Talk:National liberalism - Knowledge (XXG)

1036:, that is used to source the content "Gordon Smith understands national liberalism as a political concept that lost popularity when the success of nationalist movements in creating nation states rendered it no longer necessary to specify that a liberal ideal, party or politician was "national."" Gordon never states that, if so please give the page in the Emil J. Kirchner's book, because I saw the source and it only use the term 3 times, and not to define it as "political concept". Then just use liberalism or nationalism. There is no sings of a specific ideology. And doesn't explain what are the ideals or philosophy of this so-called ideology. He use it to refer to the specific liberalism of Switzerland. In fact he states that "some are national based, other are 2039:

isn't also a cosmopolitan liberalism per se. There are just terms. There are terms that researchers use to label the parties and academics of the time. Like the sources state there were liberals and nationalist, or that is how they describe themselves. Some were nationalist, liberal, libertarians or socialist. If they were nationalist and liberals then they called them national liberals. As James Alfred Aho states, they had very different ideas. He use the term "mind set" to talk about the ideas that German liberals had at the time. It's logical that they need to use the term so in that way the reader could understand of what

1897:. Your assertions and use of facts and sources throughout this discussion have been so far form even rudimentary understanding of the use of sources by scholars, and you ignorance of ordinary rules of editing (cf. you assertion above that a professor of sociology analyzing the work of 19th century politicians and thinkers is a PRIMARY source) so shocking in an editor with your years of regular editing that I can only assume that you are disingenuously trolling this discussion for reasons of you own. 2292:, nobody said nothing about that the source 7 is not reliable. I already state my argument. You need to explain where the sources talk about on how the diferent sources talk about a common subject, that is say there are conected one with another. That they are talking about an ideology. Because now any of the sources seems to talk about the same. And even less seem to talk about a particular ideology. So do the favor of explain to me this clearly. Again, 124: 103: 134: 369: 72: 2318:, but the fact is that you do not like any of the sources we find. Now you talk about "reasoning" and that is OK, but there is no real reason for you to oppose the inclusion (or, better, the reinstatement) of the aforementioned version. At least, that "national liberalism is a variant of liberalism, combining liberal policies and issues with elements of nationalism" is no longer unsourced as 485: 1849: 1607: 21: 2035: 1706: 2460: 2076:. Note that although it is brief, it defines the ideology, explains when and where it arose, identifies writers who initiated the ideology and parties that followed it, and uses sources that provide more than a passing mention. I realized too that the term has more than one meaning (in the US it means cultural liberalism). This article should do the same. 1852: 1613: 1858: 1625: 1726:

There were a remarkabl;y large number of European thinkers and politicians committed to "national liberalism" as opposed to "liberalism" as a universal and universalizing ideology. The political parties they founded witness their commitment. After being in abeyance for a number of decades, national liberalism had a renaissance with

1373:. As the policy says, you are "combining material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If you read sources completely as a whole." None of these talk about an ideology. And putting selected quotes of some researchers won't make it a topic. I will put this in the AfD 2069:

then each is a topic and requires its own article. The closest to a topic we seem to have is Oskar Mulej: "it may be argued that in the Central European lands a distinct type of liberalism." But we cannot connect that to the other authors because we don't know that they are talking about the same thing.

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After an extended (two-month) moratorium, I returned back to editing this article. I did my best in recovering parts of the article that were deleted frankly without consensus (however I refrained from adding the most controversial among them), adding sources and expanding some sections from scratch.

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in a Comparative Perspective (Budapest and New York, 2006), 399–456." in the page 59. And he states that "One could therefore speak about traditions of ‘national liberalism’ as a common designation for a number of related ideologies and movements, distinctive for Central Europe". He never states that

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and he "propose" use the term to refering a "mind set" not an ideology and states that "Weber, schomller, and the sociologist of conflict were in some ways significantly different from one another", these mind set is not a coherent system. What he do is use the term to refer the German liberalism and

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I think it can be considered an improvement and I do not see how it can be controversial–at all. I even fixed translations: a technical edit! Moreover, it is perfectly OK to have an intro summarising the article's content. It is unfortunately clear that User:Rupert loup edits without even considering

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I agree that the 7th source appears valid in a scholarly manner. I would reject the 7th resource outright due to its self-published nature (and it does not seem relevant), and the 1st I am unsure of due to its (again) self-published nature (although the content of the site does look very precise and

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in 1867. It analyses the question of who was drawn to liberal nationalism. (post '67 it is about the who supports the National Liberal Party) I find it pertinent to this discussion because it responds to TDF's skepticism that there is no ideology, only political parties. This article looks at the

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I know Knowledge (XXG) guidelines and I have been active here for more than ten years. I thought it was better not to edit the article during the AfD. In fact, Knowledge (XXG) is based both on sources and consensus. The parts of the article you have been repeatedly removing have been there for years

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We have a number of sources that describe the noun liberal with the adjective national, but no source that connects them. My argument for deletion is lack of notability, that is, that either no topic exists or there are inadequate sources for an article. If national liberal refers to many things,

