1080:âThe meaning of the word sevdah in the Turkish language denotes amorous yearning and ecstasy of love, and has its origin in the Arabic expression âsĂ€wdĂąâ, which encompasses and specifies the term âblack gallâ. Namely, ancient Arabic and Greek doctors believed that the black gall, as one of the four basic substances in the human body, affects our emotional life and provokes a melancholic and irritable mood. There from derives the expression in the Greek language âmelancholyâ with a figurative meaning of the direct projection of its basic meaning: melan hĂŽlos â black gall. Since it is love itself that causes the same mood, in the Turkish language these terms were brought into a close link with the semantic identity, accomplishing a conceptual result of a dual projection of the basic meaning. Linking these two meanings has opened the process of a poetic transfer of symbolic and emotional qualities from one term to another. This resulted in the birth of a new term related to specific lyrical and psychological features. In our society, the feeling of love expressed by the word âsevdahâ, retaining the basic tone of its emotional commitment has got a melancholic notion of the Slavic-Bogomilian transience of space and time. In essence, our sevdah is both, the passionate and painful longing for love, as well as the melancholic and sweet one, the feeling when you are incapable of enduring the pain caused by love, and the pain transforms into the ecstasy of the intoxication of love that compares to the slow process of dying.
671:
article, it says that "Saudade is the love that remains", but I think that saudade is the love that lingers from past to the future. I think also you can never translate the word "saudade", because it is a feeling that is rooted in the deepest place of our soul and has different meanings for each person. Trying to translate a feeling that is the result of a collective experience, of the
Portuguese people in this case, will never work. The English never felt the Reconquista, the Romanians never felt the maritime expansion, the Japanese never felt the disappearance of King D. Sebastiao in the Alcacer Quibir battle, and the loss of independence, and so on. So, we can only try to translate with the words that each language has, trying tho give the feeling that the word gives to us.
789:"Another permanent source of saudades for the Brazilians is the hugeness of the country itself, which in the past caused most people to feel alone almost everywhere." This is really so unencyclopedic that I'm surprised it's lasted very long here. "Most people" had a feeling of being along "almost everywhere"? Please. And the idea that the mere size of a country immediately and constantly affects how people think is also very unlikely. People feel crowded or abandoned or isolated not because of a nation's borders but because of the relative proximity of people near them. People in Sao Paulo do not, because of the greater size of the country, feel appreciably less crowded than those, say, in Guatemala City.
2295:
1071:
place belongs to the traditional
Bosnian music form "sevdah". Although it is reliably known that the sevdah originated after the Turks came to medieval Bosnia, nobody has been able to determine exactly when this was. The word sevdah itself is open to several interpretations. The most accurate explanation is that is an Arabic word "sÀwdù", which means love, desire or ecstasy. In an attempt to establish the meaning of the word sevdah, people went back to the old age when the Arabic word "sevdah (sÀwdù)" was used by physicians to describe black gall, a substance which circulates through human organism that control feelings and emotions.
1435:
get easily stuck...and a wordy translation....and here is a perfect example where the meaning of the two words...is simply...exactly... identical. I grew up in Bosnia...and from a young age...lived a long time in Brazil...and only recently (after reading countless
Brazilian commentaries about the uniqueness of "saudade" and its obscure etymology) it donned on me....that Sevdah=Saudade...and that the Bosnian version of Fado...is also called Sevdah....and really...the two musical traditions are so similar...although their places of origin are so geographically removed.
1391:--In addition to what was written here i would also like to point out that when it is said that the word " saudade" is "untraslatable" they refer more to it as the feeling, state of mind and not as the word itself, it's the same with the Romanian "dor", these two words mean exactly the same thing; and in Romania also, it is believed that is an untraslatable word, the fact is that the word can be translated into another language what is more difficult to explain is the emotional state that the person experiences, as the word involves a complexity of emotions.
1108:(alemĂŁo). No idioma inglĂȘs encontramos vĂĄrias tentativas: homesickness (equivalente a saudade de casa ou do paĂs), longing e to miss (sentir falta de uma pessoa), e nostalgia (nostalgia do passado, da infĂąncia). Mas todas essas expressĂ”es estrangeiras nĂŁo definem o que sentimos. SĂŁo apenas tentativas de determinar esse sentimento que nĂłs mesmos nĂŁo sabemos exatamente o que Ă©. NĂŁo Ă© sĂł um obstĂĄculo ou uma incompatibilidade da linguagem, mas Ă© principalmente uma caracterĂstica cultural daqueles que falam a lĂngua portuguesa.
98:
77:
586:
415:
394:
524:
108:
909:
majority of contexts it's a 1 to 1 translation. Sure it may not have the exact semantic domain as those words, but there is no article explaining how exceptional the word "longing" is because aside from being able to be used to say "you long for something" it also can be used to talk about the size of an object. And for good reason there is no article about that, because it's just dumb in my opinion.
606:
500:
514:
483:
46:
21:
1588:" (table or desk) as "court of law"? The fact is that in context it does happen. Some portuguese words condense several english meanings and some english words do exactly the same to portuguese meanings. Aren't we embarking here on a Estado Novo-style "portugal is the center of the world" line of thought and editing? For another "untranslatable" word try "
1845:"MY culture - with which I am intimately familiar - has a richness and a profound complexity that SIMPLY CANNOT be translated into another culture. For example, culture X, with its simplistic idea of "a", or culture Y, with its entirely trivial ideas about "b" - they simply do not encompass all that is wonderful, special, and marvellous about MY culture".
926:
heartsick connotation attached to it. Nostalgia can even be used in a positive sense, for instance "she smiled a nostalgic smile, reflecting on the past"... but saudade is almost exclusively used to express the negative aspect of this feeling. Longing for things long gone. It is closer to a melancholic longing than it is to nostalgia.
