Talk:Surname - Knowledge

1411:: 1) the historical opposition of "surname" to "Christian name" as the two parts of a personal name, which makes "surname" sound oldfashioned, and 2) the other meaning of "surname" that we find in dictionaries, what we might term the Shakespearian meaning. This second meaning is the one I would use the word for, i.e. a name like "da Vinci" or "Redbeard" or, as Ariadne55 suggests in starting this section, the second word in "Elton John." Non-native speakers of English seem to prefer "surname" in the sense of "family name," so the older meaning is probably destined to fade, but it is instructive to note that it appeared more obsolescent to the 1930s editors of Merriam-Webster's Second Unabridged than to Gove's team on the 1221:, or something else. For example, for a time in Norway, many surnames were two names, the combination of a patronymic or matronymic and a "farm name", the place where they lived, and which would change if they moved. However, most historical Norwegian figures were upper-class people who were of families that adopted the "family name" convention relatively early. There are also current cultures where the surname may change and is not based on a family name; for example, in India, it is not uncommon in some sub-groups for a person to change their surname to reflect their occupation; see 31: 854: 1928:

diacritical remarks in California, regulations about characters that may be used in a name). Moreover, the Naming Law article itself should probably be expanded to reflect general rules for names that apply to both given names and surnames, especially since many parents in the U.S. (and probably elsewhere) choose to name their child with a surname that is a combination or (and different from) the surname of either parent. --

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and we can add "of Arabia" and "Barbarossa" or "Redbeard" and "the Great" and "the Conqueror" to this list. I was taught in school (in the United States) that "surname" applied in these cases and was a sort of nickname but called "surname" precisely to distinguish it from the "family name," which might be, say, Hohenstaufen. The intro to the new article should make some allowance for this. Initially it might link to

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many surnames that are not family names. For some, "Desiderius" was a surname taken by Erasmus, etc. If I am wrong, i.e. if there really is a consensus in favor of this merge, do we have a draft of the merged version? Otherwise, I propose removing the recent merge tag and trying to improve the two articles in parallel. Am I missing something?

1696:" depends on relative frequency of use; I like surname since it's shorter but if people really use "family name" more often these days, we should go with that. I understand that even though "last name" is certainly more common than either, there are sensible objections to using it in order to cover all surnames across all cultures. Still, per 1947:"A surname or family name is a name added to a given name. In many cases, a surname is a family name and many dictionaries define "surname" as a synonym of "family name"." How I read this: 1. SN (=FN)= N added to GN. 2. Often SN = FN, & many dictionaries say SN = FN. Seems weird to me because in 1, SN=FN but then in 2, SN OFTEN = FN. 3476: 2025:

the last name first, but with an s appended (presumably making it a type of genitive) and usually prefixed with an article, so "Klaus Mair" would the called "der Mairs Klaus", "Maria Schindler" would be "die Schindlers Maria" etc. This is oral only, nobody would write their name like this, but in spoken language, it is quite common.

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Please don't. I was resigned to this merge fourteen months ago (as above) but have been thinking on it and can no longer support the merge. There is just too much difference in secondary meanings and nuances between the two expressions, surname and family name, in my experience. There are just too

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I added a link to the article on Naming Law. (This is in addition to the link to Surname Law which exists already.) The Naming Law article presently discusses mostly rules about what given names may be used in different countries, but some of its content may relate to surnames as well (e.g. bans on

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describes many things which are not family names including Icelandic patronyms and Spanish surnames. And of course your assertion that surnames are last names is wrong too; Chinese surnames are certainly not last names, and some people have neither surnames nor family names nor patronyms nor any kind

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This section of the article a) has little citations and b) only includes a few subjectively-chosen ethnic groups. I assume this section of the article was created to list surnames of non-dominant ethnic groups who don't have their common surnames under "Common Surnames of articles or sections. But,

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Yes, some modification of will no doubt be in order after the merger has been completed. Another problem that will need to be addressed is the second dictionary sense of "surname," i.e. something between a nickname and a (needed) epithet. The textbook example used by Merriam-Webster is "da Vinci"

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At one point in this section it's talking about Uralic name order, then it disconcertingly launches into a diatribe on Sami name changes without an appropriate lead-in. It reads very copy and paste. As I myself don't know enough about the subject matter and the only citation is a unrelated blog post

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all on one page. That should make it easier to address the underlying consideration that something is drastically wrong in the way this article is skewed against native-speaker or Unites States English. For today I've simply fixed the weird reference to the OED that was actually to the website OUP

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Also, the construction "it is commonly synonymous with 'last name', since it is usually placed at the end of a person's given name" is a definition conveying incorrect information -- sequence has no relation to its synonymity. (That the "last name" is the family name is the reason, not it's position

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What I give is not the same type of options that you were giving. Your options stated that you were going to do something against other's intentions if they didn't do something you wanted them to do. You were not following the right procedures to move/redirect/merge a page. I was pointing that out.

