2551:
serious and factual wikipedia page of a real person LPB. On the other hand- at least 7 witnesses (more than 4 of them with open identities, 2 of them speaking in top time tv show interviews, others telling theirs stories in respectable magazines , and ALL of them long time devotees of swami maheshwarananda ) are not thrustworthy , not enough "hard evidence" to take a notion of the possbility of sexual abuse had ahppened ? Victims of sexual abuse/mind control have problems of facing the ( horrible ) reality so it is known fact in psychology that such cases are often popping out later the 5 years period of the actual abuse and that is unfortunately too long period to make court case in most countries. If almost WHOLE BOARDS of YIDL in Serbia and
Australia had resigned ( more than 30 people ) - claiming in open letters ( Swami Chidanand ) that the sexual abuse allegations are real - and we are talking about people that were in YIDL for a long periods of time, some of them for more than 30 years ( very close and important associates of SM ) and most of them with more than 10 years of being in YIDL doesn't that ring a bell?
2434:
someone said that the references were no good, therefore the deletion. Okay, so I researched the references, found pretty good ones, and lo and behold! - deleted again. Without comment. Then, finally, a comment: now it wasn't the references, but the content. So I dug up more references, posted it again. Others pointed out that the newspapers which published the reports were, after all, decent and in part high quality media, but the followers now said that these newspapers only quoted one and the same witness. Which turns out to be not true (more references, more countries). Post it again. Again deleted. And then you come along and say that because I posted this so often, I cannot be neutral. And therefore, this doesn't belong here. That's
Kafkaesque to the extreme. And please note: All the entry says is that there are these reports; it even includes the disclaimer that the Swami and his org are denying the allegations - though as I found out and pointed out above, the NZ org does not deny the allegations.
2836:
entries, too). In other words, change the face of
Knowledge to a considerable extent because if the abuse headlines don't belong to Maheshwarananda's Knowledge entry and if we want to have some equality policies here, a whole lot of information which is neither the subject matter of legal court cases, nor has been admitted by the alleged culprit to be true, has to be deleted. If, on the other hand, one wishes to keep Knowledge as it is and harmonize the Maheshwarananda entry with the rest of Knowledge (rather than the other way round), the sexual abuse issue should be included in the article. So: Include or change Knowledge. Also, I would like to point out that in this case, no decision is a decision, i.e. it would by default favour the "delete"-side - and yet not through argument, but through mere inaction (calculated or not). Hence my plea to come to a decision, please.
1573:
heart-searching). I understand that this is not what followers like to have on this site, but it is part of
Maheshwarananda's public persona, and there is ample reporting on this issue. The original entry (now back up again) made it clear that Maheshwarananda and his organization deny the allegations, and there are several links and references. Just erasing this without giving a good reason is not a very productive way of managing this entry and its objectivity. Remember, this is not an advertisement space or a place to honour one's guru maharaja, but it is an encyclopedia entry. The current entry does not say that he did, nor does he say that he didn't do it. It reports that there have been allegations, and that some journalists followed these cases and found them to be believable. Merely disliking this is not a good reason for erasing it.
2593:: Knowledge is not a platform for combating real or imagined harm done to others, but it is an encyclopedia. The promotional tone of the article needs to be curtailed, but that's a different matter from making allegations of sexual abuse. I find that many Knowledge biographies of saints, gurus and cult leaders are biased in favor of such personalities, unless he/she gets convicted by a court for some crime, and in this case a conviction is unlikely to follow. In BLP, polemical sources are often discarded by default, so it's hard to get criticism in such articles. But that's what follows from Knowledge policies. If you ask me the real abuse wasn't having sex with the guru, but drinking his feet-bath water. If one performs the later, the former is a rather trivial issue.
1765:
media reports. Those are referenced. I think there is little room to dispute the fact of the media reports. Then, keep in mind the guidelines for biographies of living persons, which say: "If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well-documented, it belongs in the article – even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it." I think reports by reputable news sources qualifies for "well-documented". Knowledge articles requires a neutral point of view, I therefore need to ask you to make the effort and please try to think like someone outside of your little cult for a moment, and understand that the public has a legitimate interest in being informed about negatives as well as about positives of the person in question.
1241:
most frequently used in the public. Later when
Wikidas attempted to changed the little I began to wondered what is his "real name" as per passport, so I made the inquiry. The information that his formal and legal name in his passport is Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda, I got from his secretary (I believe). The problem of this discussion however, is that I have mentioned at the beginning of all this talk, that this in fact is his formal and legal name, but for some strange reason nobody really cares about that.