1839:
simplification to describe it as "predominantly sensuous", because it raises the question - which tango? which tango are you referring to, the turn of the century tangos, the tangos of Canaro in Paris, the blossoming in the 40's, the modern tangos, the jazz of
Piazolla - where? To where, exactly, does this gross simplication apply?
2113:
I'd like to add here shortly that there is the word 'Sauda' in Urdu, too. In Urdu the word derives from the Arabic language. It has the same meaning like the
Portuguese 'Saudade' or the word 'Sevdah' from the Balkan. So it seems quite likely that the Arabic 'Sawda' is in fact the common origin of all
2010:
The
Portuguese word âsaudadeâ is of the same family as âsaĂșdeâ, âsaudarâ, âsaudaçãoâ, deriving from the Latin âsalusâ, âsalutareâ. Kinship with other languages should have been established on that basis, as more remote connections would only be found in the Indo-European stem of âsalusâ at any rate.
1707:
Also, it against the guidelines to remove tags without fixing the problem. Editors should remember that wikipedia is an encyclopedia and has a duty to warn general readers of possible inaccuracies and
Original Research. It is very important to be responsible regarding this. It is wikipedia's article
925:
Hmmm... Nostalgia is not a very satisfying english translation for "saudade". It isn't even used in the same way, maybe not even in the same context. For instance, one does not say "i have nostalgia" for this or that, like one would say "tenho saudade" for this or that. It also does not have the same
2048:
It is very frustrating that the article - and especially the origins section - makes no mention of etymology. Could someone familiar with reliable sources on
Portugese etymology put in an appropriately cited reference? If there's an academic controversy over Latin vs. Arabic origins (as seems likely
1956:
It is not true. I am
Romanian, I can certify, along with my fellow country men above, that Dor is one the trickiest and untranslatable words in Romania. There have been books written on this subject since Lucian Blaga until today (Suffice to say that "gossamer pain" has no meaning in english, yet it
1793:
We are told in the article that «"saudade" is untranslatable in any other language» and later that «Saudade is said to be the only exact equivalent of the Welsh hiraeth and the
Cornish hireth», not to mention that it technically _is_ translatable to Esperanto (and by extention I'd guess in Ido too).
1615:
yeah, I'm a brasilian and I do agree that "saudade" is often used with more positive meanings than what the article seems to focus on, perhaps this alternate (and I guess more popular) meaning for it here in Brasil is mroe or less what the article described, but instead of saying it is feeling about
1167:
As per my comments above, I also raised the questions about "sehnsucht" and "longing". However, "longing" is not as abstract as saudade. Yearning could be (coult it?) but it is a verb, not a substantinve. But Sensucht (german), might be as good as saudade. But my german is not good enough to comment
1031:
Perhaps in Portugal it is different (in Galicia the word is used sparingly), but in Brazil the word is used so much that it is practically meaningless. I've heard people say they have "saudades" of a sandwich they haven't had in a long time. At this point in the Portuguese language, it just means to
991:
As a native speaker yes, you can refer to "saudade" in antecipation, indeed you can say that you are already feeling "saudade" for someone that is still present but about to leave and you know will be missed, but this usually means that there is an awareness that the feeling will come once the loved
959:, but that you know will (or might?) be gone. For example a friend said she felt saudade for me because I was leaving in a few days. She didn't say that she would feel it, but she felt it already. Well, I will leave it to the experts. Portuguese is hard enough, even without "untranslatable" words. --
917:
This article was marked "Move to Wikitonary" which is not appropriate because the article had been marked as such, was nominated to VFD and then survived. Personally I think it should be transwikied, but I think that all articles about words, their translation, and entymology should be in wiktionary
1907:
In Etymology chapter I have added the short explanation of the word "sevdah" which has the same meaning in languages of former Yugoslavia as saudade has in Portugese. It is known that music of Iberian Sephards influenced sevdah a lot but that word existed before the Big migration of Jews from Spain
1629:
Saudade is not hard to translate: all that happens is that it has a different idiomatic use in portuguese. It is just like translating the verb "gustar" from Spanish. "Me gustan las hamburguesas" translates to "I like hamburguers", but structure is rather like "Hamburguers appeal to me". Different
1434:
From Sevdah...the Bosnian Fado-type, urban love-folk musical genre... I'll cite a line of a famous song..."Od Sevdaha...umire mi dusa za tobom"....which translates exactly as: "Por causa da saudade...a minha alma morre por voce"! Try translating either sevdah...or saudade into English....and you'll
1177:
I just want to make a quick comment on the German word (I am German). "Sehnsucht" is a noun combined of "sehnen", which means "to long (for)", and "Sucht", which means "addiction". So "Sehnsucht" is a strong desire or longing for someone or something with a little touch of being almost unhealthy or
1107:
Em 30 de janeiro celebra-se o "Dia da Saudade". Na gramĂĄtica Saudade Ă© substantivo abstrato, tĂŁo abstrato que sĂł existe na lĂngua portuguesa. Os outros idiomas tĂȘm dificuldade em traduzi-la ou atribuir-lhe um significado preciso: Te extraño (castelhano), J'ai regret (francĂȘs) e Ich vermisse dish
1058:
El origen de la palabra saudade tenemos que buscar en la palabra arabe sÀwdù. En los diccionarios etimologicos de las lenguas romances de peninsula Iberica relacionan esta palabra con palabra soledad. Pienso que esto no es correcto. Po no hablar mucho les mando un trocito de texto sobre el sÀwdù
1006:
Sn0wflake's words are pretty correct (saudade by anticipation, like any other feeling by anticipation). But unfortunately there is indeed a huge amount of people who still consider themselves "proud" of having "saudade" as an alleged untranslatable word, an "authentic sign of Portuguese beautiness"
