Talk:Middle East Eye

3079:

accusations against MEE within the article". It seems possible to me that some parts of the edit may be valuable and other parts not wanted. Little or no explanation was given for the revert. I suggest breaking this edit down into smaller parts and examining each part for its merit. It seems to me that generally adding content with relevant refs should probably be OK unless anyone expresses an objection with an actual explanation of why they don't think it should be in the article. I'm confused as to whether any content was deleted. As to one specific tiny bit: I think in this case the original "had withdrawn" is better than "withdrew" because the event occurred before the other event that was being discussed; if it only says "withdrew" the reader has to go to the trouble of comparing dates or get a wrong impression of the order things happened.

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of it into the article. However, I now notice that the edit adds a citation tag with a date in the past (January 2022 I think), giving me the impression that some or all of the edit was a revert. Please, everyone, if you revert, (re-adding or re-removing stuff that's previously been removed or added) put something in the edit summary to indicate that. I got the wrong impression from the edit summary. Sabotage1, would you please describe your edit: that is, explain what parts are reverts and what parts are new work that you did when doing that edit. I might or might not participate further here. Everyone, please avoid editwarring; please discuss with other editors and come to consensus rather than just reverting.

2779:

btw? "consensus = Nableezy has veto powers over any article remotely related to his personal political crusade"?) from you - you've spent so long trying to keep out such Reliable Sources from the article, you'd be humiliated if you backed down now. I'm merely demonstrating for the disinterested editor and the lay reader the preposterous lengths to which some "special interest" editors will will go to prevent inclusion of content they don't like (not to mention the childish refusal to admit error). Al Jazeera, in its own editorial, lists MEE as funded "directly or indirectly", by Qatar. It is not quoting anyone. You seriously underestimate the ability of the average editor - and reader - to

2390:

before Qatar was formally outed for maintaining commercial ties with its Persian neighbor. Even more confusing in this piece supposedly about Yemen is the overt criticism of the “Little Sparta” UAE for its own “imperialistic” ambitions unnecessarily complicating Arabia’s politics. When the authors stick to the actual theme of the article, the suggestion is that Riyadh currently attempts to separate Saleh from the much more threatening “Huthi” rival, a clear indication that this war will not be so easy to end for the KSA and the larger GCC community. David Hearst and Clayton Swisher, “Saudi Crown Prince Wants Out of Yemen War, Leaked Emails Reveal,” Middle East Eye, August 14, 2017.

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explain why all the other parts of the edit were reverted. I agree that Shireen Abu Akleh seems to have been connected with Al Jazeera not Middle East Eye and does not belong in this article. However, I encourage all editors to come to consensus about other parts of the edit. For example, I don't understand why Sabotage1 put the "withdrew" wording back in after I'd already said here on the talk page that I support the original wording "had withdrawn". And I don't understand why Onel5969 and Mikecaymantrades reverted the whole, complex edit without finding any small part to keep. Please try to work towards consensus rather than reverting in and out again a whole complex edit.

2813:(what was that you were saying about there being no "smoking gun"? So why are you attempting to keep this hidden from the article? Buried in a single line, tagged on the end of a different paragraph, without attribution/s? Why don't you want to mention the academic and journalistic RSs (WSJ, Cambridge University Press, University of California Press, Transparency International, Spyer, European Scientific Journal (ESJ), Russia's National Research University Higher School of Economics, Oxford Analytica) in the article? Why are you trying to deprive the reader of this extra context, breadth and detail? 3265:

Middle East Eye is not acceptable at all I dont understand why you are so keen on spreading misinformation seems like Henry Jackson society's criticism has got you triggered but moving on use a reliable reference not Saudi owned mouth piece websites such as Arab News to critique another media outlet they are opposing each other naturally due to geopolitics of the region and to add to this the Atlantic is an opinion piece again Al Jazeera has its own page if you want to bash them use the main page for that dont add sneaky biased views from clearly unreliable references here to vent thanks.

397: 370: 516: 2684:: "The Brotherhood divided", by Senior Fellow Samuel Tadros (August 20, 2015) "Therefore, the Brotherhood focused on building an English language media arm, one that would not appear to be controlled by it directly. The task was carried by the London office. In July 2009, Brotherhood affiliates established Middle East Monitor to focus mainly on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Following the coup, the website shifted to focusing on Egypt, thereby providing Western readers the Brotherhood’s point of view. 1461:

independent of any government or movement and is not funded by Qatar. Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar." - This clearly frames the "accusations" as a part of geopolitical mud-slinging. Then the line tagged on the end, sourced to one publication (that I provided): "Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar" does not apportion appropriate weight to the widespread understanding that it was founded, is funded, and that it's very

613: 592: 506: 296: 485: 623: 931: 457: 1664:"This document should not be considered as representative of the Commission or Transparency International’s official position. Neither the European Commission, Transparency International nor any person acting on behalf of the Commission is responsible for the use which might be made of the following information. This Anti-Corruption Helpdesk is operated by Transparency International and funded by the European Union." 790: 286: 697: 265: 203: 234: 1550:- Excuse me? What Wiki Policy is that based on? What does the Israeli press have to do with this issue? You're suggesting there's a Conflict of Interest there? OK, well, then, surely any Gulf, US, Arab, Muslim, Middle Eastern.... that would preclude pretty much every "press" that has anything to do with the region, from being a reliable source on this issue, right? 991: 2413:. Again, a UAE state owned agency making claims is the UAE making such claims. And note the National doesnt even say that in that article. Again, a book about the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood is a reliable source for a lot of things, but finding a throwaway line on a topic that is not related to what it is actually covering would be a misuse of that source. 2488:

forward the position of the UAE and Saudi as though it were fact, but they are disputed viewpoints. The article says described as being backed by Qatar, because that is not a disputed viewpoint. The view that it is funded by or founded by Qatar however is. Youre not going to be able to make our encyclopedia article accept as fact a disputed accusation.

