2108:"the passion for specificity, the hypnotic materiality of the world one is in, is all but at the heart of the task to which every American novelist has been enjoined since Herman Melville and his whale and Mark Twain and his river: to discover the most arresting, evocative verbal depiction of every last American thing. Without strong representation of the thing—animate or inanimate—without the crucial representation of what is real, there is nothing. Its concreteness, its unabashed focus on all the particulars, a fervor for the singular and a profound aversion to generalities is fiction's lifeblood. It is from a scrupulous fidelity to the blizzard of specific data that is a personal life, it is from the force of its uncompromising particularity, from its physicalness, that the realistic novel, the insatiable realistic novel with its multitude of realities, derives its ruthless intimacy. And its mission: to portray humanity in its particularity."
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section. Obviously, any major novelist is going to have critics on both sides of the fence, but Roth is a case where praise has been nearly universal. IMO the article would be better if the Crit and A&H sections were merged into something like "Critical
Reception", and the prose was NPOV tempered a bit better to show that Roth, while heavily praised (by X, Y, etc. for reasons X, Y) has also had his detractors (X, Y, for reasons A, B)
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812:"Jewish-American" is no more awkward than "African-American," "Irish-American," "German-American," or "Native-American," and they are ALL commonly used phrases -- it seems that Jews love to celebrate their unique cultural heritage and ethnic separateness among themselves yet don't like to actually talk about it in public. Bring it out into the open; I'm doing my part and putting it back in. --
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1766:. You do not need to reference information that is not included in the article. (OTRS agreements are sometimes mentioned on the article talk page, and/or in a non-displaying comment added to the article itself.) I don't know what happened, but the admin might have negotiated a different solution, such as taking this info out of the article's lead, and covering it as a
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the New York Times survey described in the article, Roth was, by a wide margin, the author with the most novels mentioned, and the author with the most mentions over all. By any standard, this supports the statement that Roth is "arguably the most decorated
American writer of his era." Indeed, it would be accurate to drop the word "arguably" from that sentence.
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come from countries all over the world, it is NOT the same as calling someone "African-American." Which, by the way, some
Americans of African descent have begun to object to. Nor is it convincing for User:205.188.117.10 to refer to examples of "Jewish-American" usage in academics or other writers' novels. These are irrelevant to the preferences of Philip Roth.
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or ephemeral press article, and that same error elevated to perennial wisdom in the article that is the top Google hit for someone, their work, or their company. Knowledge (XXG) does a very poor job indeed living up to that responsibility. Anonymous editors post malicious, incompetent or biased material every day. Knowledge (XXG) announced the
1002:"confirmed in Roth's memoir The Facts" - I'm not 100% sure that this is a memoir; it may instead be a pseudo roman a clef. Same goes for Patrimony: A True Story. The claim to factuality in the title/subtitle may be deception. Does anyone know? Perhaps the two books would therefore be most comfortable under the "Roth novels" heading.
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Excellent work, Esowteric. It's my understanding that someone from the
Washington Post is currently writing an in-depth piece about this talk page with contributions from Roth himself. I think that's a really good answer and I would ask you not to delete it or allow any other user to delete it. This
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In an interview on the
October 3, 2010 episode of CBS Sunday Morning, Roth said, "I don't have a religious bone in my body," and in response to the question "Do you feel there's a god out there?" he answered "I'm afraid there isn't, no." He also said, "when the whole world doesn't believe in god,
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where's the criticism section? i know the above comment claims that roth is "universally" praised, but that is certainly not true and i'm guessing it was written by a fan of roth's. there has been much criticism of his work as juvenile, solipsistic, pedantic, and shock for shock value. i am a fan of
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I think that you're somewhat right about that statement. It is true that it is arguable as he's about neck and neck with Updike when it comes to decorations. I think it can be stated however that he is ONE of the most decorated
American writers of his era. There's no doubt he is highly decorated and
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It's difficult to believe that the two books mentioned "would be most comfortable under the 'Roth's novels' heading," since Roth has repeatedly identified them as factual memoirs in the most unambiguous terms. There is nothing confusing, mysterious or hard to understand about the title "Patrimony: A
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Less subjectively, Roth's novels do not display any of the characteristics of hysterical realism, such as use of a plethora of subplots and minor characters, ostentatious display of encyclopedic knowledge on the part of the author, "multi-cultural" characters composed out of nothing but a collection
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That sounds sort of sensible, but isn't really. You have to remember that
Knowledge (XXG) is the top Google link for practically anyone and anything you write about. As such, Knowledge (XXG) has a responsibility to get things right. There is a profound difference between an error in an obscure book
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Even if the alleged biographer's identity was confirmed (which he never bothered to do so), information exchanged through personal communications is not available to the public, making it impossible to verify for the readers. The information that previously existed wasn't even from
Knowledge (XXG),
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Philip Roth has repeatedly stated, "I don't have a religious bone in my body." In his memoir PATRIMONY he says many times that he is totally, completely secular. Because of that, we have to suspect that he would not enjoy or prefer being referred to as "Jewish-American." Far from it. And since Jews
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I agree, but I only see a reference to "Jewish-American" in the second section, which I've changed slightly. I believe that it needs to be noted that Roth is Jewish as so many of his books revolve around Jewish themes, but I agree that "Jewish-American" is an awkward phrase. See the change I made.
