1210:). They slow down page load time, which is significant for people with slow connections. People in Bolivia or Paraguay who want to learn about this component of their fauna, who presumably don't have connections as fast as they are in the West, may indeed notice the difference. Then, as Aranae rightly notes, the use of cite templates complicates adding citations for people who don't know how to use the templates. You speak about the "minutiae of citation formatting", but using cite templates forces one to learn the minutiae of parameter names in those templates, and that is something much more important. If someone adds a citation here and adds a space after the colon in a journal citation, which is inconsistent with the style I used here, the citation is still functional and the only problem is a minor inconsistency in the citations, a small problem that is easily fixed. If on the contrary I don't remember the correct parameter name in a cite template, it breaks the citation. Thus, both formats require one to remember such minutiae, but the consequences of not remembering them are more severe for the cite templates. In general, I prefer not to use templates where they are not urgently required, because they make it more difficult for new users willing to improve Knowledge to do so. In addition (a minor point), the cite template style has several features that are inconsistent with the styles used in the scientific journals in the field.
1217:. Some of the footnotes refer to Percequillo et al., 2008, which is the IUCN account, but you have now disguised this reference as an external link, making it impossible to verify the conservation status from the information given in the article. The language text ("in Portuguese" etc.) is placed at different places in the citation in the several citations where it is used. This is apparently a problem with the templates themselves and not with your implementation, and it illustrates another problem: using complex templates instead of simple text makes it more difficult to achieve consistency on points like the place of the language label. Your edit created a problem in the Musser and Carleton, 2005 reference, where there are two periods behind the initials of DeeAnn Reeder. This illustrates the fact that even when using the citation templates, one has to remember minutiae, such as not putting a period at the end of the |editor= parameter. For some reason, you used the DOI for the Pardinas, 2008 reference, creating inconsistency with other citations where DOIs also exist. I gave my reasons for not using DOIs at
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1240:. I believe your changes objectively made the article worse; you probably disagree, but we should be able to agree that both the previous style and the one you proposed are permissible, so the style preferred by the primary contributor (me) is to be used. I am open to objective arguments why I am wrong on the above.
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I tried to make it clear by reviewing the histories of the two names it got in separate paragraphs and then reviewing their shared history in the third paragraph and beyond. I am happy to have this section improved; I want to have an article that is as good as possible and not merely one that is good
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I can see two possible advantages for using the cite templates. One is that citation formats are consistent across many articles. But whether this is even desirable is dubious. Both the citation template format and the format I commonly use give the same information, just with different punctuation
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In a format with an incredibly steep learning curve. Forcing editors to write this type of complex code to do the simplest (and most important) tasks really represents one of the biggest barriers to entry for experts who want to improve wikipedia. This type of formatting is not straightforward in
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I think I addressed most of your concerns. The range map still needs to be added, though, and there are some places in the text where I may not quite have been able to solve the problems you saw. Also, the "Distribution and ecology" section has now become something of a catch-all; I'll need to find
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The problem was that
Oryzomyini was basically a collection of genera that some people thought looked pretty similar, without any phylogenetic justification. Voss didn't want to perpetuate that problem. I think it's too much for this article to explain that in detail. I'll try to think of a suitable
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is not a "common name" in the technical sense of a name in the vernacular, but it is a "common name" in the sense of a name that is commonly used for the animal, and it is this second meaning of "common name" that is relevant to the policy. I don't have any interest at this point in a proposal to
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Sorry if that is the case. I think my main point is in the paragraph "Summarizing, I find the disadvantages of using the cite templates much more persuasive than the advantages. The templates add needless complexity and require one to learn at least as many minutiae as just typing the references
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Cybercobra, I wrote this article and added all its citation templates, and I find it much more convenient to just type out the citation than to use these templates and remember the names of all these parameters. Sure, there's probably some script that makes it easier, but all that is only adding
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It's a ridge on the molar, and some authors have considered its presence in oryzomyines and thomasomyines versus its absence in akodontines, phyllotines, and others to be very important. It is somewhat explained in the next sentences, but I agree that this may be made more clear. (Now done -
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I will begin reviewing this article. Please revert any changes I make where I inadvertently change the meaning. I often do small edits with edit summaries as explanations, so check them if you have trouble following why I might have done what I've done. I will post queries below.
