Talk:SEPTA Regional Rail - Knowledge (XXG)

2284:

issues or state a pattern to it. It's true that disused lines were ripped up; it's true that some ripped-up lines became trails while others did not; it's not valid (unless directly cited) that all the ripped-up lines were done in order to convert them to trails. Or even if they were, you're not allowed to leave the impression that it was a poor decision to do so without funding for the trail. Or that a hastily-consrtucted line was done that way to "erase any presence of a railway"...who said that's why? There's a tremendous amount of using correlation to suggest causation.

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valid issues at SEPTA. The good thing is that they are here. The question here is how to get the message across clearly and factually and with neutrality. Further research and better sources need to be added, and the overall article needs to be tighter. There are loads of legit sources out there documenting the management that is SEPTA's Regional Rail division. I have reverted the changes for now, since the edite dversion is choppy and looks worse than the current "warts and all" version. I will attack this article over the next several days and clean it up.

2959:(I'm not; anyone else?). Fewer than ten libraries worldwide have any holdings at all; most are incomplete. Beyond that, "SEPTA Scene" was just Gerry Williams' regular column on SEPTA matters. I don't mind using that for simple facts, but something weaselly like "critics have regularly accused SEPTA management of having little understanding of traditional railroad operations" needs better support. What critics? When? My suspicion, though I haven't seen the article, is that we won't find any named critics aside from Williams himself (note: Williams 2627:

City Tunnel, as they hoped to electrify the line by the time of the opening. Costs was another factor. The Commonwealth cut all diesel trains all over the state: Pittsburgh got hit too at the same time. There was huge controversy. The reality was that cuts were being made all over the U.S. SEPTA just chose not to fight it and take the easy way out (hence, the flyer about the "boot.") As we obtain more legit sources as to the details of the diesel demise, they will be added to the article. I am thinking the article can have the same format as

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actually operated by SEPTA? I thought those were separate entities and just operated by the Reading/Conrail on their own. The article now says that there used to also be service from West Trenton to Newark, NJ. I can't imagine SEPTA going all the way to Pottsville, nevertheless Newark. I don't know too much about the diesel-era history, but I think what's in this article now should be clarified in a small section with a

348: 327: 191: 489: 468: 2483:, I don't really see any kind of name on most of them. I can see your reasoning for wanting to create a new article, but does that mean that it will only cover the diesel lines and ignore the electric lines that were in operation at the same time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that all the trains went electric at once. – 362: 2415:). As such, I think a brief mention about SEPTA's diesels can be mentioned here, and a separate article can be dedicated to SEPTA's diesel operations prior to 1981 when they quit. Since there are no definite plans to bring these services back, the article can be notable based on its historical qualities. Thoughts? 3235:, an article that focuses mostly on what might previously have been called local trains domestically. There's a note that explains the North American usage differs, but SEPTA is still functionally a commuter rail system (links outlying suburbs with the core) even if it offers all-day service (compare this with 2990:"101–188 Series Former Reading Married Pairs. 306–399 Series Former Penn Central Married Pairs. 400-series units are cars renumbered from lower series or from Reading Railroad cars 9018–9031 when PCB transformers were replaced with silicone transformers.": All unsourced. Possibly true. Probably belongs on the 2382:

Bnlboyardee89, I would be glad to assist in cleaning up some of this article, as several of the excessive edits admittedly came from me. There is a super resource published in 1999 that is both factual in its discussion of SEPTA history and mistakes. I used it to help writing the section dealing with

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SEPTA does have a well-deserved lousy reputation for a reason. And tht deserves mentioning. But, there are plenty of sources, such as mainstream newspaper articles, to use that state that. The addition of the source with Vuchic's criticism is the sort that should be used, not an inherently unreliable

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All the regional rail articles have been split now with the old R designations turned into disambiguation pages. The articles for the two Chestnut Hill lines need to be moved to their proper title with requested moves placed. At this point, the maps for each of the lines still needs to be updated, as

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I will do the s-line templates starting tommorow. In my experience with the NYC Bus changes, it seems the remaining few links will be very hard to find. Most of them will be in articles about towns and cities through which the trains pass, and some other things such as transit-oriented development,

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Certainly was a complex issue, which is why it desserves it's own article. About the image, two things. Firstly, as a fair use image, it can't be on a talk page, so I've commented it out here. As for the article edits, there were other copyedits in that edit that I'm going to restore, but I'll leave

2557:

Well, SEPTA fully took over operations in 1983; that's when Conrail, which had been operating the services since it's own 1976 formation, was required by Congress to get out of operating passenger service under contract. (That's also when New Jersey Transit Rail Operations and Metro-North were fully

2527:

Ok, that makes sense now that it's been explain a little clearer. So a new article has been proposed to split the information about the ex-Reading services to Allentown and Pottsville? I think it's a good idea, since it's basically foreign to today's Regional Rail system. But where those services

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At this point, there are still issues with the S-line templates for the former service to Ivy Ridge, West Chester, and Newtown. For Ivy Ridge, the Cynwyd and Barmouth articles have errors in the template. For West Chester, the Elwyn article and every former station to West Chester west of that point

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Bala and Cynwyd were the names of two railroad stations on the Schuylkill Branch of the Pennsylvania Railroad. Bala Cynwyd is the name of the post office that handles the regions around both of the stations. There are also two political entities in Lower Merion Township named Bala and Cynwyd, but

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I went ahead and deleted the entire section. After skimming through it, all of the content was entirely unencyclopedic and none of it could even be easily be re-written to sound less biased. If a criticism section is to appear in this article again, it must be re-written from scratch and properly