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Must
Knowledge (XXG) refer to American Jews as "Jewish-American"? Most Jews I know reject this phrase, not wanting to compromise or express any sort of ambivalence about their Americanness, and not wanting to contribute to the ethnic balkanization that some on the far left and right would foist on
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To me, the sentance is both objective and supported. No other author has received a
Pulitzer Prize AND two National Book Awards AND a WH Smith Literary Award AND received designation from the Library of America. In addition, Roth is the only author to win three PEN/Faulkner Awards. Moreover, in
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I'm taking it back out. How often do you hear of a Jewish-French or a Jewish-German author?I'll do my part, whenever I see it I'm taking it out. I think it is appropriate to mention his ethnicity (not "religion," because he is obviously secular) - in the first paragraph of the biography. Philip
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I also agree. The term African-American is appropriate because originally their roots come from Africa. Irish-Americans came from Ireland. Native-American are native to America. Jewish-American gives me the indication that there would be a country that "Jewish-Americans" came from. Since Jews have
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It should be noted that Philip Roth's case is perhaps an exception to a general rule: that generally speaking, secondary independent sources are more reliable than primary or self-published sources. Editing one's own biography or articles about one's own books can lead to possible conflicts of
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Becuase I thought it might be relevant to include information about a personal spat he had with Knowledge (XXG) on his biography on Knowledge (XXG)? But I've noticed since I first suggested this it's already on the Human Stain article and there is something about not duplicating information on
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Not sure how far back the two line "criticism" section goes, but it seems rather silly to me atm. General languange ("Some have criticized Roth heavily") currently reads as though this is somehow a common view, but then cites one critic; the article then segues awkwardly into awards and honors
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I removed "one of the most acclaimed writers in modern literary history" from the lede. The "arguably most decorated" epithet should suffice, as it is more easily proven and less POV. "Most acclaimed" is vacuous, as is some reference to "modern literary history," whatever that could mean.
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Is not implemented? In the WP where I correct a lot, there is a difference between "current" and "revised" pages (showing me, when logged on, that an article has to be revised). Check once visiting the WP wihtout logging on, and try out the article and news of the day (the most often
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I'm removing the association between Roth and Hysterical Realism because his writing is definitely not an example of that genre of literary fiction. As someone who's read most of James Wood's essays over the last several years (including the one in which he coined the term
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When I searched for this page on Google the first sentence that was given as an example of what is written on the page was this: "Philip Milton Roth (born March 19, 1933) is a well-known asshole and novelist." Is there something Knowledge (XXG) can do about this or
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as that of the dominant Western author of our century". The links to Dante, Proust and Joyce are in the quote. The Kafka page is a Certified Featured Article, and you'll find links within quotes elsewhere in it, and on other Featured Articles. On the page for
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I find it puzzling why they're making such a big deal about this. First they complain about anonymous edits by users to biographies. Now they're complaining because we don't just take the word of any anonymous editor who claims to be acting under someone
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May 18th, 2006: added it back in -- "Jewish-American" is certainly not awkward as it is used in academia and elsewhere all of the time; here are a few books (largely written and/or compiled by American Jews in and outside of academia) that prove this:
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his work, but this article makes it seem like he is not a polarizing figure, which anyone in the literary world knows to be untrue. please expand the criticism section if this article is to be able to be used as a resource for students of his work.