2516:
this person has made headlines in the past few years. It might be damning headlines, but that should not count as much as the fact that if the Swami was in the media during the past few years, it was precisely because of the sexual abuse allegations. I guess
Knowledge would be much less informative if we applied the same criteria to other living person biographies. Please, therefore, reconsider whether we should continue to pretend that there were never such reports.
2152:
slander? All of this is not a minor detail. An article which, for example, claims that Swami started to meditate when he was three years old, that there are "thousands of YiDL centers around the world (proof? addresses?), and does not back this up, may at least also cover the fact there are some fairly well references allegations of sexual abuse. In fact, the documentation for these allegations is way better than almost everything else in this article. (
1689:. Because yet again it's gone, deleted by the very same 62.201.19.45 who always deletes the bit about the sexual harassment, and does so without argument, without comment, and even after the references were updated. 62.201.19.45's Knowledge history references ONLY changes on this site, or, more precisely, only this one change: deleting this paragraph. Please stop, this is not a place to censure entries, it is a place for information. Thanks
1849:
1077:
and that documents provided will not be misused to violate laws of personal privacy. I am not at all clear how is this then handled on Wiki. In what form and to whom are this documents to be communicated, who verifies their accuracy and so on. To my knowledge there is no such statement on the internet. I never heard of a dispute like that (about the name) before. Normally you show your passport and documents and that's it.
2667:
of a journalist reporting on it. So, what do we end up with? I always thought that one of
Knowledge's strengths was that it offers information beyond mere basic data. But if we need to stick to basic data, we may need to just leave the most basic facts there: name, job description (yoga teacher), birth date and place and books he wrote. I'd call this process unwikipediation, but if that's what "we" want, so be it.
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ambitions to be a spiritual leader is relevant and important. Also it would be interesting to add that a person that promotes his system of yoga and healthy living is a person with long list of health problems ( severe heart problems ) and obesity. So, let's be honest and simple - allegations are heavy and well documented and their place is on this wikipedia page. Period.
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1151:(to translate it those who do not know what honorifics stand for: Vishwaguru Mahamandaleshwar Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda Puri - "Teacher of the universe" - "The lord of the arena of sacrifice" "Super-human-being" Swami Maheshwarananda "Pure". After AFD it was renamed only to "Super-human-being" Swami Maheshwarananda. I am sure it is his 'passport' name...
1470:
track his whereabouts and go meet him. To my understanding, it is not a celebrity of such kind that he would be unapproachable. Then, if asked politely I am sure, you can have a look in to his passport. Ignoring the truth inevitably results in violation of Wiki rules. The name of the living person with a biography on Wiki should at least be what it really is.
1261:
living people with bio on Wiki be ready to show the passport at any time to anybody? Maybe mediation would be a good start? Clearly it is a simpler path, if
Wikidas tries to find proof for himself only, rather than for a general public. There are methods how to verify somebodies real name. I did that to a reasonable extent, but cant do that for you
2373:
the result. The article makes wild unsubstantiated and inconsistent claims about Yoga in Daily Life (e.g. MS developed it, doctors developed it, it is ancient and presumably therefore older than both MS and the doctor who developed it, etc.; his gurus are held to be avatars of Siva, but there is no reference, etc. etc.)