2018:
The term is both presented as untranslatable and synonymous to a number of terms in different languages, with which, in most cases, it evidently cannot bear etymological connection. In fact, the discussion on whether the term is translatable or not, would just as easily apply to countless terms in
2006:
The entry seems to include a series of attributions of a possible etymological origin, sometimes solely on the basis of homophony, which are speculative at best, and with few grounds on sound modern philology. This occurs to a degree which is surprisingly uncanny, considering that the entry itself
1960:
Dor encompasses feelings such as wanderlust, pain, longings, a distinct combination of both positive and negative, intertwined longings about the future, the present and the past, missing someone, something, wishing for a utopian future, etc; it is at least as complex if not more encompassing than
1560:
The 'Translation in Italian' section ( "Saudade can be translated with malinconia romantica...") makes absolutely no sense to me. If this were true saudade could be translated in many languages with things similar to 'romantic melancholy'. And then there would be no reason why Italian would have a
1442:
Yes...I spent the most painful moments of the war in Bosnia...crying alone and singing Sevdah....in the shower. Just like Fado...it can help heal the soul! Whenever we party...and someone makes a request "Daj nesto za dusu"...(Give us something for the soul)...that is understood as a request for a
1404:
I would suggest that saudade comes from Arabic sawda with the same meaning. In the Balkans, word sevdah means the same. Like in Portugal, it is expressed through a particular music genre, also called sevdah. For me personally, it is interesting that both in Portugal and in Bosnia, people generally
1020:
Saudade is not merely a "feeling of separation", but the feeling that the past was better and is now impossible to recover (or at the very least, difficult). Like the ancient greeks longing for a "Golden Age" or the muslims referring to the time of Muhammad as the 'plenitude of times'. The concept
1394:
And so that we can be more clear, regarding to the above comment, the word "dor" can be related to "pain" although it has a closer meaning to " hurt", but when refered to " dor" as a noun, it has the exact same meaning with " saudade"Â ; "doare" is a verb, comes from "a durea"= "to hurt"(and it is
1367:
I'd just like to draw the attention to possible editors of this page that what the Portuguese or students of Portuguese language and culture claim about the word "saudade" is actually correspondent to the word "dor" in Romanian, a very close Romance language. Although "dor" in PT is equivalent to
1092:
I'm 75% sure that is of erudite origin, that is, it is a word created by poets derived directly from Classic Latin, rather than of popular evolution. I don't know for sure, but I remember something like that (the mind plays tricks), but it is Latin for sure; Arabic influence in Portuguese is half
1070:
To millions of people in the world, Bosnia and Herzegovina is known only for horrible news on violence, ethnical cleansing and war. The recent war has completely overshadowed the very rich and unique cultural tradition of Bosnia and Herzegovina. In the cultural heritage of this country, a special
284:
the same in all regions, and should be sublisted separately in each region: intermunicipal entities are sometimes larger and split by subregions (e.g. the Metropolitan Area of Lisbon has two subregions), some intercommunal entities are containing only parts of subregions. All subregions should be
2026:
Given the variety of possible translations in different languages, the entry should then have included especially the German term âSehnsuchtâ, with which âsaudadeâ is not only synonymous, but also shares the same syntactical elements. Where âSehnsuchtâ calls for the preposition ânachâ, âsaudadeâ
1929:
Don't worry, I'm Romanian, we also have a words at least as emcompassing as Saudade, if not more, Dor, and they refuse to acknowledge it. This is what Western nationalist scholars are used to to. to completely and blatantly disregard anything outside the West. They simply don't acknowledge our
1766:
I am so glad to have at last read an individual's complete thread before sanitation by "jobsworth" editors completely "dullifies" it! I know, POV and unsourced blah blab, but all that depresses me! Pinch of salt all that is needed and anyway, you can't totally trust this encyclopaedia anyway!
1579:
Does anyone know of any research that can back this up? Because I'm absolutely sure this is true, and this article puts the word in a light I always considered overly poetic. "To Morrendo de Saudades" isn't always, to me, suggesting a person you'll never see again. Kyle543 10:42, 24 January 2007
996:
I am Brazilian and can assure you that Sn0wflake' theory is correct. BTW, very few people in Brazil think of "saudade" as an untranslatable word, this was something literary critics sort of invented in the XIX century. As a translator myself I can assure that very few words, except most concrete
2022:
A similar argument could be made with regard to finding a synonymous in the Portuguese language itself, or any other language, since âperfectâ synonymi can never be found. The emphasis on untranslatability seems therefore to indicate a proported exclusiveness, not only of the term, but also and
1949:
I would like, for the third time in this talk page, to bring up the fact that Dor is not under any circumstances encompassing less that the word Saudade, as it is wrongly claimed in the article, with no references. O have added a cite reference tag to the claim, if no one will cite at least one
908:
Yes this seems like one of those urban myths, or legends that apparently people get carried over that "suadade" is somehow unique. I'm fluent in the language and "saudade" means the exact same as "missing" or "longing" (like in "I miss the good ol' days"), as "extrañar" or "añorar" in the vast
712:
music). Also worth noting is the ambivalence of some Portuguese people towards the concept, in part due to its perceived pessimism and its association with a certain post-imperialist, post-colonialist sense of longing. I'll attend to this in the future, once I look into facts and specifics.