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same exact order as the demand list, but you are going to say this is not being presented as one of the demands of the Saudi bloc. You are attempting to distort the sources to say what they say Saudi says as an accusation is a fact. And you are doing it while accusing others of misrepresenting the sources. That is not going to fly, sorry.

2603:"Al Jazeera has repeatedly broken stories on the Turkish investigation into the Saudi dissident’s whereabouts. The Qatari network, like Western media, has cited anonymous Turkish sources and was the first to give graphic details on what happened in the consulate, including how Mr. Khashoggi was beaten, drugged and murdered. 2250:, is government owned by a government who has made these claims about Qatar. We already say these governments say this. Using state owned entities to say it as though it is not the state saying it is kind of funny. There is no sourcing for anything to be widely believed outside of Qatar's geopolitical rivals. 3187:

Oops. I feel that my time has been wasted here, and I'm sorry if I wasted other peoples' time. I had been under the impression that the edit at the top of this section was new work that Sabotage1 had done, and I wanted to encourage Sabotage1 and conserve useful material by trying to get at least some

1690:

I absolutely do NOT want to credit the ToI "over" Berman (I introduced Berman as a source for this article, remember?). He writes carefully, as he should, as should we, I just want the "Wiki Voice" to accurately reflect the overwhelming consensus on this issue. If there were RSs that denied it - that

3213:

I have rephrased the section on the claims made by Saudi State owned Newspaper Arab News and it was one commentator not the entire Arab world as you claimed and Saudis most definitely are not representative of the Arab world it is closely tied to the Saudi state yet you made a blanket statement that

2778:

Amazing how you come up with different - and self-contradictory - excuses for every new source presented to you isn't it? And conveniently fail to mention those sources for which none of your laundry list of excuses apply? Obviously I'm not looking for "consensus" (what do you interpret that to mean

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In Middle East Eye, a Qatari-funded online “news” outlet, reports of leaked emails suggest the KSA is desperate for a way out of its war on Yemen. The article itself functions to exonerate Qatar by highlighting that the KSA “allowed” Trump’s diplomatic team to start secret meetings with Iran a month

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Enough of the sophistry. Let's just make the lede reflective of what the sources say, yeah? I don't know why you and nableezy continue to insist on making this so difficult... We're not running a court of law here, we are simply required to make the words we write reflective of what the best sources

2128:"Jonathan Powell said: “I left Al Jazeera last year to pursue a new opportunity but later returned after being offered a new role. I have a lot of experience in launching media organisations and was brought on as a consultant by Middle East Eye. This was entirely separate to my work with Al Jazeera." 1794:

This is vearing into the realm of sophistry now I fear. Of course it's relevant, and supports my contention, but the credibility of the contention is undermined by its association with political games. Which is irrelevant to the main point: it's clearly UNDUE the way it is currently presented in the

1751:

I'm not asking you to, I wouldn't want you to. I'm merely asking, and I'll say it again, for the text to reflect the industry and scholarly consensus on this issue. You seem to be doing your damndest to keep as much of that consensus, and as many as those sources, out of the article. I cannot fathom

1511:

Your sources don't support that statement at all. I repeat that Bak's views are not endorsed by Transparency International. Nor is the Israeli press, because of the Abraham Accords/Hamas matters, the best sourcing for this issue. Your best source is Berman ie "purported to fund" (which he repeats in

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You started with the ad hominems and conspiracy theorizing. And continue with the strawmen, because no, you haven't "understood me righ ". Multiple RS state that MEE is funded/founded/backed/supported/affiliated, whatever, for the 6th time, I'm not particularly hung up on the specific working, all I

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You (and Nableezy) seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that your personal political opinions are relevant to evaluating the reliability of a source. Needless to say, you (nor Nableezy) are reliable sources on anything. It's very telling - for the whole world to see - that you presume to be

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Just had to chance to review another addition of yours and yet again you utilize a terrible reference "Arab news" and middle east forum as some sort of reliable reference which is clearly is not reliable it is a rival state owned propaganda channel owned by the House of Saud using them to criticise

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In october 2022, it became known that their collaborator, the Palestinian journalist Shatha Hammad, was an Hitler-fan and wrote years ago antisemitic and genocidal posts against the Jews. She received the Thomson Reuters Foundation and the Kurt Schork Memorial Fund award in 2022 but Thomson Reuters

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which also quotes the demand list. Which, again, says "11) Shut down all news outlets funded directly and indirectly by Qatar, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al Araby Al Jadeed, Mekameleen and Middle East Eye, etc." So the AJ story says this is part of their demand, and even puts the news outlets in the

2812:

You know exactly what I object to, as I've stated it five, or six times. MEE is widely regarded by virtually anyone who's bothered to write about it as being supported and/or funded by Qatar. There's literally no RS that disagrees. Even Al Jazeera itself lists MEE as one of its Qatar-funded outlets

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and that is it. Even that is fairly weak, but it only supports that there are such allegations. Not that it is widely believed to be true, or that it actually is true. You are asking us to take as fact what several sources describe as allegations, largely on the basis of throwaway lines not focused

2370:

MEE denial is already present so you want to replace "Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar." with "Middle East Eye is widely believed to have been founded and funded by Qatar". Personally I would agree to "Middle East Eye is believed by some to have been founded and/or funded