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See it like this: Knowledge has strict guidelines for the biographies of living persons, which by default reject adding such allegations to the article, unless there is hard evidence for them. I am not happy with the removal of such information, but I understand that we have to play by the rules even
2200:
Please note that the paragraph did not claim that Swami sexually abused people; it referred to the fact that in recent years, such allegations have been reported in a number of media. Given the references, this is difficult to deny. Wouldn't it seem a little bit dishonest if we failed to mention this
1028:
If a guy in Bronks would choose to be called
Vishwaguru Saint and would become notable, Wiki would be required to use his name as a title in his biography. The problem here is that one culture is mutilating another culture by badly applying well meant rules. Names as required by the person to present
1024:
Depends upon how far back you looked. I did not originally author that sentence. I have removed the modified version which said, He uses his honorific title... That is in fact not true. What matters are facts and not little tricks. His name was given to him some 45 years ago by his Guru. That became
2561:
Ler me cite this line from wikipedia own policy on LPBiographies : " If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well-documented, it belongs in the article – even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it." If such obvious allegations and INCIDENTS as those on sexual
2515:
Furthermore, and strictly speaking, the evidence needed for the claim that there are media reports on sexual abuse by the Swami are the references themselves (provided). It still seems very strange to me that you claim that on
Knowledge, one cannot even mention the one fact about a person with which
2376:
I readily admit that the fact that the fact that the abuse passage is being deleted again and again and again made me especially sensitive to what is happening here. I have no personal ties to, nor did I have any, to Swami Maheshwarananda, so I am relatively neutral, yes - besides the fact that I am
2277:
And by the way, nobody blocked the Abuse section as Lakata claimed. It's up there again because unless decided otherwise, and for objective reasons, it is part of Swami's public persona. A google news search suffices to prove that. Reports, from DIFFERENT people, have appeared in Austria, Australia,
1240:
Here is how things stand. When I originally submitted the article, I simply specified entire title, because I did not know better. Then somebody suggested that it should be shortened, I had no problem with that, because the name Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda is used on his books and it is the name
1133:
Now what can I say more to it? How can someone first claim to find no way to change a title "in to something shorter" (at a time 4 honorifics and a name) and now claiming that he is in a direct possession of that same guy's utility bills and passport that states current now much shorter article name
1076:
Yes. We are talking here about a living person with a residence in Austria in Vienna. There are documents like proof of residence which shows his name. Then the passport, personal ID, etc.. However, this dispute must then be raised to high enough level by Wiki admin's that this will seem appropriate
856:
is legaly part of his name as per passport. If you are regarded as worthy of it in India, you can have that (honorific spiritual title) as part of your name in passport. Swami is also a title. It means monk and there could be thousands of Maheshwaranandas. There is just no way, you can cut the legal
2858:
I have just removed the allegations because at least one of the sources, "Smythers, P. Sexual Abuse in Yoga Groups: The Case of Swami Maheshwaranda. Journal of Social Group Processes 33:1", seems to be made up in whole cloth. I couldn't verify the existence of the journal or the article. Two others
2666:
TGeorgescu: To repeat, and you can check this yourself: These are not, as you claim, polemical sources. To call profil polemical is a bit like calling Time magazine and the Economist polemical. If you mean that the nature of the allegations is scandalous - perhaps they are, but that's not the fault
2550:
Dear Georgescu, please let's be objective, but really objective :Hard evidence? This whole article is based on "not at all" sourced, and to be honest, more than biased claims that serve more as a marketing tool for a personality cult ( and sound more like a fairy tale than a LPB ) rather than as a
2433:
To Demiurge: ... for a moment, try to get into my shoes ... how would you react if you read an article in a good and trusted political news magazine (profil) and posted the content of this article on Knowledge. And then your passage would be deleted about 6 times without any comment? Then, finally,
2372:
You can look up my former name, it was something like Diogenes and then a number. I forgot my password. I am asking for neutral people not because I think that they necessarily agree with me, but because the back and forth is utterly unproductive. Additionally, it is not the motive which counts but
2269:
Okay, so does anybody know how to involve neutral, non-partisan Wikipedians in the dispute of whether the fact that reports of sexual abuse have been published in five different countries is noteworthy information about Swami (or not)? It may also be noteworthy that in a recent declaration, the New
1469:
Passport of a living person is a reliable source. My word may not be enough, but anybody is free to verify it with enough interest in the subject. Reluctance to make the effort does not count to disqualify those who did make the effort. For example, because this is a living person, you can actually
1360:
Because of redirects it is not possible to move the page back to its original name. The original name discussion was done on the talk page in great extend several months ago. It was agreed to keep Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda. Explanation: Paramhans doubles as title and legally first name as per
1127:
I was also considering how to change the title in to something shorter, but did not find a way. I disagree though with plain dismissal of facts, especially by people whi are really not in to yoga in similar things and not interested in the subject. Has anyone even checked the list of links provided