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The sentence says "But there are parts of Europe that also follow the Eastern Order, such as Hungary, Austria and adjacent areas of Germany (that is, Bavaria)". I don't know about Austria, but being from Bavaria I can confirm that it is common there (and often things are similar in Austria) to put

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because it is usually placed at the end of a person's full name, after any given names" (the one vandalized) seems to beg for revision. One might naively expect a 'surname' be referred to as a "surname," as indeed it is by a substantial minority of native speakers ;-). There are two main reasons

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Only existing overlap, is in "Western" society. One concept is a position (order) of name, First/middle/last, the other is a hereditary name a family name, and it's "overlap" is that in western society the last name is the family name and the surname. A Surname is not necessarily a family name, a

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and it has nothing to do with "Western society" but with the English language. From the above comments, it seems some editors think that "last name" and "surname" are synonyms while "family name" is distinct; in fact, it's the opposite: "surname" and "family name" are synonyms and general, while

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While the article definitely needs work, and the concept of surname is closely intertwined with "family name" in most western cultures, there are some very real and important differences between a surname and a family name, both in minority western cultures and in non-western cultures. Besides

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By keeping this article separate it gives the many people who think that surnames are the same things as family names the impression that Knowledge has a useless discussion of surnames. This makes the article worse than useless because Knowledge does have an excellent discussion of surnames at

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Don't usually edit stuff... but I passed by the article and thought that the introductory matter needed some serious help just in definition. The word is sur + name == over + name, meaning something like "common name" -- it historically identified your affiliation to some group, like family or

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in 1961. A glance at the real OED (second edition) confirms the established nature of the byname-nickname sense as late as Tennyson. I'll check the third edition of the real OED before attempting to rectify the issue. However, what would mean more to me is the thoughts of some of you other

2674:. It was at some later point that surnames became family names – when Cooper's son inherited the name, even if he didn't take up the profession. So, essentially, in modern usage sur- and family-name are equivalent, unless someone can cite a society somewhere in the world where they aren't. – 1054:

names. Several hundred years ago, members of the same family could very well have been James Cooper and Anne Baxter, based on their professions rather than their family. Even today, some people have a last name that is not based on what family they belong to, e.g.

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Usually articles seem to be overly focused on a view point of someone living in the United States... however this article seems to focus on every culture but American and/or English. Also I don't understand why this isn't just part of the Family name article

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In any case, I have no idea what a surname is according to this article; all I know from it is that "family name" is sometimes defined as a synonym of "surname" and that some surnames are family names and/or vice versa. From your comment I am no more

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Theoretiaclly, are there becoming fewer days as time passes? Lots of couples marry every day, and in certain countries the wife takes the husband's surname as hers. Is this theoretically correct? Will there be fewer used surnames in the future?

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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. The former page's talk page can be accessed at

1765:" is the one of these that legitimately doesn't overlap with the other two and yet finds no defenders. I have no problem with it redirecting to the merged article (the primary sense is certainly surnames) but it (technically) covers straight 3103:, it is common to reverse the order of the given and family names for the convenience of Westerners, so that they know which name is the family name for official/formal purposes. Reversing the order of names for the same reason is also 2648:

says there are four broad classes of surnames: first-names, localities, occupations, nicknames – that is, classes of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish surnames in the United Kingdom, the British Commonwealth and the United States.

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runs. Perhaps this is related to the problem, as was perhaps the apparent December vandalism from 72.56.168.217 who may have been trying to address something related to Anglocentrism or who knows what. In any event, the Fjf1085

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nyms. In any case, this usage must be extremely rare and cannot be used as tht main term in wikipedia, since Google search does not give valid references (the term is used in other meanings, it particular commonly as a typo for

3358:"The meanings of some names are unknown or unclear. The most common European name in this category may be the Irish name Ryan, which means 'little king' in Irish Gaelic. Also, Celtic origin of the name Arthur, meaning 'bear'" 1179:

however the current article is worse than later and therefore I do most definitely care that it is not this worse-than-useless one. I do not know if there is a correct procedure for moving the discussion from here to there.