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Why are you asking me to repeat myself? I made it quite clear, several times, what I objected to. Remove the 2017 GCC diplomatic spat to the body. Replace "Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar" with "Middle East Eye is widely believed to have been founded and funded by Qatar,

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You just need to attribute, so Bak is as reliable as you can make him out to be given that he is in effect a self published source. I repeat your best source (by far) is Berman and he says purportedly so I don't really care what "ToI staff" have to say about it and nor should you, come to that. You

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because it's common knowledge, no grand expose or stellar work of investigative journalism is needed, it's all open source, we know exactly who started it (Al Jazeera employees) and since the token "editor" won't be transparent about his funding, everyone assumes quite correctly that the funding is

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With an MA from SOAS and a PhD from LSE, he has been published in The Wall Street Journal, Ha'aretz, The Guardian, The Times, The Weekly Standard, Foreign Policy, and has published books based on his reporting in Bloomsbury (2010), Simon & Schuster (2014), and Routledge (2017) - books that have

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Also how can one ignore the huge irony of using Saudi state owned newspapers as a source to criticize another media outlet allegedly funded by Qatar since we know how amazing Kashoggi was treated by them not to mention the tit for tat media propaganda these two countries regularly wage against one

3166:

OK, now another editor has reverted, this time with edit summary "Rv edit-warring, not an improvement, lack of consensus. She worked for Al Jazeera, nothing to do with MEE." This edit summary seems to me to explain why the material about Shireen Abu Akleh was reverted; however, it does not seem to

3096:

Re infobox: I suggest adding the language parameter but not deleting headquarters, but in the headquarters parameter just giving the address and London with London linked appropriately, but leaving out england etc. because that info can be found by following the link from london. I think the above

2300:

Consensus, from who? You and nableezy? Fine, how about merely, and this is the last time I'm gonna say this, because, really, life's too short... how about re-writing the lede to be more reflective of the scholarly and industry consensus on this particular issue? How about actually using - quoting

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And this monograph: (Коротаев, А. В., Исаев, Л. М., & Мардасов, А. Г. (2019). Протесты 2019 г. в Египте. Предварительный анализ. Системный мониторинг глобальных и региональных рисков) which, looking at the situation in Egypt, identifies the "Turkish-Qatari" anti-Muslim Brotherhood alliance as

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And is the publisher of at least 330 articles, in Newsweek, CNN, Forbes, Fox News, MSN, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, U.S. News & World Report, POLITICO, The Hill, Yahoo, Jerusalem Post, National Review, Orlando Sentinel, The Moscow Times, RealClear Politics, Washington Examiner, Foreign

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Not sure what your point here is, this has been answered over and over. WSJ says linked to Qatar, does not say funded. Our article says described as backed by Qatar. You want to use the word linked instead of backed? The al-Jazeera source relays that as part of Saudi's demands, it is Saudi saying

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2) By hiding MEE's Qatar origins in the pitiful sentence tacked on the end ("Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar") without mentioning who (and you dare bring up attribution?!) that one source is attributed to, and denying 4 more reliable sources on the topic, you've done a

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is to serve Qatar's foreign policy interests. A much more accurate phrasing, and one that better reflects the sources, would be "Middle East Eye is widely believed to have been founded and funded by Qatar, although the MEE denies this." The Gulf diplomatic crisis need not even be mentioned in the

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As it stands, it clearly doesn't, does it? It only mentions by name the criticisms as coming from the dated GCC spat. And the pathetic single sentence tacted on the end, citing a single RS, doesn't even attribute where the "description" comes from? Any neutral observer would see right through all

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You are distorting what Ive said about those sources. Those sources are reliable sources, obviously, but they are not focused on MEE, they contain a throwaway line about MEE and cite a source that does not support that conclusion. If a source actually focused on Qatar and media or MEE said these

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which has been reverted is rather complex. Its edit summary is "Edited infobox, added more content to introduction, enlarged section on history and organisation, enlarged 'content' section by adding relevant information on death of Shireen Abu Akleh, added awards section. Kept all criticism and

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Consensus means balance of editors agreeing on policy, I don't really see where you are going with this either. The position hasn't changed, "Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar." is in the article without attribution. What specifically is your objection to that? Suggest

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and discuss the content then we can take that problem elsewhere. You can address my argument without saying anything about me. I have not returned the favor of providing any feedback as far as how I see you because this is not the appropriate place for that. Kindly stop. You keep trying to push

3105:

and didn't see advice but it seems to give examples that do and do not have empty parameters listed. Leaving empty parameters there allows them to be easily used in future. Deleting gets them out of the way if they're unlikely ever to be used on this page. I have no opinion at this time on the

1615:

I didn't say it wasn't usable at all, I said it was not the best sourcing and it isn't, for the reasons I gave. The ToI Staff have obviously just copied that from somewhere, "based in London and funded by Qatar" is all it has to say on the matter while Berman, a clearly much better source says

3320:

Surprised how an experienced editor Kautilya is being so disingenuous and dishonest about their edits which clearly are riddled with one sided pov and reactionary editing you have used opinion pieces several times now and is quite clear you have come here to push your pov and its been caught

1697:- 4 say either founded or funded, 1 says "widely considered to have close ties to the Emirate of Qatar". I'm not to hung up on the specific wording, only that it is given appropriate weight - and not lumped in, or, more like, tagged on the end of - the Gulf Diplomatic Crisis, as it is now. 1460:

The articles reads: "The governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain accuse MEE of pro-Muslim Brotherhood bias and receiving Qatari funding. As a consequence, they demanded MEE to be shut down following the Saudi-led blockade of Qatar. MEE’s response to the accusation is that it is

1066:

We have been down this road before and I believe the same pattern is beginning again. Please do not revert edits without coming to the Talk page to explain. I am undoing the revert on the basis that it is unexplained and if it continues I will have to ask for page protection yet again.