670:
I, as a native Portuguese citizen, think that the word "saudade" is very tricky to translate. Don't you agree that, sometimes, you have "saudades" for a person that is right in front of you? And which language has a word or expression of loss for a person that is right in front of you? In the
1838:
However, the half of this sentence after the comma, could only be written by someone who is not familiar with the richness of the 120+ year tradition of Argentine tango, which is varied and includes strains from Africa, Europe, the Americas, Russia, and beyond. It is, frankly, a ridiculous
1438:
And...we also sing Sevdah...when "estamos com saudade...de alguem...alguma coisa...algum lugar...para matar a tristeza...aliviar a dor"...etc. This word is rarely used in everyday vernacular...for our language has been "cleansed" of a lot of words of Arabic-Turkish-Persian origin...yet it
1575:
I don't know of any non-original research, but this article seems to focus very narrowly on the concept. In Brazil, at the very least, Saudade can have positive connotations. It sort of suggests that you have a place in the world, and you're only away from it temporarily, or something.
980:
I'm fluent in PT-BR and I can assure you that the current way the explanation is worded is fairly accurate. What your friend probably meant is that she was feeling saudade by anticipation; that she knew she would miss you once you were gone, and was already experiencing the feeling.
2370:
I don't feel qualified to edit this article, but I can't help but be frustrated by the paragraph about Galicia. It fails to mention the Galacian language, which is more closely related to Portuguese than Spanish. Surely that's worth mentioning in an article about a Portuguese word?
720:
Brief note: On the contrary of what s said before, "Saudade" in "Tenho saudades tuas" meaning "I miss you", meaning missing a person is not only used in Brazilian Portuguese but also (very frequently) in standard Portuguese in the same way, exactly with the same sense.
1439:
remains...very present...in this musical genre...and the word appears quite often in many of the lyrics...so we know exactly what it means..and how to use it...yet to us...it feels like a linguistic (and social) anachronism...harking back to remote period in history!
1206:
Saudade is not so much untranslatable as complex in meaning; it is a combination of longing, melancholy and nostalgia; it is something that frankly has to be perceived or felt rather than described. See for example the poetry of the Galician writer Rosalia de Castro.
1711:
Especially the OR and at least some general notice that the article is largely unreferenced and unverified is in order. If the editors of this article do not replace at least some of the tags then I will have to. Please be responsible wikipedia editors. Regards,
1138:
Also, as a native speaker of Portuguese and a near-native speaker of English it is my opinion that the whole "untranslatable" deal is a myth. There are words in virtually every language to say it, like "longing" in English or better yet "Sehnsucht" in German.
896:"Melancolia, abatimento profundo de tristeza, causado pelas saudades do lar ou da pĂĄtria." (in english: sadness for being far from the homeland) Direct from portuguese dictionary. Homesickness CAN be translated as nostalgia in Portuguese. - Gustavo Fernandes
1685:
with pride. What exactly makes this word so special that makes it deserve a place in an English-language encyclopedia? (Actually, I don't think this article should be deleted. Instead, I think the hype over the word should be the main subject of it.)
1605:
This word is as "untranslatable" as many others. Nothing special about it. It may be difficult to translate (to some languages), but of course it is not untranslatable. After all, it's a feeling that, naturally, is not unique to the people that speak
2075:
I believe the link to the Hebrew page should be removed as it does not involve the portuguese word "saudade" as do the links to pages in other languages. It involves a rough translation of the word and furthermore is a tiny stub of an article.
1278:
I beg to differ as for it not being so specific or archaic. It's still in fair use, just not by the younger generations who don't know the meaning, but often come to know it. "Saudade", "nostalgia" and "banzo" are very much co-related in this
1339:
Actually, because of the mentioning of "nostalgia" in the text, I believe "banzo" should be perfectly included too, so "nostalgia" wouldn't come out as being the only variation of "saudade", a time-related one. There is also this other word,
2014:
At that level of remoteness, there would no longer be a semantic connection to the term âsaudadeâ as such, but only with its Latin root âsalusâ, the meaning of the former being significantly at variance with that of the latter.
2189:"It describes a deep emotional state of nostalgic or deeply melancholic longing for an absent something or someone that one loves. Moreover, it often carries a repressed knowledge that the object of longing will never return."
1583:
Guys, having just translated an article and feeling like some words are untranslatable I can understand the dificulty in finding a one-to-one relationiship between words of diferent languages. Who would think of translating
1387:. For me personally, it is interesting that both in Portugal and in Bosnia, people generally believe that these kinds of longing cannot be translated and thus represent the unique features of their respective cultures.
1542:"See, you are sad and happy. You don't smile but you are content. You are sad and happy at the same time. In Brazil we have a term for that - it's 'Saudade'. It's like ... melancholic, nostalgic; it's very Bossanova."
499:
1491:
nor does "whom you'll meet again in Heaven" have a positive truth value for me, I don't know how to fix it, other than to delete it. I hope someone can fix it so it it represents NPOV at a very basic, literal level.
997:
nouns, like "dog" or "brick", can be translated with exactly the same meaning so the point of saudade's untranslatability is moot, though it is relevant as central tenet of Portuguese and Brazilian "state of mind".