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last name is not necessarily a family name, nor is a family name necessarily a last name. Knowledge is a Worldwide encyclopedia, and it needs to be written with that in mind, not just one "society" view of something.

2907:, rationale: "I removed {Citation needed}: just go to Finland, Estonia or even Karelia and read or listen to the people... Edited, completed about the Finns, I'll do more about that (later)", changed the text to: 3153:

and increased communications with foreigners prompted many Samis to reverse the order of their full name to given name followed by surname, to avoid their given name being mistaken for and used as a surname.

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Felix, you cannot give options to users about what you will do to a page. IF you want to redirect the page, a consensus MUST be reached. If you cannot reach a conensus, then the redirect will not happen.

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Also, I think adding Matrilineal surnames within Family name would muddy the latter's clear-flowing waters. Keeping Family name a purely patrilineal article would be less confusing for readers.

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The editor provides the reference " Cottle, Basil. Penguin Dictionary of Surnames. Baltimore, MD: Penguin Books, 1967" Please provide the exact citation from this book, since it is not visible.

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I was confused by the same thing. It should be fixed by now, but I am a little unsure about the correct way to go about it—striking the second sentence seems to lose a somewhat important nuance.

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The above comment by Fjf1085 dates from before major revision work to the article, which has greatly improved the overall situation. This includes merging and so forth, such that we now have

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Two separate, even though congruent in most of western society, and distinct concepts - articles do not need to be merged. Perhaps a little copy-editing to remove the repetitiousness?

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While doing this complex reorganization, I filled in a few gaps with the help of "A Dictionary of Surnames", the Hanks & Hodges book, which I checked out from my local library. –

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Its preview on Amazon indicates that surnames predate family names. Initially, when John (the) Carpenter died, his surname died with him. His son might have been named Paul (the)

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Name etymologists classify European surnames under five categories, depending on their origin: given name, occupational name, location name, nickname , and ornamental name. A

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article, which had useful links and information on other languages as well. I think this shows a distinction between Surname and family name and justifies separate articles.

1604:"In Chinese, last names come first" is perfectly straightforward to any native English speaker and rather belies your point (albeit you're right we wouldn't want to use 934:

There probably is worthwhile information that could be put in a "surname" article, but I don't know anything about it. I'd suggest this page be deleted as essentially a

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Zapatero or Lorca, for example, are mentioned by their second surname without saying their first name. “Federico Lorca” or “José Luis Zapatero” wouldn’t be used.

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editors. I'm not sure the two I mentioned are still active. There needs to be something in the lede to clarify between dictionary definitions 1 and 2 of

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name. Some cultures use a patronymic where other cultures use a surname or family name; other cultures (like Russia) use both a patronymic and a surname.

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and accelerated international exchanges pushed many people to reverse the order of their full name to given name - surname, so that they are not called

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and accelerated international exchanges pushed many people to reverse the order of their full name to given name - surname, so that they are not called

2915:, it is common to reverse the order of the given and family names for the convenience of Westerners. Hungarians do the same when interacting with other 2880:, it is common to reverse the order of the given and family names for the convenience of Westerners. Hungarians do the same when interacting with other 3546: 1489:

The section on Hebrew patronymic surnames could usefully be expanded to clarify whether the similar constructions in other Semitic languages (Aramaic

1312: 938:, but there are so many articles that are just lists of people with a given surname that I do think there should be a general article about surnames. 1078:

No. This article is a small, worse-than-useless stub. Common usage, as described by this article, is that "surname" and "family name" are synonyms.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20160102072805/http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=72ddc06b-4660-4b92-8b92-3a26ae24b377&k=5969

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So as I look at these two articles, which I haven't studied before, I see a lot of content, and a full merge doesn't seem practical. Some form of

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really meritorious? If the page was linking to such material, there are a number of better sources. This would be better as a reference.

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This needs to be clarified. It says some names' meanings are unknown then proceeds to give examples of such names and what they mean ??

