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I was one of the editors who reviewed at FA, so just dropping in to confirm what Ucucha says re images, redlinks and referencing. There is always a balance between accessibility and precision in articles about individual species and for technical topics generally, but i think this article was revised
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I've put the article on hold for seven days to allow folks to address the issues I've brought up. Feel free to contact me on my talk page, or here with any concerns, and let me know one of those places when the issues have been addressed. If I may suggest that you strike out, check mark, or otherwise
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I've fixed the "Taxonomy" wording issue, but I'm having trouble deciding how to fix the "clunky" sentence about their herding and breeding habits. I'm not sure about the Grande Comore sentence in the first structure; I think it would depend on where the specimen was first described. Finally, I think
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free images, that is an eminently justifiable rationale. Regarding journal articles: Are they primary sources? As you know, those are not acceptable without context from secondary sources. In the medical articles I write, I can't use most of what I read in medical journals because most articles are
1473:
Must have missed that article. In regards to images, if the argument could be made that there was no way a free image could be obtained or created. Since there are no
Wikipedians in Madagascar with training to identify the species, and as the only images thus far have come from research teams, it
1151:
I've added parentheses around the author in the binomial (in accord, AFAIK, with usual rules in zoology, cf. ICZN Art. 51.3). However, I'm a bit stumped by the colon found after the two other non-basionym combinations. Are those a typical mean of indicating that what follow sis a bibliographic
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There are no images, I see a couple of redlinks, the references are almost all unavailable online, and the prose is choppy, and nearly incomprehensible to anyone without a collage education. I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but this doesn't even meet my B class criteria, much less FA.
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There are indeed no secondary sources (not surprising given that this species was really only discovered last year. (In any case, I don't think the distinction between primary and secondary sources and the preference for secondary sources is as useful here as it is in medical articles.)
1310:"Media. It has images that follow the image use policy and other media where appropriate, with succinct captions, and acceptable copyright status. Non-free images or media must satisfy the criteria for inclusion of non-free content and be labeled accordingly." (Direct Quote from
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This sentence just struck me as very clunky... perhaps reword? "In caves, individuals either group in large groups of more than 50 bats that are not reproductively active or in smaller groups of at most five bats which do show signs of breeding activity."
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As for the images, I hope to add a distribution map soon. The FA criterion has usually been interpreted as meaning that images should follow the image use policy; unfortunately, images of this animal aren't easy to come by.
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citation and not an author one? Seems to me that using the normal author citation per ICZN (as is, far as I know, the practice across
Knowledge) with the combining author citation in a footnote would be more appropriate.
1314:) If there are images, that would be a major improvement, I can look for some reliable online sources. Those are really my two major problems, the redlinks don't bother me so much as the lack of online references.
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The presence of images is not an FA requirement; neither is the presence of red links; there are no possible online sources; if there are problems with the prose, please be specific, and I'll be happy to fix them.
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I decided not to add citations to
Peterson et al. (1995) and Harrison (1959), because I hadn't seen the originals. (I do have a PDF of Juste and Ibáñez .) I will check them the next time I am in the library.
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I suppose the only thing to do would be to find out if there are any
Wikipedians on the island, or who have access to it. Otherwise we could try to get the authors to release an image under Creative Commons.
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in the article is at best impolite and at worst nowhere near a fix for "not cit things haven't seen": you're just citing the conclusions second-hand! I've been taught to consider that just as big a no-no.
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1226:(undent) I know you disagreed with it at FAC, and I wasn't there to insist on it (if I had I would have actively fought for it as I am now), but in my mind omitting citation to papers
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during the FA process to address some of those issues. If you have specific suggestions, please do make them though - it is always an area in which the balance can be reconsidered.
1041:"Nicole Weyeneth and colleagues found that examined specimens" ... is the examined really necessary? I'm pretty sure that they can't find out anything from unexamined specimens...
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primary sources which require interpretation, something we can't do here on WP. Peer reviewed or not primary sources are not accpetable as standalone references,unless there are
1367:
Indeed, The image policy is of course written with the assumption that USABLE IMAGES EXIST. The image use policy probably doesn't allow use of images from the cited articles.
1089:
mark the items I've detailed, that will make it possible for me to see what's been addressed, and you can keep track of what's been done and what still needs to be worked on.
1103:"metrical" is supposed to refer to the tendency species in certain regions have to be smaller or larger than those in others, but I don't know how to fix that yet, either.
