2437:
across the world. Children still learn the names of his constellations, cars steer by his directions, sports fans fight over his ethnic labels. His scribblings both guided and deterred adventurers, intellectual and practical, peaceful and belligerent, across several civilizations, across centuries, to all corners of the Earth. Magellan freezing in the
Antarctic winds, was cursing Ptolemy's name. So great was Ptolemy's influence, for so long, that to undo that grip is celebrated as revolutionary, turning points for mankind. And not merely Copernicus. It is perhaps fitting that another man - Amerigo Vespucci - whose renown rested solely on writing a book claiming Ptolemy was wrong, was rewarded for it by having two continents named after him. The history of the world would look very different without Ptolemy's extraordinary influence, for better or for worse. And the other guy? He is a virtual unknown by comparison.
4022:
Copernicus to
Galileo. So while the history of astronomy may be a small topic, it is one of general knowledge, as opposed to say, the rule of Ptolemy I Soter following the death of Alexanderâa topic which was immensely more important in Ptolemaic Egypt, but which is not studied at all by most schoolchildren; at best the dynasty as a whole might be mentioned in passing, by way of describing what became of Alexander's empire, or where Cleopatra came from. After all, there are only a few luminaries in astronomy prior to Galileo, and Ptolemy is one of the giants; but several kingdoms grew out of Alexander's empire, none of which survived antiquity, and none of their rulers over the course of generations was remotely as significant as Alexander.
5151:: I know we're not technically counting votes, but I don't know how else to determine whether there's a consensus. It's not necessary to "secure" this article as a primary topicâthe question is whether to move it to another title or leave it where it is. And by my count as of a couple of minutes ago, 19 people think the article is fine where it is, and 15 favour moving it to one of three alternatives . And while most of them can agree on Ptolemy (scholar), some are opposed to that option. So while there's not a problem with relisting this, the relisting is to determine whether there's a consensus to moveâwhich there currently is notâand not whether there is a consensus about it being the primary topic.
4210:"Indians". Or that the earth going around sun was a revolutionary idea. You just need a casual interest in horoscopes, maps, explorers, country names or basic astronomy. Any general book about horoscopes, maps, explorers, astronomy, etc. if it has a history section, will inevitably mention Ptolemy. Their readers do not need to have any interest or familiarity with ancient Greece at all, but that name will be thrown at their face. Whereas nobody will come across any Macedonian Ptolemies unless they are reading specialized works on Diadochi or Biblical translation history. The only time the Ptolemies might come up in non-specialist works is if they are ever curious about Cleopatra.
2628:
or from his father and perhaps grandfather, who may have received it unchanged from their patron. It wouldn't have been terribly useful for distinguishing him from others, unlike his surname; by this period praenomina had become "fossilized" in many Roman families (for instance, every member of the
Flavian dynasty whose praenomen we know was named "Titus"; even brothers in this family shared the same praenomen, and were distinguished by their cognomina), and most of them held no personal significance to people who weren't ethnically Roman. Writers mentioning him centuries later would likely have been even less inclined to record a name that held little or no significance to them.
4234:
stone in scientific history. In truth, he probably set astronomy back by a millennia by shoring up geocentrism with a degree of plausibility, when heliocentrism had already been proposed in the 3rd century BC. But again, regardless of your personal thoughts, by pageviews readers want this page and the page of
Ptolemy son of Lagos (who equally, anyone with even a lick of fondness for ancient Greek history will know of) more or less equally. We don't need to guess what readers want, because they have already cast their votes, and those votes are equal before we even get to any of the other Ptolemies, and hence there is no
3421:
registered as "Top
Priority" for Mathematics, "Top Importance" for Classical Greece and Rome, Astrology, "High Importance" for Astronomy, Geography, History of Science, Environment, and "Mid-Importance" for Science. So these projects certainly have a strong interest in the fate of this article. My suggestion is to put an alert on these WikiProject pages, to gather more opinions. Since I don't want to appear as if canvassing, I want to first gather opinions here. (P.S. Ptolemy I Soter is only "High Importance" for "Classical Greece and Rome" and "Greece".) Since it overlaps both, at minimum an alert to
2826:
confusion to readers by screwing with the redirect and scattering people in different directions. The world knows and remembers only one great
Ptolemy. Others are dwarves by comparison and already disambiguated anyway by numerals and nicknames. Across a huge range of subject areas and topics, references to simple "Ptolemy" refers to this great Ptolemy, not any other. By a gigantic margin. This is what the vast majority expects when they click "Ptolemy", and will be very surprised not to find. Why confuse and complicate life for readers? There is no gain and great cost to messing around with this.
2400:
Ptolemy the scholar. People know of the "Library of
Alexandria", yes, but they don't know who built it (indeed, specialist historians don't know who built it either - most tend to argue for Ptolemy II or even Ptolemy III, not Ptolemy I). And even if I were to write "Ptolemy made Alexandria famous in antiquity", I'd bet most would still assume I meant Ptolemy the scholar. His legacy is just much more outsized in human history, and has had far more long-term significance. There is no comparison. Regardless of what is the name this article, "Ptolemy" has to redirect here, period.
1955:
665:
2385:, merely against the existence of one. So no, in your example, none of your Johns should be at John; a disambiguation page should be at John. And Ptolemy is not "an obscure Macedonian general"; he is the man that built the Library of Alexandria and made the city one of the greatest of antiquity while establishing a dynasty that would last three centuries. And as the pageview comparison already provided show, he is just as popular as the philosopher, with the topics equally engaged with by readers.
655:
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247:
2841:
disagreeing with that sentiment. This is an encyclopedia, not an astronomy fan club, and the pageviews between this
Ptolemy and the next most prominent one are basically equal - and that's before we even get onto the other 15 King Ptolemies or the dozens of other individuals since named Ptolemy. Your link count is meanwhile misleading. You will find that many of those links are simply by virtue of the pages containing the "Ancient Greece" template at the bottom. An example is the page
449:
4877:
well known; that is clearly false. Any one-page history of astronomy mentions
Ptolemy; probably any list of the three most influential people in the history of astronomy includes him; his prominence is comparable to that of Copernicus. Only because of Copernicus and his ilk did it cease to be the case that everyone who attends a university is required to study the books of Ptolemy. It is absurd to suggest that you'd have to know your ancient astronomers to have heard of him.
2363:
are also written in a given context, where readers already expect it, and will be unsurprised. If I am writing about
Alexander's military, readers expect "Ptolemy" to mean Ptolemy I Soter, not Ptolemy III Euergetes nor Ptolemy the scholar. Similarly, if I am writing about the Beatles for Beatles fans, readers expect my using "John" to mean "John Lennon" and not "John F. Kennedy" nor even "Elton John". That doesn't make "John Lennon" the primary topic for "John".
1150:
1779:
2114:, whether any particular individual thinks the general/king or the scholar is the primary topic quite likely largely depends on whether they read more history or philosophy, though, needless to say, as an Alexandrian, the scholar was no doubt a namesake of the Ptolemaic dynasty. For me personally, today, Alexander's general actually looms larger on the consciousness, though I think when I was a student, it was the philosopher. It is also worth noting that per
3206:"The scholar is much more obscure than the Ptolemaic monarchs." I don't think so; it seems more the other way around. Ptolemy the astronomer was the author of one of the books of the quadrivium, the advanced courses in medieval universities. And whoever knows the basics of the history of astronomy knows of the changed from Ptolemaic astronomy to heliocentric astronomy. Maybe in your parochial neighborhood the Ptolemaic monarchs are more well known.
3727:
history, who had relatively little influence on events beyond Egypt and its immediate neighbors, and hardly any influence on events after their deaths. I think I saw someone here arguing that Ptolemy I Soter was important because he participated in and perhaps influenced the campaigns of Alexander, but his own article here has relatively little to say about his role in history prior to his appointment as Satrap of Egypt after Alexander's death.
1900:
coordinates would be utterly useless. Useless until someone performed the laborious task of converting them to geocentric coordinates for Earth-based astronomers to use. There would be no way to compute the apparent position or brightness of planets, nor compute sunrise/sunset times and positions, no way to compute local time, no way to compute latitude or longitude, no way to navigate, etc. for locations on Earth using heliocentric coordinates.
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4048:
did astronomy were Arabs; how it was reintroduced into Europe via a translation of a translation of a very long book (from Greek to Arabic to Latin); how it was superseded by heliocentric astronomy; how everyone at an advanced level in European universisites for centuries was required to be familiar with Ptolemaic astronomy, etc. A few people also know that there were kings named Ptolemy. C.S. Lewis's book
1471:
1481:
1450:
308:
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1813:
849:
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207:
3731:
times (most modern discussions of his areas of scholarship will begin with him and his writings). All of the articles on the Ptolemaic kings have article names based on natural disambiguation; the titles are how historians commonly refer to them. And the title of this article is how the geographer is usually referred to; so by our guidelines it should probably stay here.
238:
2452:
Alexander's innovative but often ostensibly hair-brained stratagems and tactics. So in facilitating Alexander, Ptolemy too very much reshaped the world. And that was before he founded a dynasty/empire and built Alexandria up brick by brick, without which bastion of culture, civilization and learning we would have no Claudius Ptolemy some 400 years later in the Roman era.
1602:
564:
960:
917:
2594:
and for this reason Ptolemy was almost certainly a Roman citizen. We don't always know the praenomina of Romans from imperial times, particularly when they were Romans of Greek extraction with Greek surnames, and we know too little of Ptolemy's life to know whether he was born a Roman citizen, or obtained Roman citizenship in his lifetime.
970:
4401:
but if I labelled him as such, I would be duly mocked. I remain unawed by the widespread scattering of often trivial mentions to Claudius Ptolemy, whose long-term significance certainly presided up until the Renaissance period. His input is footnote material these days. The bracketed mention on the Columbus page failed verification, fyi.
2624:, Claudius Ptolemaeus, a member of the 14th company of... boot makers? at Ostia, honoured in an inscription from AD 198. Note that in two of the three examples, we don't have a praenomen, probably because it was omitted to save spaceâpraenomina weren't considered very important in this period, and monument carving could be expensive!