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These will need some reconciliation, as there isn't a totally straightforward overlap between these. It's possible that different name

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The next editor, with the edit summary: "ugh... i hope someone else can make sense of it.... i did the best i could!", changed it to:

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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In Japan and Hong Kong (China), when people of Japanese or Hong Kong Chinese origin, respectively, write their personal name in the

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In Japan and Hong Kong (China), when people of Japanese or Hong Kong Chinese origin, respectively, write their personal name in the

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In Japan and Hong Kong (China), when people of Japanese or Hong Kong Chinese origin, respectively, write their personal name in the

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structure of their societies. Surnames have been imposed by the dominant authorities: evangelists, then administrations. Thus, the

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structure of their societies. Surnames have been imposed by the dominant authorities: evangelists, then administrations. Thus, the

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structure of their societies. Surnames have been imposed by the dominant authorities: evangelists, then administrations. Thus, the

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or (b) make this a useful article or, at the very least, a useless one. But whatever: It needs to stop being worse than useless.

3541: 2479: 2236: 181: 158: 3242: 2391:. I suppose one could think of "the Magnificent" as a surname, or a surname derived from an epithet, but as of today neither 2212: 1654:

family name: A hereditary name shared by members of the same family, as distinct from a given or personal name; a surname.

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move Tibetan surnames under China, and Assyrian to Asia/Middle East), created into its own article, or just deleted.

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a "family name", that is, until John does get married, and has a son who grows up to be a rocket scientist. Then the

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I don't have any sources for this right now but in Austria the surname is very rarely placed before the given name.

1704:, we should just go with one and redirect from the others: there's really no need for something needlessly long like 2992: 2645: 2610:

Right, John (the) Carpenter is an unmarried orphan with no relatives, and none of his genetic ancestors were ever

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tag removed; from that followed a request to {{expand}} the article from its "dictionary-definition-stub status".

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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there is some specialized sense of either term in anthropology (which I frankly doubt) and editors can find

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I've added a small section at the bottom reflecting Rajesh Pilot's concerns. The information comes from the

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If surname does not always (or usually) refer to a family name, what should be the content of this article?

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in Norwegian, I would suggest that if the Sami section isn't rewritten, the paragraph should be deleted.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=72ddc06b-4660-4b92-8b92-3a26ae24b377&k=5969

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surname: The name which a person bears in common with the other members of his family...; a family name

866:"What's in a name? Are surnames derived from trades and occupations associated with lower GCSE scores?" 3519: 3339: 3069:(a first name), just like Japanese, some Koreans, Chinese or some Vietnamese do, for the same reason. 2943:(a first name), just like Japanese, some Koreans, Chinese or some Vietnamese do, for the same reason. 2456:

says "Name etymologists classify European surnames under five categories, depending on their origin:

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restructuring is needed here, I think. Taking a look at the history, to see how we got to this point:

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Given the existing overlap, a single article highlighting the distinction, would be more appropriate.

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I'm getting started on this. It will take a while, and I may take several steps to implement this. –

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An editor insists of the usage of the term "technonymic surname" instead of "occupational surname"

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of using a mononym. There are many names that can be used as either given names or surnames, e.g.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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s based on distinctions that simply aren't made in the English language and stick with using the

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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Just count the number of occurrences of "family name" in the surname article and vice-versa.

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indicates that surnames may be grouped into several more less broadly-construed categories.

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http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/01/12/man_files_lawsuit_to_take_wifes_name

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article, which was labeled as a disambiguation page, though it didn't look like one. The

2383:(from Greek: ἐπίθετον epitheton, neut. of ἐπίθετος epithetos, "attributed, added") is a 2196: 3265:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 3179:

I'm still having trouble parsing this. It seems like too much detail for this level. –

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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PS: You apparently can give me options about what users can do to pages, but I can't?

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This new section is dependent upon a DNA presentation. DNA is already presented in

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name, there is no such thing as a surname that is not a (potential) family name. –

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

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Inside the compound section, should we add info about Quebec compound surnames (

3272: 2826: 2815: 2767: 2721:: Name acquired from one's father's, grandfather's or earlier (male) ancestor's 2718: 2590: 2392: 2274: 2208: 2192: 2037: 1976:"Derived from a nickname"? I would call this "derived from a characteristic ." 1794: 1693: 1342: 1210: 1172: 1133: 1129: 1108: 1104: 1087: 1083: 1039: 985: 3271:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2525: 2521: 2457: 2093: 2086: 1218: 1214: 1123:, I don't think the chance of someone clicking them is substantially reduced.) 1060: 3399:

I think this section should either be: split up and moved to other articles (

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When those from Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong write their personal name in the

2476:(3). This classification can be extended to surnames originating elsewhere." 897: 890: 2761: 2611: 2535: 1762: 1605: 1079: 989: 186: 84: 63: 992:? (Yes, I do the the topic above; however, my question was not answered.) 3169: 3085: 2979: 781: 3495:

Also, please do not change redirects until the disagreement is resolved.

