Talk:Scottish Gaelic/Archive 4

1751:. His map of the 1400-1500 period shows the various approximations of the Gaelic speaking area in the period and while this map is not identical to either, it's not wildly out of order either. Most of the disagreement seems to be around the in/exclusion of the "band" across Dumbarton-Stirling-Fife-Perth-Upland Abers-Nairn. I think two things are useful to note - Gaelic speaking isn't meant to mean 100% Gaelic speaking but "spoken by a % of the population". The second thing is that when we look at the first reliable "figures" (church records which state in which parishes ministers preached/had to preach in Gaelic), the data from the 1680s tells us that taking Angus for example, Lochlee, Lethnot, Navar, Glenisla, Strathardle, and Alyth are listed as "Gaelic" from a preaching point of view. If there were sufficient Gaelic speakers in Angus in the 1680s to require that, then it's highly unlikely that those areas weren't Gaelic speaking in 1400/1500. In Perthshire, Strathearn for example is still listed as 1806:. Neither Nicholson (for 1400s), Loch (~1500) or Smout ("Medieval") stretch the Gaelic speaking area to the coastal parishes. Loch's line is the furthest east, starting at Perth and more or less running a parallel course to the coast roughly as far east as Brechin, Laurencekirk, Methlick, Aberchirder up to the Moray Firth at Forres. 1705 has 6 Gaelic parishes in "Kincardina, Alford Fordice", 2 3/4 in Meigle and Forfar, 24 in Murray, and "parishes bordering ye Highlands" in Brechin, , Head of Soarn and Panadyce. I think unless someone digs up some really ancient manuscripts, we're left with the general view that Gaelic had it's maximum extent (with local Gaelic speakers, even if not necessarily solidly Gaelic speaking) down to the coastal plains around 11 cent and then fairly rapidly retreating from those "mixed" areas. 1550:(a linguistic map). After all, the western isles are already labelled "Norse-Gaels"! In some coastal areas, especially towns, of Ireland on the opposite side, Norse may still have been spoken, too. I don't think that the areas in question were already all fully Gaelicised by the early 12th century – certainly what I've read does not suggest that. (According to my notes, Adolf Noreen does admittedly claim that Norse was spoken on Man only until about 1050, but Einar Haugen writes it survived until the 14th century. Noreen states that Norse was spoken in Ireland until about 1250 and Haugen says until the 13th century, so they agree in this case at least.) -- 2548:

original ref/mention of MacBain was made, years ago, at the foot of the section, and probably implying that the entire section as it was then was sourced from it. Though the ref is now formatted correctly and with the evolution of the section it isn't clear which parts of the section are covered by the ref and it possibly implies it is only the preceding sentence or maybe paragraph. Is anyone, possibly @Stoorybrig, able to sift through the section and find which parts of its content are supported by MacBain and which not? I'm afraid I get errors if I try to search in

2233:

linked above. The 1500 map is much wronger than the 1400 map, since we know for a fact that Gaelic was still spoken in northern Carrick in c. 1600 and in places like Kirriemuir and Dunnichen in Angus, Dunkeld in Stormont, and so forth, even in the 18th century. I repeat my preference for a transitional colour. I suspect a linguistic line going through Scotland is precisely NOT what was happening in the late middle ages; places like Buchan, Fife and Nithsdale must have had both languages just like the Hebrides in the 20th century, or Atholl in the 19th.

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was exhaustive, it would be the length of several books, and would hardly be suitable for wikipedia. Taking a list of differences and finding a weighting for each difference that gives a sum "difficulty" would be very difficult indeed, and as others have said, there is no objective standard to judge against. Furthermore, difficulties are often the teacher's fault, not the language's, so it would never really be correct anyway. :-)

1157:...? The attributive noun (or as I learnt it the "classifier" noun) isn't some crazy neologism, it's a direct descendant of the classical genitive, but with its inflection lost. If you're into the preservation of traditional language, then "UK Government" is actually the best term, rather than these newfangled adjectival constructions, or the bastard "of" -- after all, "of" is used to denote a quantity, right? A pound 137: 2321: 2312: 2213: 2204: 1879: 1887: 1829: 2252:

a Professor of Scottish Medieval History (read for his undergraduate degree at Edinburgh and his Phd/DPhil at Oxford University, lecturer at Edinburgh University, Chair at Guelph) and the work in question is Volume II of the Edinburgh History of Scotland. Whether we share his interpretation or not, it would be hard to argue that it is not a reliable source as demanded by

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expense of their native toungues. The countries that participated in the Hansiatic league for example,didn't become German speaking, the Baltic States and Finland aren't Swedish or Russian speaking and the norman influence in Wales and Ireland didn't erode their languages (offcourse it did but that was centuries later) But why was Scotland different?

2159:

zones. Not even an early modernist would believe Gaelic unspoken in eastern Sutherland! The Ross map is not perfect, but the only academic map available relating to 1400 is very similar (the Loch map), but includes Fife in Gaeldom (it was clearly spoken in Fife c. 1400, but English was probably more prevalent, certainly in eastern Fife).

2547:

section. @Stoorybrig had been making some edits regarding the non-Gaelic forms of the loan words and I have been discussing (at my talk page) with them as to whether these additions are sourced from MacBain or otherwise. Overall, the content of this section has been edited quite extensively since the

2490:

is better. I do agree it is inaccurate to depict Eastern Ross and eastern Sutherland as non-Gaelic speaking (indeed there is still as surviving local dialect in the latter). Incidentally, 'Scots' was used throughout the Highlands in 1500, but that does not mean locals didn't speak Gaelic. The two are

2251:

Nicholson is preferable to Ross. I hate to appeal to authority but unless I'm mistaken, David Ross was not an academic. Rather he was an enthusiastic writer of books about his trips round Scotland on a motorbike visiting places connected to William Wallace, etc. Ranald Nicholson on the other hand was

2098:

The map you linked to is actually the map I was attempting to reproduce, with the dashed line being Nicholson's map, the dotted line Smout's and the alternate dot and dashed line Loch's. Any difference between the two are entirely due to my own (lack of) skill level. I invite you to try for yourself.

