: 996: 995: 994: 968:WP:TERTIARYUSE 965:WP:SELFPUBLISH 923: 922: 921: 920: 919: 918: 917: 916: 915: 914: 913: 912: 911: 910: 871: 870: 869: 868: 867: 866: 865: 864: 863: 862: 861: 860: 816: 815: 814: 813: 812: 811: 810: 809: 808: 807: 793: 786:Irish Examiner 772: 766:Durcan said: " 718: 717: 716: 715: 714: 713: 712: 711: 687: 686: 685: 684: 683: 682: 658: 657: 656: 655: 637: 636: 585: 582: 562: 559: 544: 541: 540: 539: 538: 537: 524: 523: 522: 521: 508: 507: 489: 486: 459: 456: 435: 432: 429: 428: 427: 426: 407: 406: 401: 396: 391: 386: 381: 372: 369: 357: 356: 353: 352: 349: 348: 341:Low-importance 337: 331: 330: 328: 311:the discussion 298: 297: 294:Ireland portal 281: 269: 268: 266:Low‑importance 260: 248: 247: 244: 243: 241: 207: 206: 190: 178: 177: 172: 160: 159: 153: 142: 128: 127: 123:this help page 107:poorly sourced 93: 86: 85: 82: 81: 80: 79: 69: 48: 36: 35: 30: 24: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 6034: 6023: 6020: 6018: 6015: 6013: 6010: 6008: 6005: 6003: 6000: 5998: 5995: 5993: 5990: 5989: 5987: 5980: 5979: 5975: 5971: 5966: 5960: 5950: 5945: 5942: 5937: 5932: 5931: 5928: 5924: 5920: 5916: 5912: 5908: 5905: 5903: 5900: 5894: 5890: 5886: 5882: 5878: 5874: 5871: 5869: 5865: 5861: 5857: 5856:Roman Spinner 5853: 5850: 5848: 5845: 5840: 5839: 5832: 5831:Support move. 5829: 5828: 5827: 5826: 5823: 5817: 5815: 5811: 5807: 5803: 5799: 5795: 5791: 5786: 5781: 5777: 5776: 5773: 5772: 5768: 5766: 5765: 5758: 5757: 5749: 5746: 5741: 5736: 5735: 5730: 5728: 5720: 5717: 5711: 5707: 5706: 5705: 5704: 5701: 5697: 5693: 5692:TheDodoBird01 5688: 5687: 5686: 5685: 5682: 5676: 5675:don't like it 5672: 5668: 5664: 5660: 5659:TheDodoBird01 5652: 5650: 5649: 5644: 5639: 5638: 5627: 5623: 5620: 5616: 5615: 5614: 5607: 5601: 5597: 5593: 5589: 5583: 5578: 5573: 5569: 5565: 5564: 5563: 5561: 5557: 5553: 5548: 5542: 5540: 5539: 5534: 5529: 5528: 5517: 5513: 5510: 5506: 5505: 5504: 5497: 5491: 5487: 5483: 5479: 5473: 5468: 5463: 5459: 5455: 5454: 5453: 5451: 5447: 5443: 5438: 5432: 5430: 5429: 5424: 5419: 5418: 5407: 5403: 5400: 5396: 5395: 5394: 5387: 5381: 5377: 5373: 5369: 5363: 5358: 5353: 5349: 5345: 5344: 5343: 5341: 5337: 5333: 5328: 5322: 5310: 5306: 5302: 5298: 5297: 5296: 5293: 5287: 5283: 5279: 5278: 5277: 5276: 5275: 5274: 5273: 5272: 5265: 5261: 5257: 5253: 5249: 5245: 5241: 5240:WP:SELFSOURCE 5237: 5233: 5229: 5225: 5221: 5217: 5216: 5215: 5212: 5206: 5205:Courteney Cox 5202: 5198: 5194: 5190: 5186: 5182: 5178: 5177: 5176: 5175: 5172: 5168: 5164: 5160: 5156: 5152: 5148: 5142: 5137: 5136: 5135: 5134: 5130: 5126: 5108: 5104: 5100: 5096: 5092: 5088: 5087: 5086: 5083: 5076: 5075: 5074: 5073: 5072: 5071: 5070: 5069: 5068: 5067: 5058: 5054: 5050: 5046: 5042: 5039: 5035: 5030: 5025: 5024: 5023: 5020: 5014: 5010: 5006: 5002: 5001: 5000: 4999: 4998: 4997: 4992: 4988: 4984: 4979: 4973: 4968: 4967: 4966: 4963: 4957: 4953: 4949: 4948: 4947: 4946: 4942: 4938: 4934: 4930: 4926: 4921: 4918: 4916: 4913: 4910: 4908: 4904: 4902: 4898: 4893: 4892: 4888: 4884: 4880: 4875: 4873: 4871: 4865: 4860: 4857: 4853: 4845: 4835: 4831: 4827: 4821: 4816: 4815: 4814: 4811: 4805: 4804: 4803: 4802: 4801: 4800: 4795: 4791: 4787: 4780: 4775: 4774: 4773: 4770: 4764: 4763: 4762: 4761: 4757: 4753: 4748: 4747: 4743: 4740: 4734: 4727: 4718: 4702: 4698: 4694: 4689: 4687: 4683: 4677: 4672: 4671: 4670: 4666: 4662: 4657: 4656: 4655: 4651: 4647: 4643: 4639: 4638: 4633: 4632: 4627: 4626:Romani people 4623: 4619: 4618: 4613: 4609: 4605: 4601: 4600: 4595: 4594: 4589: 4588: 4583: 4582: 4581: 4578: 4572: 4571: 4570: 4569: 4568: 4567: 4566: 4565: 4558: 4554: 4550: 4546: 4541: 4535: 4530: 4529: 4528: 4527: 4526: 4525: 4520: 4516: 4512: 4507: 4506: 4505: 4504: 4501: 4498: 4492: 4488: 4484: 4483: 4482: 4481: 4477: 4473: 4469: 4466: 4460: 4440: 4437: 4431: 4427: 4426: 4425: 4424: 4423: 4422: 4421: 4420: 4419: 4418: 4417: 4416: 