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presented by Checco, Göran B. Nilsson talks about national liberalism and compare it with cosmopolitan liberalism, again like in some of the other sources, he is talking about the regional variant in contrast with the worldwide variant. There is no a cohesive ideology with particulars dogmas. There

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lands a distinct type of liberalism, peculiar to this region evolved through the nineteenth century" and, citing Maciej Janowski, "the word 'national' acted as more or less synonymous with 'liberal'" ("'national' alone was sufficient to arouse suspicions of liberal associations"). Also according to

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and me). I perfectly know that Knowledge (XXG) is no democracy and that consensus should hand in hand with sources, but I also think that, when a controversy comes out on an article, the best way to avoid an edit war is to stick to the established version as long as a new, broader, better consensus

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The article, which needs to be improved (on this we can agree), has plenty of sources, some even very specific, so please stop deleting the page by redirecting it. As you know there are different brands of liberalism (as also conservatism and other ideologies have) and this is one of them. The term

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I have read Paul Kelly (your source #7,) he, like many contemporary students of nationalism uses "national liberalism" and "liberal nationalism" interchangeably. I see support for this "national liberalism" as an idea, or "mind set" precisely where you have mostly found it: in the 19th century.

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All this clearly need sources, but, as we are discussing the article's notabilty and rewriting it, I do not think it is a big deal for it to re-insert a long-time content, with a "citation needed" tag at its side. I was not the one who added these information to the article in the first place, but

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Returning to the topic at hand, TFD, I would be interested to hear you encounter the idea I raise above, that there was a moment, or, rather, a series of moments in many central European countries in the 19th century when national liberalism was an ideology; I source such a moment in Germany just

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Also I made a mistake, about the source "Robert Stuart, 'Marxism and National Identity: Socialism, Nationalism, and National', SUNY Press, 2006", Stuart use the term as a synonymous of liberal nationalism as he states in the page 3, saying that "France, more than anywhere else on the earth at the

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Yes, if we could have a source that tell us what are the tenets of national liberalism, who, when and where started the thing, we could work with that to make an article. Right now is a label that used some political parties, and a term that could be used to describe any liberal variant that have

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was a prominet national liberal. But in his wiki article, which is a good article, its never stated, if he founded this ideology there must be a source that state this and what are the tenets of this ideology. Also the sources must be secondary. Not primary opinions. Is a big statement that need

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Again, is not a distinct ideology is a term and the meaning vary with the circumstances in which is used as noted before. Sometimes is used to refer to the indigenous liberalism, other time as a synonymous, other to refer at the nationalism and liberalism of the time. No one agrees that it is an

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Historian Michael John cautions against a “simple association of liberalism with… the entrepreneurial bourgeoisie.” He argues that within the pre-unification Germanies, commitment to liberal nationalism among the middle and property-owning class depended on local circumstance, with agricultural

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The burden of demostrate this is on you. You stated that Kelly "uses "national liberalism" and "liberal nationalism" interchangeably." That's because the term can be used as a synonymous. This is because the term is not a real ideology and we can give the meaning that we want according with the

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Questions: the article says, "the word 'national' acted as more or less synonymous with 'liberal'". Is that what it mean in the national liberalism Mulej wrote about? Also, it says it is one of three strains in Austria. Does that mean Austrian liberalism in general or is there a competing

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And it seems to be used as a synonymous of national liberalism, in the page 182 he state that "Outside the specific economic field, Liberal nationalism was also exhibited in their favouring a large standing army and the strengthening of Belgium's military fortifications." So we have national

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I believe that the questions of the legitimacy of this category, being National Liberalism, have been settled and we now have a consensus. However the article needs to be updated. National liberalism has, I contend, been seen as major force in European politics historically, and today. I am

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has been unblocked and that he/she can discuss with us again. At the same time I find quite bizarre that the current version of the leading parts of the article is the one preferred by Rupert loup (who was blocked for his edit warring), against the opinion and the will of three users

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they seem interesting and should be part of our discussion. Finally, we should definitely take example and infos from de.Wiki and the other 21 Wikis featuring an article on "national liberalism": there are several sources and infos that can be added from those articles. I am sure

1361:, who previously blocked you, by accepting the following "conditions": "undo your latest reverts and refrain from editing the article for the next 48 hours (you can use the talk page)". It would be wonderful if you were to really undo your latest reverts, which notably includes 1604:: "National Liberalism is a variant of Liberalism commonly found in several European countries in the 19th and 20th Century, which combines nationalism with policies mainly derived from Economic Liberalism" – this is a wonderful definition, which matches the one proposed above; 1478:

These are very good suggestions and I fully endorse them. However, it is not easy to work without editing the article. The best thing would be to upload the text that I copied above and, then, procede with further improvements, like the ones proposed by User:E.M.Gregory.

764:, who both improved it. I am going to ask the two to express their support for the version in this talk page and/or propose improvements. Total rollbacks and falsely intimidating messages in my talk (Rupert loup's style) do not help dialogue and consensus to emerge. -- 1860:

here is only metioned once, it talks about Hungarian liberalism and nationalism, instead of saying separately it use the term, not a distinct ideology. He later use nationalism and liberalism separetly. It doesn't explain nothing about what is national liberalism.