2894:
Maybe you care to explicitly state which of the references do not support the given content? Each of them does, so your claim is just that, a claim. Anyway, by now it is well-known within the yoga community that a number of Maheshwarananda's disciple confirm the sexual abuse. The fact that this is
2835:
I wonder what will happen next. I am surely biased, but to my mind, the arguments offered by the "include"-side are good ones, and haven't been answered yet by the "delete"-side. If the "delete"-side wishes to be consequent, there is a whole lot to delete on the evangelical scandal list (and other
2142:
I am happy that there is some discussion on this topic here. The former edit-delete-undo-delete circle was getting boring. I would just like to point out that not only are the articles independent of each other (compare countries and cited persons/alleged victims); also, while not exactly the BBC,
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for this, and it says "Generally, titles and honorifics should not be used either in the article body or when naming an article," though it does leave an exception for when a person is known by their name with the honorific included. In this case, though, I don't think it's needed. Side note: this
1764:
Dear Lakata, I am so glad you are finally ready to discuss the matter. I am not Pythagoras01, but since I have reverted the section blanking several times myself, too, I feel partly addressed, too, and would like to take a stab at an answer. Look, what do you mean by "it"? The article talks about
1703:
Lakata, is there a reason why you deleted the section on sexual harassment? The section gives references (much more accurate than many others in this entry), it is relevant, and it is a well-known fact that such allegations exist (a google search may convince you of that). Not mentioning it here,
1625:
Point accepted. I corrected and added references. By the way, profil is a serious Austrian news magazine, akin to the Spiegel, Newsweek, Time magazine; and Connection is one of the longest standing German magazines on things yoga, meditation, etc. and has a good record of doing sober research and
986:
your own reference confirming that Paramhans is a title and added it at the same time and now you claim it is his first given name. Are you this person's fan? I will leave a note on you talk on being disruptive. You called a vandalism reasonable edit. You should never do it or you will run into a
2627:
Encyclopedia's one and only purpose is to inform with relevant information on certain phenomena, event, person etc. Purpose of the information is action, not just useless piles of data for curious bookworms. Information on sexual scandal ( huge and relevant incident ) involving a person that has
2511:
I understand. Where I beg to differ is the evaluation of "hard evidence". There are around a dozen female disciples who have come forward with reports of being sexually abused by the Swami. Additionally, the entire board of at least two national organizations and some long-standing teachers have
2151:
And Lakata, if neither profil, nor Respekt, nor New Zealand TV, nor Connection, etc. are reliable sources, who or what is? Should we discard all the journalists, newspaper and TV editors, etc. involved, sit back and nod to your and Swami's version instead? Then why didn't he or YiDL sue them for
1587:
Ok, this section is deleted again and again and again, making good material for reports of vandalism. If you think this does not belong here, then please at least provide ONE single argument. All this may backfire, i.e. it really appears as if YIDL has to hide something. Otherwise, you'd able to
1424:
Existence or absence of third party source readable on internet, does not affect the reality of things. As mentioned in the discussion, I have made reasonable efforts to establish the truth. Even if ones name is made solely out of honorifics, the name should not be nulled because of that. In the
1572:
There was a section on the fact that various media reports have been published in different countries about a number of former students of MS reporting sexual misconduct by Swami. The entry also mentioned that some long-term disciples left Swamiji because of this reason (most after some serious
1260:
What is the truth can not simply be ignored. I am sure legal documents can be submitted, if necessary, but only according to the law. This can not be avoided. Not every bloke on the street can ask for your ID either. There must have been issues like that before. How where they handled? Must all
1975:
The Respekt piece is apparently "Translated by Roman Peterka for Beyond Orange, an organization founded by former members of the Yoga in Daily Life community" - so it seems to be merely repeating claims made by a small number of people who have already had disagreements with the subject of the
1032:
It may be that you have removed parts from the names of other Hindus Masters. But everybody answers for his own actions and I can not help you there. The bottom line here is that "genuine" legally valid parts of names are being stripped from persons names, because in western culture it is not
2308:
neutral and non-partisan. I'd never heard of this yoga guy outside of Knowledge (I can't even spell his name), and have no interest in his teachings or indeed in yoga. Just like I'd never heard of the famous TV chef outside of Knowledge (famous to people interested in cooking - not famous to
1250:
When the article was moved the first time, it was first suggested on the talk page, left for any comments for a few days until everybody agreed and then the move was made. The current procedure was change first, check later. That is not what one would consider civilized behavior. Not even on
2058:
I have looked over to the Sathya Sai Baba page , which has a long section on criticism, while Sathya Sai Baba has never been officially charged with anything either, as far as I can see. Seems in his case, the official charge sheet was rightly not made the be-all and end-all of determining
1870:
Since the majority of reports on this person from reputable media, as opposed to self-published or obscure, deal with the sexual abuse, I call it very disingenuous to the public to exclude this angle, especially since what is left is just advertisement, fluff and self-aggrandisement.