4415: 4414: 4401: 4397: 4393: 4389: 4386: 4384: 4381: 4375: 4370: 4369: 4368: 4365: 4358: 4354: 4353: 4352: 4351: 4350: 4349: 4348: 4347: 4346: 4345: 4336: 4332: 4328: 4321: 4316: 4315: 4314: 4311: 4305: 4301: 4300: 4299: 4298: 4297: 4296: 4291: 4287: 4283: 4279: 4276: 4274: 4271: 4267: 4263: 4256: 4251: 4250: 4249: 4246: 4240: 4236: 4235: 4231: 4230: 4229: 4228: 4224: 4220: 4214: 4209: 4208: 4203: 4200: 4194: 4185: 4179: 4175: 4171: 4165: 4160: 4157: 4152: 4147: 4143: 4139: 4138:Ngô Đình Thục 4135: 4131: 4127: 4123: 4117: 4112: 4111: 4110: 4107: 4101: 4097: 4096: 4095: 4094: 4090: 4086: 4082: 4076: 4060: 4057: 4051: 4047: 4043: 4042: 4041: 4040: 4039: 4038: 4037: 4036: 4035: 4034: 4025: 4021: 4017: 4013: 4009: 4003: 3998: 3997: 3996: 3993: 3987: 3986: 3985: 3984: 3983: 3982: 3977: 3973: 3969: 3965: 3961: 3958:Do you think 3957: 3954: 3950: 3945: 3940: 3939: 3938: 3935: 3929: 3928: 3924: 3923: 3922: 3921: 3917: 3913: 3909: 3903: 3898: 3897: 3894: 3893:Ngô Đình Thục 3888: 3885: 3879: 3870: 3852: 3848: 3844: 3840: 3836: 3835: 3834: 3830: 3826: 3821: 3820: 3819: 3815: 3811: 3806: 3799: 3794: 3793: 3792: 3789: 3783: 3782: 3781: 3780: 3779: 3778: 3777: 3776: 3775: 3774: 3765: 3761: 3757: 3751: 3746: 3745: 3744: 3741: 3735: 3730: 3726: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3722: 3721: 3716: 3712: 3708: 3704: 3700: 3697: 3693: 3689: 3684: 3679: 3678: 3677: 3674: 3668: 3663: 3659: 3658: 3655: 3652: 3646: 3641: 3640: 3639: 3638: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3621: 3619: 3616: 3612: 3609: 3606: 3602: 3598: 3593: 3591: 3590:The Patriarch 3587: 3585: 3582: 3578: 3577:The Patriarch 3574: 3571: 3567: 3563: 3557: 3555: 3549: 3540: 3528: 3524: 3520: 3516: 3515: 3514: 3510: 3506: 3502: 3498: 3492: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3481: 3477: 3474: 3470: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3459: 3455: 3451: 3447: 3446:2004 AP story 3441: 3437: 3432: 3431: 3430: 3426: 3422: 3418: 3414: 3410: 3406: 3402: 3401: 3400: 3399: 3396: 3389: 3384: 3380: 3374: 3365: 3355: 3349: 3345: 3340: 3337: 3333: 3325: 3321: 3317: 3310: 3305: 3304: 3303: 3300: 3294: 3293: 3292: 3291: 3287: 3283: 3275: 3253: 3249: 3245: 3241: 3235: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3224: 3220: 3214: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3204: 3198: 3194: 3193: 3192: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3186: 3185: 3184: 3183: 3182: 3181: 3180: 3179: 3164: 3160: 3156: 3152: 3149: 3146: 3144: 3142: 3139: 3136: 3132: 3129: 3125: 3119: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3109: 3103: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3096: 3095: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3077: 3073: 3069: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3060: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3043: 3039: 3035: 3030: 3024: 3020: 3016: 3012: 3009: 3008: 3007: 3003: 2999: 2995: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2985: 2981: 2977: 2972: 2968: 2965: 2961: 2957: 2953: 2949: 2945: 2941: 2937: 2931: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2919: 2915: 2911: 2910:Ngô Đình Thục 2907: 2898: 2893: 2891: 2886: 2881: 2876: 2875: 2871: 2867: 2863: 2859: 2855: 2850: 2845: 2842: 2839: 2838: 2835: 2831: 2827: 2823: 2820: 2818: 2815: 2809: 2805: 2801: 2797: 2793: 2792: 2785: 2781: 2777: 2773: 2769: 2766: 2765: 2764: 2760: 2756: 2752: 2747: 2742: 2738: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2728: 2724: 2721: 2720: 2715: 2711: 2707: 2703: 2702: 2701: 2700: 2697: 2691: 2687: 2683: 2679: 2675: 2666: 2663: 2657: 2656: 2655: 2651: 2647: 2644: 2643: 2638: 2634: 2630: 2627: 2626: 2609: 2606: 2600: 2598: 2594: 2590: 2586: 2585: 2583: 2579: 2575: 2571: 2570: 2565: 2557: 2553: 2549: 2545: 2543: 2541: 2533: 2529: 2524: 2520: 2515: 2512: 2508: 2507: 2503: 