1437:. Cited to Berman. So no, not a source that is missing, and no, not information that is missing either. You seem to be under the impression that when sources are in disagreement on something that Knowledge should advance the position that you yourself hold. The article says 718: 2616:” said Iyad el-Baghdadi, a human-rights activist who found fame during the Arab Spring and was later expelled from the U.A.E. for criticizing Arab dictators. He is now the founder of Kawaakibi Center, a Norway-based think tank focused on democracy in the Arab world." - 1358:

RS states that MEE is funded by Qatar (without giving any proof), while MEE explicitly states that they are not. So we have two opposing opinions/views. You want (if I have understood you righ) to state that one of those views are true; that just woun't happen.

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able to discount the most emeniment of reliable sources - from academic publishers such as Oxford, Cambridge, University of California, respected peer-reviewed academic journals - out-of-hand, simply because they don't align with your own personal (and preferably

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Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not

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The ToI Staff have obviously just copied that from somewhere, "based in London and funded by Qatar" is all it has to say on the matter while Berman, a clearly much better source says purportedly funded and you want to credit the ToI over Berman, no

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Let's face it, you can't get much more RS than Victor J. Willi (formerly of Oxford, formerly of WEF Genève, and now Co-founder and Director of Research at the Middle East Institute Switzerland (MEIS)), publishing in Cambridge University Press; or

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been praised by such disparate figures as Martin Peretz, former Editor in Chief of The New Republic, Bill Roggio of the Long War Journal, neocon hawk Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum, and progressive liberal Daniel J. Levy of Conatus News.

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No, that's your interpretation of what it says. Maybe it's true, but you'd have to find a source to support your own personal interpretation. That's not what the source says, Al Jazeera doesn't present it as a quote, nor does it contest its

1343:

I am really tired of your personalising every issue; please stop attacking editors, and answer the issues instead. The issue here is that those academic/publishers have been totally wrong before, would you like to acknowledge that? Thanks,

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What Nableezy said: apparently you want us to parrot Saudi accusations as if they were "The Truth". Woun't happen. In addition: it would be nice if you could wikilink the sources you mention, so we know who we are dealing with. Say,

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I don't see how you can say the GCC Qatar business is not relevant, a bunch of countries asserted that MEE was a Qatari front (in effect) and demanded it (and others) be closed down. How is that not relevant? It also supports your

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expressed in what the authors call the "anti-Sisi" media of, citing from Qatar "primarily the Middle East Eye and Al Jazeera" and from Turkey, it's Arabic-language "Mekamleen TV" (based in Istanbul, but owned by Qatar's

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MEE’s website says it is operated by “M.E.E. Ltd.,” and British corporate filings show that Jamal Awn Jamal Bessasso is the only person with significant control in both Middle East Eye and M.E.E. Ltd. According to

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thankfully by other users. Tags are the first step if we cannot find better reliable sources the content must be deleted and Kautilya should maybe look at Knowledge policy on neutrality etc again before editing.

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with over 20 years of employment and research in the relevant fields, not to mention his innumerable publications, this particular one I'm quoting from being put out by the University of California Press....

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deletion of unused parameters but suggest waiting for consensus on the talk page (or for no objection on the talk page for a reasonable period of time) before re-instating the deletion of empty parameters.

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Overall, we rate the Times of Israel Left-Center biased based on editorial positions that slightly favor the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check

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It seems to me that we have reflected sources correctly in the lead so there isn't a weight issue. Unless you can show that most people believe is true and given Berman I don't see how that can be said.

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According to our lead, you have several countries alleging and Berman/ purportedly and backed by, I still don't see why you think it needs anything more than that, there is no smoking gun afaics.

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Lots of "links" but somewhat short on hard evidence, it's like saying I was near to something that happened so I must have been involved. Perhaps that's why Berman is cautious in what he says.

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according to you, but expert academics, veteran on-the-ground reporters, and academics' books published by academic presses (Cambridge, University of California, etc) aren't RS for comments

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In one, it reported that seven of Prince Mohammed’s bodyguards were among the suspects Turkey had identified and suggested their presence linked Saudi Arabia’s crown prince to the crime.

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The best source here is the one that is actually focused on the accusations, The Gulf Crisis: Small States Battle it Out, but even that largely sidesteps the issue. But what it says is

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would be a different story. But of course there aren't, there can't be. So we may as well reflect what those sources who have bothered to even mention this obvious point, actually say.

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claims that Qatar funds MEE, and it also includes that it is more widely believed to support MEE. But hey, at least this time you didnt make me remove a personal attack, so progress?

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doesnt have any expertise in Qatari media. Your Hellyer piece does not once use the phrase Middle East Eye. Times of Israel blogs are open to anyone, and Julie Lenarz seems to have

2468:, that in some cases they have been researching and publishing on and been quoted and cited, for decades now. I see where you're coming from, thanks for making it so crystal clear. 1503:

You have one/two sources saying founded and the article says backed by Qatar. You are trying to say in Wikivoice that it is founded and funded by Qatar, that's not going to happen.

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After more than two weeks, the four Arab countries reportedly issued a 13-point demand list on Friday in exchange for the end of the anti-Qatar measures and gave a 10-day deadline.