2147:
Of course we can all pretend it never happened and that all these articles and reports do refer to a completely different person who just happens to look like Swami and has the same name. Or we concede that this issue is part of his persona, and hence has to be part of this entry on
1626:
work. But that you may research yourself. By the way, the sources in this section stand now in sharp contrast to some of the other sources quoted in this article, most of which are in-house publications of YIDL or totally missing (such as the blood donation work for the Red Cross).
2025:
In any event, the original sources of articles may not be serious. No one has been charged with a crime or convicted. Consequently, adding defamatory content without solid evidence (a lady said that) to Knowledge is contrary to Knowledge's policy on biographies of living people.
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The initial title was longer because I was unaware about the title rules on Wiki. (no honorifics required) If you check the article, you can find a link to his cover organization and a phone number. If you can reach his secretary, you can get additional information like that.
2895:
everywhere but on wikipedia and YDL websites only confirms the less than straightforward dealings with the issue, so I pledge for keeping it here in the discussions. It's a worthy testimony, especially if the reasons given are as shallow as Huons. Let's keep it like that.
942:
Paramhans according to his passport is his first name, Swami is his middle name and Maheshwarananda is his last name. If we would follow the suggested logic, a person named Doctor Pope, would be deleted from Wiki, because all his names would be Honorific titles.
1425:
absence of internet source to confirm or dispute a statement it would seem reasonable that at least a second source of information (not necessarily on internet) is found which contradicts the first, before any action is taken to assume that the first is wrong.
2437:
So yes, I guess by now I am no longer neutral as far as the history of this passage is concerned. As far as the Swami or Yoga is concerned: I couldn't care less. But the history of one of my few attempts to do something worthwhile on Knowledge is, I admit,
1214:
to prove one way or the other. Basically, Atmapuri, the burden is on you to prove that Paramhans is actually his first name. We really shouldn't have to do this by getting in touch with him and going through a strange certification process. If he really is
1722:
made are unanswered and still stand, therefore the continuous blanking of the sexual abuse section is unwarranted and in my opinion constitutes vanadalism. If there are differing opinions, why not discuss them here instead of just vandalising the page?
2562:
abuse mentioned in the article are not noteworthy , not relevant , or not well documnted than what IS? Does wikipedia serve as a marketing tool for certain individuals or as a place to share relevant information of the public interest and benefit?
815:
What is disputed is the name of the person. Verification is currently not possible as there is no support on Wiki to submit legal documents (passport copy or proof of residence). The current name has been "verified" by checking with his secretary.
1925:
Profil is the longest established and one of the biggest Austrian news magazines with a long history of politically highly relevant media scoops. Comparable to the German "Spiegel", and if there is such a comparison, to the English "Economist".
1957:
I understand your point that sources must be evaluated independently, and that the dubious sources for the fluff don't justify sources for the criticism which are not up to par. But I hope that the links I have given show that they indeed are.
1219:
enough to have his own article, then the information should be out there. But as far as I can tell right now, Paramhans is just an honorific. And at some point, we need to stop going round and round in circles and come to some conclusion. —
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resigned after checking the validity of these allegations. Against this, the accused is one person and this one person (expectedly) denies the validity of the allegations. Now, weighing the evidence ... how hard does it need to get?
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Again, I have sympathy for such criticism, but this has to be sorted out according to policies. There is a reason why the BLP policy is biased against criticism: Knowledge does not want to be dragged in legal battles.
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1899:
The promotional wording can be dealt with separately. We don't put in dubiously sourced potentially defamatory claims about a living person in order to balance out promotional self-aggrandisement in their article!
1409:
I read the discussion and I still don't see any indication in the sources that Paramhans is part of his legal name. You mention that its his name as it appears in his passport, Do you have a source that confirm
1789:
No one has been charged with a crime or convicted. The edit regarding "Media Reports on Sexual Abuse" is contrary to Knowledge's policy on biographies of living people even with the principles fairness at all.
2115:
Wanted to remark regarding a gossip loop, as mentioned on the BLP notice board, that's t to my understanding not the case here, since each source has done original interviews with one or more abuse victims.
1287:, it does seem that he's almost always referred to with Paramhans in the name. So maybe it's just easier to leave the name the way it is. Having said that, though, this article still reads like a fansite. —
2235:
Look up the kid who wanted a cooking lesson from a famous TV chef, but ended up swimming with dolphins instead... and ask yourself why Knowledge is mute on that topic too. This may help you to believe it.
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Exactly, you've got the point. if administrators are not biased I can't see how can they let some 'facts' be in this article , and on the other hand to block quite relevant and documented information?