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s of our topics. They should simply be merged. Whether we should go to "

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Surnames after divorce CAN THE MAN MAKE THE EX CHANGE THERE NAME BACK?

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Online Etymology Dictionary. Douglas Harper, Historian. 10 Dec. 2007.

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many Americans do not call the kind of name this article is about a

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saw no change or a transformation of their name. For example: some

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saw no change or a transformation of their name, for example: some

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saw no change or a transformation of their name, for example: some

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Knowledge:Deletion review/Log/2009 July 6#Category:Jewish surnames

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Place it in Family name? or in Surname? or in Matrilineality?

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Knowledge level-4 vital articles in Society and social sciences

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says: "Most surnames of British origin fall into seven types:"

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You stop watching this for a while, and all hell breaks loose!

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traditionally did not have surnames, perhaps because of the

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Except that I no longer am looking forward to this. See

1501:) are also used as surnames, or only as true patronyms. 1111:

but because this article has lots of useless links like

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Knowledge vital articles in Society and social sciences

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I have completed merging the most important content of

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Scottish surnames § Categorisation of Scottish surnames

2195:

is the older of the two. Its history dates back to the

2141: 1835:"Last name" was not proposed to be merged with these. 1132:

again. If you want me to stop doing that: (a) redirect

830: 1899: 1773:, &c. that are not passed down within families. — 1739:

or some such... but even such sources don't alter the

1307:

Jewish surnames category deleted again; see discussion

3567:

B-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences

864:

Williamson, Joanna; Bramley, Tom (1 September 2022).

3425: 3379:

Ayers is a company of organic farming setup in 1934

2215:. A content fork at that title wasn't started until 1171:

At the very least we should move this discussion to

185:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 96:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3275:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2774:name of one's mother's or from a female ancestor's 2692:. I was saddened when I looked at their user page. 1608:as the main article space, owing to concern about 1330:Where to place a new section, Matrilineal surnames 2756:: Tracing descent only through female lines. See 2374:A family name can also be derived form a nickname 3426:put a lot of hours into cleaning this article up 2448:Categories, types or classifications of surnames 2293:, indicating a characteristic, or an achievement 1733:es to vouch for them, they could be spun off to 2792:List of people who adopted matrilineal surnames 2112:, have traditionally availed themselves of the 3439:Was that vandal reverted?? No, their edit was 3261:This message was posted before February 2018. 2788:List of people who adopted matronymic surnames 2323:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surname 1706:surnames, family names, and last names (names) 1091:of inherited name, but still have a last name. 3434:triggers an earthquake @15:54, 4 January 2019 2199:. September 15, 2001 – when it was edited by 1107:. (The article does of course have a link to 8: 2572:Baltimore, MD: Penguin Books, 1967. No ISBN. 1793:I'm going to move this conversation over to 1018:Because some surnames are not family names. 2715:: Pertaining to descent through male lines. 2622:Carpenter has been transformed into a mere 2371:is just one of five categories of surnames. 2287:, a name indicating a circumstance of birth 3061:until recently, when integration into the 2935:until recently, when integration into the 2043: 2003: 1985: 1665:Here at the English Wiki, we should avoid 263: 252: 147: 58: 3225:I have just modified 2 external links on 1883:I'll look forward to the merged version. 1747:of these namespaces being the exact same. 881: 840:Talk:Surnames by country#Merge to surname 2770:: A surname or byname acquired from the 2690:contributed by this 14 October 2009 edit 2480:Family name § English-speaking countries 1817:Nevermind, it would make the rfc messy. 1034:Surname is not a synonym for family name 3200:2600:6C5A:4C7F:FF31:D519:A4B5:64F7:563A 3162: 3077: 3015:. Reversing the order of names is also 2951: 2919:. Reversing the order of names is also 2872:The 14:59, 24 August 2011 version said: 2606:many surnames that are not family names 2604:is "a type of surname", and there are " 2548: 2492:Personal characteristics – this is the 2302: 255: 149: 60: 19: 2605: 2429:changed it to "often referred to as a 2345:The "epithet" meaning and the link to 536:Indication of family membership status 3031:didn't need surnames, because of the 2962:didn't need surnames, because of the 2129:List of people with given name Wilson 7: 3577:Top-importance Anthroponymy articles 2528:or ancestral, often from a person's 1128:I will redirect the article back to 984:Why is this page not connected with 179:This article is within the scope of 90:This article is within the scope of 3194:So, just wait wait long enough and 2829:has been restructured and moved to 2644:Hmm. One of the cited sources, per 1943:The opening paragraph seems strange 795:on 11 June 2016. The former page's 522:Gender-specific versions of surname 49:It is of interest to the following 2256:To make this early version of the 2124:List of people with surname Wilson 375:Patronymic and matronymic surnames 110:Knowledge:WikiProject Anthroponymy 14: 3587:Top-importance Genealogy articles 3441:endorsed @06:28, 28 February 2019 3229:. Please take a moment to review 3196:a vandal will sort it out for you 3149:. Recently, integration into the 1978:2001:470:D:468:5C0F:D2D:F26B:5913 113:Template:WikiProject Anthroponymy 3547:Knowledge level-4 vital articles 2600:Getting back to the idea that a 2137:Talk:Family name§Merger proposal 1341:, but would need to be added in 852: 838:without leaving a redirect: See 817: 780: 244: 172: 151: 83: 62: 29: 20: 3394:Common Surnames by Ethnic Group 3241:Corrected formatting/usage for 2905:This 16:29, 25 August 2011 edit 2570:Penguin Dictionary of Surnames. 2387:, or a descriptive title, e.g. 2033:Fuse these two articles, please 219:This article has been rated as 199:Knowledge:WikiProject Genealogy 130:This article has been rated as 3557:B-Class level-4 vital articles 2993:'''Aslak''' ''Jacobsen'' Hætta 2058:10:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC) 361:Origins of particular surnames 202:Template:WikiProject Genealogy 1: 3572:B-Class Anthroponymy articles 3505:19:00, 21 February 2021 (UTC) 3491:17:30, 15 February 2021 (UTC) 3348:15:39, 13 December 2017 (UTC) 2809:Family name merged to surname 2399:contains the word "epithet". 