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I think that the reference for Westmoreland (R8) closing in 1983 is incorrect. I took the R8 fom Upsal to Center City from 1984 to 1991 and specifically remember the conductors asking "anyone for Westmoreland?" even though it was a flag stop, so it should have been by customer request only. I think

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The current photo being used for a SEPTA AEM-7 is up for speedy deletion as not having a license tag, and unless the uploader comes forward, it'll be speedied on the 24th. I'd like to prepare a contingency plan and ask if anyone knows of a photo of a SEPTA AEM-7 under a GFDL-compatible license, or

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My objection to the "remarks" column (yes, I know it's a common feature in US articles but that doesn't make it desirable) is that it's foamer bait. The information there is rarely, if ever, sourced and it's almost always trivial. In my view anything worth saying there should be rewritten as prose

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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing as I was looking at it again following the removal of the image, that it read like the rest of Oanabay's stuff. Not just the potential copyright issues (which are probably quite rampant), but the "connective" material, for lack of a better term, is that terrible

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The point of all this history is that, yes indeed, these were SEPTA services, as the SEPTA brand appeared before SEPTA took over operations. Even more so, as they continued operation for a short while after SEPTA fully took over. So yes, SEPTA did run to Newark, NJ, Reading, Allentown and Newtown,

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Well, lines were electrified decades before SEPTA, under the Pennsy and Reading. What Oanabay's proposed article would cover would be the dropping of the longer ex-Reading services that went further out than the electrification's limits. These were ended around the time of the Center City Tunnel's

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Well I was about to create a new section, but since a discussion on this has already been going on, I figured I'd pick up where things were left often, even if it was six months ago or so. The "Criticism" section is very biased and needs to be cleaned up. It makes it seem like SEPTA is a careless

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does not include the kind of information I outlined above. That belongs in the main text, preferably with actual references that can be verified by other people. If I seem salty, it's because the Philadelphia-area articles are chock full of copyright violations, opinions, and missing or incorrect

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Actually, Oknazevad, there were a few reasons why the diesels were nixed, which is why this subject really warrants its own article. You are correct about the first two. They ended on July 27, 1981. The Newtown line was the exception but SEPTA had no intentions of running the RDCs into the Center

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a careless organization with a great many people who criticize it. A great deal of what has been written has occured and has been in the press and the internet rather heavily, so I think it does deserve proper mention. There is no reason to remove any topics because they are all factual and very

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that strings together those facts to make the conclusion. Describing some ideas of a "transit mindset" and then noting some failures of projects suggests a cause-effect. Talk of criticism, even cited (the "repercussions of..." blockquote), doesn't allow you to extrapolate that criticism to other

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Additional question: Do we need a separate article for the Glenside Combined? After all, it's not really a separate line, just an all-in-one timetable so that riders from the shared portion of the Reading side don't have to look at all the rest of the timetables. I am aware of its history as the

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The purpose of the table is to provide an at-a-glamce summary of important details. Notes or remarks are a standard feature of roster tables, especially regarding numbering changes, ownership changes and retirements. Why are you trying to make it harder for people to find the information they

2315:

And now it gets ugly. Attempts to correct the issues raised here, with pointers to this talk page conversation in my edit summary, are promptly reverted, with no comment here, or any attempt to engage in meaningful collaboration. And then there's the abusive edits to my talk page, complete with

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Editors - thinking of creating a separate entry for SEPTA's diesel era. Since the article is "SEPTA Regional Rail", the 'regional rail' name did not kick in until 1984 when the R-system came to be. Before that, it was just called SEPTA Rapid and Commuter Rail System' (see link of map from 1979

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Well, with less than a week to go, drafting is a good idea. As the line articles would be new, we can start those now, and wait to turn the current R# articles into disambig pages and update the links until the 25th. I believe that will lead to least possibility of confusion for readers by the

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As for the actual topic, frankly, the chances of all of the former diesel trackage being reactivated are now and always have been nil. So to spend a large chunk of the article breathlessly criticizing SEPTA for not reactivating lines that haven't seen a train in a quarter of a century creates

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Agree with the change. It was changed to the incorrect link about a year ago. This had previously been discussed at the trains Wikiproject, so should t have been changed anyway. (Should note that old SEPTA-related edit diffs may not be available to anymore as the SEPTA pages were victims of

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Ok, well I understand now. I had no idea SEPTA ran services that far, so I completely support a new article. I guess now we just need to figure out a title. I'm guessing that we might have to give the article a common noun title since the services don't appear to have had an actual name.

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officially commenced on January 1, 1983. I don't know when the term started getting used exactly, but it pre-dated the R-number system. I don't think it was referred to as the "SEPTA Rapid and Commuter Rail System", and my guess is that that name only refers to the map. Similar to the

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to give the political background in order to maintain the NPOV. There is plenty of it out there, which I was unaware of when first adding the criticisms. You hit the nail on the head: these criticisms do indeed have a long history and need to be mentioned with neutral phrasing. The book

2997:"Replacements for 70 older cars; will also add capacity. First three cars entered revenue service October 29, 2010; delivery completed as of March 21, 2013. All units temporarily withdrawn due to cracks on some of the components." This is all discussed in the main text and the 2093:

General question about the section of this article since we've got some eyes on this page. To be blunt, I don't like the sourcing. The Railpace articles are rather dated, and the other quotes, while accurate, come from a message board, which is questionable in terms of

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will need a custom solution designed for that, because it is currently a disambig page of various airport connectors around the world, and redirecting to the SEPTA line with the note on top is not enough. Also, how does well wiki handle the names with slashes in them?