1181:
4831:. There is clearly no primary topic. The ngrams and pageviews evidence support the move. No evidence was provided that this article is the primary topic. Most opposition comments are based on personal preference, anecdotes or policies inapplicable to a primary topic discussion, such as COMMONNAME. It could be argued that
318:
2743:
5238:
No, you would still need a consensus for that, and clearly there isn't one. You can't simply state an argument and then insist that you win unless proved wrong. PRIMARYTOPIC is an argument being advanced for moving the page to another title, and it hasn't convinced most people. Your argument seems
4324:
They do not have to have a "lick of interest" in Ancient Greek science, or Ancient Greece at all. Heck, they might have heard about Ancient Greece for the first time on Knowledge yesterday. They came across the name "Ptolemy" when reading about constellations, latitude and longitude, Columbus, basic
4286:
The published Latin versions of the letter are almost all titled "Letter of Columbus, on the islands of India beyond the Ganges recently discovered". The term "India beyond the Ganges" (India extra Gangem) was the archaic term frequently used by earlier geographers (e.g., Ptolemy) to refer vaguely to
3936:
either "Claudius Ptolemy" or "Ptolemy (scholar)". I don't buy that this person is the primary topic for this name, most people would almost certainly think of Alexander's general or one of his descendants. The scholar may have been closer to a primary topic once upon a time during the Middle Ages and
3326:
Don't both of those Ngrams prove the opposite point, that though indeed the scholar may have loomed larger historically, those days have definitively ended? In 2019, uses of the term Ptolemaic dynasty exceeded both the scholar-related terms you threw at it, and it's clear what direction these overall
2825:
from other Knowledge pages to this Ptolemy page, which would be confusingly redirected to a pointless disambiguation page. I don't know why Iskandar323 is trying to force the world to learn a new name few use, when Ptolemy is universally known and available. But the true crime would be to introduce
2362:
Scholarly works are written for specialists, Knowledge is written for general readers. To general readers, "Ptolemy" is the well-known astronomer-geographer that pops up frequently in many contexts, not some obscure Macedonian general or Egyptian king that people rarely come across. Scholarly works
1895:
The only way it would be a "blunder" is if the Greeks were launching interplanetary space probes, in which case the geocentric model would be a disaster. Or if they lived on the sun. Or had ignored some sort of evidence for heliocentrism. Other than that, the two models were mathematically identical,
5578:
on the grounds that it's not broken and so we don't need to stress about how to fix it. I generally distrust ngram figures as being divorced from context, so that doesn't sway me either way. However, I am persuaded that the bare bones of astronomical history (i.e., the high points of the complicated
5198:
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is not an exception to the principle of determining consensus; there is disagreement over what ngrams show, as one ngram showed overwhelming support for the present title, and another formulation suggested a surge in publications for "Ptolemaic Egypt", although since that would never
5194:
But this is a proposed move of the page currently occupying that title, and there clearly is no consensus for doing so at this time. The impetus is on those urging a move to develop a consensus that it should be moved, not to demonstrate the lack of a primary topic to someone who will then move the
4400:
What is with this 'Macedonian general' labelling, characterizing Ptolemy Lagus by the middle portion of his career trajectory, not its culmination? It feels like rhetoric and does little service to your claim to impartially serve the reader. I'm sure Claudius Ptolemy was an apprentice at some point,
4233:
I could just bounce the "fascinated with obscure topics" line back at you. Most people could read plenty about any of the topics you mentioned without ever hearing the name "Ptolemy", and I think you are massively overplaying his resonance in the modern era. Today, he is no more than just a stepping
4157:
here? I fear what you are alluding to might be a rather narrow demographic not particularly representative of the entire global English-speaking population. When people suggest Knowledge has systemic bias, I think underlying assumptions like 'everyone should know their Greek astronomers' are part of
3395:
Under Knowledge's naming scheme, there is no difference in a pagename with "Ptolemy" or one with "Ptolemy (parenthetical disambiguator)". As such "Ptolemy (scholar)" and "Ptolemy" are exactly the same, as the name is the part outside the brackets and the bracket are used to distinguish it from other
2593:
I believe you are correct in saying that "Claudius" was not his "first name", in the sense that it probably wasn't chosen for him by his parents, and he probably wasn't called "Claudius" by his family and friendsâand I agree with your position on the titleâbut the name is still apparently authentic,
2556:
He was a Roman citizen and his full name was Claudius Ptolemaeus; no sources appear to doubt that this was his full name, so I do not see what supports the idea that Ptolemy is his standalone name in the same way as these other scholars of antiquity. As I briefly mentioned in my opening comment, and
2436:
I prefer my subjective metric where I consider the variety of subjects and topics where Ptolemy comes up. And the list is large and the range is vast. It's not even close to comparable. One man has a vast impact in many areas over thousands of years, whose legacy still stirs passions today half-way
1903:
In addition, there was no way to test heliocentric vs geocentric. There were no "mistakes" "repeated." Science is evidence-based, and there was simply no evidence either way, and no way to obtain any evidence for the first 2,000-2,500 years or so of the geocentric model's existence. Until then, both
1752:
This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Knowledge than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations
4876:
even though he was also a geographer, because his work in astronomy is the reason why everyone who's gone to school has heard of him. ok, So apparently it is exaggerated to say "everyone who's gone to school", but I think it's closer to the truth than to say that the monarchs named Ptolemy are more
4342:
Ptolemy is already disambiguated from Ptolemy I Soter and all other Ptolemaic kings. There is no need to make things more confusing. You have yet to provide any evidence that the current article is problematic, or that general readers would be "surprised" to find the article "Ptolemy" is about the
4332:
My knowledge is deep and vast. I know more about both Ptolemy and Ptolemy I Soter than most people. But I am not the measure, nor am I using myself as the measure. In this, as in everything I do on Knowledge, I try to place myself in the position of a general reader, and try to do what best serves
4209:
My point is precisely that it's not specialized knowledge. Quite the contrary. One does not have to be a specialist in ancient Greek science to wonder or know where the names of the constellations come from. Or where latitude and longitude lines come from. Or why Columbus called Native Americans
4052:, about how to understand medieval literature, gives a lot of attention to Ptolemaic astronomy, since that was such a big thing in medieval education. Apparently some people's experience is different from mine. Those people seem quite alien to me. So it seems to be a matter of what field you're in.
2627:
I'm assuming that we know Ptolemy's name either from his writings, or mentions by later writers. While Ptolemy would probably have wanted to indicate that he was a Roman citizen, he might not have cared much about a praenomen that he either received unchanged from whoever granted him ciitizenship,
1860:
Ptolemy observed the motion of the Sun and Moon. His equation of time gave sinusoidal deviations of the Sun from its mean motion. This works quite well to get an epicycle. It appears he repeated the mistakes of his predecessors in applying the same procedure to the planets. Could this have resulted
4126:
That's a lot of bandying around of the word ignorance. People simply have different knowledge sets, and there are no prescribed knowledge sets that make some people more knowledgeable or ignorant than anyone else. Ultimately, knowledge of ancient Greek scholar is a highly specialist knowledge set,
4081:
This doesn't require familiarity with a "field", but just familiarity with the history of anything. Because Ptolemaic stuff is everywhere - maps, countries, horoscopes, etc. The history of many, many things runs into Ptolemy at some point. I'm assuming the people who "never heard" of Ptolemy were
4047:
My experience is that the name Ptolemy refers to the astronomer, i.e. this scholar in his role as an astronomer, and the Ptolemaic monarchs are obscure and maybe most people have never heard of them, although everybody has heard of Ptolemaic astronomy; how it dominated the Arab world when most who
3726:
IMO the geographer/astronomer/scholar/whatever label you apply to him is a giant in the history of science and the world; hardly any discussion of the history of astronomy or geography or science in general will fail to mention him. The Ptolemaic kings of Egypt were, individually, minor figures in
5367:
Bugger off. It doesn't buttress anything, and you can go stick your bad faith. Occam's razor, should you choose to use it, would simply lead you to grasp.... Sometimes it's hard to account for the fickleness of the community.... No shit.... The only problem I see here is endless aspersion.... You
5271:
But it's still just your opinion that there's no primary topicâand a majority of people in this discussion have rejected that opinion. You don't get to ignore everybody who disagrees with you by declaring that you're right and they're wrong. Most of the people in this discussion think that this
3584:
That was what I was referring to. The responses to the first oppose comment, the first of which is unsigned. They fail to distinguish content about this Ptolemy (using only the name Ptolemy) from content where a qualified version of some other name has already been established, justifying a later
1899:
But for astronomers who live on Earth, geocentric coordinated are what we use, be it 500 BCE or 2024 ADE. If you own a computerized telescope, it operates on geocentric az-alt or geocentric ra-dec coordinates. In fact, if the Greeks had computed planet positions in heliocentric coordinates, those
5509:, and whereas those to Ptolemy I Soter are almost entirely from the narrow temporal and geographical range of Hellenistic history, those to Ptolemy are from a much broader range of articles, more of them - to my eyes - of great significance in themselves than of those linking to Ptolemy I Soter.