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states "National Liberalism is a variant of Liberalism commonly found in several European countries in the 19th and 20th Century, which combines nationalism with policies mainly derived from Economic Liberalism". I think it is time to go back editing the article.

2383:, I already told you that you can't put material that is not stated in the source. So unless that you have a source that state that it is and ideology and what are the tenets and who, when and where started the thing as already said, that content can't be added. 1413:

Sociologist James Alfred Aho describes 19th century national liberalism as “a mind set that measures all proposed domestic reforms in terms of the degree to which they will increase social order, social control, and thus the state’s ‘power value,’” describing

1259:, like the mainstream liberals of the 19th century everywhere else in the world, favoring instead cooperation between the government and the national industry by moderate levels of protectionism, the establishment of preferential custom unions, subsidies for 657:, like the mainstream liberals of the 19th century everywhere else in the world, favoring instead cooperation between the government and the national industry by moderate levels of protectionism, the establishment of preferential custom unions, subsidies for 2712:

It seems to be a phenomena in several countries, and I think we need to show where it is active, not just historically, but where it is influencing nations today. For that reason I think there needs to be a section on Poland and possibly on Australia too.

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where I re-inventing what other users said? I'm tring to achive consensus. I alredy state my arguments. I alredy told you why the sources don't state that. You are who need to prove the contrary. Please, continue with the discusion and assume good faith.

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And where in the Paul Kelly's source talk about national liberalism? And I don't know why you keep talking about the reliability of the sources that you pointed, I never questioned such thing. You are clearly confused. Please take this time that

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in the intro "National liberalism is a variety of liberalism, combining liberal policies with elements of nationalism" — it is a mere summary of what the article is about and of what the article explains below, so it is not controversial at

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is supported by User:Rupert loup alone. I thus think that User:E.M.Gregory, User:Autospark and I are fully entitled to uploading the aforementioned sections. Improvements are welcome, but let's start from the most consensual version so far!

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is a perfectly sensible definition, the second part needs to be sourced but has been a feature of the article for years (better to leave it where it is, with a "citation needed" tag, instead of deleting it without consensus!), and finally

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with thi page as a redirect. "National liberalism" is a specific brand of "liberalism" and there are pleny of sources to testify that. The article needs to be improved, but definitely "national liberalism" deserves a separate article.

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National liberalism, whose goals where the pursuit of individual/economic freedom and national sovereignty, refers primarily to an ideology and a movement of the 19th century, but national-liberal parties exist today, for instance in

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understands national liberalism as a political concept that lost popularity when the success of nationalist movements in creating nation states rendered it no longer necessary to specify that a liberal ideal, party or politician was

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I expanded the article by moving content from several en.Wiki and other Wiki articles. There are still several "citation needed" tags and we should find out where those infos come from; I am sure they are not just original research.

415:, do not take it bad, but I don't care if you are here since 10 years or 5 minutes. Knowledge (XXG)'s content is governed by three principal core content policies: neutral point of view, verifiability, and no original research 1321:

a good deal of the "History" section — some of the infos included are just obvious considerations on 19th-century Europe, but there are also clearly unsourced infos, which have been part of the article for five years (see

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I simply did not want to be dragged into an edit war by a edit-war- and not consensus-oriented guy like you. You should have taken your issues to talk page first, instead of massively deleting infos. I totally agree with

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is pointing how a good article is made. With reliable sources that explain clearly the subject. Not a disorganised set of different opinions that differ one of another without any cohesion to try to pass it as a topic.

1197:"'national liberals' also played visible if not central roles, but with rather different, region-specific characteristics, which to a considerable extent distinguished them from their Central European counterparts". 1408:

Acknowledging the article's weakness on the question of defining the ideologies of national liberalism when we began to improve it, an issue flagged by both Rupert loup and TFD, I would like to propose 2 additions:

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Oskar Mulej use the term "national liberalism" as a synonymous of "liberal nationalism" in that source. Examples are in the page 68 and 70. And he cites "Liberty and the Search for Identity. Imperial Heritages and

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that defined itself against both the national liberalism of Jules Ferry and against the Marxism of Jules Guesde" they use the term to define itself, not as an ideology, the ideology was socialism that it's

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Scholars are reliable sources for their own opinions. Scholarly analysis of the ideological commitments of politicians, political thinkers, and other public figures are secondary sources, see:

259:"national liberalism" reflects a brand of liberalism, present especially in German-speaking countries, that has some "national" flavour. It has its own history and deserves a separate article. -- 1267:

countries, national liberals were also in favour of a more authoritarian or conservative political regime because of the multi-ethnic character or heterogeneous nature of countries like the

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countries, national liberals were also in favour of a more authoritarian or conservative political regime because of the multi-ethnic character or heterogeneous nature of countries like the

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not merely because they are unexplained (if you have a valid reason for deleting, take it to talk instead of edit-waring,) but because you made the deletions while the article was at AfD.

633:, combining liberal policies with elements of nationalism, and/or a term used to describe a series of political parties whuch have been active in several European national contexts. 51: 2252:

along with a nice definition of liberal nationalism or civic nationalism. Do you have a source with a definition like this about "national liberalism"? It is an honest question.