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I agree there are too many images associated with this section as it is (the removal of the "cancellation sign" was fine). however, I want to avoid having to reload the above phot again. Please leave it here so we have it for the future separate article. Many

3004:"Cars originally built for NJDOT for service on the Erie Lackawanna's commuter trains. Purchased from NJ Transit 2008 for added seating. As of August 2013 they were put in storage." Could easily be discussed in the main text, assuming sources can be found. 1108:

offical pair to Airport trains, but, of course, it is the removal of the pairings (which haven't been rigorously followed in years) that is promting these changes. I think we do need to mention it somewhere, but I don't think a separate article is needed.

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The history section contains at least a couple sentences lifted from Gerry Williams; as to be expected, much of what is "cited" to him is not actually present in the source. I haven't checked my Drury yet but I imagine there's a similar problem there.

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Fine by me. The data will still stay in the main template. The whole point of that project was to make it easier to update, especially for the pages that get less attention from editors. If you’ve found a better source for SEPTA, use it! Cheers! --

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opinion. It's not appropriate to use an article to make a point, ever. Even the talk pages aren't the right place; they exist for editors to express their opinions about what goes in the article, not their opinions about the article's subject.

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sockpuppetry. I point to my talk page, and particularly the revision history, where the editor clearly is trying to pass himself off as multiple editors, complete with logging off between revision of his edits. I think he need to be brought to

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Slashes are not a problem in mainspace articles. They just can't be used for project pages (ex: Knowledge (XXG):Project/other stuff - where "other stuff" will be a subpage of "Project"). I could use lots of help here and would appreciate it.

1332:, with redirects from "Glenside Combined" and "Glenside Combined Line". I haven't put it on the navbox, because I don'tknow if it belong there. I'm going to turn the R1 page to a disambig, like the other R numbers. Any thoughts on the matter? 2505:

As they've been gone for nearly thirty years, and have almost zero impact on the current operations, spending too much of this article on that part of the history would be undue weight, so splitting it off to a separate article makes sense.

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I'll just leave them up to you. I don't think seeing "Fox Chase Line" at Newtown will be good. Also, I didn't put any switches in the left-right templates. Don't forget that we will have to either TFD or CSD the R- right/left templates.

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I have no specific timetable reference for this, but I am almost certain that this took place in conjunction with RailWorks. These were long-time low-ridership stations. Alternating trains served either Tioga or Nicetown as flag stops.

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formed). Prior to 1976, the Reading and Pennsy operated them, with subsidies from SEPTA, which was formed to subsidize services in 1964 (they took over the Philadelphia Transit Company, the subway, trolley and bus operator in 1968).

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And the writing style is utterly inappropriate, too. It reads like poor tabloid journalism, and utterly fails at a factual, neutral tone. The peacock terms are only the worst offender of this. Also, the quotes are too long.

760:"Market East to Temple University: after a 15 mph curve, the speed limit is 45 to 50 mph going northbound (uphill) and 35 mph southbound (downhill) up to MP 1.7, due to a 2.8% gradient. North of that, the limit is 45 mph." 945:

Check that. I checked the List of AAR Reporting Marks, and SEPA is indeed correct. I was right! Check it for yourself if you don't think so. And no, I didn't alter it to say that to prove my point. I'm not that stupid.

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Amtrak connection is not shown for Downingtown, Newark, or North Philadelphia. The latter two have limited Amtrak service, but the connection is already shown for Cornwells Heights, which also has limited Amtrak

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sets of figures: calendar year 2022 for annual ridership, Q3 2023 for system daily ridership, and FY 2019 for line-by-line daily ridership. All three are now sourced from SEPTA's data portal, and are FY 2022.

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that both Allegheny (R6) and Westmoreland were flag stops until Westmoreland was closed and Allegheny became a full stop. The two stops are practically adjacent. I can try to produce paper timetable evidence.

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I want to restore some of the R-number S-Lines and color bars for certain former stations, since I see that many of them were already done for some former R3 Media/Westchester Line stations. These include

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critical and needs some cleaning up. Unfortunately, there is little doubt that those who live in the area and deal with SEPTA on both a customer service as well as political level know that, sadly, SEPTA

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Re-reading it, I'm even going to have to retract my endorse ment of the Vuchic quote. It's obviously placed for shock value, to create an emotional reaction. Totally inappropriate for an encyclopedia.

1878:, as that was its former name before the Conrail split. Ironically, that's the West Trenton Lines, but I digress. I don't think the undisambiguated name can yet be applied to the SEPTA operation per 3160: 2648:

the image in for now, just to preserve it. I do think it's too large for the section, so I may shrink it a bit. I would recommend keeping a copy handy so you can upload it later fresh if need be.

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I have been trying to find weekday commuter numbers into Philadelphia. I have read stats within the body of the article as well as boxes. If it is there I just have not found it. Any links?

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On July 25, 2010, SEPTA is doing away with all the "R" numbers for the Regional Rail lines, and splitting them into two lines naming them after their destinations on each branch. For example,

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who has been banned indefinitely since last year. I had many discussions with the editor at the time of his contributions and he continued to write much biased content, most of which lacked

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combination of overly familiar tone, and synthesis to push a POV that was a hallmark of his crap. Might need to roll back a lot of it to find a suitably neutral, non-infringing version.

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I agree. Based on prior experience, we can't assume that the content is even found in the citations. Even if it is, all the "transit-minded" stuff appears to be sourced to one writer at

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terms (like "unimaginable") and questionable, Internet forum sourcing, are part of an effort by a certain editor to use this article to bash SEPTA in contravention of Knowledge (XXG)'s

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I'm also thinking a brief mention on this main article after the list of lines is needed as well. Which brings up a good question, how do we change this article to reflect the changes?

