625:
film work after the war. Antonioni's early enrollment in
Fascist Youth is unsurprising given that it was obligatory for every Italian male of that generation including Fellini. One thing is certain: this has parallels with France and film directors working during the Nazi Occupation - some collaborated readily with the regime, others like Cocteau took the job to make a living but remained neutral or had ties to the Resistance. It's a slippery subject and requires a sensitive, thoughtful approach. While I can't imagine a youthful Antonioni praising Nazi propaganda, treating the subject will demand reflection and the careful gathering of sourced materials and discussion before any inclusion in the article can be made. That's only my opinion, of course. Historian Ben-Ghiat has documented this crucial aspect of Italian cinema and her arguments relating to Antonioni's early work under Fascism should be mentioned along with biographers and historians on the director's well-documented post-war anti-fascism.
229:
549:"Thatâs where NYU historian Ruth Ben-Ghiat comes in. Her new book, Italian Fascismâs Empire Cinema, examines nine films made about Italyâs African and Balkan occupations during Mussoliniâs dictatorship. Influenced by French and British colonial films of the time (as well as Hollywood Westerns!), the propaganda films, made between 1936 and 1943, celebrated the growth of Italyâs burgeoning colonial presence in exotic lands and advertised its modern military might to the world."
554:"The films featured the nationâs biggest stars alongside actual soldiers, who served as extras, and gave many whoâd become leading lights of postwar Italian cinemaâlike Federico Fellini and Michelangelo Antonioniâtheir start. But the works became obsolete after Italy lost its colonies, and because of their fascist roots they remain relatively unknown today, âa skeleton in the closet,â as one critic put it, of the Italian film industry."
286:
262:
401:
380:
220:
348:
411:
515:"âWe have no hesitation in saying that if this is propaganda, then we welcome propaganda.â That is how Michelangelo Antonioni, in his Venice Film Festival report, responded to Veit Harlanâs Jew Suss (Jud SĂźĂ, 1940), a film which went into production at the prompting of Joseph Goebbels, and has the reputation of being among the most antisemitic ever made." -
644:
sure how that jives with his enthusiastic support for Jud Sßà in his review of it. Was he actually supportive of anti-semitic views originally and then something later changed his mind? Or was it that, while he was opposed to the actions of the fascist regimes, he did still actually dislike the Jewish people or believed the stereotypes about them?
503:""Jud Suss," telling the story of the rise and fall of an 18th-century "court Jew" in provincial Germany, can now be viewed on several Internet sites, where it receives notices as rapturous as those at the Venice Film Festival in 1940, when the young critic Michelangelo Antonioni gushed: "It is a powerful, incisive, extremely effective film."" -
296:
624:
Fellini was never a willing
Fascist (numerous Italian cinema experts including Andrea Minuz, Peter Bondanella, Aldo Tassone, and Tullio Kezich confirm this as fact) and only went to Africa to make a living in a film industry sponsored by Mussolini's son. Fellini famously went on to skewer Fascists in
563:
And obviously that means that the book noted in that quote likely has a lot more information regarding
Michelangelo's early film work and how it was a part of fascist propaganda. Should something about this also be added to the article section in question? I'm honestly surprised that the article as a
670:
To your first point: Yes, I agree this would be the best approach. To your second point: I am not aware of any available biography on
Antonioni (MA) that confirms he embraced Fascism and/or anti-Semitism in his youth either as a film critic or as a fledgling film director and that, after the war, he
618:
A- Well, he was very young and this was one among several projects he was involved with at the start of his career. I imagine it was a big adventure to be going to Africa, and making a film sponsored by
Mussoliniâs son. It is hard to say if this means he was pro-Fascist, or just wanting to have this
643:
and the background of the propaganda films he made. Then use Ben-Ghiat's coverage of
Antonioni to explain his involvement in such material. Though one thing I am confused about is that, even if the films he made were just unwillingly so and they were just focused on regular people anyways, I'm not
544:
I thought it should also be noted that the way his beginning works in the Early film work section are portrayed is also questionable. It's written as if these are simply films about regular people with no other purpose behind them, then suddenly the section says the films were transferred to a
497:"Widely distributed in Nazi-occupied Europe, with special screenings for SS units, âJew SĂźssâ was shown at the 1940 Venice Film Festival, where it was praised for its formal qualities by Michelangelo Antonioni, then a young journalist" -
588:
Since you're the only editor to have made any significant contributions to this article that has edited at all in the past year, sad to say for the others, I thought I'd ping you to get your opinion and input on the above two sections.
