Talk:Shen Kuo - Knowledge

3037:(Hun Yi Yi) Shen Kuo noted, "In a distance of only 500 li between north and south, there is more than one degree deviation in the North Pole." During the process of compiling and editing the Works and Days Calendar (Shou Shi Li), Guo Shoujing measured on the spot the height of the North Pole at 27 places with different latitudes. The data varied from 15 degrees (in the South China Sea) to 65 degrees (in the North China Sea). Obviously, they accepted the deviation between the height of the North Pole in the south and in the north as natural and did not consider it worthwhile to search for its causes. Great scientists like Shen Kuo and Guo Shoujing were not even aware that this is an important matter related to the shape of the earth. If a spherical earth hypothesis had existed in ancient China, this could not have happened. 3199:

and maximum elongations. Shen and Wei therefore planned a series of observations of a kind not proposed in Europe until the time of Tycho Brahe, five centuries later: exact coordinates read three times a night for five years. Similar records were to be kept for the moon's positions, since previous Sung systems had still used the lunar theory of I-hsing, which after 350 years had accumulated considerable error. This program of observing was the most unfortunate casualty of the obstruction within the Bureau. Shen and Wei had no recourse but to produce a conventional planetary theory based mainly on old observations. They were able to correct the lunar error, but even this proposal provoked such an outcry that it would be vindicated only by a public demonstration using a gnomon.

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latter used the gnomon shadow and the length of the solstitial day to determine latitude, the former were also perfectly aware that the shadow length varied continuously in the north-south line. The Chou Li says that the Surveyors (Thu Fang Shih) concern themselves with the method of the gnomon shadow template for determining the sun's shadow length, and by its aid measure the earth, constituting fiefs and principalities, i.e. presumably fixing their boundaries. As for longitude, the Chinese were no worse off than the Greeks. Its measurement with any degree of accuracy did not become possible until the 18th century, with the invention of the marine

1046: 1025: 582: 1892: 1882: 1864: 513: 342: 711: 572: 545: 3736:). (It may be made to) float on the surface of water, but it is then rather unsteady. It may be balanced on the finger-nail, or on the rim of a cup, where it can be made to turn more easily, but these supports being hard and smooth, it is liable to fall off. It is best to suspend it by a single cocoon fibre of new silk attached to the centre of the needle by a piece of wax the size of a mustard-seed—then, hanging in a windless place, it will always point to the south 910: 1691: 1326: 190: 1670: 1308: 865: 1537: 1521: 3807:). The Superintendent of Merchant Shipping gives them an unofficially sealed red certificate permitting them to use the light bamboo for punishing their company when necessary. Should anyone die at sea, his property becomes forfeit to the government...The ship's pilots are acquainted with the configuration of the coasts; at night they steer by the stars, and in the day-time by the sun. In dark weather they look at the south-pointing needle ( 1240: 1219: 1056: 701: 680: 1586: 1565: 333: 1596: 1784: 1763: 979: 954: 2210: 2176: 2037: 1996: 469: 223: 2190: 2166: 2142: 2126: 2116: 2092: 2082: 2061: 2047: 2010: 648: 407: 375: 894: 1336: 4047: 3900:* 2.1 Raised-relief map * 2.2 Pharmacology * 2.3 Civil engineering * 2.4 Anatomy * 2.5 Mathematics and optics * 2.6 Magnetic needle compass * 2.7 Archaeology * 2.8 Geology * 2.9 Meteorology * 2.10 Astronomy and instruments * 2.11 Movable type printing * 2.12 Other achievements in science and technology * 2.13 Beliefs and philosophy * 2.14 Art criticism 3756:

the traditional time of the discovery of declination, by Columbus in +1492. The two kinds of needles mentioned by Shen Kua may of course have been magnetised at different poles of the lodestone, but there may also have been another origin for this traditional idea (see on, p. 267). The analogy with cypress-trees can only have rested on local observation of curvature due to prevailing winds.