2595:

Hello. Sorry for not having made edits in a while. Death in the family. I restored the following image because I want to use it for the new article of SEPTA's diesels we are creating:

634:"It should be noted that the R1-Airport line operates on former RDG trackage, but passenger trains did not run on the line until the connection to the airport was built in 1985." 837:" Since the link is to an RFP for new Silverliners and has no track charts at all in it. I was unable to locate track charts on SEPTA's website, so I left that removed for now. 2340:

organization with tons of people who are extremely critical of it. I could go through it by each paragraph, but it seems like the entire section as a whole needs to be fixed. –

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Not the first time I've tussled with these sorts of edits here, as it was a struggle just to keep out some previous, obviously POV material backed by nothing more the

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Note - sometime in the 1990s the nicetown and tioga stations on the r8 closed. someone interested in the history of this might want to look it up and add to timeline.

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To start with the S-Line templates, I am creating all the new articles (as redirects for now), or else there will be red links. Links can be found, mentions can't.

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template. I don't doubt the figures, but it's reporting ridership by calendar year, while SEPTA's annual reports, including line breakdowns, use fiscal year. The

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I thought SEPA was SEPTA's official mark, and that SPAX was the mark for their Maintenance equipment. Sorry for changing it about a million times. Clue me in?

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in 1999). He may not be wrong, but he's one man. That also means, inevitably, that anything cited to Williams is at least 17 years old and getting older.

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All the line maps have been created by copying and pasting sections from the old maps and changing links. The following templates need to be deleted:

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template for the new article at the top. I'm not sure what to call it though and don't even know if "SEPTA" should be in the new article title. –

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the R1. I hope all the other R signs will stay in the new versions of the articles. It's part of their history, so they should be recognized. ----

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that says "SEPTA Regional Rail and Rail Transit". It it possible that it was called "SEPTA Commuter Rail" at one point, but looking at other

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opening, nominally because the diesels couldn't run through the tunnel, but a certain amount of retrenchment to control costs was part of it.

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That said, these criticisms have a long history and do desrve to be mentioned, but I think that a more neutral phrasing would be appropriate.

1882:, because it's too new. Also, we should be careful that the article focuses on SEPTA's ops, not the physical line, which rightly belongs at 512: 473: 266: 227: 2738: 30: 2986:

and placed in the main text. I did do that with the note on the ACS-64 replacement of the ALP-44 and AEM-7. To take a few other examples:

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templates will need to be updated. This will require a lot of work and I am willing to do it with some help. For more information, see

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BSL connection is not shown for North Broad, even though it is shown for North Philadelphia, which is farther away from the BSL station.

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refers to all the track between the 30th throat where it becomes the Keystone Corridor and Lansdale, where it previously split into the

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But that track is also R2 and R3. The track that's only R1 didn't run, as far as I can tell, until the Airport connection was built. --

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have errors except for Williamson School and West Chester. For Newtown, the Fox Chase article article has an error with the template.

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the gallery ought to go in favor of stack images. We definitely don't need two consecutive images of Penn Central Silverliner IIs.

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I'm not that familiar with the material that Oanabay has infringed upon, but I suggest that an investigation should filed at

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The Silverliner V technical specification is online at SEPTA's web site. I believe the quarter point doors are in the spec.--

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other than seeing the names on polling locations, I don't know if the dividing line between them had any real significance.

65: 911:. If no one has a problem with it, the separate section(s) could be created for the otherwise unorganized conversation.-- 2628: 916: 857: 820: 2253:. The idea that if they don't reactivate them right now they're doomed forever is an absurd false dichotomy, as well. 680: 2279:

by synthesis. Stringing together a few facts in a way to lead to a conclusion is not valid unless there is an actual

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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A question about the rewrites; Why can't the old signs remain part of the articles? I just went to the

2102:. Some mention of the political background of them would be beneficial, as well, to help ensure NPOV. 908: 811:

Just so everyone knows, I proposed a while back naming conventions for SEPTA stations, with discussion

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Typos corrected. Also, why does Trenton Line need a (SEPTA) suffix? There is no other Trenton Line.

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Does this mean we should wait until July 25 to make these changes, or should we start editing ASAP?

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Agreed, Glenside Combined doesn't need an article. It needs to be mentioned in WTR, WAR, and DOY.

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R1, R2, and R3 all share the same row south of Univerisy City, till the R1 spur to the airport. --

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Is this correct? It goes through University City with the ex-PRR Wilmington and Elwyn lines, no?

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and R2 run now) and the old alignment was sold to the RDG. To get to the RDG main line, they had

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So to sum up, I guess what I'm saying is, lets stick to the facts and stop the POV pushing.

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I remembered there was a redirect from "SEPTA Main Line" (linked at the disambiguation page

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Different photo has been uploaded, and posted. This is a licensed image, taken by myself. --

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An interesting historical note (probably not relevant for this article, though maybe for an

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Isn't SEPTA's main railroad line the section from 30th street to Glenside, not Lansdale?

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tremendous copyvios and POV-pushing from an editor who also engaged in sock puppetry.)

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Actually the term "SEPTA Regional Rail" was used before the CCCC was built, as seen in

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All Septa literature refers to the Cynwyd line as just that with no mention of Bala. (

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By the way, this is the first time I ever posted so...hope I am doing this correctly.

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Ah, my bad. We could just treat them like closed stations (which they are). Check out

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but they were gone shortly thereafter, so too much space shouldn't be spent on them.

2532: 2098:. The section also seems a bit long for the length of the article, raising issues of 898: 884: 739: 416: 371: 2480: 897:

Should the items at the top of this page be moved so that they are within sections?