522:
And there's way more than that out there. A bunch of historical books covering his review and comments as well. So, what would be the best way to incorporate something about this into the Early Life section of the article?
153:
690:
Then follow that up with material from Ben-Ghiat's coverage of
Antonioniâs film work during the war and how she considers MAâs stance on Fascism as ambiguous etc. Once again, these are only suggestions on my part.
545:
fascist region with no explanation. When the well known reason is that these films were examples of
Italian fascist propaganda and are extensively noted as such in historical retrospectives. Such as noted here:
754:
362:
749:
612:
Thanks for the kind words (I don't deserve them...) and pinging me about this important matter. In an interview, Ben-Ghiat states the following about
Fellini's early film work in Africa:
674:
The controversy could be outlined in the section âEarly lifeâ or a separate section by quoting from reliable sources online such as the informative BFI article by Brad
Stevens on
147:
734:
759:
671:
rejected those views. My point is simply to remind us that, as Wiki editors, it's imperative we maintain a neutral stance and avoid personal views, hunches or suspicions.
44:
516:
724:
357:
272:
79:
489:
I was surprised that his journalist work is so briefly mentioned in the Early Life section, when his positive statements about the Nazi propaganda film
739:
719:
774:
764:
729:
457:
314:
233:
467:
557:
190:
85:
779:
498:
318:
564:
whole seems to try and avoid discussing Michelangelo's long-standing involvement and support for the fascist regime in Italy at the time.
744:
322:
168:
313:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
135:
433:
769:
714:
684:
Antonioniâs favourable notice is usually regarded as at best a youthful indiscretion, at worst evidence of support for fascism.
309:
267:
99:
30:
104:
20:
74:
509:"Droolers included director Michelangelo Antonioni, then a young critic, who swooned over its "cinematic refinement"." -
242:
129:
424:
385:
65:
534:
185:
125:
510:
199:
175:
109:
504:
650:
595:
570:
529:
24:
248:
219:
141:
696:
161:
55:
432:
on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
204:
70:
639:
It seems like the best way would be to include the information about Antonioni's statements on
665:
645:
607:
590:
565:
524:
51:
301:
201:
692:
634:
583:
708:
675:
640:
490:
416:
700:
655:
600:
575:
203:
615:
Q- What should Fellini fans make of his early experiences working on these films?
285:
261:
406:
291:
400:
379:
347:
321:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
429:
517:
I abject: the not-so-simple propaganda of Veit Harlanâs Jew Suss
213:
205:
15:
493:
are so widely covered as a historical event. Some examples:
346:
499:âForbidden Filmsâ Exhumes Nazi Poison From the Movie Vaults
755:
Top-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
160:
428:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
750:B-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
484:
485:Michelangelo's Positive Statements on Jud SĂźĂ
174:
8:
511:Jud SĂźss: the Nazis' inglorious blockbuster
735:Knowledge level-4 vital articles in People
374:
256:
760:Actors and filmmakers work group articles
558:Italian Cinema's Skeleton in the Closet
376:
258:
217:
619:experience with a large-budget movie.
7:
422:This article is within the scope of
307:This article is within the scope of
247:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
725:Knowledge vital articles in People
14:
358:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers
740:B-Class vital articles in People
720:Knowledge level-4 vital articles
409:
399:
378:
294:
284:
260:
227:
218:
45:Click here to start a new topic.
462:This article has been rated as
331:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
775:High-importance Italy articles
765:WikiProject Biography articles
730:B-Class level-4 vital articles
334:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
436:and see a list of open tasks.
355:This article is supported by
42:Put new text under old text.