1006:

I really do despair. "UK Government"? Really? "UK" is not an adjective, it's a noun. The term for something "of the United Kingdom" is British, just as "of Spain" is Spanish, "of the Netherlands" is Dutch, etc. Or fuck it, let's just do away with all demonyms altogether, shall we? Johan Cruyff can be

205:

If you can find sources to verify this then you can go ahead and add something about it. However I doubt that it is difficult for everyone who is a native english speaker to learn Gaelic. I'm a native English speaker and I've found it relatively easy so far. There may be a point for how different the

410:

It's not the generally accepted theory. Not amongst historians anyway. It's a completely ridiculous theory with no basis in historical or archaeological evidence. Sadly a creationist myth, fostered in the middle ages by Scottish kings to create closer ties with Ireland has become accepted historical

225:

Yes, and it would have to be a very serious linguistic source, because this is the kind of thing which people with no linguistic competence like to sound off about, especially after the third beer. You will certainly find journalistic sources, and they won't do. Personally, I doubt that any language

2193:

Ross is not an academic source and is patently incorrect due to the lowland Angus/Mearns issue. Smout is, as you say, not a map of linguistic divide. The problem with Loch is Fife. The problem with Nicholson (not Nicolaisen) is he has exaggerated the level of incursion of English by 1400. How about

929:

Sorry, you're wrong on this. The name is originally Norse, not Irish. The original form has an M -- the lenition in the Scottish Gaelic was introduced by a process of assimilation and naturalisation (in the older Celtic tongues, lenition was a simple consequence of a consonant falling between two

260:

If you look at the article on any other language, you'll find that this information isn't listed there either. You could make a list of differences between language pairs, but if it wasn't exhaustive then it wouldn't be indicative of the full difficulty or otherwise of a given language. But if it

2429:

The Nicholson map seems fairly confusing, it suggests that Scots is the dominant language in parts of Sutherland, Rossshire and the Inverness area by the 15th century, although almost all sources point to the late 19th century as the transition period away from Gaelic? Especially in relation to a

2232:

But the left is an estimate for 1400, the right map is one for 1500. I think putting the left map next to Ross should be sufficient to illustrate controversy about Fife and Angus & Mearns. Alternatively, you could put the 1400 and 1500 maps next to each other in the correct order per the Atlas

2288:

I agree that Ross doesn't come with the same general authority, but Ross's place-name work means he is probably more familiar with the linguistic evidence. We don't have to agree on that however, and others can have their say. In the mean time could you put the 1400 and 1500 maps with the correct

2075:

The new Nicolaisen map is very inaccurate. Even for Nicolaisen, who argues that Gaelic was still the main language of Aberdeenshire c. 1500, and would hardly have it almost expunged from the shire in 1400! The map expunges Gaelic from Dunbartsonshire, Ayrshire, Angus, Easter Ross, Moray, southern

718:

One other thought occurs to me -- it is ironic that prescriptivists fight so hard to preserve this double negative, when its death is a direct result of the self-same prescriptivists banning English's other historical double (and multiple) negatives -- I ain't never gone nowhere to say nothing to

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I'm sorry I was of the understanding that speakers of certain tongues could find it difficult to learn others. Is Japanese not incredibly difficult (compared to certain languages) for non-Japanese speakers to learn (especially speakers of Germanic/Romance languages) ? Scottish Gaelic could have a

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I think what it means is that English is the de facto official language (i.e. by default of being the majority/government language) but that no law was ever passed making English the official language. The Welsh Language Act on the other hand was an act of law which elevated Welsh to an official

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Whether this is one or not, there are doubtless thousands of long-term errors lurking to be discovered in Knowledge. This is hardly a valid reason for retaining something. Your constant reversions of several other editors, supported by those above, is tedious and distracting from getting on with

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But why and how were the burghs able to lead to such anglicisation that even the national language was replaced as the national language and began it's decline. So many countries, like Scotland have been influenced by their neighbours (perhaps speaking more prestigious languages) but not at the

2463:

The map is correct in that eastern parts of the Black Isle spoke Scots and much of Nairn did aswell , but it also includes places such as the Tain area, Dornoch, western Black Isle (Knockbain and Kilmuir) Inverness (including Mackintosh lands), Petty etc none of which are places where Scots was

2158:

You did a good execution, but per the link above the map said to be Nicolaisen's here relates to 1500 rather than 1400. The dotted Smout line is not a linguistic map, but a physical map disowned from any linguistic associations. There is no direct connection between physical zone and linguistic

990:

I've reverted the changes from unlinked 'UK Government' to linked 'Her Majesty's Government'. There is already a link to the 'British government'. The changes made by the anon IP are spurious, and when seen together are clearly an example of british nationalism. The term 'UK Government' is used

651:

I disagree that it is "outmoded" - I use the word nor in everyday english (and I'm only 20, hardly outmoded!) Anyway, I think we've had enough of this now. "nor" seems to be the consensus. It certainly is not distracting nor a marked difference. Also, WP:RETAIN is under the heading of "national

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The reason I reverted the change is that the existing text had been in place for a year (it was initially added in early March 2011) and had gone unchallenged since then. With language you cannot argue that something is "more correct" than something else, and often there will be more than one

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The parts of Europe which participated in the Hanseatic League don't speak German Many countries that were influenced by forgeign languages didn't abandon their own languagues Wales which was under norman influence didn't have a linguistic divide at the expense of welsh like what happened in

1836:

I wouldn't say I'm particularly good with them, but I can make rudimentary maps... I managed to borrow a copy of Withers from the university library, so I've tried to redraw one of the maps based on the figure in question. I'll play about with all three and try to create a composite figure.

1440:

Well, you could argue that, but I can't see the Scottish, Welsh, N. Irish (or, heaven forbid, (Republic of) Irish!) govts calling themselves a "British government". The term "British" in modern-day English almost universally refers to the UK. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with

1126:

Well, it makes sense to everybody else, ain't dat shit rite? (oh, sowwy for þat). The Denmark Government sounds wrong, but the DK Government sounds okay. Anyway, English is not a real language; it's a norse-anglo-saxon-brythonic-gaelic-latin-norman french pidgin; that's why it's broken :p

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several times in this article and is quite common. The link to the Government of UK is already there. Check the edits of the anon IP. 'UK Government' is a common term and makes perfect sense, similar to 'US Government'. www.nationalarchives.gov.uk is known as 'UK Government Web Archive'.

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I'd never have taken you for a prescriptivist, a Mhìcheil, and the bane of every descriptivist is the overzealous editing of a minority of prescriptivists -- every day, teachers and editors take natural written English and destroy the evidence of change by imposing dead or dying rules on

1956:

I agree, on close inspection, Ross' map is problematic. What would also be good would be the 1705 map on page 56 as it's the first date with reliable data - though I would fill in the Easter and Wester Ross area in line with the 1765 map on page 70, that gap would be totally misleading.

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british government. The term 'UK Government' makes it clear it is not the government of Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland, nor the government of the Republic of Ireland, but the government of UK. Otherwise we could refer to the Danish government as the government of Scandinavia ;)

1608:

The current introduction includes the following phrase: "(The only language that is de jure official in any part of the UK is Welsh.)" Is this really true? Is not English also a de jure official language in the UK? Not trying to be funny, just wondering if this statement may need

913:

The translation of Somherligh in the article is incorrect. The Geailge consonant 'mh' is properly translated into English as a V. This man's name therefore, in English, should be Soverley or Soverled, not Somerley nor Somerled (not unlike the proper pronounciation of Samhuinn).