2258:
2250:
1616:
things that probably won't come back, say it is a feeling about things one cherish that one would like to be around more. Not sure how I coudl elaborate more to add better arguments for my point of view...--
1592:", which means both "borrowing" and "lending". Now how can that be possible? Maybe it's just the case of another word that condenses 2 english meanings. And no, I'm not trolling, just trying to keep a NPOV
289:
statistic subdivisions but real administrative entities, so they should be listed below, probably using a smaller font: we can safely eliminate the subgrouping by type of intermunicipal entity from this
1349:
I just can tell that I like this word "saudade" becouse has much explanations and is so weird. I'm from Croatia and I don't realy know what it mean, but I hope one day I'll know. Salutation. vale v:);(
874:"The word nostalgia is also present in Portuguese and means the same." No, it doesn't. Sorry for that, but it simply doesn't. Homesickness can't be translated as nostalgia in Portuguese. (Anonymous)
1681:) I just can't understand why people keep talking about it as a superspecial word. I love talking about my mother tongue (Portuguese), but it bugs me when people mention this claimed exclusivity of
2352:
1809:
Esperanto does have an exact word relative to Saudade (I was told is "Saudado"), because it explicitly borrowed the word from Portuguese. That is the benefit from being a constructed language =) --
1835:
I do not argue with the first part of this sentence; as someone who knows little about Finnish culture, I cannot speak to it one way or the other, but I am prepared to believe that it is true.
969:
I would say this is an extension of the word's usage but certainly not its meaning. It is like saying that you are hungry just from thinking that you'll have to go without eating for a day.
303:
1561:
special section. Yet the article seems to assume that saudade is not mere romantic melancholy, so the italian translation is inaccurate too. If you agree, please remove the section.
1987:
I have deleted the wondrously, tragically wrong phrases from the article. The Romanian Dor is obviously more encompassing than Saudade, as any Romance language scholar can attest.
2351:
Are you joking? Look at a map, Portugal couldn't be more Western Europe. If you mean Brazilians, then South America doesn't make sense. You can have both in the same sentence. --
2470:
2323:
longing for a beloved, and often connotes a repressed knowledge that the object of longing might never return. Once described as "the love that remains" after someone is gone,
1964:
Wanderlust, woe, ardent desire, nostalgia, missing someone, homesickness, grief, heart's desire, aspiration, utopian desire for the future, these all mean dor: just go here
837:"Untranslatable" what? Haven't you ever heard the English word "nostalgia"? The definition of nostalgia is homesickness, or a sense of longing for something past. The word
1749:
I agrre this articles has multiple cleanup issues and I have resotred the cleanup templates. Please do not remove them unless the specific cleanup issues are addressed.--
2465:
2455:
570:
1353:
That article kind of makes me proud of being a Portuguese speaker... Every time I say saudade I should think about all those people who will never be able to say it.
1255:) and I must confess I've never heard the word "banzo"Â ! Saying that "Brazil has two words for this specific emotion of longing and missing" is quite a stretch IMHO.
2390:
Is there an analogous term for this sentiment in relation to something unrequited? That is, never experienced, and nor ever will be? An absent parent, for example.
1953:
It seems that nationalism has crept into this page, unfortunately, and the Portuguese author had merely superficially flagged the Romanian "dor" as meaning pain.
2049:
considering the era it originated in and the existence of sawda which is just the Arabic translation of melancholia) then there should be a discussion of that.
2460:
1884:), and ALSO in the Portuguese dictionary. So it isn't fair to say that Saudade is like the Italian word Nostalgia. Melancolia is, simply put, melancholy (see:
576:
2169:(I kept a portrait of you, and the most beautiful saudade). There is a melancholic fondness in the lyrics. Good example on the complexity of the feeling. --
1930:
region. They find it somehow inferior. It is sad that Sevdah and Dor are supposedly less in a Portuguese's eyes, just because the words aren't portuguese.
1700:
I tagged the article as Original Research and Unreferenced. These takes were removed by an editor without fixing the problem Many editors do not know that
2294:
704:
has a rather intricate while at the same time vague description that goes beyond mere dictionary definitions, not to mention it's a crucial component of
2475:
2425:
2335:
1368:"pain" the same does not happen in Romanian which as a similar word for it "doare". Sorry not be of more help on it. Just thought you'd like to know.
595:
493:
164:
154:
2027:
calls for the preposition âdeâ. E.g. âI habe Sehnsucht nachâŠâ, and âeu tenho saudades deâŠâ â this in the absence of any shared etymological ground.
2440:
886:
As for as I know, being a native Portuguese speaker and talking to native Polish speakers, the Polish word "tÄsknota" means exactly the same thing.
853:
can be used to describe desire or despair for non-existent things. (By the way, saudade is not "untranslatable", merely difficult to translate.) --
465:
455:
213:
The airport is not listed as JoĂŁo Paulo II anywhere. The airport's own website calls itself simply Ponta Delgada, and has no mention of JoĂŁo Paulo.
31:
1832:"Ironically, the sentiment of kaiho is central to the Finnish tango, in stark contrast to the Argentine tango, which is predominantly sensuous."
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I is not a myth, it was considered as one of the hardest to translate. (note: it is not impossible to translate) Saudade is a type of longing. --
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I agree with Kyle543, saudade can have positive connotations, not only in Brazil but in Portugal and any country where Portuguese is spoken.
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The word is now archaic but was current until the early half of the XX century and appeared often in books about slavery, like Coelho Neto's
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that of Spanish, and Arabic words are always related to places(in the south), agriculture, other clafts and some other things. The Spanish
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Thought you might find this of interest. (It's on-topic and off-topic at the same time :-) ). Plus the film's enjoyable in a low-key way.
1236:. In English, words like "longing" and "nostalgia" come close sometimes, but not always, and never really hit the sentiment in the heart.
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What about the german word Sehnsucht (German for wishfulness or longing)? This is the only word I ever heard that is close to Saudade. --
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It can indeed have positive conotation. Just like "I miss dancing" translates to "Tenho saudades de dançar" without a negative meaning.
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refered to feeling and NOT causing the pain- "ma doare piciorul"="my foot hurts"; "ma dor picioarele"="my feet hurt")--anelis(romania)--
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was later expanded to include "everything and the kitchen sink" related to longing, separation, etc. Nostalgia is a type of "saudade".