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That's correct, but you did understand me, Don't you? Have in mind that english is not my first language and I have dyslexia. So it's difficult to me not to make misspellings.

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Kurunmaki, Jussi. “On the Difficulty of Being a National Liberal in Nineteenth-Century Finland.” Contributions to the History of Concepts, vol. 8, no. 2, 2013, pp. 83–95.,

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Marcel Stoetzler refers to German liberalism and the National Liberal Party and doesn't explain nothing about the concept of the so-called ideology national liberalism. In

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is achived by reasoning not by voting. And also, add the sources to expand the article in what specifically manner? Impling something that is not stated in the sources is

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I didn't state that their not reliable. I don't know what you are takling about. And ther are not secondary, you are reading it wrong. "An author's own thinking based on

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All the sources presented here use the term few times. Later use nationalism or liberalism. Is not a notable term by any means. Lastly, I want to hear the opinion of

3061:", of course. "Were especially active in the 19th century", rather than "have been especially active in the 19th century" is the preferable, grammatical phrasing.-- 2348:

Most of the sources that were presented are reliable. I alredy state that. Is the content the problem, I already state why. That source is a self published source.

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time, embodied both the force and the frailty of liberal nationalism." and continues with "France of the belle epoque not only exemplified national liberalism". So

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I agree. First half of the article by Michael John is a history of national liberalism (no caps) as a political movement before unification and the creation of the

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on principle, without probably bothering to evaluating its content, I added a quite sensible definition of "national liberalism", a sort of summary of the article:

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regions finding it less attractive than industrializing areas; Catholic areas being less drawn to it than Protestant ones; and those living under an autocrat like

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The tags "verification needed" is for verify that the content here is also there. Not to question the source. Why do you not want that the sources be verified?

1541:, and agree that they would be positive additions to the article. I don't see how any of them are ambiguous or could be misconstrued as first-party sources.-- 2514: 1369:

The part that I deleted is unsourced, if you re add it without citation it won't change anything. It will still be original research. And this article is a

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there is an ideology. I don't know were you get such thing. If there is an ideology is liberal nationalism. Term that he used as I said as a synonymous.

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Please be very careful to verify the assertions you make. For example, Checco's source # 7 is a reliable scholarly source, a Chapter by Paul Kelly ,

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There is a clear consensus now. A different consensus might be formed in the future, but as of now there is definitely no consensus for Rupert loup's

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Maciej Janowski, ‘ Wavering Friendship : liberal and national ideas in nineteenth century East-Central Europe’, Ab Imperio , 3–4 (2000), 69–90, 80.

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don't mention consensus. I won't going to sit by and let original research be added. The purposely addition of factual inaccuracies is vandalism

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John, Michael. "Liberalism and Society in Germany, 1850-1880: The Case of Hanover." The English Historical Review 102, no. 404 (1987): 579-98.

156: 1519:, I have seen your most recent proposed addition to the article. What are we going to do? Shall we edit the article or not? Any ideas from 311:

I have started a discussion threat at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard questioning the only source used to define this article's subject.

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during the 19th century. In Germany, Austria and Romania, national liberals and/or "National Liberal" parties were long in government.

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I am attempting to clear up some confusing or poor wording but am getting resistance. Here are some issues I have with the wording in

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national tendencies, or vice versa. Also was used to describe a regional liberal variant. In the unsourced material it was said that

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I have, at least, done you the courtesy of reading your comments. You can find the answer to your question re: Kelly by reading mine.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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is only metioned once and I don't know if it's refering to a national variant of a country or a ideology, it don't explain nothing.

1619: 1827:". James Alfred Aho opinion is not based on any primary source and he don't state any primary source either, its just his opinion. 147: 108: 2630:

German Realpolitik and American Sociology: An Inquiry Into the Sources, James Alfred Aho, Bucknell University Press, 1975. P. 66.

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roughly 20 years when non-Prussians were drawn to a liberal national ideology form which the formal Party would be formed in 1867.

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or companies considered of strategic importance for national development, and various forms of incipient industrial planning. In

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or companies considered of strategic importance for national development, and various forms of incipient industrial planning. In

653:. At their origin, national liberals, although pro-business, were not, however, Manchesterian free-traders, that is advocates of 649:

was the ideology of the political classes in most European countries and in particular those of Central Europe, then governed by

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Hello, I think it is time to return to editing the article. I offered some ideas above, others did too. Shall we start again? --

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At their origin, national liberals, although pro-business, were not, however, Manchesterian free-traders, that is advocates of

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Any improvement is welcome and debate is welcome as well. I just hope we can refrain from barricades and total rollbacks. --

1224:". Lind himself defines "national liberalism" as uniting "moderate social conservatism with moderate economic liberalism." 2700: 786:

includes sourced material and a short summary of infos included below in the article. Almost uncontroversial stuff! I hope

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http://www.iwm.at/publications/5-junior-visiting-fellows-conferences/vol-xxxiii/national-liberal-heirs-of-the-old-austria

921:, we don't make consensus by voting and we can't add original research because you just want the content in the article. 2954: 2228:

TFD, I would also like to hear you argue why the more recent use of "national liberalism" as an ideal by Prime Minister

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The following is the version supported by the majority of the users who took part to this talk page over the last week:

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https://web.archive.org/web/20160304235510/http://www1.wdr.de/fernsehen/westpol/sendungen/afd-nrw-steckbriefe-100.html

419:. Put the sources and the content stays. If there is no sources it will be challenged. The AdF is irrelevant to that. 945:

Editor loup is misusing verification tags by pinning them on citations to a scholarly article in an academic journal.