4066:
Yes. This is precisely why I noted in my opening comment that there would likely be different subjective opinions based on choice of reading. The very fact that there are people who can be on widely different ends of the spectrum in terms of their understanding of the connotations of the name is
4021:
But practically everyone who studies astronomy at any pointâand most schoolchildren are taught the basics on multiple occasions, even if this is the only time that most people actively study itâwill begin by discussing the way that our understanding of the universe has progressed from Ptolemy to
3838:
As to who is the clear and definitive primary topic, one important data point is that after Ptolemy's books on astronomy were reintroduced into Europe they became one of the most important parts of the curriculum of late medieval universities in Europe. You can't say the same of the king by that
3730:
The successors of Alexander are not without historical value, but nobody is likely to encounter most of them by name unless in a course on ancient history; Cleopatra VII is the main exception, but that doesn't help this nomination. Ptolemy the geographer was influential from antiquity to modern
3420:
It is becoming apparent that some commentators here may not necessarily be particularly familiar with this topic, and given its high importance it should be given a wider reading with more knowledgeable editors. There have been no alerts to the relevant WikiProjects for this RM. This article is
5202:
Consensus is widespread agreement among members of the community, and if a majority of those expressing opinionsâor even a very large minorityâdisagree with the others, then there is no consensus. That was the problem with the comment left with the relister, who seemed to assume that there was
4554:
to Claudius Ptolemy. I agree with the commentary above that this Ptolemy is far more likely to be the person readers are looking for at this title. I believe that the evidence already linked to above makes that clear, but I also have this nugget of personal experience/OR to add to the mix. The
4328:
It is our duty to help general readers find this article, as painlessly as possible. It is a disservice to sidetrack readers through confusing pages because some Knowledge editors have a kink for obscure Macedonian militarism or fell asleep during science classes, and assume everyone else has
3706:
Common names as regularly used in English are preferred to the Latin forms or official nomenclature, which should be created as redirects. Examples of article titles: Livy, with the redirect Titus Livius; Pliny the Younger, with the redirects Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus and Plinius Minor;
3400:
rules. The disambiguated page name is not something to be looked for in other people's publications, as they can disambiguate however they want. If it is a paper book, they can have multiple topics with the exact same topic name, but this would cause a name collision on a website for different
2516:
Because most ancient figures usually had only one name - Pythagoras, Aristotle, Eudoxus, Strabo, Plutarch, Vitruvius, etc. Unlike Renaissance figures, ancient Greeks didn't have surnames. Ptolemy isn't a surname, its his only name (in Greek). Claudius is a Latin name, sometimes added in Latin
2399:
I was only illustrating different expectations of different contexts. Only in narrow specialized contexts does Ptolemy I Soter seem the primary meaning of "Ptolemy". In all other contexts, "Ptolemy" is assumed to mean Ptolemy the scholar. And yes, Ptolemy I Soter is very obscure compared to
2272:
The simple "Ptolemy" is pretty clearly the scholar. Unless the context is specifically about Alexander's military campaigns, you never see the commander referred to simply as "Ptolemy". Not even in the context of Hellenistic kings (he is always Ptolemy I, or Ptolemy I Soter, numeral needed to
2451:
I can't speak to the long-term metrics. I'm certainly not here based on any digital media. I would not be surprised if the balance of interest was simply shifting. In more recent works on Alexander, Ptolemy has risen more and more to the fore as the practical mind and logistical genius behind
2432:
Not sure what that represents. But adjust to any other year, or encompass multiple years, and they are very mismatched. Not sure what happened in 2022, but Ptolemy outdoes Ptolemy I Soter by your metric by two or three times in nearly all prior years. Is there a computer game or movie out
4573:
more likely to have heard of this bloke, and I think that COMMONNAME most probably applies here. If we are to disabiguate it, which I don't think we should do, then it would be much better to keep the name as simply 'Ptolemy' (which is how he is almost always referred to), and to select an
2840:
As of this comment, there were five support votes (six as of this reply), so I am not sure why you are personalizing this, and this nonsense about the scholar being the only one anyone knows is your opinion, and one that has been debunked even here by plenty of other editors turning up and
2234:
4218:
guy. That is the readers we serve here. That is the audience that has to be kept in mind, not the peculiar tastes of Knowledge editors. And complicating life and causing confusion to general readers, because you happen to be fascinated with obscure topics, is a disservice to them.
2702:. Having edited a page does not automatically makes someone more qualified to discuss it (they may have edited it for the worse); and coming new to an article does not make anyone else less qualified to make observations and discuss it. Broad perspective is a good thing, hence RFCs.
2635:
that we tend to associate with Roman culture doesn't really tell us anything about Ptolemy's citizenship; but the fact that he was called "Claudius" at all is a strong indication that he was a citizen, even if the name was and still is generally omitted except when introducing him.
4729:
3864:
as nobody uses that name. In spite of what some have said, Ptolemy the scholar is not more famous than the king(s), so there must be a disambiguation in the title. It seems that most people have voted on "Claudius Ptolemy", so I suggest another vote of "Ptolemy (scholar)" alone.
3703:
as a more specific guideline that could be read to supersede the general principlesâif we accept the argument that Ptolemy should be considered a Roman, rather than a Greek, which I think is debatableâbut it does not matter much here, because the result would be the same:
5328:
If most of the people who've given their opinion are opposed to the move, then there clearly isn't consensus for the move. The relisting comment implied that there was. No matter how often or loudly you say it, "you're wrong so I win" doesn't demonstrate a consensus.
5257:, the article will have to be moved regardless of the personal preference of other editors. That's the whole point of having policies and guidelines, that they need to be followed. Of course, it will be the closer who determines if the evidence does support the move.
4190:
So 25% of global English speakers might have seen a fleeting glance of the name in a childhood textbook? If the definition of ignorance used earlier in this chain of comments is forgetting a piece of minutiae from our early school years then we are likely all dammed.
390:
4325:
astronomy, horoscopes etc. They might not know whether this "Ptolemy" is Greek, Persian or Indian, or whether he was a scholar, magician, bishop or even a king. But if they want to find out more about "Ptolemy", they will come here to Knowledge, to this article.
4320:
General readers come across "Ptolemy" in all sorts of topics and contexts. Not everyone will remember the name, I am sure most will yawn and their eyes will glaze over it, but they will have come across it. And those that are curious to follow up will look up
1279:
4561:
Pupils should find out about the way that ideas about the solar system have developed, understanding how the geocentric model of the solar system gave way to the heliocentric model by considering the work of scientists such as Ptolemy, Alhazen and
3295:
has "Ptolemaic system" handily beating "Ptolemaic Egypt", although now they are tied. When I look at book titles, this guy is usually just Ptolemy, while the rulers of Egypt are usually disambiguated by numeral or nickname. Compare Geoffrey Gunn's
4568:
Ptolemy was, and what he contributed to the development of our understanding of the solar system. There is no similar provision for any other Ptolemys (?Ptolemies?) in the history curriculum. I imagine it's similar in other countries - people are
4945:
You'd likelier come across him in science or geography classes. Ptolemy is not a historian. Most of your readings above are historians. And more specifically historians with a military focus. I guess that's where your teacher's interests lay.
4085:
There is no ambiguity. Ignorance or forgetfulness of a few editors is not an excuse. There is only one person in history consistently referred to as "Ptolemy" alone, and that is the scholar. And your two favorite sources agree with me. Both
3709:(internal list arrangement modified for space). Just like in the present article, in most of these examples there are other persons with similar names, but these are the ones that readers are most likely to be searching for under those titles.
4298:
The Copernican Revolution was the paradigm shift from the Ptolemaic model of the heavens, which described the cosmos as having Earth stationary at the center of the universe, to the heliocentric model with the Sun at the center of the Solar
5172:: usage and long-term significance. Pageviews and ngrams would suggest that there is no primary topic. Opposers don't seem to agree with that, but so far their main arguments rely too much on personal preference and anecdote in my opinion.
5453:
Pageviews are potentially misleading. If readers already know of a person, they won't so often bother to click on links to their article. The number of links in the encyclopedia may be a better guide to the person's overall significance.
3562:: Sorry, what is the Ngram evidence you are talking about? None has, as far as I am aware, been provided as part of any support arguments, so the thrust of this comment is a little confusing. In ictu oculi did suggest a gbooks search for
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were called "Ptolemy" means that none of them are ever just called by the plain name without a number at first reference, so there is no ambiguity. Yet another time-wasting nom by this editor, who of course has never edited the article.
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options were equal guesses, so the Greeks went with the philosophy of geocentrism and of all motion being perfect circles. It wasn't until the invention of the telescope that observation of phases of Venus proved heliocentrism "correct."
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A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)
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Knowledge is written for general readers, not specialists. Most people come here to satisfy casual curiosity, because they read somewhere that zodiac signs were invented by some guy called "Ptolemy", and want to know more about
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If I see a failed verification, I will address it as an editor, and here I stated plainly and transparently the problem. If you have a problem with that, it is your problem and your problem alone. Aspersion is 100% bad faith.
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from using theory to interpret observations? Was there a tendency to interpret signs in the heavens? Of projecting ideas onto observations? If so, his geocentrism can be viewed as a blunder, an over generalization of a theory.
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be confused with the present title, and no formulation submitted here would, it doesn't help. There is plainly no consensus that ngrams favour a move. Long-term significance would require that the article stay at this title.
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The traditional 48 constellations, consisting of the Zodiac and 36 more (now 38, following the division of Argo Navis in three constellations) are listed by Ptolemy, a Greco-Roman astronomer from Alexandria in Egypt, in his
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No, I declared the problem in advance and then edited it in line with the obvious, which is correcting to the link to reflect the only famous ancient Greek Ptolemy, not a Roman Greco-Egyptian. Claudius Ptolemy was not an
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merely asleep in class, or their eyes glazed over and didn't retain the name (*sigh* another old Greek whose name starts with P), or simply don't have a habit of reading at all. Because it is pretty hard to escape him.
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as the common name, but not the obvious primary topic. Note to closing admin: some comments in opposition are from people unfamiliar with Knowledge naming policies and policy based arguments should come first.
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for the name, and easily so. You have yet to show one work of general reference where he is not. So far you have been merely throwing sand into the air, claiming there is a problem, when there isn't.
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also have their articles labelled by their full name while Copernicus, Brahe and Kepler would have been sufficient. Many more examples can easily be found -- why should Claudius Ptolemy be an exception?
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applies. Ptolemy is known as a geographer to many with no interest in the Macedonian general or his successors as rulers of Egypt and often no awareness that such people ever existed. On Knowledge, see
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differentiate from other Ptolemaic kings). The founding king is almost never referred to simply as "Ptolemy" without the numeral. Whereas in any other context, simple "Ptolemy" is always the scholar.
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Consensus is not determined by a vote count, and you shouldn't be declaring majorities or implying votes win the day. This is for the closer to decide based on strength of policy and evidence.