3098:). Any reason for the recent update to refer to the line as the Bala/Cynwyd Line? 3095: 1022: 517: 271: 3244: 2991: 2285: 2245:

Internet message board. (Those tend to focus on the things that go wrong, btw.)

1602: 1232: 981: 912: 853: 816: 615: 2236:, not a soapbox. If you don't like SEPTA, that's fine. But we don't care about 3268: 3252: 3243:). I have changed the SEPTA article to match the reality of their service. -- 3220: 3204: 3168: 3149: 3133: 3117: 3084: 3054: 3037: 3019: 2970: 2947: 2931: 2909: 2893: 2872: 2849: 2832: 2793: 2785: 2761: 2726: 2689: 2671: 2657: 2640: 2614: 2590: 2571: 2551: 2515: 2496: 2461: 2447: 2424: 2392: 2377: 2353: 2329: 2307: 2293: 2269: 2201: 2193: 2162: 2142: 2114: 2080: 2054: 2027: 1895: 1863: 1849: 1741: 1725: 1677: 1661: 1614: 1598: 1551: 1538: 1489: 1473: 1430: 1414: 1370: 1351: 1321: 1299: 1284: 1266: 1248: 1219: 1193: 1179: 1161: 1146: 1132: 1117: 1095: 1080: 1058: 1035: 1011: 973: 961: 940: 920: 901: 887: 871: 861: 841: 824: 742: 704: 683:. Oh, and I've made a small clarification to this sentence in this article. -- 660: 623: 592: 494: 248: 1317: 998:. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to help out. – 791: 684: 646: 2955:. This isn't easily checked unless you're a subscriber of long standing to 2662:

Sounds good to me. Sorry for dissapearing for a while (work has been busy).

3159:

Each SEPTA Regional Rail Line is color coded. The Airport Line is Maroon.

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is broken right now. I will leave Elwyn and Fox Chase untouched for now.

1210:: What should be done about R3 West Chester, R6 Ivy Ridge, or R8 Newtown? 2214:

Seems to me that the latest round of edits, with their breathless use of

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can visit the

2127:

Trains, Trolleys and Transit: A Guide to Philadelphia Area Rail Transit

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article, though I've just flagged significant sourcing problems there.

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The "Criticism" section of the article is currently written in a very

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Great. I will attack this over the next few days. Thank you kindly.

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I just brought it back, although it should probably be upsized. ----

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Yeah, those are the most niggling. The "what links here" feature is

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referencing, and the problem only gets worse as you try to fix it.

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which was closed before SEPTA got rid of the R-Number system, and

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has such a photo they are willing to post under such a license.--

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has begun. Still need to add more to it, but should be done soon.

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I'm trying to consolidate all the old Bethlehem branch stuff at

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This is an encyclopedia, not a railfanning site. An at-a-glance

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and this article's on the list; I just hadn't gotten there yet.

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and needs to be re-written. Most of the content was created by

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Knowledge (XXG):Contributor copyright investigations/Oanabay04

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Sub-sections of the existing lines shortened from those, i.e.

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the current maps are still based off the old R designations.

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Big changes needed soon: all RR lines to be split and renamed

399:, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to 1646:

templates for all Manayunk/Norristown Line station articles

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templates for all Lansdale/Doylestown Line station articles

1773:

templates for all Chestnut Hill West Line station articles

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templates for all Chestnut Hill East Line station articles

907:

Well, I think that it is okay to refactor discussion, see

407:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the 1462:

templates for all Wilmington/Newark Line station articles

1402:

templates for all Glenside Combined Line station articles

3239:, which runs 24-hour service but is still classified as 3124:

Name is based on the end point for that particular line.

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alignment. A new alignment was built in 1873 (where the

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Currently, the "transit type" in the info box links to

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templates for all Paoli/Thorndale Line station articles

1886:, as Amtrak owns it (ditto with the Wilmington Line). 160: 2275:

In addition to a ton of bias in tone, there is even

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templates for all West Trenton Line station articles

516:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 270:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2157:article a few minutes ago, and it was as if it was 174: 1799:so ALL Regional Rail lines have the color #44687E 1447:templates for all Warminster Line station articles 1758:templates for all Fox Chase Line station articles 1275:for an example of how it has been handled before. 3096:http://www.septa.org/schedules/rail/w/CYN_0.html 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 1694:templates for all Trenton Line station articles 1387:templates for all Airport Line station articles 665:Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore Railroad 2434:. It would certainly alleviate my concerns of 1631:templates for all Cynwyd Line station articles 834:Just removed "Data source: SEPTA track charts. 611:even though track ends at Quakertown) and the 2815:. Any editors working on this article should 8: 3099: 1152:bus transit centers, minor agencies, etc. 663:article) is that the R1 uses the original 462: 321: 216: 1523:for all Media/Elwyn Line station articles 815:, where you are welcome to contribute.-- 530:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Philadelphia 284:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Pennsylvania 3161:2600:1017:B830:58E9:358E:5B54:A8A2:DB90 2210:More edits with questionable neutrality 2120:I am working on this. I am researching 1324:, which is itself became a redirect to 464: 323: 218: 188: 3299:Mid-importance rail transport articles 2358:Agreed. The article, particularly, is 3314:High-importance Philadelphia articles 1086:duplicate articles before that date. 7: 3289:Mid-importance Pennsylvania articles 3077:regarding the title of the article. 2952:Here's a typical edit that bugs me: 2739:File:SEPTA Regional Rail Diagram.svg 2470:from 1981. The SEPTA Regional Rail 1253:No, I'm talking about the S-lines. 510:This article is within the scope of 393:This article is within the scope of 264:This article is within the scope of 3073:. Feedback would be appreciated at 2148: 207:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 2737:I noticed the following errors in 2733:Errors in new not-to-scale diagram 425:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Trains 14: 2133:reference guide for this article. 533:Template:WikiProject Philadelphia 287:Template:WikiProject Pennsylvania 50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 2430:That seems like a good idea per 1404:(likewise, per above discussion) 807:SEPTA Station Naming Conventions 677:Junction Railroad (Philadelphia) 497: 487: 466: 360: 346: 325: 251: 241: 220: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 3294:C-Class rail transport articles 2708:Daily Commuters to Philadelphia 1804:Add new Regional Rail lines to 1021:to prepare for these changes. 1017:I changed West Trenton Line to 550:This article has been rated as 445:This article has been rated as 304:This article has been rated as 2936:There's already one active at 2727:03:40, 11 September 2011 (UTC) 1977:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R8 1971:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R7 1966:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R6 1961:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R5 1956:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R3 1951:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R2 1946:Template:S-line/SEPTA right/R1 1545:and [[Lansdale/Doylestown Line 1273:Valhalla (Metro-North station) 1019:West Trenton Line (NJ Transit) 842:16:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC) 825:01:56, 24 September 2006 (UTC) 599:The R1 goes to there, but the 1: 3309:C-Class Philadelphia articles 3284:C-Class Pennsylvania articles 3221:04:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC) 3205:03:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC) 3169:17:51, 24 November 2022 (UTC) 2859:sourced from the beginning. – 2232:It needs to stop. This is an 1941:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R8 1935:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R7 1929:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R6 1924:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R5 1918:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R3 1913:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R2 1908:Template:S-line/SEPTA left/R1 1344:To-do list for RR change over 1313:So, I kinda changed my mind. 921:20:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC) 902:19:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC) 888:19:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC) 743:19:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC) 593:20:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 524:and see a list of open tasks. 413:WikiProject Trains to do list 278:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 3304:All WikiProject Trains pages 3227:Reclassifying "Transit Type" 2794:18:55, 4 November 2015 (UTC) 2762:23:53, 23 January 2013 (UTC) 2690:19:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 2629:Fox Chase Rapid Transit Line 2330:22:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC) 2308:02:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC) 2294:01:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC) 2270:23:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC) 862:01:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC) 3085:00:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC) 3055:16:53, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3038:16:34, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 3020:13:38, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2971:12:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2948:12:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2932:10:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2910:00:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2894:00:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC) 2013:Template:R8 (SEPTA)-infobox 2008:Template:R7 (SEPTA)-infobox 2003:Template:R6 (SEPTA)-infobox 1998:Template:R5 (SEPTA)-infobox 1993:Template:R3 (SEPTA)-infobox 1988:Template:R2 (SEPTA)-infobox 1983:Template:R1 (SEPTA)-infobox 681:Baltimore and Ohio Railroad 428:Template:WikiProject Trains 3330: 3269:21:58, 6 August 2024 (UTC) 3253:19:16, 6 August 2024 (UTC) 3183:American transit ridership 3118:02:04, 30 April 2017 (UTC) 2873:09:02, 9 August 2016 (UTC) 2850:12:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC) 2833:09:57, 2 August 2016 (UTC) 2799:POV of "Criticism" section 2767:R-number S-lines revisited 2672:13:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC) 962:15:55, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 941:15:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 624:19:09, 6 August 2024 (UTC) 556:project's importance scale 451:project's importance scale 310:project's importance scale 2805:non-netural point of view 2658:21:41, 23 June 2011 (UTC) 2641:18:09, 23 June 2011 (UTC) 2631:. Your thoughts, please. 