1794: 1151: 1423: 1392: 1130: 926: 489: 827: 795: 1433: 3834:) was in charge of this. Needham writes that this Chinese phrase for the person in charge of compass readings on a ship was used until 18th century. The second source he describes is one by Xu Jing, written about thirteen years after Meng's book, which describes a diplomatic mission to Korea and use of the south-pointing floating needle. 3619:, which I plan to do now and for the rest of the night until I go to bed. I will try to address this issue later in the week, perhaps even tomorrow if I can squeeze in some time. Thanks for taking an interest in this article! As you rightfully pointed out, some of the language needs copyediting and rewriting altogether. Cheers.-- 417: 3761:

accepted this, when it now has universal consensus. He then goes on to describe the various magnetized lodestone tools the Chinese used for geomancy in the previous centuries. But after this, on pages 279-280, we get to the part where he describes the first textual evidence for its use by mariners navigating at sea:

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When the point of a needle is rubbed with the lodestone, then the sharp end always points south, but some needles point to the north. I suppose that the natures of the stones are not all alike. Just so, at the summer solstice the deer shed their horns, and at the winter solstice the elks do so. Since

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You're right, discussion of the compass and movable type printing shouldn't be given so much space in the introduction, but they should certainly remain prominent given that Shen was the first literary figure to describe them. I would not be opposed to a rewrite of the third paragraph either, so long

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Once again, this passage implies that his five-year project had already begun under his stewardship, although it was never completed due to it being thwarted by his subordinates in the Bureau who were aligned against him politically. Just to be safe, I will get rid of the statement in the intro until

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more religious and aesthetic purposes (although tomb sculptures and statues were made to reflect how personal attendants and real soldiers actually looked). I tried to edit the page to include this web source, but I am blocked from doing so, since it is being featured on the main page at the moment.--

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From about 1040 AD, Shen's family moved around from Sichuan province to the international seaport at Xiamen as Shen's father accepted new posts of governance in each new territory. He observed not only the various towns and rural lands of China, but also the various aspects of his father's engagement

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Ok, I have indicated the names of the Needham volumes, added two more images, fixed many of the parentheses, and along with getting rid of some of the block quotes, provided more extensive prose to explain the ones I decided to keep. I also got rid of any random Wade-giles spelling, although the ones

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Hi Sebastian. Sorry that I did not address your concerns over the weekend. My grandmother on my mother's side, the last surviving grandparent of mine, had a stroke recently and passed away just yesterday after going into the hospital over the weekend. I'll focus on this article sometime later in the

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Here, then, we have not only the undeniably earliest clear description of the magnetic needle compass in any language, but also a clear statement of the magnetic declination. Some Western historians of science have been willing to recognise this, for example Cajori (5), although it greatly antedates

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Similarly, the third paragraph appears very uneven; it dedicates several lines to such details as his reasons for thinking about geomorphology and his description of movable type printing (which was not his invention), while many of his own achievements, such as in anatomy and mathematics, for which

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Shen wrote that in the Zhiping reign period (1064–1067) a man of Zezhou unearthed an object in his garden that looked like a serpent or dragon, and after examining it, concluded the dead animal had apparently turned to "stone". The magistrate of Jincheng, Zheng Boshun, examined the creature as well,

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I checked the reference. Unfortunately, it does not support this. It says the following: "Shen and Wei therefore planned a series of observations of a kind not proposed in Europe until the time of Tycho Brahe (...) This program of observing was the most unfortunate casualty of the obstruction within

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Why is the Nuremberg woodcut image included? Does it have any relation except that some people say it depicts a UFO, and some people say the pearl story is a story about a UFO? If that's the only connection, I think the picture should be removed. It might give people the impression there's a more

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The drawing of Shen Kuo is unreferenced and is apparently based on nothing more than the author's imaginings. If so, I believe that it is inappropriate to publish this in our encyclopedia. We should leave the fantasy to the History Channel and stick to the facts -- and if there is no visual record

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Xiamen, or did he move 'around' within an area defined by these two places? What were his father's posts? There's a double use of 'various' in the second sentence. 'Towns and rural lands' is clunky, and 'engagement in administrative governance' could be replaced with 'administrative career', or even

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doesn't prove anything, it is strange that it would say such a thing; where does this idea come from? Also, while it's hard to imagine a compass without a needle, it is not impossible to use a lodestone for that purpose. I also wonder how the idea arose to rub a needle long enough to a lodestone to

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The lead section introduces Mengxi Bitan only in connection with the compass, and there it dedicates a whole paragraph to this one particular instrument, which he didn't even invent. I am tempted to change that to a sentence about the Bitan, move it together with the fourth paragraph, and merge the

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I have to agree with madman. I think the lack of an 11th century source for the bust from which the drawing was produced should be clearly stated in the image caption. Something along the lines of, "this drawing is based on a bust of unknown providence and may not reflect Shen Kuo's true likeness".