1091:
Sorry, maybe I need some clarification here. Why do you have access to his personal documentation? Are you somehow personally related or affiliated to this guy? If so, we have a lot more to discuss. —
1498:. These claims are not supported by third party reliable sources that can say it is his legal name, nor is there a need to include a honorific in the name, even if it is a legal name. The policy is -
2201:
aspect of the Swami? I mean, if he made headlines in the past few years, it was precisely because of the sexual abuse accusations - and his Knowledge entry should be mute on this? I can't believe it.
1052:
to prove this one way or the other? Either a source stating "Paramhans is his legal name and he no longer has a first name," or one saying "Paramhans is an honorific and his current full name is
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then, would seem to come close to censorship, no? I therefore reverted it; if there are non-partisan arguments for deleting the section, I am of course ready and willing to be discuss.
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be added without citing reliable sources - this is our default. You've cited two sources, one is a blog (not acceptable), and I can not access the other to check its reliability.
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as it was at the time of AFD? Swami Maheshwarananda is sufficient, obviously, even in India unless you are trying to be respectful (which is not the purpose of Knowledge). Even
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1856:), especially if it involves living persons. Still there are no real facts that support these published allegations. Otherwise it is only spreading of slander. Thank you.
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3) As has been said, Connection is one of the longest standing German magazines on things yoga, meditation, etc. and has a good record of doing sober research and work.
1447:
soruce. Your word that this is his official name is not sufficient. If you can't provide a reliable source for your claim that I don't think this can/will move forward.--
2798:. Consensus in these articles can be a waxing & waning tide, but for this subject it certainly looks like enough reliable sources have weighed in - this scandal
835:
Just because it is a commonly used title and is used in other places it is nevertheless is a honorific title. Thus it should not be part of the name of the article.
2817:
Thanks - the comparison with similar entries referring to evangelical Christian is a very good one. Here, too, it is not only legal matters which count, but legacy.
2086:
On a more serious note, the sourcing there is a lot stronger than what's offered here. I'm not saying it can't be improved. It may be that some of that article is
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Now that the AfD is done, I would like to rename this article "Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda", as the name most commonly appears online. Any objections?
2794:
There's a nuance between gossip and scandal that's dogged BLP editors since the beginning when it comes to sex scandals. As for religious leaders, there's
241:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
2112:
On the other hand, the subject of our article here is a very minor figure compared to the Sai Baba, so hour-long BBC documentaries are not to be expected.
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and may need to be reported to the appropriate board. In any case we should note that COI editing is strongly discouraged. Besides his other POV pushing
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provide good arguments rather than just deleting without a single word. Fact is that more and more such allegations (note the word!) are coming forward.
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I very much appreciate understanding Knowledge´s editors who temporarily blocked the controversial content because of the suspected sources. Thank you.
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affects Maheshwarananda's legacy, therefore it should go in. (One point - It is NOT slander or libel to quote & cite a reliable source in a BLP.)
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Discussion was already done. See this talk page. Consessus was already reached, but the recent move was made wihtout any discussion or suggestions.
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with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Knowledge's
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962:, the word "swami" is an honorific. So really, all I'm seeing here is two honorifics followed by a last name. Am I wrong in that judgment? —
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who read in a magazine about some bad things a yoga guy allegedly did, and suddenly you're on a crusade that these particular allegations
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Nice justyfiyng...one reference "seems to be made up" so you remove it and all the rest ! Really scientific and neutral approach !!
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is not written by an neutral person,' but from his devotees, and that is obvious from it's style of praise and lack of objectivity.
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They look obscure to me. Then again, I don't understand German. Would you care to justify your claim that they are "reputable media"?
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If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Knowledge's
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name in parts without actually deleting it and Adf was already done. The naming culture in India does not follow western concepts.
552:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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Zealand branch of YiDL does no longer deny these allegations; they only say that they are not in a position to investigate them (
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You're right, this does sound vaguely suspicious. If this is going to start dealing with sensitive data, then we might need some
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or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the
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The result of the move request was: not moved - discussion seems dead, and consensus if anything is against the proposal
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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and related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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to establish notability? I am getting a feeling of being ignored here. Atmapuri (talk) 21:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
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accounts turn up desperately wanting to put "scandal" into the biography of a living person, some of them might
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his legal name. It is customed in Hinudism that Gurus name their desciples giving them new spiritual names.