2499: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2488: 2484: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2477: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2473: 2472: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2454: 2453: 2452: 2449: 2443: 2439: 2438: 2437: 2433: 2429: 2425: 2418: 2413: 2412: 2411: 2408: 2402: 2401: 2400: 2396: 2392: 2388: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2378: 2375: 2369: 2365: 2359: 2353: 2350: 2349: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2334: 2330: 2326: 2323: 2322: 2309: 2305: 2301: 2297: 2296: 2291: 2290: 2285: 2281: 2277: 2273: 2269: 2263: 2258: 2257: 2256: 2252: 2248: 2243: 2242: 2241: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2225: 2222: 2216: 2210: 2204: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2194: 2188: 2186: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2175: 2171: 2167: 2163: 2162: 2161: 2158: 2152: 2150: 2146: 2142: 2141: 2138: 2135: 2129: 2127: 2123: 2119: 2115: 2112: 2110: 2106: 2102: 2101:Peterkingiron 2098: 2095: 2094: 2087: 2083: 2079: 2076: 2075: 2070: 2064: 2059: 2058: 2057: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2047: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2026: 2020: 2016: 2012: 2009: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2003: 1999: 1995: 1992: 1991: 1986: 1982: 1979: 1977: 1973: 1969: 1966: 1965: 1960: 1957: 1956: 1943: 1939: 1935: 1931: 1927: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1918: 1914: 1910: 1906: 1902: 1898: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1889: 1885: 1881: 1876: 1873: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1865: 1861: 1857: 1853: 1849: 1845: 1840: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1829: 1825: 1821: 1817: 1814: 1813:Strong oppose 1811: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1793: 1790: 1788: 1785: 1779: 1776: 1775: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1753: 1752:Other persons 1744: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1733: 1729: 1725: 1721: 1720: 1719: 1718: 1715: 1711: 1707: 1703: 1699: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1689: 1685: 1681: 1676: 1671: 1666: 1664: 1660: 1654: 1652: 1651: 1650: 1641: 1637: 1636: 1633: 1627: 1625: 1624: 1623: 1614: 1607: 1606: 1598: 1596: 1591: 1586: 1581: 1580: 1575: 1573: 1572: 1568: 1564: 1560: 1556: 1549: 1546: 1543: 1540: 1537: 1536: 1534: 1527: 1521: 1518: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1509: 1500: 1499: 1489: 1487: 1486: 1482: 1478: 1473: 1468: 1464: 1460: 1456: 1450: 1430: 1427: 1420: 1416: 1415: 1410: 1406: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1376: 1372: 1368: 1364: 1360: 1359:WP:NOTABILITY 1356: 1351: 1347: 1341: 1336: 1335: 1334: 1333: 1332: 1331: 1330: 1329: 1328: 1327: 1326: 1325: 1314: 1311: 1305: 1301: 1297: 1293: 1289: 1285: 1281: 1280: 1279: 1278: 1277: 1276: 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1263: 1259: 1255: 1251: 1247: 1241: 1236: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1224: 1221: 1215: 1210: 1208: 1205: 1199: 1195: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1188: 1185: 1181: 1177: 1171: 1166: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1160: 1153: 1148: 1145: 1142:, there is a 1141: 1134: 1112: 1108: 1104: 1100: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1084: 1081: 1075: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1065: 1059: 1055: 1051: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1035: 1031: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1018: 1017: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 993: 989: 985: 981: 977: 975: 969: 966: 962: 958: 954: 948: 944: 939: 938: 937: 936: 935: 934: 933: 932: 931: 930: 929: 928: 927: 926: 925: 924: 909: 906: 900: 894: 888: 885: 884: 883: 882: 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