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sources are allowed on Knowledge. You have no right to come stomping and start deleting the content. If you think this is not accurate, find sources that give contrary views. The

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leveraging its large wealth into financial investments, and media enterprises—significantly, the Al Jazeera network, but also newer entities like The New Arab (al-Araby al-Jadid)

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immediately withdrew the award . Also Middle East Eye stopped collaboration with her but did hide the statement in French and didn't publish an English version of this text.

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Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.

3149:

Never mind. Based on the page history, I get the impression that user Onel5969 now accepts the edit. I've changed "withdrew" back to "had withdrawn" as I had suggested above.

1882:"...an English-language website focused on the Middle East and with links to the UAE government was established in London in April 2018 -- aiming to counter the influence of 2892:

The demands included the closure of all news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al Araby Al Jadeed, Mekameleen and Middle East Eye.

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they want Qatar to close others funded by the oil- and gas-rich Gulf State, either directly or indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye

2701:: "How Will the Rift with Qatar Play Out?", by H.A. Hellyer (June 5, 2017) "But Doha is different. Qatar is a small state that has been able to punch above its weight by 1938:, quoted Turkish intelligence officials as charging that Mohammed Dahlan, an Abu Dhabi-based former Palestinian security chief with close ties to the UAE’s Bin Zayed..." 147: 2993: 3131:

is a disambiguation link. You can change it to, for example, "Palestine (region)|Palestine". I'm not sure whether there are any other disambiguation links in the edit.

2754:

that these news organizations are funded by Qatar and demanding they be shut. Al-Jazeera is not saying MEE is funded by Qatar. Your MEMO piece is an opinion piece, and

2725:(blog): "Middle East Eye: Qatar’s loyal propaganda machine" by Julie Lenarz, Director of the London's Human Security Centre think-tank (AUG 29, 2019) "To its audience, 1766:

You brought Berman, Berman was added, "backed" is actually stronger than "purportedly", I am thinking we might change that and quote Berman for what he actually said.

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That's one interpretation and may even be true but it doesn't say that and how is demanding the shutdown of MEE and other media (the 13 demands) not political?

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in different countries, including the hosting of non-Qatari MB figures on its soil, and friendlier interactions with Iran as compared to Saudi and the UAE." -

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said that Al Jazeera Media Network is an “internal affair” and there will be no discussion about the fate of the Doha-based broadcaster during the Gulf crisis.

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things sure, but that is not what you have offered. You can keep ignoring what I am saying, but that doesnt mean I am wrong. Finally, if you are unable to

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You do realize that not having attributions is stronger than having them, right? It's almost in Wikivoice as an undisputed fact, which it isn't not quite.

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It seems like the motivation here is to deflect that it is Saudi and the other GCC states making these claims about MEE. For reasons that remain unclear.

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https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=+%22middle+east+eye%22+oxford+analytica&btnG=&oq=+%22middle+east+eye%22+oxford+ana

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Current article reads: "The governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain accuse MEE of pro-Muslim Brotherhood bias and receiving Qatari funding."

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It seems like the motivation here is to deflect that it is Saudi and the other GCC states making these claims about MEE. For reasons that remain unclear.

1660:- I don't make a habit of reading legalese, no. It literally says, at the bottom in grey lettering on every single report in the "Knowledge Hub" on TI: 79: 2889:

Associated Press and Reuters news agencies reported they obtained the list from unnamed officials from one of the countries involved in isolating Qatar.

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Any impartial observer could see that instantly. End of. "the position of the UAE and Saudi"? Oh my. There you go again. Nothing more needs to be said.

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No, Al-Jazeera does not say that, it gives that as a Saudi/GCC demand. The same line appears in countless sources discussing the list of demands.

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headed by former Guardian journalist David Hearst, and the bilingual website 'New Arab (or 'Al-Araby Al-Jadeed') in 2014." - Willi, V. J. (2021).

44: 2708:...Here is the rub of the issue. Since 2012, Riyadh and Abu Dhabi, the larger powers in the GCC, have felt Doha was something of a loose cannon, 1433:

You understand what the word purported means right? We already say it is described as being backed by Qatar. Where it says, in the lead no less,

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by Qatar (refs) while others consider such assertions as allegations (refs)" Please write up the appropriate refs to go with that if you agree.

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we have at hand, say. And if they are in complete consensus - as they essentially are on this issue - then it should be all the more easy. -

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Al-Jazeera is not the only outlet affiliated with Qatar, though its popularity and scope far exceed the rest. Qatar is purported to fund

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employee served as a launch consultant for MEE briefly before returning to work on special projects for A-Jazeera’s chairman’s office.

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widespread understanding that it was founded, is funded, and that it's very raison d'etre is to serve Qatar's foreign policy interests.

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Shut down news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye.

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The ONUS is on you to suggest material and demonstrate that your suggestion actually meets this test. So far you have not done so.

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If we were to interpret that legal disclaimer as you wish to ("Bak's views are not endorsed by Transparency International") then

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fantastic job of burying the issue as skilfully as you can. I mean, it shouldn't even be in the same paragraph as the GCC stuff.

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to be treated as a reliable source. Just copy pasting the same thing over and over isnt going to establish a consensus, sorry.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20190829184744/https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/middle-east-eye-qatars-loyal-propaganda-machine/

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Middle East Eye, another online news organization linked to Qatar, has published a number of exclusive reports on the case.

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Again, you can ignore what Ive said, I dont really care anymore/ The article does accurately reflect the reliable sources.

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I'm sure life-long academics Victor Willi and Isa Blumi will be surprised to hear that are "Qatar's geopolitical rivals"..

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No, I'm not. I'm trying to get "Wikivoice" to accurately reflect the sources, hence my "widely believed" suggested wording.