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Is there really a good reason for these citation templates? They make the references section a difficult-to-edit disaster of code. I've never understood why the trend in wikipedia is to intentionally make citing sources the most complex part of the process.
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section would be helpful, including alisphenoid strut, tegmen tympani, zygomatic plates, posterolateral palatal pits, anteroloph, posteroflexid. This might be a little tricky but a few words would be helpful. Inline references in paras 2 and 3 would be
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You also split some of the references to multiple papers. Not only did this create some other problems (ref. 29 and 31 are currently identical), but it also makes the article less visually appealing by creating strings of consecutive ref
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Summarizing, I find the disadvantages of using the cite templates much more persuasive than the advantages. The templates add needless complexity and require one to learn at least as many minutiae as just typing the references
1221:. Your current formatting creates needless text, because no one is interested (I hope) in seeing the DOI code. Just linking the title is more intuitive and economical, and this was the previous format. You placed the number of
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are tricky to navigate as there are quite alot of tricky taxonomic changes to include. Not a deal-breaker for GA but section might need tweaking for FAC. I have added a couple of commas here and there to see if it
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and formatting. The second advantage consists of the COinS metadata. But these are rarely used at best, and it should be possible to generate these data automatically anyway even from non-templated citations.
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The article needs something on aspects of behaviour, including diet and hunting habits (if nothing is known, this needs recording), and breeding/nesting. Do we have any info on predators which eat it?
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Although this species is of "least concern", the only whole-organism photos are of other species. Surely there's a picture of this critter out there somewhere. --
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I can see your point, but note that the lead also includes the most important points about distribution, habitat, and morphology. What about adding the following:
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actually the literally most common name. There seems to be a problem between the most common meaning of "common name" and "common name" as a technical term.
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The fraction of small South
American rodents for which we have photos is not that high, unfortunately. A fair amount of expertise is needed to identify them.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110531182826/http://www.avesargentinas.org.ar/cs/DESCARGABLES/Conservacion/ReservaElBagual/10-%20El%20Bagual%20-%20Mamiferos.pdf
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On the contrary, the templates mean one doesn't need to remember the minutae of citation formatting, only fill in some fields. They also do neat stuff like
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As far as I know, nothing is known. It has been found in owl pellets from time to time, so that actually merits inclusion. I'll see what I can do.
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The lead should be a summary of salient points of the article. As it stands it seems to focus overly much on taxonomy (granted it is complicated!)
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seems to be talking about the literally most common name. Perhaps a new guideline elsewhere to warn people of this important distinction.
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In this article, your use of the citation templates created several problems, which result in the article currently not fulfilling some
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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I'm currently busy with other 'pedia tasks and the wall of text is rather off-putting, so I'm not going to make an issue of this. --
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Overall, a bit of work to do. Good luck. I can't help with content but am free to answer questions and help out where I can.
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be amended? You don't really seem to be selectively violating it if your practice is to use taxon titling when the taxon
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That is true. I have little experience with making such maps well; do you have any suggestions as to how best to do that?
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but declined to formally place it in
Oryzomyini in the absence of explicit phylogenetic justification of such a placement.
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and some other papers within brackets, even though that is the most important piece of information for finding the paper.
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complexity and solving a non-existing problem, because I have no problem at all with just typing out the citations.
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Okay, I think we've reached GA level. I will update and post some further notes on the general talk page itself.
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As you say, it is tricky. I will try to give some explanations for them and also add the refs.
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14:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC) (Now done, except for posteroflexid which was already explained -
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Certain bats are also smaller and paler in the Chaco region, which includes much of
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is a far more common name for this animal than "Brazilian False Rice Rat". See generally
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There are also disadvantages for the use of citation templates (cf. recent discussion at
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enough for GA, and any suggestions you have for achieving that end would be welcome.
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Is there any more specific meaning by using the word "pelage" over "coat" or "fur"?
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Some additional general morphology, perhaps body weight and relative tail length.