353:. If any genuine expert had published any peer-reviewed data on the difficulty or otherwise of the language, I'm pretty certain I'd have heard about it, and I'm 100% sure Akerbeltz would be able to tell me about it if I hadn't. The data you're looking for simply doesn't exist. 2368:

Sorry, I've not communicated well. You had the dates the wrong way around. What you've called the Nicholson map with Gaelic-less north Carrick and Easter Ross relates to 1500 and not 1400, while the Loch map with fully Gaelic Fife is meant to relate to 1400 (again, check the

2080:, though I doubt any map showing a line is accurate, since the eastern Lowland Scotland from Buchan to West Lothian was probably a linguistic transition zone rather than monolingual any way until around 1500. Perhaps a third colour indicating a transition zone is necessary. 395:

While I accept that the 4th century invasion is the generally accepted theory, it could still be better attributed, couldn't it? I've heard it claimed that the only ancient source we have is Bede's chronicles. If this is true, I would have thought it worth including.

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The same principle is true for the U.S. Government. The UK and the U.S. Governments have referred to themselves in said style for many years. There is nothing new about the term 'UK Government' or 'U.S. Government'. I voted for none of them, being Danish and all ;)

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is difficult, since any child can learn any language. But some are slightly easier for some learners in that elements of them are already familiar before they start. But quantifying that would be very difficult, and only a proper academic study would be citable. --

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information it can't be added to wikipedia. You yourself can feel free to go find a source somewhere to prove that and it can be added right away. If you find a source but you're not sure how to integrate it, just post the source here and someone will add it.

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Might I suggest adding a few lines somewhere in the article about how difficult it would be for a native English speaker to learn Scottish Gaelic. I would find that quite an interesting piece of information as I've thought a bit about learning the language.

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are not at all interchangeable. I can say "I don't have a driver's license, nor do I want one" but I cannot say "I don't have a driver's license or do I want one". I can however say "I don't have a license and I don't want one", which shows that while

685:

Well, for one thing it occurs so rarely in corpus materials that the Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English doesn't even bother to include an entry for it in its index. If you look up "or", you'll find "nor" described as its

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It really isn't worth your time. Myself, Doric Loon and Akerbeltz have all spent a lot of time working through the literature on this topic and I can tell you now that all you're going to find is opinion that will fail on grounds of the

1688:, but I have some serious concerns about its accuracy. Ross was not an academic and has ignored some basic facts we know about the spread of English into the Lowlands and the cultural divide that already existed in the 14th century. 834:

I pick and chose between prescriptivism and descriptivism as I see fit, for I'm a practical linguist. Anyway. The consensus aside that has emerged, I punched various words into the Corpus of Contemporary American English (1990-2011)

637:, "nor" indicates a "non-contrasting negative idea", "or" would indicate an "alternative item or idea". The former is the case here, the latter is not. The notion that such a commonplace word as "nor" is outmoded seems bizarre. 1704:

Two languages are spoken among the Scots, the Scottish and Teutonic: the latter of which is the language of those who occupy the seaboard and plains, while the race of Scottish speech inhabits the highlands and oulying islands

1515:

Oh wait.... describes itself as.... "the official UK government website for citizens" and "website of the UK government". Their logo says "HMGovernment", right enough, but in continuous prose, it's "UK government" every

1063:

I think you're mistaken about UK being a noun as such. It is also an adjective, at least in practice. The website for the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (or whatever the name is) -:

1361:) and the ocean, respectively. What other terms could be used for those three? "British government" is different in that it's both unambiguous and correct. There's no need for the illiterate UK-as-a-descriptor construct. 579:

Agreed, this edit warring has been annoying me. It's my belief that "nor" is more correct here and I think we should just leave it like that. I couldn't find a policy either, and English grammar means it should be "nor".

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on the Scotland government website. It has a lot of useful observations which could be included into this article. Unfortunately I don't have enough time to do it myself, so I'm leaving it here for people to look over!

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to dictate usage. That's the beauty of the English language – its malleability. It doesn't mean I can't do my little bit to try and stop the likes of the above while they are still wrong, though. "UK Government"? Ugh.

2221:

Two interpretations of the linguistic divide in the middle ages. On the left the divide in 1500 after Loch, 1932; On the right the divide in 1400 after Nicholson, 1974 Blue is Gaelic, yellow is Scots and orange is

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Competing interpretations of the linguistic divide in the middle ages. Left: the divide in 1400 after Loch, 1932; Right: the divide in 1500 after Nicholson, 1974. Blue is Gaelic, yellow is Scots and orange is

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as archaic. It simply is not, and most English speakers I know use it and use it correctly. Also, your claim that both forms are equally correct is without merit, because even from a descriptive perspective

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According to Einar Haugen, Scandinavian was still spoken on the (Outer) Hebrides as late as the 16th century. None of the maps take this into account, so none of them can claim any amount of accuracy. --

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order and annotation? As we both now acknowledge, the current map / annotation is not correct, and we agree that we need to be correct in reference to the attribution if not to the linguistic realities.

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varieties of english" and refers to the usage of British or American English in articles, not cases like this. It's definitely not a policy for keeping something just because it's been there a while.

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very different or similair structure to English that's all I was suggesting. Just adding in a few lines over wether native English speakers would find it easy or difficult to adapt to the language.

1045:

Well yes, but it's an abbreviation for United Kingdom, which is also not a noun (even an attributive one). I watch BBC programmes because there is no adjective to describe something being BBC-like.

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is obsolete in modern speech but it is that very hypothesis that we are challenging. This is not a debate between descriptivists and prescriptivists; it is an argument over your description of

240:

What he said. At best, you might be able to find some data on the relative distance between languages but on the whole, linguists don't really entertain the concept of easy or hard languages.

2340:

Just to check I understand, you want the Loch map (1500) on the right and the Nicholson map (1400) on the left? Would this edited annotation ("Competing interpretations...") be preferable?

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Just because "nor" and "whom" are infrequently used does not make them any less correct. But anyway, we have consensus now and I think it's a good time to bring this discussion to an end.

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There are 70 million hits for "US government". The boat on that one hasn't just left, it's left, rounded the cape, survived the freak wave and it way on its way to Flosston Paradise ;)

1329:

Similarly common are UAE Government, PRC Government and NATO meeting. I would say that there's a perfectly acceptable rule that says an acronym can be used as an adj or noun. Neeeext.