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While that comes from the non-statutory guidance part (so it's a suggestion, not law), it is nevertheless the case that almost everyone in England will have received formal instruction on who
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That is absurd. Everybody who knows even a little bit about the history of astronomy thinks of this person when the name Ptolemy is mentioned. Alexander the Great is obscure by comparison.
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on the scholar ironically has an entire page and a half devoted to the historic confusion between the scholar and the various King Ptolemies, and the subsequent process of disambiguation.
3287:. (1) Our current dab page sucks. (2) This guy is just "Ptolemy" in most situations and there are many more situations when he is mentioned than any of the ruling Ptolemies. For example,
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3826:. In my experience, "Ptolemy" with no further context, always refers to the scholar. I'm convinced that for the vast majority of folks, if they know only one Ptolemy, it's this one.
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5531:. There really is no comparison. So to be clear to the closer: I am absolutely asserting that this is the primary topic for Ptolemy by educational value and longterm significance.
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These are articles written for general readers on these topics, not articles for people interested in Ancient Greek history. If they want to know more, they can click on "Ptolemy".
4891:"everyone who's gone to school has heard of him" I don't remember ever hearing about Claudius Ptolemy in school. Our lessons on ancient history and literature focused on texts by
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Sometimes, mostly for names from antiquity, a single word is traditional and sufficient to identify a person unambiguously: Aristotle, Livy, Plutarch, Charlemagne, Fibonacci, etc.
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Oh dear, there are rather a lot of them, with too high importance ratings. I've downgraded the "Religion" one from top to low, but is this actually needed at all? And nothing for
2615:, Claudius Ptolemaeus, a twelve-year-old boy buried along with his sister, ten-year-old Claudia Ptolemais, in a first century tomb at Rome, built by their mother, Julia Onesime;
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principles that just fly totally over your head? Needless to say, the complaint that someone has not edited an article is perhaps the saddest and most meaningless variant of an
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4380:* PT.2, "by long-term significance" and "educational value", Ptolemy the scholar trumps any other use by miles. Indeed, by his track record already, there are few figures of
3589:, in which the title character has the first name "Ptolemy"; I think nobody sane would argue that that interferes with the primary meaning of the unqualified name "Ptolemy". â
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move. Nobody calls him by full name in literature, nobody calls him Ptolemy (scholar), people just use common name Ptolemy. Look into Jesus or Galileo, that's the same thing.
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As I said in my opening comment, people will have subjectively different perspectives on the matter, but by the objective metric of reader engagement, these two subjects are
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and not everyone learns classics. As for the encyclopedia, immediately before "Ptolemy" comes "Ptolemies", and the scope for confusion between these remains as it ever was.
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Since no contemporary depictions or descriptions of Ptolemy are known to have existed, later artists' impressions are unlikely to have reproduced his appearance accurately.
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Clearly this is some type of renaissance romanticism and a Greco-Egyptian in the second century wouldn't have actually appeared this way? He looks like a Dutch painter.
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Ptolemy are looking for a pharaoh, but on the other hand, most of those have a regnal number or an additional name or qualificative added to their name (such as Ptolemy
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Rather than tag it as citation needed or failed verification, you removed valid, pertinent and constructive content from the encyclopedia. You could have searched for
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on Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
3544:. The n-gram searchers above are unconvincing because they fail to distinguish "Ptolemy" used as a name by itself from its usage as part of longer qualified names. â
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scholar rather than a Macedonian general. You have not provided any evidence from RS works of general reference or for general readers. The RS works you cite, both
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Please don't go editing the pages above to remove references to Ptolemy. That is the second time you've done this in discussion. That shows rather bad faith.
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You should probably take a break and let this discussion evolve. You have been constantly replying to everything and everyone. I am sure you don't want to appear
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To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?
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I think you should assume that he meant to say Alexander's Ptolemy, i.e. Ptolemy I Soter, not Alexander himself, since this discussion concerns the Ptolemies.
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or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.
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2337:- in fact, perhaps it is that page which should move to the base name. There are in fact so many Ptolemies that you get works solely on sorting through them:
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Nobody calls him âClaudius Ptolemy,â and not even everybody knows that he had another name than just âPtolemy.â I do understand that most people looking for
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What? You don't need to be a specialist or a classicist to have heard of Ptolemy, didn't we all learn about Ptolemy in school? I did. E.g. see just below.
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I say "correct" in quotes because the sun is not actually the center of the universe, like heliocentrism claimed. But then again, the big bang theory says
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3015:... and I'm entitled to respond to your responses to me, not least those with aspersions. Yes, I've added Ptolemy I Soter to the Ancient Greeks template.
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for example introduce him simply as "Ptolemy". That is like saying Barack Obama is never referred to as just "Obama" because that is not his full name.
3634:"Using the last name as the page title for a person, when the first name is also known and used, is discouraged, even if that name would be unambiguous"
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is a better alternative title (I'd say so), but that is irrelevant to the primary topic discussion and can be decided in a later discussion if needed.
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The main divisions of India into India intra Gangem and India extra Gangem, have been adopted by the majority of subsequentt geogrwphers, from Ptolemy.
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because it avoids the problem of nobody using "Claudius". I concur with T8612 both as to rationale and separation of these red herring-esque options.
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4486:- no quotes required - and quickly confirmed that Ptolemy is not merely an example but the geographer from whom others took the term, eg by finding
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On the contrary, this is clearly the primary topic for the plain name, since none of the others candidates are ever identified by the plain name.
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Without having seen this present thread, I'd have thought the astronomer is the obvious primary topic and the monarchs are obscure by comparison.
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All that proves is that "Claudius Ptolemy" is hardly ever used by anyone, which is a key reason to oppose this nom to rename the article to that.
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4448:: "India Extra Gangem" is given right there as Tabula XI Asiae of Ptolemy. Please don't remove references to try to manipulate this discussion.
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His astronomical system of Earth-centered universe alone lasted well over a millennium. His notable influence over many generations is unmatched
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Ptolemy by itself is pretty much always refers to the mathematician and astronomer. I'm familar with him but the other is much less well known.
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if it is deemed that the mathematician is not primary above all over Ptolemies combined then what dab would you recommend better than Claudius?
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We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.
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to be that you don't need a consensus to agree that there's no primary topic because there's no primary topicâand that's circular reasoning.
3610:. He's almost never called by both names, except occasionally to introduce him, after which he's just "Ptolemy", or sometimes "Ptolemaeus".
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encountered any written reference to "Claudius Ptolemy", which is the rename you are supporting? There is a case for redirecting "Ptolemy" to
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It was unverified and in brackets (so already delineated as secondary information), so I chose to remove it. But thank you for remedying it.
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to insert Ptolemy I Soter on that template. This seems like a rather strange campaign. I hope you're not trying to influence things here.
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Obscure? If these books or articles have a history section, then Ptolemy will be inevitably mentioned. Our own articles on them do, e.g.:
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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apparently includes every kid in my then US-school system, plus those using the current version of the National Curriculum for England.
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No, this should have been done in the first place. It can't be called canvassing so long as all projects it is tagged for are alerted.
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I think it is an assumption that the average reader on Knowledge has a high degree of familiarity with medieval astronomy curriculums.
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Ptolemy the king is frequently referred to as just Ptolemy in works published by scholarly outlets about dynastic Egypt, including the
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5553:--there were a lot of relevant Ptolemies, especially the Macedonian, and a disambiguation page could be very useful to help people. I
5220:. On the contrary, if evidence is provided that shows there is no primary topic, then the article needs to be moved per long-standing
4635:. The scholar is generally known by the single name, but the single name does not overwhelmingly refer to the scholar. In particular,
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agreement to move the article, but no agreement as to the title. There is no agreement to move the article from its present title.
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The impetus is on those urging a move to develop a consensus that it should be moved, not to demonstrate the lack of a primary topic
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The scholar is much more obscure than the Ptolemaic monarchs. I have seen websites and book pages dedicated to the genealogy of the
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In its current state, readers looking for Ptolemy arrive here easily. You want to make it complicated for them. For what reason?
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5120:: It seems impossible to secure this Ptolemy as the primary topic, but what qualifier to use in case this happens is disputed. â
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my gbooks search it favours the mathematician slightly, but is admittedly more evenly divided that google or scholarly searchesâ
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I was about to quote that very sentence! But I also note that the top of the "Naming Conventions" guideline also points to
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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RS works of general reference (Knowledge's standard). Let me put down a challenge to you or anybody here. Find me one -
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Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Knowledge, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .
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rather than Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus or Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus, sitting in happy compatibility with
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making the base name a disambiguation page. The dynastic founder and the philosopher both come up somewhat frequently --
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Talk about understatement. I agree that the image is jarring. It is no more contemporary, but I prefer the one at right.
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name in history that have had greater long-term significance or educational value than Ptolemy. He's already proven it.
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content on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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the primary topic, and arguing that it's not until the cows come home won't create a consensus that doesn't exist.
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I object "weakly" because I wouldn't particularly mind if the article title was his full name "Claudius Ptolemy".
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Ideally we should be looking at the evidence to see if there is a primary topic per the two aspects mentioned in
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Changing the eras to CE. Ptolemy has no relation to Christianity, there is no reason why the date should be AD.
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If dab is correctly understood, anyone named "Ptolemy" may go by that name, but for purposes of WP the name
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Ptolemy's 2nd-century Geography used the same prime meridian but measured latitude from the Equator instead.
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Ok but the vast majority of the people, (scholars or laymen), are not invested in the rather small field of
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subjects on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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was known simply as Ptolemy until after his death, and is often referred to as such e.g. in histories of
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The construction of the zodiac is described in Ptolemy's comprehensive 2nd century AD work, the Almagest.
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Germanicus, with the redirect Germanicus Julius Caesar; Trajan, with the redirect Marcus Ulpius Traianus
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guideline. Unless there is some other policy that would override PTOPIC, which no one has argued for.
4800:). Claudius Ptolemy is better than Ptolemy as a primary topic, but it's true that it's very uncommon.
