1342:, you read malice in my edits where there is none. Instead, just a newer editor's mistakes. I don't want to censor the content at all, but instead to update it based on the most recent and rigorous science. I agree that it would be historically inaccurate not to include dangerous methods, and as I've mentioned, I think those details belong in the history section. The most common self-induced abortion methods in 2019 are abortion pills. Of course, more "dangerous" methods are still used today, which is why I mention methods like "injury to the uterus" and "physical harm to the body" in my edits. I agree that it would be inaccurate to leave these out, but I do not think it is accurate to detail methods from one specific country (India, per previous content) and call it accurate or thorough. Per the comment you have on my page, yes, we have lots of global evidence that the most common documented self-induced abortion methods are abortion pills, and also that women continue to use other methods (such as herbs, mixtures, alcohol, inflicting violence on themselves) when pills aren't available or known about.
1315:, which is appropriate when there is a content dispute. It is unfortunate when an editor deletes sourced content in order to replace it with other sourced content, because the reversion to the status quo necessitates the deletion of the new content, but that is the nature of content disputes. MEDRS, of course, does not apply to disclosing factual historical beliefs in the effectiveness of methods, and it is frankly absurd to delete, for example, all references to coathangers, where these are themselves a symbol of the legal abortion movement. With respect to censorship, the removing editor said himself above that he rewrote the section "to delete details of dangerous methods", which appears to be intended to hide the fact that dangerous methods were used.
1391:) reviewed self-induced (they refer to it as "self-managed") abortion studies over the last 30+ years and found that abortion pills are most common method used. Other methods they cite include herbs, physical trauma of all kinds (like those you name), actions like jumping from a high place or excessive exercise, etc. This review specifically says that before 2000, 14 includes studies reported on the use of plants/herbs, physical trauma, intrauterine trauma, and alcohol use, and only two studies mentioned misoprostol. Out of a total of 93 included studies that were published during or after the year 2000, the majority documented use of misoprostol alone or mifepristone/misoprostol in combination, followed up plants and herbs as the next most common.
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are approved methods including induction of abortion with medication, described below, as well as unapproved and unsafe methods which can be broadly categorized as either consuming toxic substances, putting substances into the vagina and/or uterus, and traumatizing the cervix and/or uterus with instruments or foreign bodies (e.g. stick, hanger). Then the methods section could have a sub-section for "Approved
Regimens for self-managed abortion" containing most of the info already there and another for. "Unsafe self-managed abortion" focusing on management of unsafe abortion complications, as there is literature on that. This distinction between the two types of self managed abortion is so important. Thanks for your thoughts. --
1036:. I believe that an article that primarily focuses on methods is going to be incomplete and unencyclopedic. In addition to "how", there should be substantial information on "who" (e.g., mostly poor women), "where" (e.g., is it a rural phenomenon?), "when" (e.g., is it less common now than in previous centuries?), and "why" (e.g., what alternatives are realistically available?). Outcomes are also important: "You can stick a knitting needle up there" should always be followed by "but you might bleed to death afterwards". There should be a link to
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resulted in failure or worse. I'll submit a draft that organizes and itemizes these medically unsafe and ineffective methods, including the history of some (if/where/when appropriate), but has the primary focus of updating and strengthening this article's focus on Self-induced
Abortion, as well as providing the latest medical information. Thanks for your input. /Lakshmi Singh
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performed in the country where it is illegal or in others where its practice is legal or less punishable (abortive tourism). Clandestine abortion, when carried out in countries where it is illegal, is usually practiced in conditions of sanitary or legal insecurity; when it is carried out in other countries it can be carried out in conditions of sanitary and legal security.
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presume that there was no problem with the material added and focus discussion only on what they had originally removed? DataNerdMPH identified some problems with the material, both in factual content and in connection with MEDRS (it looks like you've restored primary research, for example), which is
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This
Knowledge article is about self-induced abortion and should therefore focus on safe and medically effective methods - while reviewing numerous unsafe and ineffective practices. The Fielding letter, which I deleted, is both extremely dated in that regard, and digresses from the article's intent.