2445:

Is it possible you're confusing the colours? Blue = Gaelic, Yellow = Scots. So that only makes the the crescent from the Black Isle to Nairn Scots speaking, which I'd say is right.

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correct way, and each should be considered theoretically equal. Given that the word "or" has been here a year without anyone batting an eyelid, at the very least it falls under

1897:

These are great. The only suggestion I have that the unclear Norse area applies to all 3 maps. Since it's in doubt, perhaps if you shaded the area in orange and yellow or blue?

1919:

I'll do that and combine them into a single figure. Do we include the Ross interpretation? My gut instinct is to reject it as he's a popular writer as opposed to an academic.

1538:

is a good idea and seems largely correct (or at least sensible), but the Isle of Man and some other coastal areas (especially Galway) should be marked as dark pink for mixed

1388:'British government' is hardly correct, since any government on the British Isles can claim to be a british government. The Government of the United Kingdom of etc. is not 2076:

Stirlingshire and eastern Perthshire, where it was still prevalent and in the case of Dunbartonshire, Moray and Easter Ross, totally dominant outside a few burghs. Cf.

1249:

You may not like it but every living language changes by consensus. If enough people say it "wrong" it actually does become right. That's why you buy books, not beek.

107:

I would like to bring to the attention of people editing this article the recent study towards attitudes and identity when it comes to Gaelic language. It is located

1357:

They're not actually great examples as "Emirati government", "Chinese government" and "Atlantic (?) meeting" could refer to other emirates, the Republic of China (

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I've left this stagnate slightly... I've replaced Ross' map on the article page with Nicholson's for the time being as it is more likely to be accurate.

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It's the American influence creeping in on British English. "US Government" is and always has been nonsensical. (As would "Denmark Government" be.)

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I think it's a given that the Angus Glens were Gaelic until relatively recently. Does Withers talk about Strathmore and the Mearns at all?

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Ross's interpretation of the linguistic divide in 1400, here based on place-name evidence. Blue is Gaelic, yellow is Scots and orange is

456:

The last strongholds of the Picts were in the low-lying easily accessible East. The Highlands are just that, high - I suspect geography.

437:

I have always wondered this, why is it that Norman influence and the led to such permament Anglicization at the expense of Gaelic when:

690:. It's one of those things that don't even get taught actively to most learners any more, because so few natives use them (see also 2603: 2430:

discussion on "defunct" dialects, surely it would be more relevant, accurate (and likely true) to refer to more recent sources?

1804:

In the east-central and coastal parishes of Aberdeenshire, Gaelic probably ceased to be spoken 'some time between 1500 and 1600'

300:

In basic terms I'm sure you're right. Some people with certain languages will find others easy to learn. Unfortunately, without

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I just don't see why it should be problem for Knowledge in 2012 when it wasn't problem for Encyclopaedia Britannica in 1938

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www.direct.gov.uk/ 'Website of the UK government' (Heey, look, the UK government does it wrong, too). We're all mistaken :p

1863:

Hey that's great! Sorry I can't be of much help when it comes to drawing maps but glad I could point you at a good source.

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Re-introducing 'thou' and 'thee' actually makes sense. About time those migrant anglo-saxons learn to speek properly ;)

1985:

The maps are great, any chance of making them in SVG format so that they can be edited further along the line? Thanks.

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As I said, it's an American thing (or US thing, if you'd prefer). The Britannica has been American-owned since 1901.

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10 million for "UK government" ... sorry, just as gone. You might as well crusade for re-introducing thou and thee.

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Though the ANI report is from 2012, the same pattern of edits is continuing. Edit warring by an IP-hopper violates

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can be claimed to be outmoded? A quick trawl of bbc.co.uk lists 970,000 instances of nor. Hardly marginal I'd say.

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together negative statements. In fact, the more I examine it, the clearer it becomes that I was mistaken to call

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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If you are interested, please visit the task force's page in order to see how you would be able to participate.

1031:; for another, UK is not a noun but an abbreviation. You don't watch BBC programmes, you watch BBCish ones? -- 1007:

a Netherlands (or Holland, your choice) footballer, Gandhi an India politican, Kaiser Bill a Germany king and

850:(91,000). Taking that together with the bbc data, I'd say Longman's is guilty of a shortcoming, if anything. 2015:

Possibly... I'm using photoshop for the moment, which doesn't handle SVG files. I'll look into SVG editors.

1809:

So coming back to the map, for the period in question it seems ... unrealistic. Are you any good with maps?

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I'm imposing semiprotection on the article and talk page for one month due to POV-pushing and violation of

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Scotland. And if Pictish died out so quickly why did it take Gaelic so long to decline in the higlands?

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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UKish doesn't exist either. It's a defective form that doesn't inflect. You're trying to synthesise a

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grammar structure is etc. to English and how that increases difficulty, but would still need a source.

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WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive774#Appropriate for semi-protection? Or another solution?

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It's hard to tell. The most reliable collection of data on the topic I've seen to date is Withers

1721:

An accurate map would surely have at least Lowland Perthshire, Angus and Aberdeenshire in yellow.

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https://web.archive.org/20130529065734/http://www.arts.ed.ac.uk/celtic/papers/officialstatus.html

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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do. What language does is what matters, not what you, or me*, or anyone thinks it should do.

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Thanks @Escape Orbit for re-formatting the unorthodoxly-presented ref to MacBain in the

1426:"sigh" Looks like we have to do the Lindisfarne expedition all over again... Mmmh... :D 871:(The only language that is de jure official in any part of the United Kingdom is Welsh.) 2628:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2465: 2446: 2431: 1958: 1898: 1864: 1810: 1759: 1689: 1650: 1618: 1569:

Some mention of pre-Union persecution by the Scottish government should be mentioned.--

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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by a particular editor who uses a variety of IPs. The most recent edit by the IP was

1589: 1491: 1461: 1032: 554: 2256:, whereas Ross is not, as well-written as his books may be from a popular viewpoint. 617:

from that draws unnecessary attention to itself, at worst simply an outmoded usage.

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is more correct. Also, as far as I can tell there is no policy favoring the use of

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The Boundary between Gaelic and English-speaking in 1400 (After Nicholson, 1974)

1441:"government of the UK" or something similar, just using "UK" as the descriptor! 1008: 930:

vowels). "Somerled" is a rendering of the original Norse, so it retains the M.

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Hm we're sliding into a forum debate here, which is not encourage by Knowledge.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

136: 2634:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1878: 1196: 614: 595:

I also agree. "Nor" is used correctly here and is a better choice than "or".--

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And Ross' map is not an acceptable alternative, for the reasons given above.

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chocolates etc, and "government" isn't really a quantity or division, is it?