2615:18:03, 23 June 2011 (UTC) 2591:20:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 2572:13:26, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 2552:09:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 2516:05:18, 16 June 2011 (UTC) 2497:22:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC) 2462:06:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC) 2448:05:16, 12 June 2011 (UTC) 2425:15:30, 11 June 2011 (UTC) 2393:02:27, 11 June 2011 (UTC) 2378:18:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 2202:18:31, 26 July 2010 (UTC) 2185:00:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC) 2171:13:13, 25 July 2010 (UTC) 2149:Can't the old signs stay? 2143:02:33, 11 June 2011 (UTC) 2115:00:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC) 2081:15:01, 29 July 2010 (UTC) 2055:02:56, 29 July 2010 (UTC) 2028:00:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC) 1896:17:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1864:16:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1850:18:56, 18 July 2010 (UTC) 1478:West Trenton Line (SEPTA) 1300:14:12, 22 July 2010 (UTC) 1285:00:55, 22 July 2010 (UTC) 1267:23:17, 21 July 2010 (UTC) 1249:22:35, 21 July 2010 (UTC) 1220:21:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC) 1194:20:38, 20 July 2010 (UTC) 1180:23:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1162:23:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1147:17:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1133:16:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1118:15:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1096:15:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1081:13:50, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 1059:18:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC) 1036:13:09, 18 July 2010 (UTC) 1012:07:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC) 893:Talk section organization 705:04:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC) 656:19:26, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC) 649:19:20, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC) 641:16:45, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC) 549: 482: 444: 341: 303: 236: 215: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 3150:03:09, 15 May 2022 (UTC) 2782:Shawmont (SEPTA station) 2729:LMM September 10, 2011 2354:07:37, 6 June 2011 (UTC) 1607:Manayunk/Norristown Line 1170:useful for those things! 978:Manayunk/Norristown Line 872:23:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC) 794:, i'll put a link in. -- 687:21:45, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC) 513:WikiProject Philadelphia 267:WikiProject Pennsylvania 3134:10:52, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 2774:Fishers (SEPTA station) 2249:definitive issues with 1734:Chestnut Hill West Line 1670:Chestnut Hill East Line 431:rail transport articles 1872:Trenton Line (Conrail) 1423:Wilmington/Newark Line 1365:(per above discussion) 1362:Glenside Combined Line 1255:Cynwyd (SEPTA station) 802:05:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC 197:This article is rated 75:avoid personal attacks 2916:WP:Copyright problems 2881:More copyright issues 773:comment was added by 720:comment was added by 536:Philadelphia articles 290:Pennsylvania articles 201:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 100:Neutral point of view 2678:SEPTA Diesel Service 2320:, at the very least. 2155:Airport Line (SEPTA) 1666:Trenton Line (SEPTA) 1543:Paoli/Thorndale Line 1356:Airport Line (SEPTA) 1326:Airport Line (SEPTA) 763:It is unclear what " 105:No original research 3075:Talk:Bethlehem Line 2778:my upcoming article 1876:Trenton Subdivision 830:Speed Limits Source 710:R8 station closures 505:Philadelphia portal 259:Pennsylvania portal 25:SEPTA Regional Rail 2175:They should stay. 1884:Northeast Corridor 669:Northeast Corridor 396:WikiProject Trains 203:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 3178:I've removed the 3174:Ridership figures 3120: 3104:comment added by 2930: 2871: 2831: 2819:and fix it up! – 2589: 2550: 2495: 2352: 2277:original research 2089:Criticism section 1874:is a redirect to 1848: 1057: 1010: 952:comment added by 786: 733: 613:Doylestown branch 595: 583:comment added by 570: 569: 566: 565: 562: 561: 461: 460: 457: 456: 391: 390: 320: 319: 316: 315: 183: 182: 66:Assume good faith 43: 3321: 3190:previous version 3187: 3181: 2924: 2922: 2865: 2863: 2825: 2823: 2813:reliable sources 2605:thanx,Oknazevad. 2583: 2581: 2544: 2542: 2537: 2531: 2489: 2487: 2383:the 1983 strike. 2346: 2344: 2122:reliable sources 2096:reliable sources 2079: 2076: 2071: 2066: 2053: 2050: 2045: 2040: 1842: 1840: 1829: 1823: 1813: 1807: 1798: 1792: 1772: 1766: 1757: 1751: 1710: 1704: 1693: 1687: 1645: 1639: 1630: 1624: 1582: 1576: 1567: 1561: 1520: 1514: 1505: 1499: 1482:Media/Elwyn Line 1461: 1455: 1446: 1440: 1401: 1395: 1386: 1380: 1229:Media/Elwyn Line 1051: 1049: 1004: 1002: 993: 987: 976:will become the 964: 768: 715: 675:over either the 609:Bethlehem Branch 578: 538: 537: 534: 531: 528: 507: 502: 501: 500: 491: 484: 483: 478: 470: 463: 433: 432: 429: 426: 423: 364: 355: 354: 350: 343: 342: 337: 329: 322: 292: 291: 288: 285: 282: 261: 256: 255: 254: 245: 238: 237: 232: 224: 217: 200: 194: 193: 185: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 3329: 3328: 3324: 3323: 3322: 3320: 3319: 3318: 3274: 3273: 3229: 3185: 3179: 3176: 3157: 3092: 3067: 2983: 2920: 2883: 2861: 2821: 2801: 2769: 2735: 2710: 2579: 2540: 2535: 2529: 2485: 2409: 2342: 2212: 2151: 2091: 2074: 2069: 2064: 2061: 2048: 2043: 2038: 2035: 1979:(ORPHAN FIRST!) 