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sell VCDs at shows, but not with any great success. It was financed, as referenced in the VV source, mainly by an inheritance, and subsidized by
Wwwhatsup, a blog started in 94 which operated the pinstand, which was actually quite successful in the latter 90s, as there was not much competition for punk merch. on the net. Around 2005 MacFie became more active in Internet advocacy, shooting more tech-related events, and also some book readings - but still on pretty much the same basis. If you look at the site you can see the transition occurring, including pioneering webcasts of NYC City Council Internet-related hearings. Hence the second VV Best of. There was a period when that stuff had to go on the punkcast YouTube channel because it was grandfathered to have no time limit, but recently as YouTube have lifted that limitation, most of the tech work appears on other channels. He also now runs webcasting for the global
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permission statement in the opening para, it's not strictly true. Punkcast's rep on the NYC scene was such that many bands were very welcoming, and permission was asked of many others. Any band could make their preferences known, and responded to, as exemplified by the Yeah Yeah Yeahs in the VV story. The point of the Hell incident was that, after permission had been given to shoot, Hell later had a change of heart, and instead of asking for the clip, which was linked on his website, to be taken down, served a DMCA notice, taking down the whole channel. Talk about the Blank
Generation. But it was nevertheless a minor incident. Similarly the disks sales were so minimal as to be non-notable.
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verification. But to put it again bluntly, in a time when there was no other such existed on the
Internet punkcast, with a DIY approach rooted in the punk tradition of P2P culture like fanzines, was posting up video of the NYC underground music scene. And of such quality that the City of New York later built a new municipal music tv show on top of it's catalog. That's all in the VV source with perhaps a little background in Internet History required to comprehend context.
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an ad which is why it almost got deleted the first time. This is the only recent source that is not a list and gives more than a small mention of
Punkcast. I don't think Hell would mind copying a public post he made I think he would appreciate it. He did not want his private communications made public. Do you know of other sources that talk about that part of punkcast, I think it would help the article. Thank you,
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272:, a new weekly program on basic cable available in all five boroughs, draws its riches. The show focuses predominantly on New York bands, and on November 1 the program will air exclusive video footage of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs ("Yeah! New York" and "Kiss Kiss"), Ari-Up and the New Crew ("Don't Say Nothing"), and Oneida ("Privilege"), among others.'
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The main point is that the media pressure reflected
Punkcast's role as a public resource at the time, hopefully an indicator of the challenged notability. I further would say that quoting Hell in Knowledge (XXG), when he is actually protesting being quoted at all - which is what the whole issue was about - is compounding the injury.
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Those are guidelines, mainly aimed at SPA's who just post on WP for promotion. In contrast to an experienced editor who works to document article subjects. If I could post videos to commons I would, however it's not always possible to get open licences on the music. When I can, such as spoken word, I
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I saw a physical copy of that issue of Wired. I could not find what you were talking about until I noticed a photo next to the
Punkcast text that has a red caption "MUST SEE!". I do not know if they mean Punkcast is a must see or if that video the picture is from is a must see or if the video is from
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and although it doesn't say it there, the others were all recent new podcast sites, while
Punkcast had been going 7 years by that time, and so had a much wider catalog. Incidentally if you haven't checked the print edition of Wired that is referenced, maybe you should take down that tag until you do.
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as applied to music video. I think the notability to some extent ends there, the Hell incident notwithstanding, as after that there were many others. As to your question of business model, punkcast was never commercial. It was the equivalent of an online fanzine. There was some effort to get bands to
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As a declared conflicted user I will henceforth restrict myself to making suggestions, unless there is a lack of willing editors and the article gets vandalized or such. I do suggest that the significance and notability of punkcast is mostly as a website that pioneered presenting user-generated music
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I wanted to make the quotes shorter but could not see how to do it and keep both sides of the position there. I think it's an imporant issue and it is worth listing, also a wikipedia article must present both sides. It was a very one-sided article before. You did not put lots of praise in but you put
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it says "It is obvious that a link from
Knowledge (XXG) to an external site may drive Web traffic to that site. But in line with Knowledge (XXG) policies, you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent—even if Knowledge (XXG) guidelines seem to imply that it may otherwise be
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I am not going to revert you, but you are wrong. The source is a printed edition of Wired. Just because you don't have a copy is no reason to remove the info. If you had a copy and it didn';t say that then you could. I am waiting for you to finish with your improvements and then I am going to put up
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I'm not sure the quotes are needed at all. I prefer my original edit with just the basic facts. Anyone interested in detail can go to the source. The underlying truth of the story is that Hell's top down and MacFie's bottom up approaches were at odds, but I don't think that's necessary to flesh out.