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My apologies for interposing here, but having just seen this I thought that
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Some more clarification of technical terms. Another reader would be good.
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Understood; you've done enough already, thanks. You may want to watch
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has also been recorded from
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As an analogy: these species show the same kind of variation as
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Did you know ... that it was not realized for 70 years that the
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Last, I would like to draw your attention to the principles in
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Some more thorough referencing (eg the chromosome sentence)
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Knowledge Did you know articles that are featured articles
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Great, thanks! I added the karyotype ref and some others.
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Why was it moved from "Brazilian False Rice Rat" despite
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Citation Style
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948:- bats? I'm lost as to why bats are mentioned here.
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1099:Some notes -
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957:Pseudoryzomys
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852:Sigmodontinae
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586:Anomalomyidae
583:
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537:Cypriot mouse
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495:Tree squirrel
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147:Did you know?
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27:Pseudoryzomys
25:
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17:
1582:
1560:
1557:
1532:source check
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1320:WP:COMMONAME
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630:Eligmodontia
626:Bobak marmot
554:
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508:Rodent stubs
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463:Hamster ball
443:
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367:
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289:
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209:WikiProjects
177:
163:
161:
152:
144:
114:
95:
45:please do so
34:
26:
1215:FA criteria
916:Description
713:transcluded
545:House mouse
483:Rat-catcher
479:Prairie dog
422:(requested)
387:Fancy mouse
1617:Categories
1569:Report bug
1437:, though.
1021:P. simplex
761:Holochilus
634:Guinea pig
614:Beaver dam
602:Armintomys
533:Chinchilla
451:Birbalomys
375:Beaver dam
151:column on
36:identified
1600:WolfmanSF
1552:this tool
1545:this tool
1017:range map
890:- a what?
705:GA Review
570:Ailuravus
438:Mousetrap
141:Main Page
1558:Cheers.—
1439:Chrisrus
1414:Chrisrus
1372:Chrisrus
1324:Chrisrus
1111:contribs
1101:Casliber
1086:contribs
1076:Casliber
1054:contribs
1044:Casliber
819:Taxonomy
765:Lundomys
737:contribs
727:Casliber
646:Tokudaia
590:Apodemus
566:Aethomys
471:Pacarana
199:FA-class
121:Promoted
1472:my edit
1267:does."
1219:the FAC
1208:WT:CITE
622:Blesmol
606:Batomys
562:Acouchi
420:Lemming
369:Cleanup
319:history
292:on the
265:Rodents
256:rodents
228:Rodents
143:in the
80:Process
1579:Photo?
1391:Ucucha
1346:Ucucha
1269:Ucucha
1259:(talk)
1242:Ucucha
1186:Aranae
1176:(talk)
1149:Aranae
1133:Ucucha
1066:Ucucha
1025:Ucucha
1008:Ucucha
987:Ucucha
983:Ucucha
961:Ucucha
933:Ucucha
929:Ucucha
901:Ucucha
874:Ucucha
832:Ucucha
822:helps.
806:Ucucha
783:Ucucha
779:Ucucha
653:Wikify
610:Beaver
556:Verify
549:Rabies
525:Beaver
515:Update
402:Expand
362:Drafts
205:scale.
102:Listed
83:Result
1255:cobra
1252:Cyber
1233:tags.
1229:does.
1172:cobra
1169:Cyber
919:good.
715:from
673:Other
502:Stubs
428:Merge
329:purge
324:watch
29:is a
1604:talk
1589:talk
1443:talk
1435:this
1418:talk
1395:talk
1376:talk
1350:talk
1328:talk
1190:talk
1166:. --
1153:talk
1105:talk
1080:talk
1048:talk
804:No.
763:and
731:talk
445:NPOV
314:edit
77:Date
1526:RfC
1496:to
1486:to
284:Low
1619::
1606:)
1591:)
1539:.
1534:}}
1530:{{
1445:)
1420:)
1397:)
1378:)
1364:is
1352:)
1344:.
1330:)
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1306:)
1297:*
1293:=
1288:—
1192:)
1155:)
1147:--
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739:)
665:•
661:•
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1295:I
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47:.
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