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The Boundary between Gaelic and English-speaking in 1500 (After Loch, 1932)

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form from another word. This is acceptable usage, but it's not obligatory.

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the working language of the UK but this has never been enshrined in law.

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yes, you or me. I said it. If you want an explanation of why, just ask.

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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I wish I was any good at doing maps, I'd love to recreate some of them.

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is outdated -- it is no longer a majority usage -- but concensus wins.

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Great I'll have a look around and see if I can come up with anything.

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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It would be useful to get some opinions from other editors here.

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Your "descriptive" analysis is predicated on the hypothesis that

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Are "breadian" and "suitish" words, or have I missed something?

1697: 1588:? There probably should be at least a link there from here. -- 836: 486:

How widely was Gaelic spoken during the wars of independence?

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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is just a very old spelling, GG, not a modern rendition of

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in several places. So please stop the edit warring! Dave (

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http://www.arts.ed.ac.uk/celtic/papers/officialstatus.html

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The Highland Line in Medieval Scotland (After Smout, 1969)

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an Australia racing driver. Sound good? Give me strength.

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That's a different structure, though, so irrelevant here.

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I have just added archive links to one external link on

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Right enough... The legend on the original map reads:

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No point, as we've already innovated you vs youse :b

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provides a list of mutually exclusive alternatives,

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I see there is an edit war going on over the use of