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Is content unsourced or are the sources disputed? Please be concise in your answer and focus on the actual content.

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According to Oskar Mulej, "in terms of both ideologies and political party traditions it may be argued that in the

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that "National liberalism" is a specific brand of "liberalism" as opposed to a name used by some liberal parties.

1185:, described national liberalism as "part and parcel of the emergence of the nation state" in 19th-century Europe. 514:

Moreover, you are not the one can block me or, more importantly, what has to be part of this article and what not.

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Robert Stuart, ‘’Marxism and National Identity: Socialism, Nationalism, and National, ‘’ SUNY Press, 2006. P. 4.

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I see that you stoped adding unsourced material. Thanks for listening. To take the content here was the correct.

319: 290: 245: 3039:" is poor wording, isn't it? I do not see particular problems in the article's text, but I would like to ask to 2910:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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Please stop re-inventing what other users said and please start seeking consensus, instead of just opposing. --

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ideology or what it constitutes this ideology. There is no a scholarly consensus. And the term is used loosely.

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advocated a French ideology of national socialism that defined itself against both the national liberalism of

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They are easy to verify, just walk into a good library and read them. It is, however, standard practice to

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The phrasing in question was actually "National liberalist goals", so it was not in reference to people. —

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political parties that have been active, especially in the 19th century, in several national contexts from

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liberalism 3 times and Liberal nationalism once. Never explain if they are different or in what consists.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/24/western-liberalism-failed-post-communist-eastern-europe

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competent). However most of the sources I can see the benefit of for expanding the article content.--

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Sorry to hear this from User:Rupert loup. We cannot be stopped just by his opposition, by the way. --

1237: 882:(total, as usual), that can be easily considered acts of vandalism. I am going to bring the previous 328: 315: 286: 241: 2349: 1755: 856: 560: 20: 3115: 3066: 2839: 2803: 2719: 1918: 1546: 1427: 1256: 827: 654: 3013:, do you think you can help me out here and explain what the issues you have with my edits are? — 2991:

is used for people, and national liberalism is not a person or group of people ("national liberali

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Ps: However, we should make sure not to confuse "national liberalism" with "liberal nationalism".

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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and thus form the established version of the article. Let's see what other users have to say at

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this is an opinion article, not a notable academic work, and don't explain the subject at all.

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Not really. I would say "national-liberal goals" or "goals of national liberalism" instead.--

709:), include plenty of information that can be used in order to improve the current article. -- 705:

It looks like the articles from de.Wiki, fr.Wiki and da.Wiki, as well as their sources (e.g.

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Incidentally, Schlesinger would have identified with the National Liberal Party of Germany.

1177:, where it is at the base of the oldest and second-largest political party of the country. 975: 2542: 1323: 1272: 1268: 1264: 1260: 1209: 1109: 1101: 670: 666: 662: 658: 606: 139: 3057:

When referring to individuals, we should write "national liberals", not "national liberal

2870:

https://web.archive.org/web/20091210232136/http://www.sussex.ac.uk/sei/documents/wp51.pdf

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Don't take it bad, but it seems like you are totally not interested in seeking consensus.

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https://www.lemonde.fr/blog/piketty/2020/02/11/social-federalism-vs-national-liberalism/

1173:, where the ideology is one of the three country's traditional ideological strains, and 3129: 3111: 3093: 3062: 3040: 2896:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2799: 2680: 2315: 2289: 1914: 1709:

is also quite interesting and consequential. What about improving the article again? --

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Again could you please provide a single source supporting that view. It appears to be

2936:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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Lothar Gall und Dieter Langewiesche - Liberalismus und Region, München 1995, pp. 4–10.

855:

is not in the source given and the opinion of the source about national liberalism is

133: 123: 102: 3179: 3147: 3132:: feel freed to edit it as well, in case you find problems in grammary or synthax! -- 3125: 3076: 3014: 2736:

One thing about Australia: are you sure that "national liberalism" applies there? --

707:

http://www.danmarkshistorien.dk/leksikon-og-kilder/vis/materiale/nationalliberalisme

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And finally, József Antall has been described as liberal nationalist, for example

1938:

return to a comment you have made and change it after the discussion has moved on.

903:

I dont see any consensus to that, and I don't need consensus to revert vandalism.

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Yes, it's definitely time! Hopefully we can all reach a workable consensus now.--

1868:. It's how describe themselves, not a distinc ideology and not an academic work. 1785:

there is not a cohesive ideology in any of the sources. Again, this clearly is a

727:

for re-uploading the contents removed without conensus and expanding the article!