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I don't think that the information in the article would need to change at all. Much of the "History" section is already about MacFie, for instance many of the awards listed there were presented to him and not the website. I don't see that that section would need any editing in the event of a rename.
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I'm not totally averse but my feeling is that someone wanting to learn about
Punkcast will not be interested in MacFie's life story, but just the history of the site. The reason the opening para does mention biographical details is merely to place it in the tradition of punk underground media. Could
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I'm a regular volunteer at the Third
Opinion project. Your request for an opinion has been removed because that project requires thorough recent talk page discussion which has reached a stalemate. Please discuss the issue with the other editor here on the article talk page. If that discussion comes
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The reference is to an online page not a print one. It should be a different kind of reference if it is to a print source. I am just trying to help clean up the page because a lot of the article made claims that are not support by the references. I have done enough for now so please make the RFC to
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I've removed the podcasting project tag on this page, as the punkcast podcast hasn't been updated in some time. What's not said in the article is that, after the advent of YouTube, the site has been pretty much neglected. The associated YouTube channel meanwhile has 1500 videos, 2k subscribers, and
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Your original edit made it look like Hell was the only one to blame, which is a one sided way to say it. The sources are not here to show notability of the company but to give information about the company. The information can show it's notable but if you just put the good things then it reads like
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Article says "the much of" - typo? - should be changed to just "much of". and then "the programming from 2003-2004". The VV story is 2003 as it was getting going. Hence the word "nascent". Shirley Braha mentions 5 videos she went for right away. In 2004 she graduated from Smith and started working
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The article only says that punkcast was there at that time and maybe you could see that it says that people watched it but that is mostly a MacFie quote talking about how he see something as confirmation. I do not see any comparison to other sites, I do not see anything mention if there were other
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I'd say all that was fairly verifiable. The site is still up. You can go to the Internet Archive to check that it was then as now. And, I beleive, you are beginning to get the point. Sure anyone can shoot and post video now, but in those days it was a different matter. This, I think, does not need
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The reason is as mentioned in the AFD that the sources were primarily about MacFie. The article survived AFD barely (largely due to a last-minute intervention by Sandstein), and do-overs on AFD are not all that uncommon, especially for "no consensus" results. If the subject is clearly the primary
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I did say that The Gossip would be difficult to source but then again if you look at the date of the video, and the timeline of the band's career, it's fairly self evident. 500k was a lot of views for an unsigned indie band in 2006! Similarly with the other bands I mention above. As for your
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I see. Originally your text states that it was the "majority of programming" for the series. I changed to "some". However the article only talks about 3 videos. Aksi, it looks like punkcast was not featured after the 10th episode (2004) out of 89 episodes (2009) according to these official
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for photos and they are listed with "No Derivative Works" protection. Am I seeing right that these can not be used for photos on wikipedia because it requires "derivative works"? Or am I confused because having this protection looks stronger than what MacFie asks from the bands? Thank you,
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Correct, further permission is required to use images on Knowledge (XXG). In the case of the videos, the No-Deriv is essentially to stop people republishing the audio, but it does affect framegrabs too. Generally if permission is requested, it is given. Some of the tech stuff, notably
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underground music scene. Since its founding in 1997, PunkCast has broadcast more than 1000 shows online and formerly on cable TV. The content is mainly complete songs from live performances in the city's clubs and other locations. The site occasionally covers other local community
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When I saw the article the first time it sounded like bragging. Any person with a camera can film those bands if they are in the audience so do you think it adds to the article? The other things you say, if they get lots of views or mentioned like
1257:. Question is, how much material to keep in regarding this dispute? With the material removed, it seems like Richard Hell was the unreasonable one, but if his quote is included, he seems very reasonable. Thoughts are appreciated, thank you.