1931:(ORPHAN FIRST!) 1920:(ORPHAN FIRST!) 1880:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1838: 1827: 1821: 1811: 1805: 1796: 1790: 1770: 1764: 1755: 1749: 1708: 1702: 1691: 1685: 1643: 1637: 1628: 1622: 1580: 1574: 1565: 1559: 1518: 1512: 1503: 1497: 1459: 1453: 1444: 1438: 1419:Warminster Line 1399: 1393: 1384: 1378: 1346: 1330:SEPTA Main Line 1047: 1000: 991: 985: 970: 947: 929: 919: 895: 880: 878:Station History 869:AEMoreira042281 860: 849: 847:Photo for AEM-7 832: 823: 809: 769:—The preceding 751: 716:—The preceding 712: 698: 673:trackage rights 632: 575: 552:High-importance 535: 532: 529: 526: 525: 503: 498: 496: 477:High‑importance 476: 430: 427: 424: 421: 420: 392: 366: 365: 335: 289: 286: 283: 280: 279: 257: 252: 250: 230: 198: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 3327: 3325: 3317: 3316: 3311: 3306: 3301: 3296: 3291: 3286: 3276: 3275: 3272: 3271: 3228: 3225: 3224: 3223: 3192:was reporting 3175: 3172: 3156: 3153: 3137: 3136: 3091: 3088: 3071:Bethlehem Line 3066: 3065:Bethlehem Line 3063: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3059: 3058: 3057: 3006: 3005: 3002: 2995: 2982: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2973: 2950: 2921:Dream out loud 2882: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2862:Dream out loud 2853: 2852: 2822:Dream out loud 2809:User:Oanabay04 2800: 2797: 2768: 2765: 2751: 2750: 2747: 2734: 2731: 2709: 2706: 2705: 2704: 2703: 2702: 2701: 2700: 2699: 2698: 2697: 2696: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2674: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2598: 2597: 2596: 2580:Dream out loud 2559: 2541:Dream out loud 2525: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2518: 2503: 2486:Dream out loud 2468:this timetable 2408: 2407:End of diesels 2405: 2404: 2403: 2402: 2401: 2400: 2399: 2398: 2397: 2396: 2395: 2343:Dream out loud 2313: 2312: 2311: 2310: 2211: 2208: 2207: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2150: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2090: 2087: 2086: 2085: 2084: 2083: 2016: 2015: 2010: 2005: 2000: 1995: 1990: 1985: 1980: 1974: 1968: 1963: 1958: 1953: 1948: 1943: 1938: 1932: 1926: 1921: 1915: 1910: 1901: 1900: 1899: 1898: 1839:Dream out loud 1834: 1833: 1815: 1801: 1780: 1776: 1775: 1760: 1745: 1737: 1730:Fox Chase Line 1718: 1714: 1713: 1696: 1681: 1673: 1653: 1649: 1648: 1633: 1618: 1610: 1590: 1586: 1585: 1570: 1555: 1547: 1530: 1527: 1526: 1508: 1493: 1485: 1467: 1465: 1464: 1449: 1434: 1426: 1408: 1406: 1405: 1389: 1374: 1366: 1345: 1342: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1307: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1237:Fox Chase Line 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1200: 1199: 1198: 1197: 1196: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1048:Dream out loud 1039: 1038: 1001:Dream out loud 969: 966: 928: 927:Reporting Mark 925: 924: 923: 915: 894: 891: 879: 876: 875: 874: 856: 848: 845: 831: 828: 819: 808: 805: 804: 803: 750: 747: 746: 745: 711: 708: 697: 694: 693: 692: 691: 690: 689: 688: 631: 628: 627: 626: 605:Bethlehem Line 574: 571: 568: 567: 564: 563: 560: 559: 548: 542: 541: 539: 522:the discussion 509: 508: 492: 480: 479: 471: 459: 458: 455: 454: 447:Mid-importance 443: 437: 436: 434: 401:rail transport 389: 388: 385: 377: 376: 367: 359: 358: 353: 351: 339: 338: 336:Mid‑importance 330: 318: 317: 314: 313: 306:Mid-importance 302: 296: 295: 293: 276:the discussion 263: 262: 246: 234: 233: 231:Mid‑importance 225: 213: 212: 206: 195: 181: 180: 118: 117: 113: 112: 107: 102: 93: 92: 90: 89: 82: 77: 68: 62: 60: 59: 48: 39: 38: 35: 34: 28: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3326: 3315: 3312: 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2229:previously. 2228: 2223: 2221: 2217: 2209: 2203: 2199: 2195: 2191: 2190: 2189: 2188: 2187: 2186: 2182: 2178: 2173: 2172: 2168: 2164: 2160: 2156: 2144: 2140: 2136: 2132: 2128: 2123: 2119: 2118: 2117: 2116: 2112: 2108: 2103: 2101: 2097: 2088: 2082: 2078: 2077: 2072: 2067: 2058: 2057: 2056: 2052: 2051: 2046: 2041: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2025: 2021: 2014: 2011: 2009: 2006: 2004: 2001: 1999: 1996: 1994: 1991: 1989: 1986: 1984: 1981: 1978: 1975: 1972: 1969: 1967: 1964: 1962: 1959: 1957: 1954: 1952: 1949: 1947: 1944: 1942: 1939: 1936: 1933: 1930: 1927: 1925: 1922: 1919: 1916: 1914: 1911: 1909: 1906: 1905: 1904: 1897: 1893: 1889: 1885: 1881: 1877: 1873: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1861: 1857: 1852: 1851: 1846: 1841: 1832: 1831: 1826: 1817: 1816: 1814: 1810: 1802: 1800: 1795: 1787: 1785: 1784: 1782: 1781: 1777: 1774: 1769: 1761: 1759: 1754: 1746: 1744: 1743: 1740:Disambiguate 1738: 1736: 1735: 1731: 1727: 1723: 1722: 1720: 1719: 1715: 1712: 1707: 1699: 1698: 1695: 1690: 1682: 1680: 1679: 1676:Disambiguate 1674: 1672: 1671: 1667: 1663: 1658: 1657: 1655: 1654: 1650: 1647: 1642: 1634: 1632: 1627: 1619: 1617: 1616: 1613:Disambiguate 1611: 1609: 1608: 1604: 1600: 1595: 1594: 1592: 1591: 1587: 1584: 1579: 1571: 1569: 1564: 1556: 1554: 1553: 1550:Disambiguate 1548: 1546: 1544: 1540: 1535: 1534: 1532: 1531: 1525: 1524: 1517: 1509: 1507: 1502: 1494: 1492: 1491: 1488:Disambiguate 1486: 1484: 1483: 1479: 1475: 1470: 1469: 1468: 1463: 1458: 1450: 1448: 1443: 1435: 1433: 1432: 1429:Disambiguate 1427: 1425: 1424: 1420: 1416: 1411: 1410: 1409: 1403: 1398: 1390: 1388: 1383: 1375: 1373: 1372: 1369:Disambiguate 1367: 1364: 1363: 1358: 1357: 1353: 1348: 1347: 1343: 1341: 1339: 1335: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1319: 1314: 1301: 1297: 1293: 1288: 1287: 1286: 1282: 1278: 1274: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1264: 1260: 1256: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1246: 1242: 1238: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1223: 1222: 1221: 1217: 1213: 1209: 1195: 1191: 1187: 1183: 1182: 1181: 1177: 1173: 1169: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1159: 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