4377:* PT.1 by "greatest usage" - both in quantity and range, "Ptolemy" means the scholar, not the general;
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stories, I have rarely encountered any written reference on the obscure scholar in the last 25 years.
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etc. (and what with Claudius Ptolemy not really being an ancient Greek, but a Roman Greco-Egyptian).
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transition from geocentrism to heliocentrism) are more widely taught than the Macedonian Ptolemies.
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per common name and long-term significance. A good discussion above, seems to have sorted this out.
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What failed verification? The reference to classical geography is given, or click the link through:
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right now so that it looks that way? My god, you're making it very difficult to assume good faith.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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is used, "I" or "I Soter" dabbing him from others named Ptolemy. Gentle reminder to practice the
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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was already there. Do you have an actual point to make? If so, take it to talk (the right one).
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with all the works that have Ptolemy I, Ptolemy I Soter or Ptolemy Philadelphus in the title.
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disambiguation and screwing up redirects for no reason. Personal ignorance is not an excuse.
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Two options have been suggested: one natural, following the first name-last name default of
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show greater popularity for "Ptolemaic astronomy" than "Ptolemaic dynasty". Until recently,
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Because indeed there is a numerical point here, because there were 15 Ptolemies going up to
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per PRIMARYTOPIC, the other Ptolemy is known as Ptolemy I so is naturally disambiguated.--
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Renaissance when his work was very influential, but that was hundreds of years ago now.
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The Ptolemaic kings are already disambiguated by their numerals. There is no need for
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Walrasiad said "Claudius Ptolemy" wasn't an issue, but opposed repurposing "Ptolemy".
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3345:: I've pulled in all the relevant links to the disambiguation page now. Have a look.
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https://referenceworks.brillonline.com/entries/brill-s-new-pauly/ptolemaeus-e1012900
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as Astrolynx also opines, there is no particular reason not to go with the default
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exactly, google and wiki library searches are overwhelmingly for the mathematician
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1981:
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as a useful sampling on in-text usage. That can also pretty insightful search on
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should be given. Does anyone have objections to placing alerts on these pages?
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And just noticed that rather than recognize your mistake, you went ahead with a
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1304:. To help assess the quality and importance of geography articles, please see:
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Requested articles/Social sciences/Geography, cities, regions and named places
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3536:. Nobody else is just called "Ptolemy" without qualification, so this is the
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redirect to their main pages as primary topics, not to disambiguation pages.
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You asked for any written reference. There are 100 pages on Google Scholar.
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That's not what I said: I said to shut up and let the closer do their job.
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have only one entry for "Ptolemy", and that is for the scholar. He is the
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comparison to Alexander the Great, who looms monumental in world history.
1506:-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
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as long the new title isn't "Claudius Ptolemy" but "Ptolemy (scholar)".
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How is he the only one? A whole bunch of others are listed right there.
2863:, since the names sits largely alongside great Greek leaders, including
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prefers the former. The scholar is by no means the clear and definitive
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987:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to
24:
2329:, and that's not even including the numerous Ptolemies outside of the
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Oppose both moves per the very compelling arguments of Walrasiad. --
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Which Ptolemy Gave Troops and Stood as Protector of Pyrrhus' Kingdom?
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exactly why "Ptolemy" is ambiguous and why it needs disambiguating.
959:
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1936:
Ptolemy "the Alexandrian", as depicted in a 16th-century engraving.
343:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
221:
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This is user talk page stuff - what's this performance in aid of?
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in any standard sense of the word. He was a Greek-speaking Roman.
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I found a few inscriptions referring to people with both names:
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I don't know how else to determine whether there's a consensus.
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have only one entry for "Ptolemy", and that is for the scholar.
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have ceased discussing the topic altogether in favour of pure
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Yes and what's your lack of civility in aid of? Please stop.
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Ptolemy "The Son" Reconsidered: Are There Too Many Ptolemies?
2122:, but given the clear ambiguity here, the case for rendering
5671:
Unknown-importance biography (science and academia) articles
2859:
And very ironically, the template may be meant to direct to
2579:. I do not think "Claudius" can be called his "first name".
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Since this RM, I've stumbled on Ptolemy in our articles on
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article irrespective of the lack of consensus for doing so.
4339:
How does your proposal help anybody or make it more useful?
864:. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our
2094:; this is one of the three other subjects named under the
474:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
1915:
geocentrism wasn't wrong about Earth being the center...
3148:
him (and very old translations), the last is from 1854!
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Your point here is all twisted around. I am not arguing
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If a Roman citizen, he would have had three names, the
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4559:'s section on science education in upper key stage 2:
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topics. Thus "Ptolemy (scholar)" is "Ptolemy" per our
2955:. Switching my earlier vote from weak to full oppose.
2916:, etc. are, but that is our Ptolemy alongside them.
2100:
heading from this page to the disambiguation page head
160:
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from other articles is markedly greater than that of
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even? But I still don't believe a move is necessary.
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to Ptolemy (scholar/astronomer/geographer/whatever),
4333:
them. I want Knowledge to be as useful as it can be.
2321:, but the title of another work puts it more aptly -
1807:
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
1784:
On 25 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be
3540:
and does not need disambiguation or a move to a non-
3423:
Knowledge talk:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
1619:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1395:
Geography articles with topics of unclear notability
1198:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
771:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
682:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
4792:, not scholar since there are others of that name (
4555:following is taken from the current version of the
1039:
2318:Ptolemy and His Rivals in His History of Alexander
5761:Top-importance Classical Greece and Rome articles
5666:B-Class biography (science and academia) articles
5427:Rules and guidelines do not need to be followed.
5374:), I will have to begin ignoring your replies.
5316:preserves the most recent prior stable title."
3969:I think you unmade your point when you made the
2184:just 'Ptolemy' is pretty unambiguously this guyâ
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
5766:All WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome pages
3805:; all of which use simply "Ptolemy", or sample
3662:rather than Gaius Octavian or Caesar Augustus,
2951:PPS - Our Ptolemy is the only "Ptolemy" in the
2120:"sufficient to identify a person unambiguously"
1500:, a project to improve Knowledge's articles on
874:Knowledge:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
4574:appropriate 'job title' to disambiguate with.
1880:of Ptolemy's anomaly that I did in Feb, 2016.
1353:Articles missing geocoordinate data by country
877:Template:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
5831:Mid-importance philosophy of science articles
5726:B-Class Astronomy articles of High-importance
3180:someone is obviously not a written reference
2517:sources (but not Greek sources). That said,
481:History of Science Collaboration of the Month
174:
8:
4732:, which support this Ptolemy as the PTOPIC.
2904:PS Reversed your edit. You may not know who
581:, which collaborates on articles related to
5706:High-importance history of science articles
3247:niche and unused "Claudius Ptolemy" named.
2205:the "Ptolemy was" test in GBooks resembles
5846:Mid-importance Ancient philosophy articles
5756:B-Class Classical Greece and Rome articles
5651:Knowledge level-4 vital articles in People
2005:The following is a closed discussion of a
1911:points are the center of the universe, so
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1267:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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911:
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5836:Philosophy of science task force articles
4462:I think you should perhaps actually read
2098:. This is also where most of the readers
1838:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment
1409:Knowledge requested photographs of places
466:, an attempt to improve and organize the
5676:Science and academia work group articles
3678:, and in accordance with the opening of
2742:I was doing your "Ptolemy was" test and
2281:continue to re-direct here regardless.
490:Knowledge:WikiProject History of Science
397:This article is listed on the project's
5711:WikiProject History of Science articles
5312:discussions end without consensus, the
5017:That is clearly not true, the articles
4978:if a move is required. Could one go to
3907:"Claudius Ptolemy", virtually unused. â
3302:The History of Ptolemy's Star Catalogue
1836:Above undated message substituted from
1567:
1446:
1339:Geographic related deletion discussions
1146:
913:
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493:Template:WikiProject History of Science
414:
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5851:Ancient philosophy task force articles
5826:B-Class philosophy of science articles
5498:'s significance within Knowledge with
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5253:No, if the evidence shows there is no
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4687:policy fits best, and Ptolemy is most
4614:), so I donât see whyâand thus (weak)
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3957:2601:447:C601:3690:118A:2F2D:143E:4BB2
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3658:rather than Quintus Horatius Flaccus,
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3208:2601:447:C601:3690:118A:2F2D:143E:4BB2
2983:No others called simply "Ptolemy", no.
2209:with the mathematician barely visible
2119:
2108:receive pretty neck-and-neck pageviews
2090:for this name. The main contestant is
1855:
997:about philosophy content on Knowledge.
5891:Low-importance Ancient Egypt articles
4651:is poor - it should be combined with
4282:Columbus's letter on the first voyage
2485:Other well-known astronomers such as
1670:WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:
1310:Unknown-importance geography articles
857:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome
7:
5816:Mid-importance epistemology articles
4238:, and hence we should disambiguate.
3654:rather than Publius Vergilius Maro,
2096:Collins dictionary entry for Ptolemy
2024:The result of the move request was:
1856:Was Ptolemy's geocentrism a blunder?
1613:This article is within the scope of
1492:This article is within the scope of
1367:Geography articles needing infoboxes
1325:Geography articles needing attention
1296:Tag related article talk pages with
1192:This article is within the scope of
981:This article is within the scope of
854:This article is within the scope of
765:This article is within the scope of
676:This article is within the scope of
575:This article is within the scope of
329:This article is within the scope of
5841:B-Class Ancient philosophy articles
5786:Mid-importance philosopher articles
5701:B-Class history of science articles
4980:Ptolemy (astronomer and geographer)
4659:on whether the scholar is moved to
3465:Knowledge:WikiProject Ancient Egypt
3176:The author field on a book written
3104:A written reference like the books
1896:just different frames of reference.