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http://www.3news.co.nz/Yoga-swami-faces-allegations-of-sexual-abuse/tabid/1771/articleID/300358/Default.aspx
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with just one honorific title and the name? I would put it up for an official move by an admin and am very
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Haha, wow. I guess that one covers it for me. Thus, Paramhans is an honorific and should be removed. —
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appears to be an honorific title. Given the article has some move history suggest it be discussed.--
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Why is the piece from Connection not on Connection's own website, but on "julia-koloda.de" instead?
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So are you saying that you don't have a direct affiliation with him? Either way, we need some good
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One note on 'neutrality' of the editors- I am sure that Swami Maheshwarananda's page on Knowledge
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There is no problem with removing honorifics unless they duplicate legaly also as the first name.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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884:-- there are so many Ramakrishnas... in India I guess. The names that are honorifics are removed.
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Wikidas, can you find proof showing that Paramhans isn't his first name? Also, according to
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Do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive until the dispute is resolved through
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are PDFs not hosted by the purported publisher. None of them supported the given content.
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http://www.3news.co.nz/Portals/0/images/Yoga%20in%20Daily%20Life%20Society%20Response.doc
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I ask everyone, please do not add defamatory content to Knowledge regarding the section (
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be neutral. I mean, come on, you're telling us that you're just a neutral uninvolved
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Pythagoras01, do you have real evidence for it? Since otherwise you spread slander.
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http://respekt.ihned.cz/respekt-in-english/c1-53834960-the-nightlife-of-a-great-yogi
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block. evidence that it was not his first name is both his given name and this edit
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The proposed new title seems OK. Thanks a lot for helping cleaning the article up :)
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This is part of your problem. Most of the people who are in disagreement with you,
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With pleasure. I am new to Knowledge, thanks for giving me a chance to explain.
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There were only unreliable claims that that his name is legally Paramahans or
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themselves in court and on the passport, should not be shortened in any form.
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the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Germany, and England. What more do you need?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Swami_Maheshwarananda#Media_Reports_on_Sexual_Abuse
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Swami_Maheshwarananda#Media_Reports_on_Sexual_Abuse
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Whereas I have the temerity to suggest a possibility that when multiple
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2) While the Respekt article was not referenced, it should have been.
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practiced to give people honorifics as part of their legal name.
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Vishwaguru Mahamandaleshwar Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda Puri
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Vishwaguru Mahamandaleshwar Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda Puri
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http://www.julia-koloda.de/mediapool/128/1289718/data/Yoga1.pdf
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Julia Koloda is the journalist who wrote the Connection piece.
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The honorofic is not misspelled. Check the google for a quick
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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Yeah, but that dude was the avatar of Shirdi Sai Baba, right?
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an entire category for just those by Evangelical Christians
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The sources provided look inadequate to avoid problems of
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there is a recent TV report on the issue in New Zealand:
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http://www.profil.at/articles/1124/560/299653/yoga-gibst
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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At the time of AFD when article (the same ad) was named
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I doesn't have to be an internet source, it can be any
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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I'm going to look a bit further into the others. --
481:This article has not yet received a rating on the
2585:The place for voicing such concerns would be the
2008:so hopefully we will get some more input soon. --
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3001:Start-Class Rajasthan articles of Mid-importance
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1048:Okay, let's try this another way. Can we find
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1953:http://www.connection.de/index.php/magazine
923:article really does read like a fansite. —
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918:: Agreed; ditch the Paramhans. There is a
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1283:*sigh* Okay. Based on what I can find in
777:Go for it. Thanks for following through.
2473:when we personally dislike the outcome.
2377:allergic to the very idea of censorship.
1814:it, so please don't edit war over it. --
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2756:No, that's not the main reason. See
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733:This article is supported by
464:Template:WikiProject Hinduism
455:and see a list of open tasks.
353:and see a list of open tasks.
234:biographies of living persons
42:Put new text under old text.
2941:Low-importance Yoga articles
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558:contribute to the discussion
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50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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2336:man on the Clapham omnibus
1829:Dear anyone, the section (
1121:Atma/ the same user said:
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2004:I've mentioned this at
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978:Atma you are being
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739:(assessed as
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365:Yoga articles
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123:Find sources:
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110:Verifiability
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52:Learn to edit
49:
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32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
2903:62.178.23.79
2897:— Preceding
2875:— Preceding
2838:Pythagoras01
2819:Pythagoras01
2799:
2791:
2790:
2762:Demiurge1000
2669:Pythagoras01
2560:
2518:Pythagoras01
2440:Pythagoras01
2438:frustrating.