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Well then, the first statement in the last paragraph here seems sufficient for Needham's assertion about Shen Kuo being the first to describe the magnetic compass. One is reminded of just how dated this source is (i.e. finished and published by 1962), since he says a few historians of science have

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What a wonderful gift! And well deserved, seeing how you are putting it to good use. Now, of course that will take some time to be sorted out in the afterlife: 沈括 owes you one, you owe to the gift-giver, who in turn owes to the publisher, who owes to Needham, who owes to 沈括, and the rest of us all

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The incompetent career officials who staffed the bureau stymied him. He forced the dismissal of six whom he caught falsifying records of phenomena. Those who remained doomed his program of observations and kept his new system of ephemeris computation from being among the two or three most securely

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thwarted, but Shen and Wei were able to use the five years of simultaneously recording the position of the moon to correct the lunar error. So yes, they did sit around for five years plotting the positions of the planets and moon, even though the planetary positions were ultimately rejected by the

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The boldest aspect of Shen's program was the attempt to predict the apparent positions of the planets—not merely their mean speeds and prominent phenomena—for the first time. The computational tools available did not permit this to be done with a few observations of stationary points, occultations

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Unfortunately they do not date the bust, but it looks modern, 20th century. Chinese in pre-modern China always had their portraits taken in the form of painting, never with busts really. Sculpting was not as highly revered by the cultured scholar official as painting was. Statues were reserved for

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About a quarter of the Citations are from Sivin (1995), III; which I've found online in PDF format (posted by Sivin as assigned reading for his courses). The problem is that each PDF page has slightly less than each book page, causing a gradually increasing mismatch so that by the end there's a 2

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As we're thinking about the lead section, here are some other consideration I'd like to mention. When I read an article in any encyclopedia, I am looking for a clear definition, if possible, in the first sentence. Currently, the first sentence is very hard to parse, because of the parentheticical

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Needham's language here certainly isn't strong enough (i.e. should have stressed that it was the absolute first, which it was, instead of lumping it into the category of "one of the first"). Therefore, I will try to hunt for the passages in other sources which I used to write that section. In the

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I just edited the Scholary achievements section by placing Mathematics into its own sub-section. I am furthermore relieved to say that I believe everything that needs to be in Shen's article is definitely included, and at 49 kilobites, his article is about 1 kilobite shy of being either a bit too

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page difference (33 pages in book to 55 pages in PDF). Should I link it anyway or not? If so, should I include some kind of note (where/how would I do that)? Or perhaps I should just link the references for those citations where the relevant content is on the same page in both the PDF and book?

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It's jumpy. Why start with "Raised-relief map", and why is that followed by "Pharmacology"? "Magnetic needle compass" seems much closer to "Astronomy and instruments" than to "Archaeology". Why is "Civil engineering" wedged in between "Pharmacology" and "Anatomy"? Is there any sequence we could

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as segments of what we should call right ascension...What the Chinese wished to determine was not, of course, as Maspero well says, the celestial longitude of the observed star, but the longitude of the point of intersection of its hour-circle with the ecliptic. Movements of sun and moon on the

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The mention of astronomical aspects of the map grid raises at one the question to what extent the Chinese cartography of Phei Hsiu and Chang Heng was keyed to celestial phenomena. In this respect there would seem to have been little difference between the Chinese and the Greeks, for while the

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I don't think it failed due to the quote, but rather because I was the only one who supported the article's promotion. Still, a bit bizarre it wasn't kept for longer. I do think that one quote would not hurt the article in any way. Perhaps renominate with one quote, and if people complain, then

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Ok, this is a great article, but the reason it has failed to be promoted for FA status is because one had problem with quotes of Shen's writing being in the article (saying that it added nothing to the article). I completely disagree. However, it just dawned on me, this entire time I could have

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The Chan source is voodoo. It says nothing whatsoever of any relevance - at least, as far as I can see. I assume Chan 15 is page 15. I see you've taken it out now - that seems correct. I'm interested, though: have you yourself read the other ref and verified that it contains the relevant info?