1633:Knowledge:WikiProject Ancient Egypt
380:the science and academia work group
23:for discussing improvements to the
5861:High-importance geography articles
5801:Mid-importance Aesthetics articles
5776:Mid-importance Philosophy articles
5736:High-priority mathematics articles
5721:High-importance Astronomy articles
5641:Knowledge vital articles in People
2072:â This page should move to either
1821:
1817:
1636:Template:WikiProject Ancient Egypt
880:Classical Greece and Rome articles
14:
5746:Top-importance astrology articles
5691:Top-importance biography articles
5681:B-Class biography (core) articles
4446:Geography (Ptolemy)#Image_Gallery
2136:a no-consensus discussion in 2006
1249:WikiProject Geography To-do list:
696:Knowledge:WikiProject Mathematics
5876:Low-importance Religion articles
5821:Epistemology task force articles
5791:Philosophers task force articles
5656:B-Class vital articles in People
5636:Knowledge level-4 vital articles
5594:The discussion above is closed.
4349:"Encyclopedia of Ancient Greece"
4092:"Encyclopedia of Ancient Greece"
1824:. Further details are available
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1284:Missing articles about Locations
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
4557:National Curriculum for England
3860:, the clearest title possible.
3124:this material on Google Scholar
1962:There is a footnote that reads
1653:This article has been rated as
1548:This article has been rated as
1232:This article has been rated as
1212:Knowledge:WikiProject Geography
1023:This article has been rated as
1006:Template:WikiProject Philosophy
894:This article has been rated as
805:This article has been rated as
785:Knowledge:WikiProject Astrology
716:This article has been rated as
611:This article has been rated as
591:Knowledge:WikiProject Astronomy
510:This article has been rated as
353:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
5886:B-Class Ancient Egypt articles
5866:WikiProject Geography articles
5806:Aesthetics task force articles
5751:WikiProject Astrology articles
5696:WikiProject Biography articles
5646:B-Class level-4 vital articles
5617:02:57, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
4097:Indeed, such is the case with
2721:possibly even strong support.
2669:kings of the Ptolemeic dynasty
2631:So lacking one element of the
1528:Knowledge:WikiProject Religion
1215:Template:WikiProject Geography
788:Template:WikiProject Astrology
594:Template:WikiProject Astronomy
478:. You can also help with the
463:History of Science WikiProject
356:Template:WikiProject Biography
265:It is of interest to multiple
1:
5881:WikiProject Religion articles
5811:B-Class epistemology articles
3807:Special:WhatLinksHere/Ptolemy
3587:The Last Days of Ptolemy Grey
3119:Claudius Ptolemy and the Nile
3113:Geography of Claudius Ptolemy
1925:07:42, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
1627:and see a list of open tasks.
1531:Template:WikiProject Religion
1306:Unassessed geography articles
1206:and see a list of open tasks.
779:and see a list of open tasks.
690:and see a list of open tasks.
377:This article is supported by
42:Put new text under old text.
5781:B-Class philosopher articles
5731:B-Class mathematics articles
4271:Geographic coordinate system
2130:in the first place is weak.
1850:07:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
460:This article is part of the
341:contribute to the discussion
5796:B-Class Aesthetics articles
5771:B-Class Philosophy articles
5122:Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung
5023:Wars of Alexander the Great
4762:Oppose to Claudius Ptoleomy
4370:And let me remind you what
4158:the (first-world) problem.
3461:Knowledge:WikiProject Egypt
3304:, Springer's edited volume
2156:Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung
2146:) 08:51, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2028:No consensus for the move.
1950:07:32, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
496:history of science articles
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
5907:
5856:B-Class geography articles
5741:B-Class astrology articles
5716:B-Class Astronomy articles
5661:B-Class biography articles
5372:.... I said to shut up....
4484:india extra gangem ptolemy
1998:Requested move 25 May 2023
1890:22:25, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
1871:19:37, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
1724:Standardize the Chronology
1659:project's importance scale
1554:project's importance scale
1238:project's importance scale
1029:project's importance scale
900:project's importance scale
811:project's importance scale
617:project's importance scale
516:project's importance scale
5871:B-Class Religion articles
5589:23:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
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5398:06:08, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
5384:04:55, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
5353:04:17, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
3880:Support Ptolemy (scholar)
3858:Support Ptolemy (scholar)
2312:From Amyrtaeus to Ptolemy
2277:But the simple "Ptolemy"
2045:05:41, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
1931:Ptolemy "the Alexandrian"
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455:History of science portal
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80:Be welcoming to newcomers
5596:Please do not modify it.
5571:21:58, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
5555:weak support as proposed
5519:19:21, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
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5339:21:04, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
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5141:22:12, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
5112:07:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
5090:08:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
5059:'round here. Agree that
5057:assumption of good faith
5035:08:03, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
5013:06:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
4992:03:13, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
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4649:Ptolemy (disambiguation)
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3791:Copernican heliocentrism
3741:22:25, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
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3355:12:56, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
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3194:18:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
3172:18:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
3158:17:44, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
3144:The first two are books
3140:14:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
3100:12:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
3074:10:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
3029:10:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
3007:09:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2979:08:34, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2965:08:02, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2953:List of ancient Greeks#P
2945:08:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2926:07:46, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2893:07:18, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2855:07:03, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2836:02:27, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
2817:10:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
2803:09:18, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
2791:Ptolemy (music theorist)
2756:20:16, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2738:19:09, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2712:05:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2682:21:37, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2646:17:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
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2462:11:16, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2447:09:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2428:06:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2416:almost perfectly matched
2410:03:20, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2395:20:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2373:20:02, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2350:17:49, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
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2250:15:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
2241:15:10, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
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2211:19:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
2189:14:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2175:22:12, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
2063:Ptolemy (disambiguation)
2012:Please do not modify it.
1990:03:28, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
1976:02:07, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
1518:standards, or visit the
1381:Knowledge requested maps
1346:Geographical coordinates
722:project's priority scale
5686:Core biography articles
4790:Ptolemy (mathematician)
4374:means: by both criteria
3862:Oppose Claudius Ptolemy
3128:page 100 of the results
3122:, or just about any of
2727:Ptolemy (mathematician)
2700:argument from authority
2106:, the king and scholar
1040:Associated task forces:
679:WikiProject Mathematics
5631:B-Class vital articles
5361:, as you also were at
5357:If you continue to be
4633:Support disambiguation
3306:Ptolemy in Perspective
2559:first name - last name
1980:Agreed - much better.
1958:
1639:Ancient Egypt articles
1125:
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984:WikiProject Philosophy
393:
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75:avoid personal attacks
4970:I tend to agree that
4667:; either would work.
4641:Alexander's conquests
4294:Copernican Revolution
3787:Copernican Revolution
3366:~~ AirshipJungleman29
3327:trends are going in.
3308:or Jacqueline Feke's
1957:
1828:. Student editor(s):
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252:level-4 vital article
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100:Neutral point of view
5507:(1,257 direct links)
5363:Talk:Ptolemy I Soter
4972:Ptolemy (astronomer)
4870:Ptolemy (astronomer)
4833:Ptolemy (astronomer)
4785:Ptolemy (astronomer)
4005:history of astronomy
3799:Christopher Columbus
3310:Ptolemy's Philosophy
2787:Ptolemy (geographer)
2783:Ptolemy (astrologer)
2779:Ptolemy (astronomer)
2333:that can be seen at
2037:Captain Jack Sparrow
1608:Ancient Egypt portal
1496:WikiProject Religion
702:mathematics articles
291:Science and Academia
105:No original research
5429:They can be ignored
5019:Alexander the Great
4730:here are the Ngrams
4618:âwe would do that.
4050:The Discarded Image
3839:name. (But perhaps
3783:Nicolaus Copernicus
3763:Ptolemy's world map
3300:, Gerd Grasshoff's
2865:Alexander the Great
2307:Harrassowitz Verlag
1009:Philosophy articles
5500:3,087 direct links
4693:WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT
3803:Physical geography
3492:Disambiguation to
3298:Overcoming Ptolemy
2899:you just edited it
2725:does not refer to
2487:Nicolas Copernicus
1959:
1942:Valgrus Thunderaxe
1826:on the course page
1508:assess and improve
1218:geography articles
1130:Ancient philosophy
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791:astrology articles
671:Mathematics portal
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487:History of Science
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424:History of Science
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359:biography articles
261:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
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3126:(continuing past
3088:Ptolemaic dynasty
3058:Ptolemaic dynasty
3017:Ptolemaic Kingdom
2873:Pyrrhus of Epirus
2869:Philip of Macedon
2775:Ptolemy (scholar)
2331:Ptolemaic dynasty
2327:Ptolemy XV Caesar
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5842:
5839:
5837:
5834:
5832:
5829:
5827:
5824:
5822:
5819:
5817:
5814:
5812:
5809:
5807:
5804:
5802:
5799:
5797:
5794:
5792:
5789:
5787:
5784:
5782:
5779:
5777:
5774:
5772:
5769:
5767:
5764:
5762:
5759:
5757:
5754:
5752:
5749:
5747:
5744:
5742:
5739:
5737:
5734:
5732:
5729:
5727:
5724:
5722:
5719:
5717:
5714:
5712:
5709:
5707:
5704:
5702:
5699:
5697:
5694:
5692:
5689:
5687:
5684:
5682:
5679:
5677:
5674:
5672:
5669:
5667:
5664:
5662:
5659:
5657:
5654:
5652:
5649:
5647:
5644:
5642:
5639:
5637:
5634:
5632:
5629:
5628:
5626:
5619:
5618:
5614:
5610:
5602:
5597:
5590:
5586:
5582:
5577:
5574:
5572:
5569:
5568:
5562:
5556:
5552:
5551:
5546:
5542:
5538:
5534:
5530:
5526:
5522:
5521:
5520:
5516:
5512:
5508:
5505:
5501:
5497:
5493:
5490:
5488:
5484:
5480:
5476:
5473:
5472:
5465:
5461:
5457:
5452:
5442:
5438:
5434:
5430:
5426:
5412:
5406:
5401:
5400:
5399:
5395:
5391:
5387:
5386:
5385:
5381:
5377:
5373:
5371:
5364:
5360:
5356:
5355:
5354:
5350:
5346:
5342:
5341:
5340:
5336:
5332:
5327:
5325:
5322:
5319:
5315:
5311:
5310:article title
5307:
5303:
5302:
5301:
5297:
5293:
5289:
5288:
5287:
5283:
5279:
5275:
5270:
5269:
5268:
5264:
5260:
5256:
5252:
5251:
5250:
5246:
5242:
5237:
5236:
5235:
5231:
5227:
5223:
5219:
5216:
5215:
5214:
5210:
5206:
5201:
5197:
5193:
5192:
5191:
5190:
5189:
5188:
5183:
5179:
5175:
5171:
5167:
5164:
5163:
5162:
5158:
5154:
5150:
5147:
5146:
5142:
5138:
5134:
5133:
5129:
5128:
5123:
5119:
5115:
5113:
5109:
5105:
5102:Unnecessary.