3133: 3097: 3044: 3008: 2814: 2784: 2737: 2666: 2411: 2398: 2376: 2345: 2324: 1710: 1678: 1646: 1524: 1480: 1453: 1392: 1336: 887: 802: 765: 736: 710: 691: 569: 517: 440: 412: 398: 260: 222: 1560:

this is not a democracy. You need to explain how my arguments are not valid in

3158: 3141: 3119: 3105: 3087: 3070: 3052: 3025: 2959: 2902:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2822: 2807: 2792: 2773: 2765: 2745: 2727: 2424: 2406: 2392: 2371: 2332: 2309: 2284: 2261: 2219: 2200: 2172: 2153: 2137: 2114: 2094: 2061: 2021: 2004: 1988: 1976: 1969: 1947: 1922: 1906: 1880: 1836: 1816: 1798: 1739: 1718: 1686: 1654: 1573: 1550: 1532: 1510: 1488: 1469: 1439: 1400: 1382: 1358: 1344: 1141: 1065: 1049: 1017: 1003: 987: 969: 954: 930: 912: 895: 868: 831: 814: 773: 744: 718: 699: 630: 577: 540: 525: 469: 448: 428: 406: 340: 323: 294: 268: 249: 230: 217: 209: 129: 516:

In fact, I received thanks for my edits by other users. Consensus, please! --

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National liberalism was popular in a number of countries including Germany,

1214: 994:

I don't assume anything. If there are easy to verify they will be verified.

30:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: 2884:

http://www1.wdr.de/fernsehen/westpol/sendungen/afd-nrw-steckbriefe-100.html

2609:

Between Left and Right: The Ambivalence of European Liberalism," p. 18, in

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The roots of national liberalism are to be found in the 19th century, when

978:

by assuming that experienced editors are using sources they have validated.

645:

The roots of national liberalism are to be found in the 19th century, when

2352:

The very same source state that in its faq "This website was created as a

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User:Rupert loup continues with his/her typical style: total rollbacks.

590:

It seems like that User:Rupert loup is keen on total rollbacks. With my

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non-national liberalism? These are things that sources should provide.

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and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you.

2987:"whose" is inappropriate in reference to "national liberalism" since 2640: 2495:

http://rcin.org.pl/Content/56895/WA303_77550_A295-APH-R-111_Mulej.pdf

1291: 1241: 1145: 3043:, a native English speaker, who knows this article well to check. -- 2757:

Name calling has continued. Stop it or there will be blocks levied.

1759:

use the term only three times, later use nationalism or liberalism.

2984:"have been especially active in the 19th century" is ungrammatical 1622:: "national liberalism" mentioned among "traditions of liberalism" 2981:, using slashes in article prose should be avoided when possible. 395:

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/National liberalism (2017)

2526:

http://www.worldebooklibrary.org/articles/Liberalism_in_Austria

1616:: "national liberalism" mentioned among variants of liberalism; 1365:. As I said above, I can do it, but it is better if you do it. 1032:

I'm going to copy what I wrote in the AdF, Emil J. Kirchner in

2379:, NeilN already told you that you can't add unsourced content 1537:

I see no problems or concerns with the additions suggested by

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is opposed just by him/her, while being probably supported by

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Additionally, I re-added a long-time feature of the article.

2733:

Whatever you can do to improve the article is much welcome.

2250:

in this relaible source of the University of Michigan Press

1871:

this source doesn't talk about national liberalism at all.

1326:), thus deleting them during an AfD is not a sensible idea. 2850:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

1770:. These is state in the tags of the Topics of the journal. 555:

please revert your inappropriate deletions of significant

2614:

Emil J. Kirchner, ed., Cambridge University Press, 1988,

1848:

this is a primary souce and not academic or reliable. In

1774:

Maurice Barres "advocated a French ideology of national

331:, there is a new AfD, your comment will be appreciated. 3092:

Also "national liberalist goals" is not correct, right

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gave us to cool down and think in what you were doing.

1766:

comment don't state that is an ideology and talk about

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The most controversial parts for User:Rupert loup are:

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Please stop adding warnings like this to my talk page:

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content. This contravenes Knowledge (XXG)'s policy on

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Please do not add or change content without citing a

2695:

particularly thinking of recent contributions from:

2300:. So please all you try to elaborate your argument. 151:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2906:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1240:was the ideology of the political classes in most 1893:and made available online at the website of the 1640:: not sure on this, but it may be worth reading. 1762:Historian Michael John is under a paywall, but 1095: 643: 600: 553: 481: 365: 2892:This message was posted before February 2018. 2874:http://www.sussex.ac.uk/sei/documents/wp51.pdf 2864:https://books.google.com/books?id=9IrE08SV1wEC 1610:: other definitions of "national liberalism"; 1181:, the first post-communist Prime Minister of 794:and possibly other users will agree with me. 8: 1598:In the meantime, I also found more sources: 1207:defines "national liberalism" in a way that 777:Ps: Please note that the first sentence of 69: 3128:and I found a compromise on the article. @ 1889:Liberalism and Nationalism," published in 1357:, I understand that you were unblocked by 1330:As it is clear above, the deletion of the 460:. Please, stop adding unsourced material. 97: 2838:I have just modified 2 external links on 2465:. Cambridge Scholars Publishing. p. 255. 723:Ps: Much more can be done, but thanks to 559:material a series of edits that violate 1754:Sociologist James Alfred Aho opinion is 1008:Please also read Checco's comment above. 363:: in respknse to this message of yours: 2490: 2488: 2442: 2128:ideology here, is liberal nationalism. 496:. If you continue to do so, you may be 99: 2144:Loup, There are no "clear" ideologies. 1430:strongly favoring liberal nationalism. 1891:The Cambridge Companion to Liberalism 1564:. If not the content won't be added. 1244:countries and in particular those of 7: 2597:http://www.jstor.org/stable/43610946 165:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Politics 145:This article is within the scope of 1628:: "national liberalism" in Hungary; 88:It is of interest to the following 3146:Glad we could figure it out. :) — 2705:Ivan Krastev and Stephen Holmes - 2641:http://www.jstor.org/stable/571885 2611:Liberal Parties in Western Europe, 2358:no official training in philosophy 1444:According to Robert Stuart of the 512:Aren't we already discussing here? 376:. Please review the guidelines at 216:I strongly oppose any merger with 14: 2842:. Please take a moment to review 1866:National Liberal Party (UK, 1999) 917:People, Knowledge (XXG) is not a 847:adition of unsourced content per 3191:Low-importance politics articles 1956:You are incurring in harassment 1498:National Liberal Party (Germany) 638:to accept others' contibutions. 483: 367: 132: 122: 101: 70: 19: 2660:Expanding and updating for 2020 1446:University of Western Australia 1422:as supporters of this ideology. 801:rollback to version flagged by 500:from editing Knowledge (XXG). 185:This article has been rated as 26:This article was nominated for 3035:" instead of "national liberal 1355:User talk:Rupert loup#May 2017 1248:, then governed by hereditary 378:Knowledge (XXG):Citing sources 1: 3196:WikiProject Politics articles 3186:Start-Class politics articles 2569:. Simon and Schuster. p. 32. 2537:Harvey, Kaye (October 1966). 168:Template:WikiProject Politics 159:and see a list of open tasks. 50:, 30 October 2009 (UTC), see 2539:"Wobbling around the center" 2105:reliable secondary sources. 295:07:02, 29 October 2009 (UTC) 269:06:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC) 250:21:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC) 231:21:10, 25 October 2009 (UTC) 3159:14:41, 22 August 2019 (UTC) 3142:06:45, 22 August 2019 (UTC) 3120:16:13, 21 August 2019 (UTC) 3106:07:48, 20 August 2019 (UTC) 3088:05:44, 13 August 2019 (UTC) 3071:15:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC) 3053:13:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC) 2960:01:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC) 2462:Reflections on Conservatism 2270:is an essay, not a policy. 2232:fails, in your view, to sup 1634:: new "national liberalism" 1456:and against the Marxism of 433:And don't forget consensus. 3212: 3124:Ok, great! It sounds like 2923:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2835:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2746:17:34, 28 March 2020 (UTC) 2728:04:23, 26 March 2020 (UTC) 2436: 1895:London School of Economics 1864:is a primary souce by the 1271:(later officially renamed 1220:'s use of the expression " 1218:Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. 669:(later officially renamed 508:) 07:05, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 388:) 18:40, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 191:project's importance scale 3026:16:03, 31 July 2019 (UTC) 2716:Thoughts? Contributions? 2210:before unification above. 324:16:58, 8 March 2010 (UTC) 236:Could you kindly provide 184: 117: 96: 2823:14:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC) 2808:13:39, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 2793:06:00, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 2774:02:14, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2459:Özsel, Doğancan (2011). 2425:20:37, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 2407:19:48, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2393:16:44, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2372:16:20, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2333:08:30, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2310:03:11, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 2285:12:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2262:12:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2220:10:00, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2201:10:00, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2173:12:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2154:10:00, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2138:06:08, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2115:04:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2095:03:11, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 2062:23:34, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 2022:23:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 2005:23:12, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1989:21:59, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1970:21:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1960:. Please, take it back. 1948:20:58, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1923:21:45, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1907:20:54, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1881:20:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1837:21:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1817:20:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1799:19:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1740:20:37, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1719:13:54, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1687:13:19, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1655:13:17, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1574:03:11, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 