1906:. Obviously Roth was both an atheist and a writer -- but I'm not convinced that he warrants inclusion in this category. However, I haven't read everything he wrote, so I'd appreciate some informed opinions on the subject. Thanks in advance.
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years ago that would have ensured that each edit made by a new anonymous editor would be scrutinised by a more established editor before being shown to the public; yet even that minimal quality control feature was never implemented.
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It is somewhat of a puzzle that this claim is made without any demonstration of whence the "anti-" component arises. It would make as much sense to claim that the sentence, "It seems that the moon shines at night." is "anti-lunar".
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That seems like a subjective, unsupportable statement to me. Is he more "decorated" than John Updike? I don't think so. A more neutral "Roth has won numerous prestigious awards" would be more appropriate, in my opinion.
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interest. Above all else, common sense should ultimately prevail, and that's something that is enshrined in Knowledge (XXG)'s own policy, even if we sometimes get there in a rather convoluted or testing way. Regards,
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I have never seen Margaret Martinson mentioned as a model for The Monkey, and I'd be very surprised if she was. We do know that she was the model for Maureen Tarnopol, the wife of protagonist Peter Tarnopol in
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1867:. If this is unfair I don't know, but for the association alone it should be in there. I do think that of major twentieth-century American writers he is the most into things like this. And in contrast with
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Roth is, first and foremost, an American author. The idea that all of his novels center around Zionism, infra, is similarly banal, but I won't remove the content. What about The Plot against America? (
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In the Roth article, there is a quote from the same critic: "The complex influences of Kafka and Freud and the malaise of American Jewish life produced in Philip a new kind of synthesis..."
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Glad to be of help. If you click on "View history" you can still see the details (and you can also request that offensive edits are hidden from the public). BTW, the article on the author
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My novel "The Human Stain" was described in the entry as "allegedly inspired by the life of the writer Anatole Broyard." ...This alleged allegation is in no way substantiated by fact.
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Linking to Herman Melville and Mark Twain here would indeed aid readers. If Roth, like Kafka and Shakespeare, is to have a Featured Article, such links are worth including.
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It would be worth linking to Kafka and Freud in the Bloom quote, and other quotes. Including links within quotes is common on Knowledge (XXG), including Featured Articles.
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Specifically, Martinson is the inspiration for female characters in several of Roth's novels, including Mary Jane Reed (aka "the Monkey") in Portnoy's Complaint.
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of quirks and unlikely coincidences, etc. Roth is a pretty conventional practitioner of naturalism/literary realism who has added strong elements of
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A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
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Renowned author Philip Roth has criticised Knowledge (XXG) after he was unable to convince the site to change an entry about one of his novels.
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I've just reverted that malicious edit and warned the user. Google must have spidered the change and will no doubt update the result shortly.
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point in the Reception section. As it was, the erroneous information about Broyard and Roth's rebuttal of it took up nearly half the entire
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I restructured the first paragraph. It was too much of an understatement, reading like "George Washington was an American politician."
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an anonymous editor. Hence why we didn't just take his claims at face-value and explicitly asked for a verifiable source. --
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with his fundamental perceptions.'" Well, maybe, but more to my point, including links within quotes appears to be kosher.
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I'm very skeptical about this assertion, currently at the end of the second paragraph of Roth's 'Life and Career':
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he wrote to UTRS; the man is a Pulitzer finalist and Roth's official biographer. He is not an anonymous nobody.
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Does Philip Roth belong in this category? At the time his ancestors left Europe, they would have been living in
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I assume that if I put this in someone would take it right out as unsourced, but maybe someone has a source.
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http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/09/wikipedia-told-philip-roth-hes-not-credible-source-on-book-he-wrote/
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been scattered throughout the world for so long I find it rather foolish to call them Jewish-Americans.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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it can be substantiated that there are not many other writers than have been lauded as highly as Roth.