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The article is really much better without the quotes. Because they're translations, we don't really learn anything about Shen's writing style, and they were sooooo long and filled with unneeded information. As for the rest of the article, there is a lot of awkward prose in there, for example:

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I also feel that this article is too dependant on large block quotes. I think that the quotes should either be shortened so that they do not comprise the vast majority of The Scientific Writing and Theory sections and Philosophy section, or that these sections could be expanded to reduce their

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Thank you for bringing this up! I checked back on my old Needham reference, and indeed the previous statement was not entirely unsupported. Needham says that works of Shen Kuo and many Japanese mathematicians of the 17th and 18th centuries dealt with circle principles that seemed very akin to

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Yes, I was fortunate enough to receive the majority of Needham's volumes as a Christmas gift a few years ago, I believe in December 2006. The gift-giver found an incredible discount on the books, largely because they were published in Taiwan by Caves Books Ltd., with permission from Cambridge

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As far as this topic "Lead section uneven" is concerned, I think we're on agreement and I know what to do - if I had the time. However, there are a couple questions that just came up when I worked in the Scholarly achievements section (see below), which will also have an influence on the lead

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Maybe to English speakers it sounds like chinky-ching-chong but Shen is the surname and Kuo is the first informal name. This article continually refers to him as Kuo. That would be like saying in the Albert Einstein article, "Albert did this and that." Or referring to Thomas Edison as Tom. Or

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So although Shen Kuo reasoned that celestial bodies such as the sun and moon were spherical, it appears he held the old Chinese notion that "heaven is round, earth is flat." A shame. The text goes on to say that the first Chinese person to introduce the idea of a round earth into the Chinese

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Haha! Man. He must have found the Taoist elixir of immortality...and then ran out of it when he was about three hundred and nineteen years old. Lol! That's ok, we all make mistakes. It is misleading to the eye though, since the main page does not give the dates for his life, yet the article

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Hello Nydas. I changed those sentences you had a problem with, and furthermore reworded an awkward sentence in the "Geological theory" section. However, like you said, this article needs a lot of copyediting review. I think I will call upon the magical League of Copyeditors for this one.

3728:, written about +1088, i.e. a century before the earliest European mention of the magnetic compass, as our fixed point, and to work back from that, considering all earlier references to the directivity of iron magnets, as well as other Sung texts. This important passage runs as follows: 3518:

Also, I approve of the hard work you've been doing in copyediting the article over the past month. I'm the one responsible for bringing this article to featured status, but that was in 2007, and I've since become a better writer! :) Your recent contributions are certainly commendable.

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I edited one example of what you said, but really, all of the others (and there are only a few as far as I can see) are necessary within understanding context. Such as comparing the intensive astronomical map plotting of planetary motions to the later work of Tycho Brahe (a good

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about the lodestone being utilized by jade gatherers. Perhaps somewhere a scholar argues that this tool could be considered a compass proper, even without the magnetized needle. In any case, let's now focus on article organization, which I will try to address this weekend.

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Among such needles there are some which, after being rubbed, point to the north. I have needles of both kinds by me. The south-pointing property of the lodestone is like the habit of cypress-trees of always pointing to the west. No one can explain the principles of these

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is targeted towards native English speaking adults and teenage adolescents still in high school or even middle school. None of the articles on this site are tailored to children younger than middle schoolers, especially considering the very mature nature of some topics.

3562:, which says: " notes that in addition to its main purpose, the compass, or “south pointer” as the Chinese called it, could be carried with jade hunters to prevent them from getting lost during their journeys." So, how relevant is Shen Kuo's mention 1200 years later? — 3250:. On page 7 (note that the pages don't align perfectly with the hardcover book, which I believe has this info on the previous page 6), after stating Shen's plans to record daily observations over a five-year period "using renovated and redesigned instruments", it says: 2715:

I just want to say thank you to everyone who supported this article, my very first article brought up to featured article status! It was a pain in the butt and required lots of patience and hard work, but it was worth it. And in the afterlife, Shen Kuo totally owes me.