2357:A surname is not a nickname, 2207:was created as a redirect to 2135:You missed the discussion at 1971:10:25, 12 December 2016 (UTC) 1923:"See Also" section of article 1893:17:10, 8 September 2014 (UTC) 1856:04:37, 23 December 2013 (UTC) 1831:04:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC) 1807:03:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC) 1783:02:23, 20 December 2013 (UTC) 1641:They're not distinct concepts 1626:02:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC) 1556:22:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC) 1530:13:26, 25 November 2013 (UTC) 1511:12:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC) 1038:The article is distinct from 973:01:24, 23 December 2013 (UTC) 948:17:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC) 929:23:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC) 678:Portuguese-speaking countries 193:and see a list of open tasks. 104:and see a list of open tasks. 3329:15:00, 6 December 2017 (UTC) 2089:, not a surname. As for the 2077:19:21, 28 October 2015 (UTC) 1938:17:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC) 1912:19:10, 28 October 2015 (UTC) 1598:02:15, 2 December 2013 (UTC) 1572:23:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC) 1451:09:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC) 1378:02:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC) 1254:14:59, 31 January 2009 (UTC) 2867:Sorting out an old addition 2646:the book summary on Amazon, 2251:removed after just ten days 1430:12:42, 7 January 2018 (UTC) 1362:20:49, 21 August 2009 (UTC) 98:the study of people's names 3603: 3582:B-Class Genealogy articles 3453:19:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC) 3389:19:13, 25 April 2020 (UTC) 3353:Unclear or Unknown Meaning 3292:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3222:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3212:19:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC) 2822:, per the consensus above. 2748:Matrilineal vs. Matronymic 2707:Patrilineal vs. Patronymic 2361:, rather a surname may be 1736:family name (anthropology) 1479:23:18, 26 April 2013 (UTC) 1213:, a surname may also be a 1028:20:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC) 965:2013 December 22 1:25 Z 648:Informal traditional names 633:Spanish-speaking countries 136:project's importance scale 3415:05:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 3370:20:23, 17 June 2019 (UTC) 2861:22:36, 11 June 2016 (UTC) 2825:The remaining content of 2555:Bowman, William Dodgson. 2417:, often referred to as a 2018:09:56, 20 July 2015 (UTC) 1957:22:15, 16 June 2015 (UTC) 1460:Is that external link to 1398:objection remains topical 1235:20:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC) 1203:22:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC) 1185:06:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC) 1166:05:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC) 1150:05:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC) 1046:last names, not just the 1012:01:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC) 218: 167: 129: 78: 57: 3528:16:15, 11 May 2022 (UTC) 2846:Talk:Surnames by country 2804:21:44, 13 May 2016 (UTC) 2743:16:42, 13 May 2016 (UTC) 2688:Surname classifications 2626:. As this can happen to 2389:Suleiman the Magnificent 2225:a well-developed article 2139:: Consensus to merge of 1992:18:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC) 1325:22:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC) 1073:17:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC) 806:Talk:Surnames by country 93:WikiProject Anthroponymy 3218:External links modified 3189:18:02, 6 May 2016 (UTC) 2835:Knowledge:Summary style 2702:18:58, 7 May 2016 (UTC) 2684:15:10, 7 May 2016 (UTC) 2659:14:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC) 2640:22:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC) 2516:Territorial designation 2443:00:33, 6 May 2016 (UTC) 2409:00:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC) 2363:derived from a nickname 2349:were removed with this 2176:19:29, 5 May 2016 (UTC) 2096:, that appears to be a 2083:Desiderius (given name) 1998:Order of names: Austria 1300:18:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1274:01:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 902:University of Cambridge 332:Medieval era and beyond 3542:B-Class vital articles 3428:, and then this joker 2197:beginning of Knowledge 3109:Baltic Fennic peoples 3021:Baltic Fennic peoples 2925:Baltic Fennic peoples 2557:The Story of Surnames 2505:Geographical features 2427:18 December 2011 edit 1761:Somewhat bizarrely, " 936:dictionary definition 450:Occupational surnames 182:WikiProject Genealogy 116:Anthroponymy articles 36:level-4 vital article 3273:regular verification 3142:Aslak Jacobsen Hætta 3095:The current version: 3054:Aslak Jacobsen Hætta 2844:talk page is now at 2790:. Shouldn't that be 980:Redirect/combination 3263:After February 2018 3137:Hætta Jáhkoš Ásslat 3049:Hætta Jáhkoš Ásslat 2831:Surnames by country 2758:Matrilineal surname 2454:Surname § Formation 1182:Felix the Cassowary 1147:Felix the Cassowary 1042:because it's about 836:Surnames by country 801:provide attribution 789:Surnames by country 420:Ornamental surnames 405:Cognominal surnames 270: 3334:José Luis Zapatero 3317:InternetArchiveBot 3268:InternetArchiveBot 2780:Matronymic surname 2731:Patronymic surname 2665:other cited source 2351:18 April 2008 edit 2264:, it should read: 2231:became "a type of 2085:, Desiderius is a 883:10.17863/CAM.99626 465:Toponymic surnames 264: 205:Genealogy articles 45:content assessment 3293: 2927:and the and the 2620:occupational name 2614:. So the name is 2509:Toponymic surname 2487:Occupational name 2462:occupational name 2433:or 'last name'". 