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example, many Indian "secularists" tend to be people who support the standing separate penal codes for members of different religions. But I doubt that a secularist from, say, the United States or Great
Britain, would want Catholics to have one penal code and Protestants to have another. This is because secularism implies the separation of church and state, and not favoring one religion over another or letting a government foster religious division between the governed, as Indian secularism has invariably done. My point: keep religion in the house and the church, temple, synagogue, mosque or whatever. That's secularism, but that's not its Indian variant.
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article text consists solely of criticism of Indian secular movements, e.g. "Secularists in South Asia consist of Hindu-born
Marxists, Muslims and other people" appears to be a red-baiting, Muslim-baiting statement. The article seems to paint secularism in India as marginal, although self-declared secular political parties have ruled India for most of its history as an independent nation. I recommend either deletion, or a substantial rewrite, as the article as it stands is POV, mislabeled, and misleading.
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The State is entirely free to legislate whatever laws it sees fit, as long as they don't impinge on the "freedom of religion" (which is a fundamental right). Secondly, even if there were to be some bounds on the State, nobody would argue that it is part of "Indian secularism" to have such bounds. What do the references Smith and Larson say in support of the statement in the paragraph?
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points of view including atheism and to ensure that there are no religious persecution. So, I vote for keeping the Wiki Page titled as
Secularism in India, which has kept its ancient roots while embracing modern (or contemporary) style of governance. I vote as such for the same of objectivity, which is the spirit of Knowledge (XXG).
1906:. (The point the IP edit was making was that there is nothing special about the Muslim Personal law being a religious law because other communities have religious laws too. He is wrong of course because the so-named "Hindu laws" are not religious laws; they are common laws. This kind of POV is likely to be pushed repeatedly.)
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The article text appears to be problematic and POV. It seems to deal with secularism in India, and not in South Asia at large. For example, secularism has a different meaning in
Bangladesh or Pakistan than it does in India. Secularism in either India or South Asia is a broad and complex idealogy; the
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Secularism in India has had a completely different meaning from the standard meaning for separation of state from the church, which is a
European concept. In fact, secularism in India predates even the Moghul and British rule of India. Secularism in the Indian context is to accommodate all religious
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The leading paragraph of the article mentions that the Indian secularism envisages that "religious laws are binding on the State". This is a major fallacy, as far as I can see. In the first place, there is nothing in the Indian
Constitution that says that religious laws are binding on the State.
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claiming "Muslim
Indians have Sharia-based Muslim Personal Law, while Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and have their separate religious laws. There are separate laws for Hindus, Christians, Parsis etc in India. Info mentioned is incorrect" is based precisely on this confusion. Many people are under the
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I've edited the article and added historical and philosophical analysis of the subject. The article accords with academic scholarship on the historical development of secularism in India and seeks to give a neutral account of the different perspectives and situation of it in India. As the title of
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Yup, that is the problem. I don't find any mention of "binding" in the Larson book, or the allusion to the 1939 DMMA as setting a precedent for superceding the common laws. The answer might lie in the Smith's book, which is not on Google books, but I could get it from my library if necessary. I
1880:, I don't know anything about whether it's binding on the state, no anything mentioned in the Constitution of this sort. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, we do have personal laws for every major religion concerning domestic issues but also have a common criminal law from what I read.
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You're right in that this article talks only about secularism in the context of India, and that if it is to follow its title, that it should talk about the concept in other South Asian. But, as unfortunate as it is, the article's description of Indian secularism seems to be the correct one. For
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Supporters state that any attempt to introduce a uniform civil code, that is equal laws for every citizen irrespective of his or her religion, would impose majoritarian Hindu sensibilities and ideals. Critics state that India's acceptance of Sharia and religious laws violates the principle of
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says that linking is very important and requests its people to take care to avoid overlinking and underlinking. Care is to be taken while adding and removing links. Removing too many links from a complex topic such as this can result in inaccurate description of reality or history.
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misconception that there are separate religious laws in India. There aren't. This is only one religious law, viz., the Muslim
Personal Law. All other people are under the common law. Claiming that "religious laws are binding on the state" exacerbates this confusion.
2077:"For example, the minimum age of marriage for girls is 18 for Hindu and Christian Indians, while the personal law according to sharia allows Muslim Indians to marry a girl less than 12 years old"-Looks lik thi is factually incorrect & is propaganda based.
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The article is dominant with arguments and references favoring a negative view of secularism in India. Requesting editors to incorporate both sides of the controversy proportionately in compliance with
Knowledge (XXG)'s Neutral Point of View policy.
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don't actually buy the Smith's contention that there is some kind of fundamental inconsistency between a secular state and separate civil laws for different religious communities. The inconsistency is really between secular state and
2205:: The article is clearly written from the point of view of an anti-secularist. There have been multiple issues raised with this article's content over the years (expressed in previous sections), and most of these remain unresolved.
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in "Islamic" disguise. (Added Up: Another view can be seen in the terminology used by Ronald Inden as
Islamophobia is that the Government of India had a responsibility for the Islam minority who stayed back in India during the
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I have left in a direct quote from Inden's text. If someone can find views matching the above somewhere else in Inden's writing, please link to it here so that we can discuss what can and should be added back to the article.