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Now. This is anecdotal, and anecdotal evidence says nothing useful for WP. But our article claims that "the historical use of this method has led to the use of coathangers as a symbol of the abortion rights movement," so I really feel that we should make certain that coat-hangers were actually at
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not a good analogy, considering murder needs motives (psychopathy, hate, jealousy etc) but in these girls I'm referring to they already have. the murder article doesn't report alternative ways of committing murder plus the ways of killing someone are pretty much known. (ways of getting away with it
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It is so important to distinguish between approved regimens to self-induce or self-manage an abortion (misoprostol/mifepristone) and unsafe, unapproved methods in this section. I was thinking of adding a sentence after "Self-induced abortion methods vary around the world" along the lines of: There
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Who's the "we" ? Do you claim to speak on behalf of all women, or aborted women, or self induced abortees etc.. ? Knowledge has policies. Please study them before removing large chunks of referenced materials which you disagree with. Knowledge operates through consensus, and you don't have it. I'm
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Your authors have lectured nationwide on abortion on an average of one city a week for almost three decades. We frequently ask the audience to provide documented proof of a self-induced coat hanger abortion. In all this time no one has given us a single case. It may well be — there never were any
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Hi all, new to wikipedia and this page - hoping to help update this article, as this topic is being searched more and more. In the current literature and conversations, it's more often referred to as a self-managed abortion. What do others think about including that term throughout the article
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I believe that the heading of this article page, "Self-induced
Abortion" should primarily focus on just that: how women can self-induce, without the potential and risk that women have been facing for countless millennia. But I see @Jim1138's point about the mentions of those methods that have
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Specifically, clandestine abortion is that which is usually practiced out in countries were is penalized or illegal. The purpose is to hide its realization as well as the identity of the woman in order to avoid the penalties that may be imposed by the authorities. Clandestine abortion can be
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I agree with the idea of distinguishing between methods. Rather than assigning value to them (such as "approved', under the "Methods attempted" section, I was thinking of one subheading of "Mifepristone and/or misoprostol" and another of "Physical trauma, herbs, and other substances". This
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There is no potential criminal liability for providing accurately sourced information describing how other people have engaged in a medical act, just as there is no threat of an indictment for practicing medicine without a license for including such information in the article
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Your approach may turn out to be a waste of time and also criminal incitement in many jurisdictions where self induced abortions are illegal. If you don't get why the
Fielding letter is important for retention in this article, you ought not to be editing in this area.
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Also, speaking of "miscarriages", that word is significantly overused in this article at the moment. These methods to not ever produce miscarriages. They may produce "the death of the embryo/fetus/baby", and they may "end" or "terminate" the pregnancy, but the term
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some point by someone getting an abortion. I did a (very) quick Google and came up blank; can anyone do me a favor, find a documented example of a coat-hanger abortion, add the citation to the article, and prove these
AbortionFacts people wrong? Much obliged. --
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I rewrote the methods section to delete details of dangerous methods and anecdotal stories from doctors, instead replacing it with the World Health
Organization protocols and a review of the current literature on self-induced abortion methods globally.
1360:? It is hardly the case that everyone in the world has access to abortion pills. As for the appearance of malice, your edits were followed by your accidental deletion of my talk page comment, which did lend to an unfortunate appearance of misbehavior.
1571:, and a Google search returns about three times as many hits for "self-induced abortion" as for "self-managed abortion". Google Scholar returns about nine times as many hits for "self-induced abortion" as for "self-managed abortion".
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Does anyone know what happened to the
Gabriela Flores case? All sources on the web seem to be rehashings: she spent 4 months in jail and could face 2 more years in prison. By now it should be clear whether she was indeed convicted.
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Yes, which is why I start the sentence in the methods section with: "The most commonly recorded are ingestion of plants or herbs, ingesting toxic substances, causing trauma to the uterus, causing physical trauma to the body..."