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by the difference between true and magnetic north, and if so, did he succeed? To measure travels east or west would have been a very important advance, and seems well within his capabilities once he had accurately established true north as opposed to the position of

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The scientist names are already covered in the infobox, as fields in which he worked. That is a better place for such a list, so I would propose to keep that list only there. I would also like to move the variations of his name into the infobox, as described at

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they were made in Europe, we would similarly reference it, and likewise for any other region of the world. It may be true that some of the articles about Tycho Brahe etc. do not fully take into account earlier developments in China. This should be rectified.

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You are mixing Wade-Giles and Pinyin romanization. The majority of the article is in Pinyin, but you must convert the Wade-Giles into Pinyin before the article is passed. If you need assistance in this regard please let me know, as I can help convert the

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magnetize it. Maybe they noticed that the needles who had stuck to a lodestone got magnetized themselves, and then curiosity and impatience did the rest. Of course, this is not the right place for such speculation, but I couldn't resist mentioning it. —

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I agree. There could be a link to the article on UFOs, but the woodcut is irrelevant and unnecessary since it relates to a different event. Otherwise we could add images of modern UFO sightings, which would be of as much relevance. Please fix this soon.

3417:. Is there still a problem? Chan's source is not "voodoo" at all; I had used it to correctly cite three sentences in a paragraph above from the same source (i.e. Dream Pool Essays) and discussion (which I incidentally also used Needham to cite with): 3069:

Linnaeus as Carl. Or Washington as Georgie. Using a first name is for best friends and your mom. And Kuo is rarely (if ever) a Chinese surname. Maybe if this was an Icelandic article using the first name would be fine, I don't think it is. Fix it.

3580:, but it means virtually nothing without further proof. As not fully explained in that Florida State University site, the so-called "compass" during the Warring States, Qin, and Han was merely a lodestone bowl and large spoon used for the 3911:

Beliefs and art criticism don't fit in this section. The other sections all can be considered "science and technology" (according to Needham's use of the term "science"). Should these be moved to a section of their own? What should it be

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There are too many examples of things being hundreds of years before Europe, especially in the introduction. This is arguably Eurocentric, given that stuff about Newton or whoever won't have 'hundreds of years before China' all over the

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It was merely a stupid clerical error on my part to continue citing with Chan (instead of just Needham) in the following paragraph on petrified bamboo and the landslide which revealed them. There's no "voodoo" here that I can see. Good

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Lol. Thanks for bringing this to attention. I fixed all the loose and single "Kuos" lingering about without a "Shen" before it, simply replacing them with "Shen" or "Shen Kuo" or "him" or "he." If you can find anymore, feel free to fix

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Thank you for the thorough reply; that was an interesting read! Yes, I agree, it's settled for the purpose of this article. Still, there seems some room for scholars to find out more. While you're right that the statement in the

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Here it will be best to proceed as we did with the magnetic compass as such, and will allow the story to develop around a central text. It so happens that this text is approximately contemporary with the words of Shen Kua in the

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I'm sorry to hear that; I hope she had a long and happy life, and that your family will harmoniously celebrate her life. The work on this article can wait; it is at least as good now as it was when it was a featured article.

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That's fine. I'm pretty sure that's the only instance where I made that sort of mistake (I don't see myself doing that often), but if you find anything else of this or any other nature that needs correcting, let me know.

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Thank you for your kind message! I agree completely with you. I realize I may have been unclear about the compass; of course it should be mentioned. Do you have access to Needham's opus? As I am rereading the section

3173:"Alongside his colleague Wei Pu, Shen accurately mapped the orbital paths of the moon and the planets, in an intensive five-year project that rivaled the later work of the Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe (1546–1601)." 3837:

So, Sebastian, I hope this is settled then! Hopefully later in the week I will have time to address your concerns below about article's organization. In the meantime, I cannot wait to work on notes for the article

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Unlike the other two, this article only has a lot of parantheses in the quotations. Nevertheless, I still think many of these should be removed. I don't think that their removal will affact the integrity of the

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Needham's passage is odd for another reason: He must have gleaned tons of information about all manner of things from the Bitan, but the passage sounds like he introduces this work just as a side remark to the

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The bust clearly looks modern. The portrait sculpture was I think completely unknown in China at this date. We should caption the drawing "modern artist's impression" or similar, and not in a note.