5101:
5098:
5091:
5087:
5085:
5079:
5078:
5077:
5070:
5066:
5063:is the PTOPIC
5062:
5058:
5054:
5050:
5046:
5045:
5044:
5043:
5042:
5041:
5036:
5032:
5028:
5024:
5020:
5016:
5015:
5014:
5010:
5006:
5002:
4999:
4993:
4989:
4985:
4981:
4977:
4973:
4969:
4968:
4967:
4966:
4965:
4964:
4957:
4953:
4949:
4944:
4943:
4942:
4941:
4940:
4939:
4934:
4930:
4926:
4922:
4918:
4914:
4910:
4906:
4902:
4898:
4894:
4890:
4889:
4888:
4884:
4880:
4879:Michael Hardy
4875:
4871:
4867:
4864:
4860:
4856:
4852:
4848:
4847:
4846:
4842:
4838:
4834:
4830:
4827:
4825:
4821:
4817:
4813:
4811:
4807:
4803:
4799:
4795:
4791:
4787:
4786:
4781:
4779:
4775:
4771:
4767:
4766:WP:COMMONNAME
4763:
4760:
4759:
4753:
4749:
4747:
4741:
4740:
4739:
4731:
4728:
4725:
4724:
4723:
4722:
4718:
4714:
4712:
4706:
4705:
4704:
4697:
4694:
4690:
4686:
4682:
4679:
4677:
4674:
4672:
4671:
4670:Modest Genius
4666:
4662:
4658:
4654:
4650:
4646:
4642:
4638:
4634:
4631:
4629:
4625:
4621:
4617:
4613:
4610:
4606:
4603:
4599:
4595:
4592:
4590:
4587:
4582:
4572:
4567:
4563:
4558:
4553:
4552:Strong oppose
4549:
4546:
4516:
4512:
4508:
4504:
4503:
4502:
4498:
4494:
4491:
4489:
4485:
4481:
4477:
4473:
4469:
4465:
4461:
4460:
4459:
4455:
4451:
4447:
4443:
4442:
4441:
4437:
4433:
4428:
4427:
4426:
4422:
4418:
4414:
4413:
4412:
4408:
4404:
4399:
4398:
4397:
4393:
4389:
4386:
4383:
4379:
4376:
4373:
4369:
4367:
4363:
4359:
4354:
4350:
4346:
4341:
4338:
4335:
4331:
4327:
4323:
4319:
4316:
4311:
4307:
4303:
4300:
4295:
4291:
4288:
4283:
4279:
4276:
4272:
4268:
4265:
4260:
4259:Constellation
4256:
4255:
4253:
4252:
4251:
4250:
4249:
4245:
4241:
4237:
4232:
4231:
4230:
4226:
4222:
4217:
4212:
4208:
4202:
4198:
4194:
4189:
4188:
4187:
4184:
4181:
4177:
4173:
4172:
4171:
4170:
4169:
4165:
4161:
4156:
4152:
4151:
4150:
4147:
4144:
4140:
4139:
4138:
4134:
4130:
4125:
4124:
4123:
4119:
4115:
4111:
4107:
4104:
4100:
4096:
4093:
4089:
4084:
4080:
4079:
4078:
4074:
4070:
4065:
4064:
4063:
4059:
4055:
4054:Michael Hardy
4051:
4046:
4043:
4042:
4033:
4029:
4025:
4020:
4019:
4018:
4014:
4010:
4006:
4002:
3998:
3994:
3990:
3986:
3985:
3984:
3980:
3976:
3972:
3968:
3967:
3966:
3962:
3958:
3954:
3953:
3952:
3951:
3948:
3944:
3940:
3935:
3932:
3930:
3927:
3923:
3920:
3918:
3914:
3910:
3906:
3905:Strong oppose
3902:
3898:
3895:
3893:
3889:
3885:
3881:
3878:
3876:
3873:
3870:
3863:
3859:
3856:
3854:
3850:
3846:
3845:Michael Hardy
3842:
3837:
3835:
3832:
3829:
3825:
3822:
3820:
3816:
3812:
3808:
3804:
3800:
3796:
3792:
3788:
3784:
3780:
3776:
3772:
3768:
3764:
3759:
3758:WP:COMMONNAME
3755:
3752:
3751:
3742:
3738:
3734:
3729:
3725:
3724:
3723:
3722:
3721:
3720:
3719:
3718:
3708:
3702:
3698:
3697:
3696:
3692:
3688:
3685:
3681:
3680:WP:SINGLENAME
3677:
3673:
3669:
3665:
3661:
3657:
3653:
3649:
3648:
3647:
3643:
3639:
3635:
3631:
3630:WP:SINGLENAME
3627:
3623:
3622:
3621:
3617:
3613:
3609:
3606:
3600:
3596:
3592:
3588:
3583:
3582:
3581:
3577:
3573:
3569:
3565:
3564:"Ptolemy was"
3561:
3557:
3556:
3555:
3551:
3547:
3543:
3542:WP:COMMONNAME
3539:
3535:
3532:
3531:
3526:
3522:
3518:
3517:Michael Hardy
3514:
3513:
3512:
3511:
3508:
3504:
3500:
3495:
3491:
3488:
3487:
3478:
3474:
3470:
3466:
3462:
3458:
3457:
3456:
3452:
3448:
3444:
3443:
3442:
3441:
3440:
3439:
3436:
3432:
3428:
3424:
3419:
3416:
3412:
3408:
3404:
3403:64.229.90.172
3401:webpages. --
3399:
3394:
3393:
3392:
3388:
3384:
3380:
3377:
3375:
3371:
3367:
3363:
3360:
3356:
3352:
3348:
3344:
3340:
3338:
3334:
3330:
3325:
3324:
3323:
3319:
3315:
3311:
3307:
3303:
3299:
3294:
3290:
3286:
3283:
3281:
3277:
3273:
3272:64.229.90.172
3269:
3266:
3264:
3261:
3259:
3254:
3246:
3242:
3239:
3238:
3231:
3227:
3223:
3219:
3218:
3217:
3213:
3209:
3205:
3195:
3191:
3187:
3183:
3179:
3175:
3174:
3173:
3169:
3165:
3161:
3160:
3159:
3155:
3151:
3147:
3143:
3142:
3141:
3137:
3133:
3129:
3125:
3121:
3120:
3115:
3114:
3109:
3108:
3103:
3102:
3101:
3097:
3093:
3089:
3085:
3082:But have you
3081:
3080:
3079:
3078:
3075:
3071:
3067:
3063:
3059:
3055:
3052:
3051:
3030:
3026:
3022:
3018:
3014:
3010:
3009:
3008:
3004:
3000:
2996:
2992:
2989:
2985:
2982:
2981:
2980:
2976:
2972:
2968:
2967:
2966:
2962:
2958:
2954:
2950:
2946:
2942:
2938:
2934:
2933:Ancient Greek
2929:
2928:
2927:
2923:
2919:
2915:
2911:
2907:
2903:
2900:
2896:
2895:
2894:
2890:
2886:
2882:
2878:
2877:Thermistocles
2874:
2870:
2866:
2862:
2858:
2857:
2856:
2852:
2848:
2844:
2839:
2838:
2837:
2833:
2829:
2824:
2820:
2819:
2818:
2814:
2810:
2806:
2805:
2804:
2800:
2796:
2795:In ictu oculi
2792:
2788:
2784:
2780:
2776:
2770:
2765:
2764:
2763:
2762:
2757:
2753:
2749:
2745:
2741:
2740:
2739:
2735:
2731:
2730:In ictu oculi
2728:
2724:
2720:
2717:
2713:
2709:
2705:
2701:
2697:
2693:
2689:
2685:
2684:
2683:
2679:
2675:
2670:
2666:
2665:WP:COMMONNAME
2662:
2661:Strong Oppose
2659:
2658:
2647:
2643:
2639:
2634:
2630:
2626:
2623:
2620:
2619:
2614:
2611:
2610:
2605:
2602:
2601:
2596:
2592:
2591:
2590:
2586:
2582:
2578:
2574:
2573:
2572:
2568:
2564:
2560:
2555:
2554:
2553:
2549:
2545:
2541:
2540:WP:COMMONNAME
2538:
2536:
2532:
2528:
2524:
2520:
2515:
2514:
2513:
2512:
2509:
2505:
2501:
2496:
2492:
2488:
2484:
2481:
2480:
2463:
2459:
2455:
2450:
2449:
2448:
2444:
2440:
2435:
2431:
2430:
2429:
2425:
2421:
2417:
2413:
2412:
2411:
2407:
2403:
2398:
2397:
2396:
2392:
2388:
2384:
2380:
2376:
2375:
2374:
2370:
2366:
2361:
2360:
2359:
2358:
2357:
2356:
2351:
2347:
2343:
2340:
2336:
2332:
2328:
2324:
2320:
2319:
2314:
2313:
2308:
2304:
2303:
2298:
2294:
2293:
2292:
2288:
2284:
2280:
2276:
2271:
2268:
2267:
2263:
2262:
2251:
2248:
2244:
2243:
2242:
2239:
2235:
2232:
2229:
2228:
2227:
2223:
2219:
2215:
2214:
2212:
2208:
2202:
2196:
2195:
2194:
2193:
2190:
2187:
2183:
2180:
2179:
2178:
2176:
2172:
2168:
2167:
2163:
2162:
2157:
2153:
2152:
2145:
2141:
2137:
2133:
2129:
2125:
2121:
2117:
2116:WP:SINGLENAME
2113:
2109:
2105:
2101:
2097:
2093:
2089:
2085:
2081:
2077:
2076:
2068:
2064:
2061:
2058:
2053:
2050:
2049:
2047:
2046:
2042:
2038:
2033:
2027:
2026:no consensus.