2404:— Preceding
2401:
2399:
2379:Pythagoras01
2344:Demiurge1000
2339:
2331:
2305:
2280:Pythagoras01
2260:
2238:Demiurge1000
2203:Pythagoras01
2172:— Preceding
2168:
2092:Demiurge1000
2039:
2024:
2010:Demiurge1000
1988:Demiurge1000
1960:
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1947:
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1936:
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1902:Demiurge1000
1869:
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1816:Demiurge1000
1811:
1807:
1763:
1740:— Preceding
1736:
1725:193.110.28.9
1720:Pythagoras01
1717:
1706:Pythagoras01
1702:
1691:Pythagoras01
1680:
1654:or removed.
1639:
1628:62.178.23.79
1624:
1607:
1606:accusations
1590:62.178.23.79
1586:
1575:62.178.23.79
1571:
1563:
1554:
1547:
1375:
1345:
1330:
1322:
1315:
1289:
1285:news sources
1222:
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964:
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761:
734:
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682:project page
680:
670:
664:India portal
547:
442:
380:
332:
292:WikiProjects
257:
245:
238:
232:
218:no consensus
217:
184:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
2118:Lovelybeing
2061:Lovelybeing
1962:Lovelybeing
1873:Lovelybeing
1718:The points
1496:Paramahamsa
1379:Paramahamsa
882:Ramakrishna
282:Start-class
148:free images
31:not a forum
2925:Categories
2712:Tgeorgescu
2595:Tgeorgescu
2475:Tgeorgescu
2148:Knowledge.
1445:verifiable
1361:passport.
1166:admin help
980:disruptive
606:parameter.
343:Hatha yoga
1683:consensus
1209:secondary
1136:concerned
854:Paramhans
632:Rajasthan
567:Biography
506:Biography
250:libellous
186:Lalit82in
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2899:unsigned
2877:unsigned
2406:unsigned
2174:unsigned
2088:WP:UNDUE
1976:article.
1782:WP:UNDUE
1754:contribs
1742:unsigned
1652:reverted
1531:Atmapuri
1504:Atmapuri
1472:Atmapuri
1441:reliable
1427:Atmapuri
1397:Atmapuri
1363:Atmapuri
1333:Kotniski
1263:Atmapuri
1194:Atmapuri
1079:Atmapuri
1035:Atmapuri
945:Atmapuri
900:Atmapuri
859:Atmapuri
818:Atmapuri
798:Atmapuri
764:Looie496
458:Hinduism
449:Hinduism
408:Hinduism
210:deletion
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2792:Include
2587:WP:BLPN
2006:WP:BLPN
1812:exclude
1808:include
1608:may not
1410:that?--
1294:Annyong
1227:Annyong
1217:notable
1175:Annyong
1125:Comment
1098:Annyong
1063:Annyong
1010:Annyong
969:Annyong
930:Annyong
758:Rename?
715:on the
383:on the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2800:itself
2328:WP:SPA
2042:Lakata
2028:Lakata
1858:Lakata
1835:Lakata
1792:Lakata
1746:Lakata
1604:WP:BLP
1508:WP:COI
1376:Oppose
604:|auto=
288:scale.
126:Google
1515:Wikid
1309:Move?
1291:Hello
1251:Wiki.
1224:Hello
1172:Hello
1154:Wikid
1141:Wikid
1095:Hello
1060:Hello
1056:." —
1007:Hello
992:Wikid
966:Hello
960:swami
927:Hello
887:Wikid
850:proof
838:Wikid
688:India
677:India
627:India
598:by a
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2907:talk
2885:talk
2865:talk
2861:Huon
2842:talk
2823:talk
2808:talk
2766:talk
2716:talk
2673:talk
2634:talk
2599:talk
2568:talk
2522:talk
2479:talk
2444:talk
2414:talk
2383:talk
2348:talk
2340:must
2309:me).
2284:talk
2242:talk
2207:talk
2182:talk
2154:talk
2122:talk
2096:talk
2090:. --
2065:talk
2046:talk
2032:talk
2014:talk
1992:talk
1966:talk
1906:talk
1885:talk
1877:talk
1862:talk
1839:talk
1820:talk
1796:talk
1771:talk
1750:talk
1729:talk
1710:talk
1695:talk
1632:talk
1616:talk
1594:talk
1579:talk
1535:talk
1476:talk
1461:talk
1453:talk
1443:and
1431:talk
1416:talk
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