2638:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1299:It doesn't mean the HMS Britain has to follow it! 613:. Personally I also think it's at best a heavily 2248:We can alter the order in which the maps appear. 1490:And Knowledge uses American servers. So what? -- 877:means, but isn't English an official language? — 1613:No, this oddity is indeed the case. English is 1210:do, and there are various things that language 2624:This message was posted before February 2018. 2395:Okay, Withers has them the other way round in 869:I found this curious sentence in the opening: 782:more correct; I should have left out the word 2179:Areas of Norse speech (After Nicholson, 1974) 688:rather infrequently used negative counterpart 8: 1027:For one thing, English has something called 985: 1684:This map is sourced, based on the work of 1544:File:Kingdom of Mann and the Isles-en.svg 128:The Scottish Gaelic task force needs you! 1671: 633:other matters. Per my edit summary, and 549:, nor is there any proscription against 2491:not exclusive like these maps suggest. 667:Oh really? Care to share on what basis 1153:at home, and you wouldn't ever wear a 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1753:Wholly Irish & Highland Countreys 7: 2334:(both reproduced from Withers, 1984) 2226:(both reproduced from Withers, 1984) 1202:There are many things that language 369:Ah I see. Thanks for the heads up. 2373:link posted above to verify that). 1645:on 13 February. For background see 1206:do, there is nothing that language 103:Study into Attitudes towards Gaelic 2539:MacBain ref in "Loanwords" section 24: 2578:. Please take a moment to review 2550:http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/ 2486:The 1500 map in Wilson Macleod's 1546:(a political map) and especially 790:was just flat out wrong. Dave ( 2319: 2310: 2211: 2202: 1079:Hey, I didn't vote for them. :) 846:(33,000) and somewhat less than 521:Edit warring over the letter "n" 135: 29: 1392:british government, but merely 1264:I know, I'm not pushing for an 1141:I assume that if you object to 986:'UK Government' vs. other terms 956:into English. And besides, in 385:20:55, 10 September 2011 (UTC) 363:15:49, 10 September 2011 (UTC) 342:14:43, 10 September 2011 (UTC) 1: 1663:16:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC) 1526:15:29, 4 September 2012 (UTC) 1230:15:05, 4 September 2012 (UTC) 1191:08:18, 4 September 2012 (UTC) 1175:07:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC) 1149:etc, then you don't have any 909:The translation of "Somerled" 513:22:22, 17 February 2012 (UTC) 496:21:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC) 482:21:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC) 466:21:49, 16 February 2012 (UTC) 451:20:18, 16 February 2012 (UTC) 427:10:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC) 406:21:42, 16 November 2011 (UTC) 320:23:02, 9 September 2011 (UTC) 294:22:51, 9 September 2011 (UTC) 271:20:08, 8 September 2011 (UTC) 250:18:47, 7 September 2011 (UTC) 236:17:34, 7 September 2011 (UTC) 217:13:56, 7 September 2011 (UTC) 199:11:34, 7 September 2011 (UTC) 170:22:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC) 151:would be greatly appreciated. 2527:20:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC) 2397:Gaelic in Scotland 1698–1981 1598:16:03, 3 November 2012 (UTC) 1579:16:42, 2 November 2012 (UTC) 533:. According to the rules of 2690:16:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC) 2501:15:40, 9 October 2013 (UTC) 2474:17:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC) 2455:12:32, 1 October 2013 (UTC) 2440:09:32, 1 October 2013 (UTC) 1560:14:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC) 978:11:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC) 964:does not represent /v/ but 940:10:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC) 924:09:54, 14 August 2012 (UTC) 611:retain the existing variety 123:16:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC) 2705: 2655:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2596:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 2571:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1548:File:Old norse, ca 900.PNG 145:Scottish Gaelic task force 143:Your participation in the 2562:17:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC) 2420:18:21, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 2383:16:30, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 2361:15:55, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 2299:14:53, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 2280:14:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC) 2243:17:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC) 2169:16:04, 30 July 2013 (UTC) 2151:15:57, 30 July 2013 (UTC) 2120:15:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC) 2090:15:39, 30 July 2013 (UTC) 2070:10:48, 26 June 2013 (UTC) 1712: 1500:17:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC) 1486:17:36, 17 July 2012 (UTC) 1470:17:30, 17 July 2012 (UTC) 1453:08:08, 17 July 2012 (UTC) 1436:23:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1422:23:32, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1407:23:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1373:22:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1353:22:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1339:22:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1325:22:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1311:22:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1295:22:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1281:22:27, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1259:22:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1137:22:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1122:22:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1106:21:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1091:21:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1075:21:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1057:21:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1041:21:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1023:21:35, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 1001:21:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) 860:17:04, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 817:18:55, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 803:15:58, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 744:15:53, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 729:15:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 714:15:40, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 681:11:02, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 663:01:48, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 647:01:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 627:01:03, 2 March 2012 (UTC) 601:16:13, 1 March 2012 (UTC) 591:15:12, 1 March 2012 (UTC) 574:14:35, 1 March 2012 (UTC) 351:reliability of the source 2036:08:12, 13 May 2013 (UTC) 1995:20:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1967:19:28, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1940:18:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1907:18:24, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1873:13:07, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1858:12:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1819:10:51, 12 May 2013 (UTC) 1790:20:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC) 1742:08:44, 11 May 2013 (UTC) 1627:17:47, 2 July 2013 (UTC) 1604:Question on Introduction 903:20:26, 3 June 2012 (UTC) 887:20:16, 3 June 2012 (UTC) 838:and get 40,000 hits for 2567:External links modified 842:. Rather more than for 2464:dominant over Gaelic. 