701:13:23, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
656:21:53, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
601:17:34, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
576:17:27, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
535:17:27, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
319:contribute to the discussion
780:All WikiProject Italy pages
442:Knowledge:WikiProject Italy
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
796:
745:B-Class biography articles
468:project's importance scale
445:Template:WikiProject Italy
505:Bigotry at the Box Office
461:
394:
354:
279:
255:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
770:B-Class Italy articles
715:B-Class vital articles
351:
75:avoid personal attacks
25:Michelangelo Antonioni
350:
310:WikiProject Biography
273:Actors and Filmmakers
234:level-4 vital article
100:Neutral point of view
105:No original research
540:On his early films
352:
337:biography articles
243:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
482:
481:
478:
477:
474:
473:
425:WikiProject Italy
373:
372:
369:
368:
212:
211:
66:Assume good faith
43:
787:
669:
653:
648:
638:
611:
598:
593:
587:
573:
568:
532:
527:
450:
449:
446:
443:
440:
419:
414:
413:
412:
403:
396:
395:
390:
382:
375:
339:
338:
335:
332:
329:
315:join the project
304:
302:Biography portal
299:
298:
297:
288:
281:
280:
275:
264:
257:
240:
231:
230:
223:
222:
214:
206:
179:
178:
164:
95:Article policies
16:
795:
794:
790:
789:
788:
786:
785:
784:
705:
704:
663:
651:
646:
632:
605:
596:
591:
581:
571:
566:
542:
530:
525:
487:
464:High-importance
447:
444:
441:
438:
437:
415:
410:
408:
389:Highâimportance
388:
336:
333:
330:
327:
326:
300:
295:
293:
270:
241:on Knowledge's
238:
228:
208:
207:
202:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
793:
791:
783:
782:
777:
772:
767:
762:
757:
752:
747:
742:
737:
732:
727:
722:
717:
707:
706:
688:
687:
686:
685:
661:
660:
659:
658:
627:
626:
622:
621:
620:
616:
613:
561:
560:
555:
551:
550:
541:
538:
520:
519:
513:
507:
501:
486:
483:
480:
479:
476:
475:
472:
471:
460:
454:
453:
451:
448:Italy articles
434:the discussion
421:
420:
404:
392:
391:
383:
371:
370:
367:
366:
363:Top-importance
353:
343:
342:
340:
306:
305:
289:
277:
276:
265:
253:
252:
246:
224:
210:
209:
200:
198:
197:
194:
193:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
792:
781:
778:
776:
773:
771:
768:
766:
763:
761:
758:
756:
753:
751:
748:
746:
743:
741:
738:
736:
733:
731:
728:
726:
723:
721:
718:
716:
713:
712:
710:
703:
702:
698:
694:
683:
682:
681:
680:
679:
677:
672:
667:
657:
654:
649:
642:
636:
631:
630:
629:
628:
623:
617:
614:
609:
604:
603:
602:
599:
594:
585:
580:
579:
578:
577:
574:
569:
559:
556:
553:
552:
548:
547:
546:
539:
537:
536:
533:
528:
518:
514:
512:
508:
506:
502:
500:
496:
495:
494:
492:
469:
465:
459:
456:
455:
452:
435:
431:
427:
426:
418:
407:
405:
402:
398:
397:
393:
387:
384:
381:
377:
364:
361:(assessed as
360:
359:
349:
345:
344:
341:
324:
323:documentation
320:
316:
312:
311:
303:
292:
290:
287:
283:
282:
278:
274:
269:
266:
263:
259:
254:
250:
244:
236:
235:
225:
221:
216:
215:
196:
195:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
689:
673:
666:Silver seren
662:
608:Silver seren
562:
543:
521:
488:
463:
423:
417:Italy portal
356:
308:
249:WikiProjects
232:
184:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
148:free images
31:not a forum
709:Categories
693:Jumbolino
635:Jumbolino
584:Jumbolino
328:Biography
268:Biography
237:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
676:Jud SĂźĂ
641:Jud SĂźĂ
491:Jud SĂźĂ
466:on the
239:B-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
647:Silver
592:Silver
567:Silver
526:Silver
245:scale.
126:Google
652:seren
597:seren
572:seren
531:seren
439:Italy
430:Italy
386:Italy
226:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
697:talk
458:High
317:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
176:TWL
711::
699:)
678::
365:).
271::
156:)
54:;
695:(
668::
664:@
637::
633:@
610::
606:@
586::
582:@
470:.
325:.
251::
191:1
188::
172:¡
166:¡
158:¡
151:¡
145:¡
139:¡
133:¡
128:(
58:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