2020:
2018:
2013:
2008:
2003:
2002:
1997:
1991:
1987:
1983:
1979:
1978:
1977:
1973:
1969:
1961:
1960:
1956:
1952:
1951:
1947:
1943:
1938:
1937:
1930:
1926:
1922:
1918:
1914:
1910:
1906:
1902:
1898:
1894:
1891:
1887:
1883:
1879:
1875:
1874:
1873:
1872:
1868:
1864:
1853:
1851:
1847:
1843:
1839:
1833:
1831:
1827:
1814:
1806:
1799:
1795:
1791:
1787:
1783:
1776:
1775:
1772:
1754:
1747:
1744:
1743:
1742:
1737:
1734:
1733:
1732:
1725:
1722:
1721:
1720:
1714:
1711:
1710:
1709:
1703:
1700:
1699:
1695:
1692:
1690:
1687:
1685:
1682:
1680:
1677:
1676:
1674:
1673:
1669:
1668:
1664:
1660:
1656:
1650:
1647:
1646:
1643:
1630:Ancient Egypt
1626:
1622:
1621:Egyptological
1618:
1617:
1609:
1598:
1596:
1593:
1589:
1588:
1584:
1578:
1577:Ancient Egypt
1575:
1572:
1568:
1555:
1551:
1545:
1542:
1541:
1538:
1521:
1517:
1513:
1509:
1505:
1504:
1499:
1498:
1497:
1488:
1482:
1477:
1475:
1472:
1468:
1467:
1463:
1457:
1454:
1451:
1447:
1424:
1420:
1418:
1417:
1412:
1410:
1406:
1404:
1403:
1398:
1396:
1392:
1390:
1389:
1384:
1382:
1378:
1376:
1375:
1370:
1368:
1364:
1362:
1361:
1356:
1354:
1350:
1348:
1347:
1342:
1340:
1336:
1334:
1333:
1328:
1326:
1322:
1320:
1319:
1314:
1311:
1307:
1301:
1295:
1293:
1292:
1287:
1285:
1281:
1277:
1275:
1274:
1269:
1268:
1265:
1261:
1257:
1256:
1253:
1252:
1248:
1247:
1243:
1239:
1235:
1229:
1226:
1225:
1222:
1205:
1201:
1197:
1196:
1188:
1177:
1175:
1172:
1168:
1167:
1163:
1157:
1154:
1151:
1147:
1131:
1123:
1119:
1118:
1115:
1107:
1103:
1102:
1099:
1091:
1087:
1086:
1083:
1075:
1071:
1070:
1067:
1059:
1055:
1054:
1051:
1049:
1044:
1043:
1038:
1034:
1030:
1026:
1020:
1017:
1016:
1013:
996:
995:
990:
986:
985:
977:
966:
964:
961:
957:
956:
952:
945:
941:
937:
933:
929:
924:
921:
918:
914:
901:
897:
891:
888:
887:
884:
867:
863:
859:
858:
853:
850:
846:
845:
841:
835:
832:
829:
825:
812:
808:
802:
799:
798:
795:
778:
774:
770:
769:
764:
761:
757:
756:
752:
746:
743:
740:
736:
723:
719:
718:High-priority
713:
710:
709:
706:
689:
685:
681:
680:
672:
666:
661:
659:
656:
652:
651:
647:
643:Highâpriority
641:
638:
635:
631:
618:
614:
608:
605:
604:
601:
585:on Knowledge.
584:
580:
579:
571:
560:
558:
555:
551:
550:
546:
540:
537:
534:
530:
517:
513:
507:
504:
503:
500:
483:
482:
477:
473:
469:
465:
464:
456:
445:
443:
440:
436:
435:
431:
425:
422:
419:
415:
402:
401:
391:
387:
386:
382:
381:
371:
367:
366:
363:
346:
345:documentation
342:
338:
334:
333:
325:
314:
312:
309:
305:
304:
300:
296:
292:
287:
284:
281:
277:
272:
268:
262:
254:
253:
243:
239:
234:
233:
214:
213:
208:
204:
196:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
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19:This is the
5405:Iskandar323
5390:Iskandar323
5345:Iskandar323
5318:Paul August
5292:Iskandar323
4620:CielProfond
4607:or Ptolemy
4562:Copernicus.
4548:Weak oppose
4507:Iskandar323
4468:Iskandar323
4432:Iskandar323
4403:Iskandar323
4240:Iskandar323
4193:Iskandar323
4180:Paul August
4160:Iskandar323
4143:Paul August
4129:Iskandar323
4069:Iskandar323
3975:Iskandar323
3971:ad absurdum
3828:Paul August
3779:Renaissance
3638:Iskandar323
3572:Iskandar323
3347:Iskandar323
3329:Iskandar323
3222:Iskandar323
3164:Iskandar323
3132:Iskandar323
3090:I suppose.
3021:Iskandar323
2971:Iskandar323
2937:Iskandar323
2885:Iskandar323
2847:Iskandar323
2823:5,000 links
2809:Iskandar323
2748:Iskandar323
2704:Iskandar323
2690:: Hmm. Are
2633:tria nomina
2577:tria nomina
2563:Iskandar323
2491:Tycho Brahe
2454:Iskandar323
2420:Iskandar323
2387:Iskandar323
2342:Iskandar323
2266:Weak Oppose
2213:(unsigned)
2140:Iskandar323
2104:Objectively
2017:move review
1913:technically
693:Mathematics
684:mathematics
640:Mathematics
148:free images
31:not a forum
5625:Categories
5581:XOR'easter
5479:Randy Kryn
5376:P Aculeius
5370:ad hominem
5359:WP:UNCIVIL
5331:P Aculeius
5278:P Aculeius
5241:P Aculeius
5205:P Aculeius
5153:P Aculeius
4905:Thucydides
4685:COMMONNAME
4345:Britannica
4321:"Ptolemy".
4110:additional
4088:Britannica
4024:P Aculeius
3989:P Aculeius
3775:Astrometry
3767:Flat Earth
3733:P Aculeius
3672:Archimedes
3612:P Aculeius
3013:discussion
2997:this RM.
2914:Hipparchus
2910:Archimedes
2638:P Aculeius
2519:Copernicus
2433:perchance?
2151:Relisting.
2134:There was
1892:Jbergquist
1882:Jbergquist
1863:Jbergquist
1388:Notability
1337:Listed at
1082:Aesthetics
1000:Philosophy
989:philosophy
932:Aesthetics
923:Philosophy
476:discussion
5557:as well.
5255:WP:PTOPIC
5222:WP:PTOPIC
5053:Ptolemy I
4948:Walrasiad
4901:Herodotus
4897:Sophocles
4612:Euergetes
4585:(blether)
4450:Walrasiad
4417:Walrasiad
4388:Walrasiad
4358:Walrasiad
4264:Almagest.
4221:Walrasiad
4114:Walrasiad
3901:Cleopatra
3701:WP:ROMANS
3668:Vitruvius
3427:Walrasiad
2999:Walrasiad
2957:Walrasiad
2918:Walrasiad
2843:Acropolis
2828:Walrasiad
2769:Walrasiad
2744:this work
2622:XIV, 4569
2613:VI, 20587
2527:Walrasiad
2500:AstroLynx
2439:Walrasiad
2402:Walrasiad
2365:Walrasiad
2297:Routledge
2283:Walrasiad
2247:blindlynx
2238:blindlynx
2207:pageviews
2201:Blindlynx
2186:blindlynx
2138:on this.
2082:, though
1876:Here's a
1830:HHarr8001
1209:Geography
1200:geography
1156:Geography
866:talk page
782:Astrology
773:Astrology
745:Astrology
588:Astronomy
583:Astronomy
539:Astronomy
350:Biography
286:Biography
255:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
5308:: "When
5104:Vic Park
5051:or just
5005:Ortizesp
4925:Dimadick
4909:Xenophon
4868:I think
4866:Comment.
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4643:and the
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3660:Augustus
3626:WP:NCBIO
3066:Dimadick
3062:Don Rosa
2988:new edit
2897:Because
2881:Leonidas
2604:VI, 9416
2126:as just
2084:WP:NCDAB
1917:Skintigh
1842:PrimeBOT
1525:Religion
1503:Religion
1456:Religion
203:365Â days
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
5525:Kashgar
5496:Ptolemy
5492:Comment
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5061:Ptolemy
4984:Johnbod
4851:Johnbod
4829:Support
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4681:Oppose.
4657:neutral
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3054:Support
2719:Support
2688:Johnbod
2674:Johnbod
2544:Johnbod
2483:Support
2218:Johnbod
2128:Ptolemy
2067:Ptolemy
2052:Ptolemy
1982:Johnbod
1713:Cleanup
1684:history
1657:on the
1552:on the
1360:Infobox
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1236:on the
1027:on the
944:Ancient
940:Science
898:on the
809:on the
720:on the
615:on the
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154:WPÂ refs
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4655:. I'm
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3897:Oppose
3872:(talk)
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3379:oppose
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3257:(talk)
3245:oppose
2906:Euclid
2696:WP:NPA
2692:WP:AGF
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2182:oppose
1291:Assess
263:scale.
126:Google
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5433:Srnec
5127:mello
4913:Plato
4893:Homer
4727:Note:
4605:Soter
4577:Girth
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3884:Ifly6
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3793:etc;
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3314:Srnec
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2299:work
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1968:Srnec
1786:moved
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403:page.
244:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
5613:talk
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5527:and
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