1891: 1883: 1833: 1681: 1536:File:Scots lang-en.svg 178:Difficulty in learning 1889: 1881: 1831: 1675: 635:Conjunction (grammar) 391:4th century: sources? 42:of past discussions. 2636:regular verification 2621:to let others know. 2582:. If necessary, add 149:Wikiproject Scotland 18:Talk:Scottish Gaelic 2626:After February 2018 2617:parameter below to 1609:review/correction. 433:Reasons for Decline 2631:InternetArchiveBot 1892: 1884: 1834: 1749:Gaelic in Scotland 1682: 873:I'm not sure what 2688: 2656: 2416: 2357: 2276: 2147: 2116: 2066: 2032: 1936: 1854: 1786: 1755:in the 1705 data. 1738: 1719: 1718: 1542:as well, compare 1266:Académie anglaise 417:comment added by 375:comment added by 332:comment added by 284:comment added by 189:comment added by 158: 157: 147:which is part of 100: 99: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2696: 2684: 2683:Talk to my owner 2679: 2654: 2653: 2632: 2597: 2589: 2519:Florian Blaschke 2415: 2414:and the soapdish 2412: 2410: 2405: 2356: 2355:and the soapdish 2353: 2351: 2346: 2323: 2314: 2275: 2274:and the soapdish 2272: 2270: 2265: 2215: 2206: 2146: 2145:and the soapdish 2143: 2141: 2136: 2115: 2114:and the soapdish 2112: 2110: 2105: 2065: 2064:and the soapdish 2062: 2060: 2055: 2031: 2030:and the soapdish 2028: 2026: 2021: 1935: 1934:and the soapdish 1932: 1930: 1925: 1853: 1852:and the soapdish 1850: 1848: 1843: 1785: 1784:and the soapdish 1782: 1780: 1775: 1737: 1736:and the soapdish 1734: 1732: 1727: 1715: 1698: 1692:wrote in c1380: 1668:14th century map 1586:Statutes of Iona 1552:Florian Blaschke 1531:12th century map 1481: 1477: 1448: 1444: 1368: 1364: 1306: 1302: 1276: 1272: 1186: 1182: 1117: 1113: 1086: 1082: 1052: 1048: 1029:attributive noun 1018: 1014: 916:Glorious Goddess 742: 661: 589: 429: 387: 344: 318: 296: 215: 201: 168: 139: 132: 121: 78: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2704: 2703: 2699: 2698: 2697: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2687: 2682: 2647: 2640:have permission 2630: 2591: 2583: 2576:Scottish Gaelic 2569: 2541: 2493:138.251.229.191 2413: 2408: 2403: 2375:138.251.250.200 2354: 2349: 2344: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2335: 2326: 2325: 2324: 2316: 2315: 2291:138.251.250.200 2273: 2268: 2263: 2235:138.251.250.200 2230: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2218: 2217: 2216: 2208: 2207: 2161:138.251.250.200 2144: 2139: 2134: 2113: 2108: 2103: 2082:138.251.250.200 2063: 2058: 2053: 2029: 2024: 2019: 1933: 1928: 1923: 1851: 1846: 1841: 1832:Nicholson, 1974 1783: 1778: 1773: 1735: 1730: 1725: 1713: 1670: 1635: 1606: 1567: 1533: 1479: 1475: 1446: 1442: 1366: 1362: 1304: 1300: 1274: 1270: 1184: 1180: 1115: 1111: 1084: 1080: 1050: 1046: 1016: 1012: 988: 911: 867: 734: 653: 597:William Thweatt 581: 555:manual of style 553:. In fact, the 535:English Grammar 523: 435: 419:195.194.215.249 412: 393: 370: 327: 310: 279: 207: 184: 180: 160: 130: 113: 105: 74: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2702: 2700: 2680: 2674: 2673: 2666: 2611: 2610: 2602:Added archive 2568: 2565: 2540: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2534: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2530: 2529: 2508: 2507: 2506: 2505: 2504: 2503: 2479: 2478: 2477: 2476: 2458: 2457: 2427: 2426: 2425: 2424: 2423: 2422: 2388: 2387: 2386: 2385: 2328: 2327: 2318: 2317: 2309: 2308: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2301: 2283: 2282: 2257: 2249: 2220: 2219: 2210: 2209: 2201: 2200: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2190: 2189: 2186: 2183: 2180: 2176: 2175: 2156: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2125: 2124: 2123: 2122: 2093: 2092: 2047: 2046: 2045: 2044: 2043: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2004: 2003: 2002: 2001: 2000: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1944: 1943: 1942: 1912: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1876: 1875: 1826: 1825: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1821: 1807: 1795: 1794: 1793: 1792: 1756: 1717: 1716: 1710: 1709: 1706: 1702: 1695: 1690:John of Fordun 1669: 1666: 1634: 1633:Semiprotection 1631: 1630: 1629: 1605: 1602: 1601: 1600: 1566: 1563: 1532: 1529: 1513: 1512: 1511: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1507: 1506: 1505: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1376: 1375: 1341: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1215: 1200: 1161:apples, a box 1139: 1061: 1060: 1059: 987: 984: 983: 982: 981: 980: 943: 942: 910: 907: 906: 905: 866: 863: 832: 831: 830: 829: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 716: 699: 695: 606: 605: 604: 603: 522: 519: 518: 517: 516: 515: 469: 468: 434: 431: 392: 389: 377:88.104.199.128 368: 366: 365: 334:88.104.199.128 325: 323: 322: 286:88.104.199.128 276: 274: 273: 257: 256: 255: 254: 253: 252: 220: 219: 191:88.104.199.128 179: 176: 174: 156: 155: 152: 140: 129: 126: 104: 101: 98: 97: 92: 89: 84: 79: 72: 67: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2701: 2692: 2691: 2685: 2678: 2671: 2667: 2664: 2660: 2659: 2658: 2651: 2645: 2641: 2637: 2633: 2627: 2622: 2620: 2616: 2609: 2605: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2595: 2587: 2581: 2577: 2572: 2566: 2564: 2563: 2559: 2555: 2551: 2546: 2538: 2528: 2524: 2520: 2516: 2515: 2514: 2513: 2512: 2511: 2510: 2509: 2502: 2498: 2494: 2489: 2488:Divided Gaels 2485: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2475: 2471: 2467: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2456: 2452: 2448: 2444: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2437: 2433: 2421: 2418: 2417: 2411: 2406: 2398: 2394: 2393: 2392: 2391: 2390: 2389: 2384: 2380: 2376: 2372: 2367: 2366: 2365: 2364: 2363: 2362: 2359: 2358: 2352: 2347: 2333: 2322: 2313: 2300: 2296: 2292: 2287: 2286: 2285: 2284: 2281: 2278: 2277: 2271: 2266: 2258: 2255: 2250: 2247: 2246: 2245: 2244: 2240: 2236: 2225: 2214: 2205: 2192: 2191: 2187: 2184: 2181: 2178: 2177: 2173: 2172: 2171: 2170: 2166: 2162: 2152: 2149: 2148: 2142: 2137: 2129: 2128: 2127: 2126: 2121: 2118: 2117: 2111: 2106: 2097: 2096: 2095: 2094: 2091: 2087: 2083: 2079: 2074: 2073: 2072: 2071: 2068: 2067: 2061: 2056: 2037: 2034: 2033: 2027: 2022: 2014: 2013: 2012: 2011: 2010: 2009: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2005: 1996: 1992: 1988: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1968: 1964: 1960: 1955: 1954: 1953: 1952: 1951: 1950: 1949: 1948: 1941: 1938: 1937: 1931: 1926: 1918: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1913: 1908: 1904: 1900: 1896: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1888: 1880: 1874: 1870: 1866: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1859: 1856: 1855: 1849: 1844: 1830: 1820: 1816: 1812: 1808: 1805: 1801: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1797: 1796: 1791: 1788: 1787: 1781: 1776: 1768: 1767: 1765: 1761: 1757: 1754: 1750: 1746: 1745: 1744: 1743: 1740: 1739: 1733: 1728: 1711: 1703: 1699: 1696: 1693: 1691: 1687: 1686:David R. Ross 1679: 1674: 1667: 1665: 1664: 1660: 1656: 1652: 1648: 1644: 1640: 1632: 1628: 1624: 1620: 1616: 1612: 1611: 1610: 1603: 1599: 1595: 1591: 1587: 1584:You mean the 1583: 1582: 1581: 1580: 1576: 1572: 1564: 1562: 1561: 1557: 1553: 1549: 1545: 1541: 1537: 1530: 1528: 1527: 1523: 1519: 1501: 1497: 1493: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1484: 1482: 1473: 1472: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1456: 1455: 1454: 1451: 1449: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1433: 1429: 1428:Dylansmrjones 1425: 