1551:16:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1533:12:56, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1511:10:10, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1489:07:09, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1470:12:51, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1440:22:20, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 1401:07:09, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 1383:20:33, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 1345:20:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 1066:06:47, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 1050:12:58, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 1018:21:08, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 1004:21:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 988:21:03, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 970:20:24, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 955:10:16, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 931:12:29, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 913:10:18, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 896:10:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 869:22:33, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 853:the content deleted here 832:22:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 815:21:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 774:21:24, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 745:15:24, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 719:11:30, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 700:07:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 578:08:04, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 550:, when he warned you to: 541:07:50, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 526:07:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 470:07:33, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 449:06:53, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 429:06:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 407:06:32, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 341:23:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 2831:External links modified 2356:by Luke Mastin. He has 1275:) or the newly created 1234:conservative liberalism 673:) or the newly created 647:conservative liberalism 2563:Lind, Michael (2013). 1845:About Checco sources, 1311: 1213:describes as matching 1137: 1129: 1121: 1113: 1105: 1072:Back to the main issue 690:can do a great job. -- 679: 635: 626: 618: 610: 565: 510: 390: 78:This article is rated 2183:TFD, your raising of 1931:Loup, I remind you , 1202:Up From Conservatism, 1122:Kansallin liberalismi 627:kansallin liberalismi 82:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 2904:regular verification 2566:Up from Conservatism 2437:Section's references 2242:Liberal Nationalisms 1420:Gustav von Schmoller 1238:classical liberalism 1130:Nationell liberalism 1106:Nationalliberalismus 619:nationell liberalism 611:Nationalliberalismus 594:, which Rupert loup 148:WikiProject Politics 2894:After February 2018 2840:National liberalism 1768:liberal nationalism 1428:George V of Hanover 1257:economic liberalism 1138:Național-liberalism 1114:Nationalliberalisme 1098:National liberalism 655:economic liberalism 603:National liberalism 488:Please stop adding 40:, 15 May 2017, see 2948:InternetArchiveBot 2899:InternetArchiveBot 2779:Return to editing? 1140:) is a variant of 884:consensual version 629:) is a variety of 84:content assessment 3155: 3084: 3031:"National liberal 3022: 2965:Confusing wording 2924: 2699:Thomas Piketty - 2187:, is essentially 2185:social liberalism 2074:Social liberalism 941:verification tags 355:@User:Rupert loup 283:original research 205: 204: 201: 200: 197: 196: 171:politics articles 64: 63: 60: 59: 3203: 3157: 3152: 3086: 3081: 3024: 3019: 3012: 2958: 2949: 2922: 2921: 2900: 2861: 2770: 2752:Note and a query 2691: 2684: 2677: 2670: 2653: 2650: 2644: 2637: 2631: 2628: 2622: 2606: 2600: 2593: 2587: 2586: 2584: 2582: 2560: 2554: 2553: 2551: 2549: 2534: 2528: 2523: 2517: 2512: 2506: 2503: 2497: 2492: 2483: 2482: 2480: 2478: 2456: 2450: 2447: 2354:personal project 2234: 2233: 1730:, and elsewhere. 1673:And one more... 1539:User:E.M.Gregory 1517:User:E.M.Gregory 1351:User:Rupert loup 1195:Southeast Europe 1190:Central European 1158:Southeast Europe 1154:Nordic countries 1083:User:E.M.Gregory 1078:User:Rupert loup 1076:I am happy that 1038:regional parties 788:User:E.M.Gregory 758:User:E.M.Gregory 725:User:E.M.Gregory 684:User:E.M.Gregory 586:Intro/definition 548:User:E.M.Gregory 487: 486: 371: 361:User:Rupert loup 173: 172: 169: 166: 163: 142: 137: 136: 126: 119: 118: 113: 105: 98: 81: 75: 74: 66: 32: 31: 23: 16: 3211: 3210: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3202: 3201: 3200: 3176: 3175: 3154: 3083: 3021: 3006: 2967: 2952: 2947: 2915: 2908:have permission 2898: 2855: 2848:this simple FaQ 2833: 2781: 2768: 2754: 2685: 2678: 2671: 2664: 2662: 2657: 2656: 2651: 2647: 2638: 2634: 2629: 2625: 2607: 2603: 2594: 2590: 2580: 2578: 2576: 2562: 2561: 2557: 2547: 2545: 2543:The Progressive 2536: 2535: 2531: 2524: 2520: 2513: 2509: 2504: 2500: 2493: 2486: 2476: 2474: 2472: 2458: 2457: 2453: 2448: 2444: 2439: 2043:talking about. 2012:circumstances. 1825:primary sources 1273:Austria-Hungary 1269:Austrian Empire 1265:German-speaking 1261:infant industry 1210:The Progressive 1074: 1030: 943: 671:Austria-Hungary 667:Austrian Empire 663:German-speaking 659:infant industry 588: 484: 374:reliable source 357: 329:The Four Deuces 316:The Four Deuces 287:The Four Deuces 242:The Four Deuces 214: 170: 167: 164: 161: 160: 140:Politics portal 138: 131: 111: 79: 12: 11: 5: 3209: 3207: 3199: 3198: 3193: 3188: 3178: 3177: 3174: 3173: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3169: 3168: 3167: 3166: 3165: 3164: 3163: 3162: 3161: 3153: 3130:User:Autospark 3094:User:Autospark 3082: 3041:User:Autospark 3020: 3004: 3003: 2996: 2985: 2982: 2966: 2963: 2942: 2941: 2934: 2887: 2886: 2878:Added archive 2876: 2868:Added archive 2866: 2832: 2829: 2828: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2780: 2777: 2762: 2761: 2758: 2753: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2734: 2720:Erasmus Sydney 2710: 2709: 2703: 2661: 2658: 2655: 2654: 2645: 2632: 2623: 2601: 2588: 2574: 2555: 2529: 2518: 2507: 2498: 2484: 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