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If anyone's dealt with translations before, they'll know there are far harder words to translate, such as the english word "approach".
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And THAT is exactly my point. An exercise in cultural comparisons like this always risks degenerating into precisely this dialogue:
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as they like to think of it. That same "proud" people simply can't even use the rest of the language correctly, though. (Anonymous)
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One must consider the roots and true meanings of the word, hence an original Portuguese language word shall be explained as such.
2269:. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the
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Someone wrote "it is a combination of longing, melancholy and nostalgia". Yes, but it's also a feeling of happiness. There's no
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I gave it a crack. There are many POVs running amok throughout this article (though most are quite friendly and do not bite).
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believe that these kinds of longing cannot be translated and thus represent the unique features of their respective cultures.
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is what the Portuguese author would have us translate Dor MÄrunt, a Romanian village, right? That is an absurd translation).
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or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the
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most languages, where the semantic field of this or that term is naturally at variance with that of the term in question.
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It seems to me that this needs some kind of explicit caveat or contextualization. Since I don't have a native sense of
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I'm guessing, but I wonder if this could be translated as a "feeling of separation" from someone/something? Also see:
955:. This is not entirely consistent with what several Brazilians have explained to me. They said it could also represent
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1181:"yearn" is the verb root of yearning. as an aside, english words that end in -ing are called gerunds or participles.
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in 16th century. Due to Ottoman rule in Balkans from 14th and 15th century Arabic root of this word is very certain.
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True, but the feeling of "saudade" means much, much more than just "I miss you". At least it does in Portugal. See
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953:"feeling of longing for something you are fond of, which is gone, but can eventually return in a distant future"
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Portuguese-speaking people left in search of better futures in South America, North America, and Western Europe
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1210:"I feel so much "saudade" of you" has been changed to "I feel 'saudade' for you". Now who wants to create the
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said) Ahh.. and by the way, is not an "english word" as it comes from (new) latin (ehmm... Greek/Latin). ;) --
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1059:(sevdah) que he encontrado en el internet. El significado de sÀwdù (sevdah) es casi igual que de saudade.
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and always refers to something/someone that once was or is no longer present, never to something utopical
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They are all related to something that is distant, and "saudade" is more generally used for people ("
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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without a mixture of sadness and happiness, that's the reason it's such a complicated feeling. --
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means the same. Like in Portugal, it is expressed through a particular music genre, also called
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No it is not. I am fluent in Spanish and añoranza is not the same as Saudade. This is rubbish --
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SAUDADE in Portuguese is AĂORANZA in Spanish. So this word is not that untranslatable at all!
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listed explicitly and not assume they are only intermunicipal entities (which accessorily are
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could someone who understands wikipedia better than i do please undo the deletion? thanks.
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Hardly any word in any language has exact translations; every word has its subtleties. OK,
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extreme (addictions usually are). Hope this helps! --Gunnar 21:41, 15 September 2006 (CEST)
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729:. Also, please sign your posts, or it'll become hard to keep track of who says what. --
1532:"You like my country's music, right? I can tell there is a little bit of Brazil in you."
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I have no doubt...that both sevdah and saudade are derived from the same word...Sawda!
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I was told Hebrew has a word that can almost be translated to Portuguese as "saudade".
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is policy and that any unsourced material can be removed by any editor at any time.
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True. The song Mil Pedaços (a Thousand Pieces) by Legião Urbana, Renato Russo sings
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We also have nostalgia in Portuguese, and it doesn't mean the same as "Saudade" (as
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This article was proposed for deletion January 2005. The discussion is archived at
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The word "Saudade" in Portuguese has the same meaning as the word "dor" in Romanian
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In reference to the Finnish idea of kaiho: I would like to quote from the article:
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280:: statistical (NUTS3) subregions and intercommunal entities are confused; they are
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now refers to a sense that someone or something that should be present is missing.
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so you know I'm not making it up. I'm researching articles as we speak.
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and wikipedia's credibility rests on being honest about article quality.
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The loved ones who are dead (whom you'll meet again in Heaven, of course)
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especially the concept, failing to establish a neutral point of view.
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http://en.bab.la/dictionary/romanian-english/dor-n%C4%83zuin%C5%A3%C4%83
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Saudade is one of the central themes in the 1998 indie romantic comedy
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Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that
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scholarly article which claims this, I will personally delete it.
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Original Research, Lack of Citations, and Maybe a Bit of Silliness
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one has left, not literaly that you are already feeling it. ines
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File:Almeida JĂșnior - Saudade (Longing) - Google Art Project.jpg
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File:Almeida JĂșnior - Saudade (Longing) - Google Art Project.jpg
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appears to have been authored by more than one native speaker.
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So why should we believe you? On whose authority do you speak?
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http://linguistics.ucdavis.edu/FacultyPages/pfarrell/Saudade.pdf
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http://www.priberam.pt/dlpo/definir_resultados.aspx?pal=saudade
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Romanian: mi-e dor de tine Portuguese: Eu tenho saudades de ti
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on February 14, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at
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may have more subtleties than the average Portuguese word...
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is the Spanish translation, and the Real Academia Española
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This can definitely be expanded into a Knowledge article.
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http://www.mostarsevdahreunion.com/Color/aboutsevdah.htm
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PS I have raised this issue on the Hebrew page aswell.
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Romanian: dor de casÄ Portuguese: Saudades de casa --
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Francisco Xavier B Fernandes guerreiro_da_luz@sapo.pt
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Removing of Original Research and Unreferenced article
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culture (its most notable expression perhaps found in
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/melancholy
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I am a native speaker of Brazilian Portuguese (from
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nostalgia
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http://www.spectrumgothic.com.br/gothic/saudade.htm
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841:is also present in Portuguese and means the same.