1424: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1411: 1410: 1409: 1408: 1404: 1400: 1399:Dylansmrjones 1395: 1391: 1374: 1371: 1369: 1360: 1356: 1355: 1354: 1350: 1346: 1345:Dylansmrjones 1342: 1340: 1336: 1332: 1328: 1327: 1326: 1322: 1318: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1309: 1307: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1292: 1288: 1284: 1283: 1282: 1279: 1277: 1267: 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1256: 1252: 1231: 1227: 1223: 1220: 1216: 1213: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1198: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1189: 1187: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1172: 1168: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1152: 1148: 1147:US Government 1144: 1143:UK Government 1140: 1138: 1134: 1130: 1129:Dylansmrjones 1125: 1124: 1123: 1120: 1118: 1109: 1108: 1107: 1103: 1099: 1098:Dylansmrjones 1094: 1093: 1092: 1089: 1087: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1072: 1068: 1067:Dylansmrjones 1062: 1058: 1055: 1053: 1044: 1043: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1030: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1021: 1019: 1010: 1005: 1004: 1003: 1002: 998: 994: 993:Dylansmrjones 979: 975: 971: 967: 963: 959: 955: 951: 947: 946: 945: 944: 941: 937: 933: 928: 927: 926: 925: 921: 917: 908: 904: 900: 896: 891: 890: 889: 888: 884: 880: 876: 872: 864: 862: 861: 857: 853: 849: 845: 841: 837: 818: 814: 810: 806: 805: 804: 801: 797: 793: 789: 785: 781: 777: 773: 769: 764: 760: 755: 751: 747: 746: 745: 741: 740: 739: 732: 731: 730: 726: 722: 717: 715: 711: 707: 703: 700: 696: 693: 689: 684: 683: 682: 678: 674: 670: 666: 665: 664: 660: 659: 658: 650: 649: 648: 644: 640: 636: 631: 630: 629: 628: 624: 620: 616: 612: 602: 598: 594: 593: 592: 588: 587: 586: 578: 577: 576: 575: 572: 568: 564: 560: 556: 552: 548: 544: 540: 536: 532: 528: 520: 514: 510: 506: 502: 501: 500: 499: 498: 497: 493: 489: 484: 483: 479: 475: 467: 463: 459: 455: 454: 453: 452: 448: 444: 438: 432: 430: 428: 424: 420: 416: 408: 407: 403: 399: 390: 388: 386: 382: 378: 374: 364: 360: 356: 352: 347: 346: 345: 343: 339: 335: 331: 321: 317: 316: 315: 314:JoshuaJohnLee 307: 303: 299: 298: 297: 295: 291: 287: 283: 272: 268: 264: 259: 258: 251: 247: 243: 239: 238: 237: 233: 229: 224: 223: 222: 221: 218: 214: 213: 212: 211:JoshuaJohnLee 204: 203: 202: 200: 196: 192: 188: 177: 175: 172: 171: 167: 166: 165: 164:JoshuaJohnLee 154: 150: 146: 141: 138: 134: 133: 127: 125: 124: 120: 119: 118: 117:JoshuaJohnLee 110: 102: 96: 93: 90: 88: 85: 83: 80: 77: 73: 71: 68: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 2675: 2650:source check 2629: 2623: 2618: 2614: 2612: 2573: 2570: 2542: 2487: 2428: 2401: 2400: 2396: 2370: 2342: 2341: 2339: 2261: 2260: 2231: 2157: 2132: 2131: 2101: 2100: 2051: 2050: 2048: 2017: 2016: 1921: 1920: 1839: 1838: 1835: 1803: 1771: 1770: 1752: 1748: 1723: 1722: 1720: 1694: 1683: 1636: 1614: 1607: 1568: 1540:Norse-Gaelic 1534: 1514: 1393: 1389: 1387: 1265: 1248: 1218: 1211: 1207: 1203: 1162: 1158: 1154: 1151:bread knives 1150: 1146: 1142: 989: 961: 957: 953: 949: 912: 874: 870: 868: 847: 843: 839: 833: 800:Please help! 787: 783: 779: 775: 774:is a way to 771: 767: 762: 758: 753: 749: 736: 735: 701: 691: 687: 668: 655: 654: 607: 583: 582: 571:Please help! 558: 550: 546: 542: 538: 530: 526: 524: 485: 470: 439: 436: 413:— Preceding 409: 394: 371:— Preceding 367: 328:— Preceding 324: 312: 311: 280:— Preceding 275: 209: 208: 185:— Preceding 181: 173: 162: 161: 159: 142: 115: 114: 106: 75: 43: 37: 2554:Mutt Lunker 1882:Smout, 1969 1565:Persecution 1155:suit jacket 1009:Mark Webber 879:MiguelMunoz 639:Mutt Lunker 36:This is an 1987:Prof Wrong 1890:Loch, 1932 1655:EdJohnston 1571:MacRùsgail 1518:Prof Wrong 1222:Prof Wrong 1197:suppletive 1167:Prof Wrong 932:Prof Wrong 893:language. 809:Prof Wrong 796:Talk to me 721:Prof Wrong 706:Prof Wrong 619:Prof Wrong 567:Talk to me 398:Prof Wrong 355:Prof Wrong 302:verifiable 263:Prof Wrong 228:Doric Loon 2676:Cheers. — 2670:this tool 2663:this tool 2545:Loanwords 2466:Hypertone 2447:Akerbeltz 2432:Hypertone 2078:this page 1959:Akerbeltz 1899:Akerbeltz 1865:Akerbeltz 1811:Akerbeltz 1760:Akerbeltz 1619:Akerbeltz 1414:Akerbeltz 1331:Akerbeltz 1317:Akerbeltz 1287:Akerbeltz 1251:Akerbeltz 970:Akerbeltz 958:Somhairle 954:Somhairle 895:Akerbeltz 865:Official? 852:Akerbeltz 738:Caledones 673:Akerbeltz 657:Caledones 585:Caledones 505:Akerbeltz 458:Akerbeltz 411:fact... 242:Akerbeltz 95:Archive 9 87:Archive 6 82:Archive 5 76:Archive 4 70:Archive 3 65:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 2586:cbignore 1802:He says 1639:WP:FORUM 1615:de facto 1590:Thrissel 1492:Thrissel 1462:Thrissel 1033:Thrissel 950:Somerled 948:Agreed. 792:djkernen 786:because 719:nobody. 563:djkernen 415:unsigned 373:unsigned 330:unsigned 282:unsigned 187:unsigned 2686::Online 2615:checked 2580:my edit 2404:Catfish 2345:Catfish 2264:Catfish 2135:Catfish 2104:Catfish 2054:Catfish 2020:Catfish 1924:Catfish 1842:Catfish 1774:Catfish 1726:Catfish 1651:WP:SOCK 875:de jure 844:neither 529:versus 488:Abrawak 474:Abrawak 443:Abrawak 306:sourced 39:archive 2594:nobots 1359:Taiwan 1208:should 1185:Jon C. 966:hiatus 848:either 615:marked 2371:Atlas 2254:WP:RS 2194:this: 1516:time. 1204:could 557:uses 545:over 16:< 2619:true 2558:talk 2523:talk 2497:talk 2470:talk 2451:talk 2436:talk 2379:talk 2332:Norn 2295:talk 2239:talk 2224:Norn 2165:talk 2086:talk 1991:talk 1963:talk 1903:talk 1869:talk 1815:talk 1764:talk 1678:Norn 1659:talk 1643:here 1623:talk 1594:talk 1575:talk 1556:talk 1522:talk 1496:talk 1480:JonC 1466:talk 1460:. -- 1447:JonC 1432:talk 1418:talk 1403:talk 1367:JonC 1349:talk 1335:talk 1321:talk 1305:JonC 1291:talk 1275:JonC 1255:talk 1226:talk 1217:(*) 1212:does 1171:talk 1133:talk 1116:JonC 1102:talk 1085:JonC 1071:talk 1051:JonC 1037:talk 1017:JonC 997:talk 974:talk 960:the 936:talk 920:talk 899:talk 883:talk 856:talk 813:talk 784:more 761:and 725:talk 710:talk 692:whom 677:talk 643:talk 623:talk 509:talk 492:talk 478:talk 462:talk 447:talk 423:talk 402:talk 381:talk 359:talk 338:talk 304:and 290:talk 267:talk 246:talk 232:talk 195:talk 109:here 2644:RfC 2606:to 2409:Jim 2350:Jim 2269:Jim 2140:Jim 2109:Jim 2059:Jim 2025:Jim 1929:Jim 1847:Jim 1779:Jim 1731:Jim 1390:the 1064:--> 840:nor 780:nor 776:and 772:nor 759:nor 754:nor 750:nor 702:Nor 698:it. 669:nor 599:| 559:nor 551:nor 547:nor 539:nor 527:nor 2657:. 2652:}} 2648:{{ 2592:{{ 2588:}} 2584:{{ 2560:) 2552:. 2525:) 2499:) 2472:) 2453:) 2438:) 2381:) 2297:) 2241:) 2167:) 2088:) 1993:) 1965:) 1905:) 1871:) 1817:) 1766:) 1708:” 1701:“ 1661:) 1625:) 1596:) 1577:) 1558:) 1524:) 1498:) 1468:) 1434:) 1420:) 1405:) 1351:) 1337:) 1323:) 1293:) 1257:) 1228:) 1173:) 1163:of 1159:of 1145:, 1135:) 1104:) 1073:) 1039:) 999:) 976:) 968:. 962:mh 938:) 922:) 901:) 885:) 858:) 815:) 794:)| 788:or 768:or 763:or 727:) 712:) 694:). 679:) 645:) 625:) 565:)| 543:or 537:, 531:or 511:) 494:) 480:) 464:) 449:) 425:) 404:) 383:) 361:) 340:) 292:) 269:) 248:) 234:) 197:) 91:→ 2672:. 2665:. 2556:( 2521:( 2495:( 2468:( 2449:( 2434:( 2377:( 2293:( 2237:( 2163:( 2084:( 1989:( 1961:( 1901:( 1867:( 1813:( 1762:( 1680:. 1657:( 1621:( 1592:( 1573:( 1554:( 1520:( 1494:( 1476:— 1464:( 1443:— 1430:( 1416:( 1401:( 1394:a 1363:— 1347:( 1333:( 1319:( 1301:— 1289:( 1271:— 1253:( 1224:( 1181:— 1169:( 1131:( 1112:— 1100:( 1081:— 1069:( 1047:— 1035:( 1013:— 995:( 972:( 934:( 918:( 897:( 881:( 854:( 811:( 798:| 723:( 708:( 675:( 641:( 621:( 569:| 507:( 490:( 476:( 460:( 445:( 421:( 400:( 379:( 357:( 336:( 288:( 265:( 244:( 230:( 193:( 50:.

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