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1387:, I'm not suggesting that at all. Of course those methods are still used, just not as frequently as in past decades. At least that's what the science documents. A recent scoping review (
596:, so anyone who comes searching for "coat hanger abortion" would greatly benefit from this redirect. My only regret about this article was that I didn't get an opportunity to vote
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It looks like in restoring sourced content you actually removed far more sourced content than you restored. Could you elaborate on what was wrong with the other material, or can
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and/or actually changing the title? I realize that may be quite bold for a new wikipedia editor but want to keep this article relevant. Thanks for your thoughts. --
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We do agree! Women must know that sharp-object and bleach abortions will kill them, and this is the place to be sure to impart this knowledge. /Lakshmi Singh
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I have removed this for two reasons, first because it is unsourced, and second because it does not seem to be specific to abortions that are self-induced.
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Very interesting. I'm not sure if this would be considered relevant to this article but here's another recent bit of news: Jane Sutton, "
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I just read a rather startling thing while doing some partisan research for an abortion debate I'm having with a friend. This is from a
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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666:?? srlsy LOL, i'm still laughing x]. i hope girls who are thinking of abortion (in any country) don't get ideas from this article
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My updates include new scientific information and research, new and updated sources, and advances in medicine. /Lakshmi Singh
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I have reverted your deletion of sourced content. If you want to add content to the article, that's fine, but
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says that she was released on her own recognizance, and that there were five similar cases in the state from 2000 to 2004.
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Self-induced abortion is a well-reported scientific fact, and so it is reported here. Perhaps a better analogy is the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Are you suggesting that sharp objects, abdominal blows, douches, and other methods are no longer being used
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I disagree. The article, titled "self-induced abortion" should include the horrors of the coat hanger.
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on
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I would say, then, that it is inaccurate to describe methods still in use as merely historical.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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You need to discuss your intent to remove large amounts of content. Please get
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592:", because that's a very notable term, I've heard it discussed at length and
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differentiates the types currently in use, whether they be legal or not. --
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when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
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Self-induced Abortion and the horrors of failed attempts at self-induction
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wow, learning so much already. self-induced abortion it is. thanks --
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Florida man admits he tricked girlfriend into taking abortion drug
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An Idaho woman could change the course of American abortion law
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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article, which describes the various ways the drug is taken.
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for Knowledge's health content are defined in the guideline
830:(December 21, 2012). On self-induced abortion these days. –
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Four+ years after the fact, but in case anyone is reading,
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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reverting back to an earlier stable version (apologies to
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Start-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
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I have removed the following text from the article:
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clinical publications about evidence-based medicine
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1297:-- it may be good to migrate that here FWIW. --
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1276:DataNerdMPH
1226:DataNerdMPH
1046:miscarriage
548:—Preceding
363:Start‑class
148:free images
31:not a forum
1657:Categories
1164:Report bug
818:New source
577:Resolved:
496:(limit to
1147:this tool
1140:this tool
832:Roscelese
798:Roscelese
628:AxelBoldt
509:provides
490:provides
220:citations
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1153:Cheers.—
840:contribs
806:contribs
600:on it.
584:Redirect
562:contribs
550:unsigned
397:Abortion
388:Abortion
360:Abortion
218:Include
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1219:Methods
1077:my edit
977:LPSingh
950:Jim1138
932:LPSingh
913:Jim1138
903:LPSingh
887:Jim1138
869:LPSingh
855:Reuters
335:on the
242:C-class
202:dispute
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1614:BD2412
1576:BD2412
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1358:at all
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1194:death.
1034:WT:MED
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770:source
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722:heroin
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683:murder
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554:Mtanti
488:PubMed
248:scale.
126:Google
416:Start
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1645:talk
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598:Keep
558:talk
524:and
505:The
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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1121:RfC
1091:to
573:VfD
527:CDC
430:???
327:Low
176:TWL
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