3811:). They also use a line a hundred feet long with a hook at the end which they let down to take samples of mud from the sea-bottom; by its (appearance and) smell they can determine their whereabouts. 2882:

On the main page, it says that the guy lived from 960–1279, though the information in the actual article does not show this outrageous number. I guess that's one way to get people to look inside!

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I think at least one of the quotes should be put back, just to show how he wrote about scientific subjects. The eclipse quote in particular is quite enlightening. The article was much better before.

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Not quite. It's based off of a sculpted bust of Shen's head. I wouldn't expect you to know that unless you read the Featured Article Candidate page for this article, so I'll let that slide. Lol.--

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A related question is about the section introduction, which largely duplicates the text we discussed for the article lead above. Should we merge or differentiate these? If differentiate, how? —

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I think a good compromise would be to pare them down a lot, and keep them directly relevant to the subject at hand. (Where's the failed FAC tag? It provides a handy link to the nomination..) --

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I just added some more valuable information to Shen's "Career and later life" section, outlining his professional relationship with Wang Anshi and his diplomatic embassy to the Liao Dynasty.--

3783:. He knew what he was talking about, for his father, Chu Fu, had been a high official of the Port of Canton from +1094 and Governor from +1099 to +1102. The essential passage runs as follows: 4633: 1944: 2999:

Traditional Chinese astronomy never extended the ecliptic degrees to form 'segments' of celestial longitude radiating from the pole of the ecliptic in the same way as they thought of the

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Since there's a list of all of the Dream Pool Essays subjects on its own article, they need not be included here (lists like that are generally frowned upon when it comes to FAs anyway).

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After explaining the early history of map making and grid making in Chinese cartography from the 3rd century BC to the 3rd century AD, Needham states on pages 542-544 of his 3rd volume:

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Magicians rub the point of a needle with the lodestone; then it is able to point to the south. But it always inclines slightly to the east, and does not point directly at the south (

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If it is based on a bust of Shen Kuo, it should say that somewhere, describing when the bust was created as well. We need to reference images just like we reference words. Thanks,

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It's really stupid that one person can entirely derail a nomination. I personally think that while some of the quotes could be moved over, some of them should stay in the article.

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founded before modern times. Shen's personal involvement in later stages of the reform undoubtedly was limited by his gradual movement into the vortex of factional politics.

3610:, the date of which is about +1086, is one of the first books to describe the magnetic compass, and later we shall take it as a fixed point in the analysis of this subject. 1846: 3592:

mentioned in regards to navigation, something the FSU site fails to mention. This most essential component of the compass is not mentioned in literature until Shen Kuo's

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we have whole sections, are not mentioned at all in that paragraph. I think it would make more sense if that paragraph were just a brief overview of the subsections of

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on Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the

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The essential point is that all the indigenous Chinese and Japanese work remained at the static level, while the dynamic approach was due to Newton and Liebniz alone

4838: 4683: 4653: 4643: 2417:) did not think so or share your sentiment, otherwise the article would have stayed as a candidate for at least an entire week (nominated May 1, booted on May 7).-- 628: 4212: 147: 4888: 4384: 4380: 4366: 4264: 4260: 4246: 1938: 303: 204: 4828: 4713: 4703: 1528: 1402: 737: 3233:

to be kept". Now, if Shen did make these observations, this is not immediately obvious from the source, so another one should probably be found for that line.

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Chan is used here as an extra reference to Joseph Needham's source, which is the prime source that I've used for the info on climate change. If you look at

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Very good point, I have kept that list in the Dream Pool Essays article, while deleting it from Shen Kuo's article. The article looks smoother now, too.--

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dependance on the quotations. Having the large quotes in the writing section, is in my opinion not an issue, that the topic addresses the writing itself.

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Yes, I wish there was more conclusive textual evidence from the Warring States Period about use of the compass, but all we have is the statement in the

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The complaints I am voicing here are pretty much the same as in the last two articles (Su Song and Zhang Heng), with an addtional issue with images.