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The article is based on the peer-reviewed papers that redefined this species last year; you can't get much more reliable than that (and the FA criteria require use of
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It's a pity botanical and zoological nomenclature have evolved independently. I suppose it's even more difficult in protists that are claimed by both Codes.
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I've readded it; the point is that there were only two groups in the specimens they examined, but later studies showed that there are in fact a few more.
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That's a good question, depending on the publication status of the articles used, as far as I know, rationale may be established, as if there are truly
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Also note that article 51.3.2 explicitly states that we shouldn't use parentheses when the rank is changed within the species group, as happened here.
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on Grande Comore, where it would be more easily identified. I am sympathetic to your view, but I'm not sure whether fair use policy allows it.
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often have some content online, like an abstract. That would help tremendously. Creation of a fair use rationale for an image would help too.
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My bad then. My familiarity with citation practices in zoology (which, to be honest, I find baffling except for one element) is terrible.
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Well, Harrison was probably in
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The links for the articles are doi links, which do go to abstracts, though not very helpful ones for this one species. —
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Actually, the full text of one of the main sources (Goodman et al., 2009b) is open access. Didn't you see the links?
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citations from secondary sources. In any case, I (still) hope to remedy it soon by actually seeing the papers.
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would be arguablethat such an image would not be replaceable withing a significant period of time, if at all.
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1464:. (Ronk01, I'm sorry for not responding earlier; I somehow missed your post on my watchlist.)
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Parentheses are used only when the genus assignment has changed, as article 51.3 states.
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research has led to the identification of five species within the
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Is there any place these articles could be found online? I know medical journals like
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Thanks for the review and for the help; I've responded to all concerns above.
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The colon convention is used fairly regularly in mammalogy; in the
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As for a fair use image, that is unlikely to be allowed: see
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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But
Knowledge, unlike scientific papers, explicitly
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59:This article appeared on Knowledge's Main Page as
139:A fact from this article appeared on Knowledge's
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1261:How Did This Article Make FA?
571:This article is supported by
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345:Knowledge:WikiProject Mammals
339:and see a list of open tasks.
162:Did you know ... that recent
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168:morphological
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154:July 24, 2010
150:
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147:Did you know?
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1352:high-quality
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1126:Looks good!
1073:Better now?
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45:please do so
34:
26:
1494:Miniopterus
1317:—Preceding
709:transcluded
1537:Categories
1426:The Lancet
1037:Taxonomy:
811:verifiable
643:photograph
449:Madagascar
417:photograph
182:M. aelleni
151:column on
36:identified
1001:Pass/Fail
882:(focused)
721:Reviewer:
701:GA Review
212:M. manavi
164:molecular
141:Main Page
1449:innotata
1331:contribs
1319:unsigned
1128:Ealdgyth
1091:Ealdgyth
737:Ealdgyth
724:Ealdgyth
651:included
605:included
245:FA-class
121:Promoted
1369:Circéus
1233:Circéus
1194:Circéus
1154:Circéus
995:Overall
773:(prose)
537:on the
369:on the
342:Mammals
274:Mammals
214:itself?
143:in the
80:Process
1498:Ucucha
1478:Ronk01
1466:Ucucha
1432:Ronk01
1413:Ucucha
1394:Ronk01
1360:Ucucha
1323:Ronk01
1288:Ucucha
1270:Ronk01
1252:Ucucha
1248:favors
1212:Ucucha
1185:Ucucha
1176:Ucucha
1119:Ucucha
1075:Ucucha
1047:Ucucha
1024:Lead:
952:images
927:stable
925:It is
903:policy
863:It is
804:It is
764:It is
753:review
691:Upload
682:Flickr
601:images
510:Africa
501:Africa
444:Africa
332:mammal
251:scale.
210:, and
102:Listed
83:Result
755:(see
711:from
639:image
597:image
421:added
413:image
29:is a
1484:talk
1438:talk
1424:and
1422:JAMA
1400:talk
1373:talk
1327:talk
1302:talk
1276:talk
1237:talk
1198:talk
1158:talk
1132:Talk
1109:talk
1095:Talk
808:and
757:here
741:Talk
728:Talk
672:The
279:Bats
166:and
77:Date
785:MoS
676:or
649:be
645:of
641:or
603:be
599:or
529:Low
419:be
415:or
361:Low
1539::
1388:no
1383:no
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845:OR
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751:GA
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178:—
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47:.
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