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but as Roth said from "literary gossip", i.e. literary critics and reviewers. He should've corrected
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it'll be a great place." I'm sorry I don't know how to cite this or if it's worth using. Thanks.
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has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
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I also removed an erroneous and unsourced sentence at the end of this section. According to
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Handbook of American-Jewish Literature: An Analytical Guide to Topics, Themes, and Sources
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I am noting several of my edits which, hopefully, helped improve this article for readers
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The ironic thing about your comment is that the user who claimed to be Roth's biographer
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So, I say it should remain and will continue to switch it back, especially given that
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amounted to removing all of the links in the article with no substantive additions. --
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of Roth's books involve Jews and his peculiar brand of "American Jewishness." --
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That was my understanding. I think links would be particularly valuable here:
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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In the first section following the intro, I created spacing for readability.
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Knowledge (XXG), right? So I assume we don't need to add this now, correct?
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Knowledge (XXG) told Philip Roth he's not "credible source" on book he wrote
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Of course, I'd be very intrigued to see a source which states otherwise.
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As noted literary critic, John McEnroe, said, "You can not be serious!"
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Philip Roth is arguably the most decorated American writer of his era
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Just trust us, he wrote to Knowledge (XXG) and said so!</ref: -->
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prominently Broyard is mentioned in verifiable independent sources
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I removed the section tag - this section has enough references.
905:. New York and London: W. W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2001.
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Unknown-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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Links within quotes are discussed, appropriately enough, at
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also makes interesting reading, perhaps as a counterpoint.
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667:"Author Roth rebukes Knowledge (XXG) over Human Stain edit"
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Here is the text of the open letter to wikipedia he wrote
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Author Roth rebukes Knowledge (XXG) over Human Stain edit
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contributor may be personally or professionally connected
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the story clearly shows why Wiki now losing its editors
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Just to explain my revert. The last edits by anonymous
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject University of Pennsylvania
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19527797
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The Cambridge Companion to Jewish American Literature
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798:, rev. 2000). -- Mark Satin, Washington DC USA
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825:-- lovely anti-semitic sentiments there. --
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19:This is the
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1975:Steve Quinn
1908:Anomalous+0
1877:John Updike
1816:Floquenbeam
1642:changed).--
1368:*face-palm*
1157:—Preceding
1130:—Preceding
1094:—Preceding
1083:Cptnspoon19
1010:94.31.32.30
877:Cptnspoon19
827:70.109.46.5
148:free images
31:not a forum
25:Philip Roth
2132:Categories
1695:understand
1459:Tomvasseur
1116:Grunge6910
1039:Wrong Link
943:nearly all
682:New Yorker
496:New Jersey
491:discussion
483:New Jersey
442:New Jersey
2049:and than
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1545:Esowteric
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1202:D. Monack
987:The Facts
845:Really?
299:Biography
239:Biography
208:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2055:encloses
1881:deisenbe
1497:unsigned
1351:Sbmeirow
1325:unsigned
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762:Polynova
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56:get help
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27:article.
1764:omitted
1738:BSIDIAN
1669:BSIDIAN
1588:BSIDIAN
1565:famous.
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417:on the
210:C-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2034:Proust
1875:, and
1644:Mideal
1457:not?--
752:Revert
720:, and
216:scale.
126:Google
2053:. He
2047:Plato
2038:Joyce
2030:Dante
1927:about
1768:minor
1729:. --
1388:Why?
197:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2117:talk
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2073:talk
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2011:talk
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1979:talk
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864:talk
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732:talk
288:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2059:see
1993:Hi
1788:466
1753:OUL
1711:466
1684:OUL
1632:466
1603:OUL
1360:•
724:.
618:Low
515:???
409:Low
176:TWL
2134::
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2088:—
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1887:)
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242::
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2115:(
2098:)
2094:(
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2009:(
1977:(
1951::
1933:(
1910:(
1883:(
1825:+
1783:N
1778:J
1749:S
1743:â€
1734:O
1706:N
1701:J
1680:S
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1665:O
1646:(
1627:N
1622:J
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1584:O
1548:+
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222::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
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139:·
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128:(
58:.
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