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Awesome! I'm glad that this article has been chosen to be featured on the main page! I'm also thrilled that my work will be advertised a bit. Lol.--

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Nydas, I think this is acceptable for cases where things were demonstrably independently discovered in two locations. Similarly, the article about

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I have decided to keep are from direct quotations of Needham's books, and should not be reworded for sake of faithfulness to the actual quotations.

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the south and the north are two opposites, there must be a fundamental difference between them. This has not yet been investigated deeply enough.

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Using the Chan to support the cliamte stuff looked like voodoo to me. But as you say, it was merely an error on your part which you've corrected

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Anyways, here are some of the relevant Needham passages I will share with you about the compass. From pages 249 to 250 of Volume IV, Part 1:

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What's the rationale behind the current arrangement of subsections of the scholarly achievements section? We currently have the following:

3637:, which has only the abridged version, and not even all volumes of that on the main campus! Take your time; I'm busy with other things, too. 4868: 4623: 4578: 4125: 3545:, I noticed the weasel language "one of the first references". Is that really what Needham writes, or was it added by a cautious editor? — 439: 3931:

insertion of two lines of names and romanizations. The second sentence no better, with a list over 3 lines of scientist names attached.

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and noted the same scale-like markings that were seen on other marine animals. Shen Kuo likened this to the "stone crabs" found in China.

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I just made some major edits to the article, creating a new sub-section and expanding several others. I hope people enjoy the read!--

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

3602:. As for the statement with weasel language, this is in fact Needham's exact words from page 135 of Volume 1 about Shen Kuo's book: 3598: 1905: 1869: 1158: 1135: 1069: 1030: 3815:

Here then is a very detailed statement of the use of the mariner's compass just about a century before its first mention in Europe.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20120324024938/http://www.dahsm.medschool.ucsf.edu/history/IntroCourseIPDF/Sivin_ChineseMedicine.pdf

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Song court. This rejection, however significant to political history, is insignificant in regards to the history of science.--

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I will write more once I read more about developments in the following Tang and Song dynasties. Hold on to your bootstraps!--

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I hesitate to tamper with this, though, because it is still largely the same as when it became a featured article, in 2007.

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the Bureau. Shen and Wei had no recourse but to produce a conventional planetary theory based mainly on old observations."

4342: 1045: 1024: 74: 4506:), so any citations provided by him have since been removed from the article. Thanks for making the observation, though! 4192: 3842:, which I plan to rewrite entirely (just look how dilapidated that article presently is, a huge shame at Wiki). Cheers.-- 4427: 4307: 4216: 985: 959: 355: 2653:

Agreed. When I edit over a long period of time I really don't notice that type of thing, yet I suppose you are right.--

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070707034017/http://www.zhenjiang.gov.cn/gb/zgzj/zjgb/lyzpd/fjjc/userobject1ai12068.html

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just 'job'. The article's prose needs to be gone through with a fine toothcomb. Only then will it be feature-worthy.--

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content on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070409190926/http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_madeinchina/2003-09/24/content_72415.htm

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practice of orienting objects in one's environment to harmonize one's setting with the natural order. Nowhere in the

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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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I’m afraid this text about Shen Kuo, it’s hard for little kids to research and it doesn’t make any sense to them.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070707032710/http://rosettastone.wordpress.com/2006/04/30/shen-kuos-bamboo-shoots/

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Why is he sometimes called Shen Gua? Is it a different name, or a different way of transcribing the same name?

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meantime, I'm trying to desperately use some of my spare time to take notes and rewrite the article on the

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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Dainian Fan and Robert Sonné Cohen, they have this to say of Shen Kuo's work with latitude on page 431:

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It's a remarkable piece of work which no doubt will continue to grow and even improve. Hats off to you.

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Shen Kuo (1031-1096) and Guo Shoujing (1231-1316) are representative of Song and Yuan astronomers. In

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I have added "modern artist's impression" to the caption. Sorry, but we need to be straightforward.

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article, and any valuable information from the quotes have been converted into prose explanations.--

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I'm sorry but the article mentioned something about calculus. But, didn't Newton invent calculus.

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Thanks. Two possible pronunciations of one character is a possibility that hadn't occurred to me.

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You need to indicate the name of the volumes in addition to the number for the Needham references.

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