2211:: The article is much more like an essay, to argue the POV outlined. There are multiple instances where the article attempts to argue that secularism is merely a front for "muslim appeasement", such as in this passage:
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Replaced the wording of "Religious conversion is a hot issue in India" to "Religious conversion are a contentious issue in India" - That I hope you will agree makes it sound less like a Magazine or tabloid article.
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leaders (without actually providing any community or theological benefits to regular Muslims in India). He writes that poorly educated Indian so-called "intelligentsia" identify Indian "secularism" with
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This article does not mention several elements of Indian law that discriminate among different religions. They are summarized in an Economic Times article by Ashwini Anand
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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1946:, have also observed that the Indian government is not really "secular", but one that selectively discriminates against Hindu communities while superficially appeasing
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needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments.
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That IP edit said something in the summary but added altogether a different conflicting statement. All I know that the Directive Principles mention
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I feel like a jerk doing this right after everything got split up per my suggestion and I'm very sorry, but right now it's violating copyright. --
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has a good discussion of what should be linked and what shouldn't be. 2, 3 or 4 links is fine. (Literally) 100 of just "English" is not. --
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the article conveys, it need not deal with secularism in the whole of South Asia for which other related articles may occupy their space.
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I just removed an amazing amount of overlinking. How amazing? Several hundred links. The thing is. Wikilinking is wonderful. But we
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recently removed some amboxes that I placed at the head of the article. Here is why I believe that these amboxes are needed.
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secularism means separation of religious powers from the state (govt)and give religious freedom to all their citizens
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This section is basically implying that equality for all religions is not what secularism is, when in fact that is
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The edit history indicates that you have edit warred with four different editors over the last few months
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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2281:. Please look into his points. I am willing to research them and cite legal references, if asked to.
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for its inclusion rests on you, as the contributor, to demonstrate that it belongs in the article.
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by checking whether ] has been added to atheism-related articles – and, where it hasn't, adding it.
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You need to find scholarly sources for these kind of issues. This book is a good starting point:
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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be merged into this article, as I don't believe that article satisfies notability, in particular
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09:26, 5 March 2009 (UTC) that is not for in made in Indian country, see in all over world.
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from the article that attributed views to Inden that I could not find in the cited source:
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Add Atheism info box to all atheism related talk pages (use {{WikiProject Atheism}} or see
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to your page ({{User WikiProject Atheism}} or {{User WPA2}}) and attract potential members.
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Try to expand stubs. Ideas and theories about life, however, are prone to generating
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As for the split template, that one's not debatable (there's a split discussion at
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is supposed to summarise the article". Did you see the edit summary? Did you read
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This is a hulking beast of an article at about 119 kilobytes, much larger than
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2007:“Imagining India,” by Ronald Inden. Indiana University Press. 2000. p.xii.
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If you would like to participate, you can edit this article and visit the
581:-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
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Definitely not neologism any more - the term finds 4800+ mentions on
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license. That "noncommercial" detail makes it incompatible with the
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For more information and how you can help, click the link opposite:
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Please check the validity of this statement in the current version
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Yes, the article is long. I have split the article into sections,
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was split as follows in order to keep it readable and coherent.
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defines it as a being restricted to America in the 21st century.
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Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 2.5 India
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Oh shoot. The given refs don't even have a page no, but here
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Use a "standard" layout for atheism-related articles (see
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1961:West Bengal
1857:The recent
1718:This source
1565:Overlinking
1450:legal field
1186:this merge
1129:Agnosticism
197:written in
148:free images
31:not a forum
2339:Categories
1996:References
1908:Uday Reddy
1864:Uday Reddy
1842:Uday Reddy
1751:Explodicle
1637:Explodicle
1437:Law portal
1298:Philosophy
1287:philosophy
1233:Philosophy
1105:Watch the
1096:neologisms
1035:to-do list
873:Quick help
530:Interfaith
2322:Kautilya3
2228:T:Rewrite
2179:Kautilya3
2161:And your
1983:Abecedare
1581:of every
729:Sociology
720:sociology
676:Sociology
208:travelled
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2175:MOS:LEAD
2171:MOS:LEAD
2129:Addie666
2122:WP:UNDUE
2102:unsigned
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1965:madrassa
1822:utcursch
1597:unsigned
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1242:Religion
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652:inactive
600:Religion
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464:politics
420:Politics
288:Politics
216:analysed
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2209:T:Essay
2137:WP:ONUS
2047:Kumakaa
1969:Muslims
1934:I have
1534:Anirvan
1482:on the
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1194:Atheism
1184:against
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212:centre
204:colour
126:Google
2283:Sooku
2203:T:POV
1622:Split
1174:into
990:purge
985:watch
344:India
333:India
283:India
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
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1474:High
1317:High
1188:here
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1004:and
975:edit
837:High
748:High
619:High
589:and
587:good
492:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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2192:POV
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363:Top
176:TWL
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