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This "herded jackal's" 2-cents: If Qatar is paying anything to MME; then they are not getting any value for their money,

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a number of English-speaking news outlets such as the 'Middle East Monitor' in 2009, Al Jazeera's US franchise in 2013,

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Arab News is an opinion piece, meforum/MEQ is a crap source, Atlantic is OK, this looks a lot like POV pushing to me.

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https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170624-qatar-is-giving-saudi-and-the-uae-a-masterclass-in-international-diplomacy/

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while Berman, a clearly much better source says purportedly funded and you want to credit the ToI over Berman, no way.

1175:"Mohammad Dahlan, former commander of Fatah’s Preventive Security Service in the Gaza Strip.... sued the London-based 1131: 974: 65: 2671:: "The alliance between Qatar, the host and backer of Al Jazeera, with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood is no secret..." - 2504:

More sophistry. I've said I think five times now I'm not too bothered about the funded/supported/backed terminology,

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That is pure fabrication. What the al-Jazeera article says, without the bs framing by your good self, is as follows:

1544:- that's why I wouldn't suggest putting in that statement, even though it's true, it's not supported by the sources. 1195:

Then there's Taha Naier, writing in the peer-reviewed academic journal European Scientific Journal (ESJ), who says:

914:

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

2546:! lol! You've all seen to that! How can you bald-faced lie like that? This just keeps getting better and better! - 1669: 1213: 1011: 902: 839: 202: 185: 2386:

Re Blumi, this is a. in his notes, b, a throwaway line not focused on MEE. This is the entirety of what he writes:

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My personal preference would be, in order: Berman, Willi, Blumi, Oxford Analytica, Spyer, Naier. Six should do.

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Ugh, if this "herded jackal" (who incidentally has edited this article since 2019) can have their say: To me,

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founding the Middle East Eye site were examples of Qatar seeking to expand its influence through a media lobby

2629:: "Al Jazeera: Call for closure siege against journalism" (23 Jun 2017) "The demands included the closure of 885:

Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

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It is an op-ed by a media analyst, and there is no information about him being affiliated to the state. --

1613:"Nor is the Israeli press, because of the Abraham Accords/Hamas matters, the best sourcing for this issue." 1297: 1198:"Significant financial incentives were provided. Qatar is investing in part of the Guardian newspaper and 1074: 894: 831: 2835:

Those are Saudi allegations, not facts. You can keep blustering about this, but yes we know how to read.

2654:(June 24, 2017) "Al-Jazeera is not the only media outlet targeted by these three countries (plus Egypt); 1749:

You say "everyone assumes", well, I don't and neither does Berman. We don't write up assumptions as fact.

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Nor is the Israeli press, because of the Abraham Accords/Hamas matters, the best sourcing for this issue.

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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20190809084102/https://www.hudson.org/research/11530-the-brotherhood-divided

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In addition to Al Jazeera, Qatar also funds news networks across the region such as the Middle East Eye

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You are trying to say in Wikivoice that it is founded and funded by Qatar, that's not going to happen.

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say "everyone assumes", well, I don't and neither does Berman. We don't write up assumptions as fact.

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https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/behind-the-lines-islamist-archipelago-the-turkey-qatar-nexus-602308

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the "Arab world" somehow had this opinion on MEE can you explain how you came to such a conclusion?

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Bak is as reliable as you can make him out to be given that he is in effect a self published source.

1603:"I repeat that Bak's views are not endorsed by Transparency International." - and you know this how? 1381:

this sophistry. But it's been a very enlightening exercise, nonetheless. And it's here forever now.

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/jamal-khashoggis-death-fuels-a-middle-east-information-war-15400)51447

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

3054: 2907: 2838: 2765: 2563: 2527: 2491: 2484: 2438: 2416: 2396: 2318: 2253: 1490: 1444: 1406: 959: 807:, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article: 218: 70: 2125:"An Al Jazeera spokesperson said: "Al Jazeera has no relationship with the Middle East Eye." and 1909:

OK, I will take that as sufficient for "backed", haven't examined it, I will assume it is OK.

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1) The lede gives undue weight to the GCC-Qatar diplomatic squabble. Shouldn't be in the lede.

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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/6/23/al-jazeera-call-for-closure-siege-against-journalism

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I had to LOL at your supposition that "ToI Staff obviously just copied that from somewhere"!

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is, don't impress me much. (AFAIK, they all told us that Saddam had WMD in 2003, remember?)

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Middle East Eye, a news website widely considered to have close ties to the Emirate of Qatar

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procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the

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To supplement the message, Brotherhood affiliates launched Middle East Eye in February 2014

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In a JPost piece by the regional, on-the-ground veteran freelance reporter Jonathan Spyer:

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The edit is marked as adding disambiguation links. I checked some of them. Surprisingly,

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https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/how-will-the-rift-with-qatar-play-out-2/

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on the web. To participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the

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I don't see where & how WP:BLP policies may make a change to these facts? Anybody ?

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https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2012/al-monitor/morsys-win-is-al-jazeeras-loss.html

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although the MEE denies this." and cite any selection of the above 9 sources you wish.

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You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

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article as a source, which seems to be good enough for TI, but not nableezy and Co.

905:. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions. 456: 2331: 2301:

even - the high quality sources I have provided you with? Is that too much to ask?

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when in truth it acts as a shameless extension to Al Jazeera and the Qatari state.

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https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/new-london-connection-to-islamists-1.648408

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I dont think that quite qualifies as a reliable source on if Qatar funds MEE.