763:. I've applied the changes, with the reference. --
659:I sense Brazillian influences over the article...
644:Being a native Portuguese speaker, I reckon that "
575:This article has not yet received a rating on the
2303:, an oil on canvas painting completed in 1899 by
1880:Nostalia exists in the English dictionary (see:
918:no wikipedia. However, I am but one lone voice.
2167:guardo um retrato teu, e a saudade mais bonita
1657:(And, anyway, it's fairly accurate to say that
1409:That's curious, but it's generally agreed that
1731:I notice that there are POV concerns as well.
1330:"), or your pet or even more mundane stuff ("
1158:i agree...i think "yearning for" also works.
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2386:Analogous Term for the Unrequited Experience
1379:with the same meaning. In the Balkans, word
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1332:I miss my old car, the one they took away
948:Longing for something which is still here
1825:This is why this article is problematic:
1645:Reason for the existence of this article
2466:Applied Linguistics Task Force articles
2456:Unknown-importance Linguistics articles
2353:2001:16B8:3124:F900:9C65:7150:F98C:422F
1453:please do not delete talk page comments
1363:Portuguese "Saudade" and Romanian "Dor"
1232:Every language has a few "almosts" for
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1945:Romanian Dor versus Portuguese Saudade
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2208:Is similar, but brings more sadness.
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2461:B-Class applied linguistics articles
2315:refers to a deep emotional state of
823:Knowledge:Votes for deletion/Saudade
813:(I'm still learning the rules, heh)
535:This article is within the scope of
420:This article is within the scope of
217:Improve key articles to Good article
119:This article is within the scope of
1328:I'm at war, I miss my wife and kids
957:longing for something still present
62:It is of interest to the following
1131:"I feel so much "saudade" of you".
1054:hipotesis: saudade derive de sÀwdù
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1630:idiomatic use, easy translation.
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1675:Sinto saudade daqueles tempos.
1097:is not the same as Portuguese
596:Applied Linguistics Task Force
139:Knowledge:WikiProject Portugal
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2366:Galicia and Galacian Language
2331:JosĂ© Ferraz de Almeida JĂșnior
2305:JosĂ© Ferraz de Almeida JĂșnior
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593:This article is supported by
549:and see a list of open tasks.
440:Knowledge:WikiProject Galicia
434:and see a list of open tasks.
142:Template:WikiProject Portugal
133:and see a list of open tasks.
30:on 2005-01-03. The result of
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1961:even the German sehnsucht.
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1298:Remember when we used to...?
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443:Template:WikiProject Galicia
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269:Category:History of Portugal
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1467:Done. Did I get verything?
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717:08:48, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC).
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1667:Tenho saudades de ti/vocĂȘ.
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1315:I'd like to be home now...
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650:heads only toward the past
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2340:More featured pictures...
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2002:Etymology and translation
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1519:Next Stop Wonderland
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2289:Picture of the day
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1874:
1826:
1823:
1822:
1821:
1796:85.138.186.123
1790:
1789:I don't get it
1787:
1764:
1763:
1762:
1761:
1697:
1694:
1661:translates as
1646:
1643:
1637:200.158.99.233
1624:
1600:
1572:
1569:
1557:
1554:
1544:
1543:
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1534:
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1396:
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1364:
1361:
1355:201.21.126.147
1346:
1343:
1342:
1341:
1340:space-related.
1336:
1335:
1323:
1322:
1302:
1301:
1294:Good times!...
1281:
1280:
1248:
1245:
1244:
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1193:
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1189:
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817:vfd discussion
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781:
780:
779:
739:
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735:
734:
697:
694:
682:89.152.148.160
641:
640:Wrong meanings
638:
635:
634:
631:
630:
627:
626:
611:
601:
600:
591:
581:
580:
573:
567:
566:
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547:the discussion
534:
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486:
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462:Mid-importance
458:
452:
451:
449:
432:the discussion
418:
406:
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403:Midâimportance
397:
385:
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372:Edit this list
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36:
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32:the discussion
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2264:
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2252:
2249:
2243:
2239:
2235:
2234:Erick Soares3
2231:
2226:
2225:124.148.123.9
2221:
2220:
2219:
2215:
2211:
2210:Erick Soares3
2207:
2206:
2205:
2203:
2199:
2195:
2194:124.148.123.9
2190:
2184:
2180:
2176:
2172:
2168:
2164:
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2161:
2157:
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2149:
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2057:79.170.52.174
2054:
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2032:
2024:
2020:
2016:
2012:
2008:
2001:
1999:
1998:
1994:
1990:
1989:89.136.167.81
1982:
1980:
1979:
1975:
1971:
1970:89.136.167.81
1967:
1962:
1958:
1954:
1951:
1944:
1942:
1941:
1937:
1933:
1932:89.136.167.81
1924:
1922:
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1775:86.175.180.89
1772:
1760:
1756:
1752:
1751:Gavin Collins
1748:
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1612:
1609:
1606:Portuguese.--
1603:
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1324:
1320:
1319:I miss Greece
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961:Jens Schriver
958:
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25:
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18:
17:
2392:â Preceding
2389:
2369:
2350:
2324:
2319:or profound
2309:
2308:
2300:
2256:
2191:
2188:
2166:
2147:
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2117:â Preceding
2112:
2096:31.51.149.58
2094:
2091:
2080:31.51.149.58
2078:
2074:
2051:â Preceding
2047:
2035:94.170.99.72
2029:â Preceding
2025:
2021:
2017:
2013:
2009:
2005:
1986:
1963:
1959:
1955:
1952:
1948:
1928:
1910:
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1857:Mateomateo71
1847:
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1589:
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1488:
1486:
1456:
1443:Sevdah song!