2421:, was "a type of 2281:of "family name." 2217:December 11, 2007 2060: 2048:comment added by 2020: 2008:comment added by 1994: 1859: 1842:comment added by 1601: 1584:comment added by 1559: 1542:comment added by 1485:Semitic languages 1469:comment added by 1303: 1286:comment added by 1209:possibly being a 1014: 998:comment added by 912: 911: 847: 846: 824:On 11 June 2016‎ 812: 811: 775: 774: 770: 769: 766: 765: 663:Compound surnames 619:Multiple surnames 576:Compound surnames 435:Acquired surnames 265:Section size for 239: 238: 235: 234: 231: 230: 146: 145: 142: 141: 3594: 3464:as section title 3432:comes along and 3327: 3318: 3291: 3290: 3269: 3172: 3167: 3096: 3087: 3082: 3057:— as it was the 3004: 2995: 2990: 2956: 2931:— as it was the 2908: 2894:Uralic languages 2873: 2777: 2773: 2754:wikt:matrilineal 2724: 2713:wikt:patrilineal 2573: 2566: 2560: 2553: 2341: 2335: 2325: 2319: 2313: 2307: 2260:page conform to 2248: 2242: 2144: 1858: 1836: 1828: 1827: 1804: 1803: 1780: 1779: 1746: 1745: 1738: 1732: 1731: 1703: 1702: 1687: 1686: 1680: 1679: 1672: 1671: 1623: 1622: 1615: 1614: 1600: 1578: 1558: 1536: 1481: 1302: 1280: 993: 975: 961:as the "last".) 905: 885: 870:Research Matters 856: 849: 833: 821: 820: 814: 784: 777: 680: 665: 650: 635: 607: 592: 563:Surname of women 538: 497: 482: 467: 452: 437: 422: 407: 392: 377: 349: 334: 319: 271: 253: 248: 247: 241: 225:importance scale 207: 206: 203: 200: 197: 176: 169: 168: 163: 155: 148: 118: 117: 114: 111: 108: 87: 80: 79: 74: 66: 59: 42: 33: 32: 25: 24: 16: 3602: 3601: 3597: 3596: 3595: 3593: 3592: 3591: 3532: 3531: 3512: 3510:Quebec surnames 3460: 3422: 3396: 3377: 3355: 3336: 3321: 3316: 3284: 3277:have permission 3267: 3235:this simple FaQ 3220: 3177: 3176: 3175: 3168: 3164: 3094: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3083: 3079: 3002: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2988: 2957: 2953: 2903: 2871: 2869: 2811: 2775: 2771: 2768:wikt:matronymic 2750: 2722: 2719:wikt:patronymic 2709: 2663:And the TOC of 2578: 2577: 2576: 2568:Cottle, Basil. 2567: 2563: 2554: 2550: 2474:ornamental name 2450: 2339: 2333: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2321:Dictionary.com 2320: 2316: 2308: 2304: 2246: 2240: 2219:. At the time, 2213:August 15, 2002 2140: 2035: 2000: 1963:Thomas Tvileren 1945: 1925: 1870: 1837: 1825: 1823: 1819:Here's the link 1801: 1799: 1777: 1775: 1743:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC 1741: 1740: 1734: 1727: 1726: 1698: 1697: 1682: 1681: 1675: 1674: 1667: 1666: 1620: 1618: 1610: 1609: 1579: 1537: 1518: 1487: 1464: 1458: 1438: 1332: 1309: 1281: 1262: 1246:Reconsideration 1242:Icelandic names 1050:names that are 1036: 982: 966: 917: 863: 829: 818: 771: 731:Further reading 676: 661: 646: 631: 603: 588: 534: 493: 478: 463: 448: 433: 418: 403: 388: 373: 345: 330: 315: 258: 245: 204: 201: 198: 195: 194: 161: 115: 112: 109: 106: 105: 72: 43:on Knowledge's 40: 30: 12: 11: 5: 3600: 3598: 3590: 3589: 3584: 3579: 3574: 3569: 3564: 3559: 3554: 3549: 3544: 3534: 3533: 3511: 3508: 3459: 3456: 3430:64.110.241.161 3421: 3418: 3395: 3392: 3376: 3373: 3354: 3351: 3335: 3332: 3311: 3310: 3303: 3256: 3255: 3247:Added archive 3245: 3219: 3216: 3215: 3214: 3174: 3173: 3161: 3160: 3156: 3117:Uralic peoples 3101:Latin alphabet 3089: 3088: 3076: 3075: 3071: 3029:Uralic peoples 3009:Latin alphabet 2997: 2996: 2960:Uralic peoples 2950: 2949: 2945: 2913:Latin alphabet 2878:Latin alphabet 2868: 2865: 2864: 2863: 2849: 2838: 2823: 2810: 2807: 2784: 2783: 2765: 2749: 2746: 2727: 2726: 2716: 2708: 2705: 2609: 2587: 2586: 2575: 2574: 2561: 2547: 2546: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2534:Patronal from 2532: 2519: 2514:Estate names: 2512: 2506: 2503: 2490: 2477: 2449: 2446: 2412: 2411: 2377: 2376: 2375: 2372: 2337:disambiguation 2327: 2326: 2314: 2301: 2300: 2296: 2295: 2294: 2288: 2282: 2270:may refer to: 2244:disambiguation 2183: 2182: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2178: 2159: 2158: 2157: 2156: 2155: 2154: 2133: 2132: 2131: 2126: 2108:, for example 2034: 2031: 2029: 2027: 2026: 1999: 1996: 1990:comment added 1975: 1944: 1941: 1924: 1921: 1919: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1896: 1895: 1869: 1868:second meaning 1866: 1865: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1751: 1750: 1749: 1748: 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