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a host of other Al-Jazeera-affiliated media outlets, including Middle East Eye

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but didn't see any advice on whether to do this or not in general. I skimmed

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says that this is included in the 13-point demand list. It further links to

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This clearly frames the "accusations" as a part of geopolitical mud-slinging

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related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.

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as a "HIGH CREDIBILITY" source, with "a slight to moderate liberal bias". "

1130:, is an adjunct professor for International Law and Global Security at the 957: 217: 2015:

The Fourth Ordeal: A History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, 1968-2018

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Affairs, The Diplomat Magazine, The National Interest, Middle East Forum,

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I repeat that Bak's views are not endorsed by Transparency International.

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only that the article accurately reflects what the reliable sources say.

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edit removed unused parameters from the template invocation. I skimmed

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How do you actually propose to change the lead? Delete what, add what?

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the that the article accurately reflects what the reliable sources say.

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Digital Dictators: Media, Authoritarianism, and America’s New Challenge

409: 2217:, Docent/Associate Professor of Turkish and Middle Eastern Studies at 2053:, which publish in English and Arabic, in addition to the Arabic-only 1616:

purportedly funded and you want to credit the ToI over Berman, no way.

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all news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including

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There is an agenda here. They want to zone in on Mohammed bin Salman,

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Whether to add content re history, organization, death, awards, etc.

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It looks that this text, though very factual breaks some wiki rules

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It says so right at the bottom of, do you not read your own sources?

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Qatar: Missing activist Noof al-Maadeed feared detained or murdered

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Middle East Eye, an allegedly Qatar-supported online news website,

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procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the

408:, an attempt to create and link together articles about the major 1936:

Middle East Eye, an allegedly Qatar-supported online news website

2098:, “the registered agent for the website of the Hamas-controlled 1487:. Appreciate that you havent yet made me do such a thing again. 2090:, Bessasso was “a director of planning and human resources” at 1983:

Destroying Yemen: What Chaos in Arabia Tells Us about the World

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similar Qatar-backed websites, The New Arab and Middle East Eye

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Prove he is an expert, idk what "Wow" is supposed to mean here.

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of the same origin as AJ and all Qatar's other media outlets.

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David Beckham slammed for $ 200m ambassadorship deal with Qatar

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sounds like your average Neo-con; and support from people like

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piece is not an opinion column. You are welcome to take it to

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Several women to sue Qatar over strip-searches at Doha airport

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something else or just leave it as is, I suggest the latter.

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Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace

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Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar.

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MEE portrays itself as a credible and reputable news outlet

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I don't agree and I believe you have no consensus for this.

1401:

Middle East Eye has been described as being backed by Qatar

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Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the

1111:"In turn, HuffPost Arabi had the ability to cross-post to 860:

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the

537:. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the 1717:

I absolutely do NOT want to credit Berman "over" the ToI

640:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the 3075: 3004: 1484: 817:

to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for

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Middle East Eye, a Qatari-funded online "news" outlet

1956:"allegedly", nothing new there. I think we are done. 2729:

with focus on the Middle East and the wider region,

1018:. Please replace this template with a more specific 729:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 313:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2283:"Remove the 2017 GCC diplomatic spat to the body." 1985:. United States: University of California Press. 1809:No-one is agreeing with you about that up to now. 1399:lol we started with that. Hello, the article says 1120:as the Qatari-backed Middle East Eye has suggested 2710:especially over support of the Muslim Brotherhood 2337:BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OK, that's me done, goodnight! 2215:https://www.su.se/english/profiles/iblum-1.253921 2038:What Berman actually writes about MEE in his book 1542:Your sources don't support that statement at all. 1280:And take a look at the coverage of Qatar in MME; 1138:'s Department of Defense and Strategic Studies. 1149:, agencies of the U.S. government including the 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 2633:Arabi21, Rassd, Al Araby Al Jadeed, Mekameleen 1584:https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/times-of-israel/ 2179:Answer my question please. From what to what? 1403:. Who exactly do you want that attributed to? 1143:The Journal of International Security Affairs 968:This page has archives. Sections older than 174: 8: 1134:, and a member of the Associated Faculty at 533:, which collaborates on articles related to 3375:C-Class Websites articles of Low-importance 1929:The Gulf Crisis: Small States Battle it Out 1204:Qatar Soft Power: From Rising to the Crisis 848: 691: 586: 479: 364: 259: 3445:Knowledge requested photographs in London 2544:doesn't even include the reliable sources 1695:You have 5 sources saying founded? Where? 1622:You have 5 sources saying founded? Where? 1041:may be able to locate suitable images on 2560:You want to include more sources? Sure. 2456:as you're ever likely to see I'd wager. 1719:I think you have got this back to front? 1323:) political views. Very telling indeed. 1220:..." (p. 3) Yes, it has a footnote to a 878:With respect to the WP:1RR restriction: 527:This article is within the scope of the 2990:2A02:A03F:6AF4:4200:30B0:348F:F916:95FC 2017:. Cambridge University Press. (p. 373) 1877:Polarised Gulf media will obscure facts 693: 588: 481: 366: 261: 231: 3420:Low-importance United Kingdom articles 3035:She was a Hitler fan? So...kinda like 2282: 1769: 1716: 1672:would be almost useless as a source. 1619: 1612: 1602: 1508: 1504: 1466:lead, indeed, doing so gives it undue 3385:Unknown-importance Computing articles 2074:first disclosed a connection between 7: 3435:Low-importance organization articles 3405:Low-importance Western Asia articles 2122:is the 2014 national article, right? 1931:, doi:10.2139/ssrn.3003598. (p. 12) 1126:Berman is the Vice President of the 796:Warning: active arbitration remedies 723:This article is within the scope of 654:Knowledge:WikiProject United Kingdom 634:This article is within the scope of 307:This article is within the scope of 3425:WikiProject United Kingdom articles 3003:It seems that something about this 2011:the London-based 'Middle East Eye', 1609:, do you not read your own sources? 821:, provided they are not disruptive) 743:Knowledge:WikiProject Organizations 657:Template:WikiProject United Kingdom 250:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 3440:WikiProject Organizations articles 3355:Low-importance Journalism articles 1605:It says so right at the bottom of 1101:, Rowman & Littlefield, 2018. 746:Template:WikiProject Organizations 549:Knowledge:WikiProject Western Asia 14: 3410:WikiProject Western Asia articles 3005:has now been added to the article 2699:The Atlantic Council (MENASource) 1039:Openverse Creative Commons Search 972:may be automatically archived by 552:Template:WikiProject Western Asia 3370:Low-importance Websites articles 2466:on their very areas of expertise 2409:Re Willi, he cites that line to 1145:, has advised the United States 929: 788: 716: 695: 621: 611: 590: 514: 504: 483: 395: 368: 327:Knowledge:WikiProject Journalism 294: 284: 263: 232: 201: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 3415:C-Class United Kingdom articles 3360:WikiProject Journalism articles 2829:Here are the 13 demands in full 2760:minimal academic qualifications 1128:American Foreign Policy Council 763:This article has been rated as 674:This article has been rated as 569:This article has been rated as 442:This article has been rated as 347:This article has been rated as 330:Template:WikiProject Journalism 422:Knowledge:WikiProject Websites 1: 3430:C-Class organization articles 3400:C-Class Western Asia articles 3331:12:35, 12 November 2023 (UTC) 3316:17:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC) 3302:16:53, 11 November 2023 (UTC) 3275:13:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC) 2063:reported that Qatar launched 844:contentious topics procedures 737:and see a list of open tasks. 648:and see a list of open tasks. 464:This article is supported by 425:Template:WikiProject Websites 321:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 3280:I have told you before that 3254:08:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC) 3240:21:06, 22 October 2023 (UTC) 3224:20:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC) 3031:08:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC) 2998:20:46, 22 October 2022 (UTC) 2951:23:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2915:23:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2879:15:29, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2865:15:17, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2846:14:24, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2823:15:17, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2808:11:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2793:07:58, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2773:03:45, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2748:03:19, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 2571:00:15, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 2556:00:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC) 2078:(MEE) and Qatar in 2014. An 1879:. Emerald Expert Briefings. 1620:Five sources, not "one/two". 1526:Five sources, not "one/two". 3350:C-Class Journalism articles 3053:What are you referring to? 2535:23:53, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 2520:23:45, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 2499:22:03, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 2478:07:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 2446:18:41, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2424:18:38, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2404:18:34, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2381:16:55, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2363:17:01, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2347:17:00, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2326:16:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2311:17:00, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2295:16:32, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2277:17:03, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2261:16:08, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2234:16:02, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2204:15:57, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2189:15:41, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2175:15:36, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2160:15:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2147:15:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2114:14:36, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 2030:14:48, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1998:14:37, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1966:14:02, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1951:14:00, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1919:13:53, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1904:13:43, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1866:13:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1851:13:19, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1819:13:47, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1805:13:42, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1788:13:28, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1762:13:17, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1733:13:03, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1707:12:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1634:12:13, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1596:12:32, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1560:12:00, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1522:11:43, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1498:18:42, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1480:09:37, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1452:09:11, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1414:23:59, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 1395:23:58, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 1369:21:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 1354:21:13, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 1337:07:00, 9 January 2022 (UTC) 1314:21:57, 8 January 2022 (UTC) 1248:06:59, 7 January 2022 (UTC) 1132:National Defense University 1077:) 17:40, 13 November 2014 50:New to Knowledge? 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(2021). 1035:Free Image Search Tool 1020:media request template 994: 975:Lowercase sigmabot III 899:standards of behaviour 836:standards of behaviour 460: 310:WikiProject Journalism 240:This article is rated 75:avoid personal attacks 3395:All Websites articles 2884: 2387: 1147:Department of Defense 1097:Ilan Berman, (2018). 1029:may be able to help! 1026:Wikipedians in London 993: 805:Arab–Israeli conflict 749:organization articles 629:United Kingdom portal 555:Western Asia articles 467:WikiProject Computing 459: 195:Auto-archiving period 100:Neutral point of view 2857:EnlightenmentNow1792 2815:EnlightenmentNow1792 2785:EnlightenmentNow1792 2740:EnlightenmentNow1792 2548:EnlightenmentNow1792 2512:EnlightenmentNow1792 2470:EnlightenmentNow1792 2339:EnlightenmentNow1792 2303:EnlightenmentNow1792 2269:EnlightenmentNow1792 2226:EnlightenmentNow1792 2219:Stockholm University 2196:EnlightenmentNow1792 2167:EnlightenmentNow1792 2106:EnlightenmentNow1792 2022:EnlightenmentNow1792 1990:EnlightenmentNow1792 1943:EnlightenmentNow1792 1896:EnlightenmentNow1792 1843:EnlightenmentNow1792 1797:EnlightenmentNow1792 1754:EnlightenmentNow1792 1699:EnlightenmentNow1792 1588:EnlightenmentNow1792 1552:EnlightenmentNow1792 1472:EnlightenmentNow1792 1387:EnlightenmentNow1792 1329:EnlightenmentNow1792 1240:EnlightenmentNow1792 1088:Really? 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