1441:
1437:
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1410:
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1384:
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1310:
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1297:
1293:
1289:
1288:(related to
1285:
1265:
1263:
1250:
1233:
1227:
1209:
1205:
1144:Kripkenstein
1141:
1137:
1134:
1130:
1127:
1106:
1104:
1098:
1094:
1082:
1079:
1073:
1069:
1062:
1061:
1057:
1034:â Preceding
1030:
1012:
990:
956:
952:
951:
934:68.53.137.84
928:â Preceding
924:
920:Kevin Rector
916:
907:
850:
846:
842:
838:
836:
820:
808:
805:
802:
788:
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741:
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216:
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160:
120:
64:WikiProjects
2321:melancholic
1851:âPreceding
1769:âPreceding
1671:I miss you.
1504:Morganfitzp
1469:Morganfitzp
1311:mother land
1238:Morganfitzp
1216:Morganfitzp
1214:article? â
1168:on that. --
791:Interlingua
761:confirms it
676:âPreceding
552:Linguistics
543:linguistics
489:Linguistics
322:Need images
241:Os LusĂadas
2415:Categories
2329:Painting:
2204:Harlequin
1688:Eumedemito
1618:TiagoTiago
1537:"Oh yeah?"
1526:Hope Davis
1459:Streamless
1212:Portuglish
1183:Streamless
1160:Streamless
1063:Aqui esta
706:Portuguese
625:parameter.
2317:nostalgic
2271:Main Page
1608:Francisco
1590:emprestar
1415:solitatem
1309:(mostly,
1253:SĂŁo Paulo
1110:in here:
983:Sn0wflake
847:nostalgia
839:nostalgia
755:I agree,
34:was keep.
2394:unsigned
2171:Pinnecco
2131:contribs
2119:unsigned
2053:unsigned
2031:unsigned
1983:Deletion
1890:Pinnecco
1865:contribs
1853:unsigned
1811:Pinnecco
1771:unsigned
1735:Mattisse
1716:Mattisse
1655:so what?
1571:Troubles
1478:Examples
1345:Comments
1270:jggouvea
1170:Pinnecco
1036:unsigned
1023:jggouvea
999:jggouvea
930:unsigned
879:Pinnecco
867:Pinnecco
799:Romanian
757:añoranza
748:Pinnecco
738:AĂORANZA
678:unsigned
297:Requests
223:Portugal
136:Portugal
127:Portugal
83:Portugal
28:deletion
2336:Archive
2325:saudade
2311:saudade
2301:Saudade
2148:saudade
2123:C Nocon
1912:RacoYes
1683:saudade
1663:to miss
1651:saudade
1489:saudade
1423:FilipeS
1419:soledad
1411:saudade
1373:saudade
1234:saudade
1099:saudade
1095:soledad
851:saudade
843:Saudade
702:Saudade
646:Saudade
464:on the
437:Galicia
428:Galicia
400:Galicia
255:More...
234:Improve
190:history
163:on the
54:B-class
2230:Eunoia
1925:Indeed
1903:Sevdah
1580:(UTC)
1563:Junuxx
1385:sevdah
1381:sevdah
1317:" or "
1296:" or "
1257:Mbruno
1224:Hebrew
893:Radek
863:Goblin
855:Goblin
827:Joyous
811:M.Lira
766:Langus
731:Goblin
715:Goblin
666:Amorim
623:|auto=
344:Wikify
310:Assess
262:Review
228:Lisbon
60:scale.
2185:So...
1888:). --
1494:Nohat
1445:Gospe
1377:sawda
1307:place
1266:Banzo
1198:Pedro
1129:: -->
1128:: -->
1116:Pedro
1074:Otro
617:by a
354:Vote:
290:box).
200:purge
195:watch
2402:talk
2377:talk
2357:talk
2279:talk
2273:. â
2238:talk
2214:talk
2198:talk
2175:talk
2156:talk
2127:talk
2100:talk
2084:talk
2061:talk
2039:talk
1993:talk
1974:talk
1936:talk
1916:talk
1894:talk
1861:talk
1815:talk
1800:talk
1779:talk
1755:talk
1741:Talk
1722:Talk
1702:WP:V
1594:Galf
1586:Mesa
1548:Dugo
1290:time
1286:when
1279:way:
1044:talk
971:Rauh
938:talk
727:this
710:fado
686:talk
656:...
302:See
185:edit
1665:--
1334:").
825:.
619:bot
571:???
456:Mid
287:not
282:not
155:Mid
2417::
2404:)
2379:)
2359:)
2338:â
2281:)
2240:)
2216:)
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2177:)
2158:)
2133:)
2129:âą
2102:)
2086:)
2063:)
2041:)
1995:)
1976:)
1938:)
1918:)
1896:)
1867:)
1863:âą
1817:)
1802:)
1781:)
1757:)
1743:)
1724:)
1677:=
1673:;
1669:=
1521:.
1421:.
1046:)
981:--
940:)
713:--
688:)
648:"
492::
370:â
2400:(
2375:(
2355:(
2277:(
2236:(
2227::
2223:@
2212:(
2196:(
2173:(
2154:(
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2082:(
2059:(
2037:(
1991:(
1972:(
1934:(
1914:(
1892:(
1859:(
1813:(
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1584:"
1300:"
1152:Îș
1149:Ï
1114:-
1101:.
1042:(
936:(
774:)
772:t
770:(
684:(
599:.
579:.
468:.
167:.
66::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