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If you investigate further that claim you'll find that band was bunch of techies working across the MBONE and had virtually no viewers. There was no consumer level streaming video on the World Wide Web until the introduction of
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nothing negative. Even if Richard Hell is wrong it is important to put it there, I believe so. If you can see how to shorten it that could help, I am following advice and trying to build up this article. Thank you,
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But that is what I am saying, it does not say it there. So I feel we cannot put this original research in the article, correct? And do any of the other music sites listed have wikipedia articles? Thank you,
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If punkcast was really pioneering that would be nice to have, in what ways was it pioneering? Do you have sources that show punkcast was unique and influential on what is more common now? Thank you,
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Generally it's acceptable to list a few notable examples in running prose. Long and comprehensive lists are generally banned to pages of their own. I wouldn't say that such is merited here.
295:. Do you have any evidence that says something else? The article linked is pretty old. I am guess you would know since you are the one who put that claim in, what is it based on? Thank you,
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Downloadable and streaming are different things, yes? There was much downloadable video in the 1990s, on official band sites. I am confused are you making a different claim now? Thank you,
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sites or not. I do not see anything that says it was first or that it influenced anything else. Can you quote where it says these things? Trying to follow no original research. Thank you,
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I see the ref has been tagged 'not in citation given', however the citation is in fact to the print edition (p. 131) where the quote does occur. There's a chance I can dig up a scan.
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The Wired 'Guide to the Online Video Explosion "was a round up of notable video websites at the time (2006), Punkcast was one of only four music sites that had live video.
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They do not seem to be in an article so I do not think so, yes? Maybe you should get another experience user to help. One you do not know already? Thank you,
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Punkcast or something else. The original text you have says it was "called a must-see" which is not the same thing. I do not know what to do. Thank you,
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Maybe you would like another user more experienced than you to agree because it does not seem true to me? You do not want to get in trouble. Thank you,
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you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent—even if Knowledge (XXG) guidelines seem to imply that it may otherwise be linked
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video content on the Internet in the period 97-2005, when there was no YouTube etc. Although in the early days it did to some people, represent the
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What I am saying is that it does need verification. If you think or know it is true and even if I do it is not enough for wikipedia. Thank you,
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There is no discussion of how this company supports itself or what it charges. I tried to add some from sources but needs more. Thank you,
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focus instead of something just mentioned in the cited sources, it is much easier for you to make a case for keeping the article.
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I see you are right I was not reading it correctly. I will fix the text a little and put in the other source. Thank you,
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733:", especially in Europe, but good luck finding sources on that. It was also the first Punkcast video on YouTube
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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the site in question. The point of references is so that readers may verify the the referenced imformation.
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While this is notable enough to bear a mention, I beleive the inclusion of the quotes is uneccesary cruft.
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During the AFD it was pointed out that many of the cited sources are really more about the site's founder,
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that is different. I will not remove it just a suggestion, want to hear what you think, thank you,
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says the first band broadcast was in 1993. What is special about punkcast in this way? Thank you,
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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are all examples of successful acts where Punkcast provided early exposure. A later success was
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To reflect the title, the lead paragraph would be slightly altered into something like
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Can we get any of this at all without doing original research or from primary source?
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that I found because you linked there. Sorry I did not explain it well. Thank you,
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Oh those. Punkcast was the official Moldy Peaches video website in that period.
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Also is it best to describe as a "site" still in the first sentence? Thank you,
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fulltime on video selection /production and the reliance on punkcast was over.
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601:. What was special about Punkcast was that it was DIY audience video and thus
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Not sure if listing artists filmed gives any notability and I was looking at
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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Also I was looking at the list of bands you put up there, do you know about
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in 1997. Even that was too late for the first punkcast which downloadable
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I'd suggest a closer reading of both the VV and Brooklyn Vegan sources.
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Good idea. Can you talk about the New York Noise claim too? Thank you,
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Funny but I do not think that holds up to wikipedia standards. :)
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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Sigh. If it has to be done, it has to be done. Do you think
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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they are filmed, and the links posted, by me. Problem?
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http://paperthinwalls.com/featuredarticle/index?id=141
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What you say does not seem to cancel out this phrase "
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http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/watch.html
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1385:source check
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1162:these videos
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439:7.5m views.
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363:
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173:Punkcast.com
172:
169:online video
164:
120:
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77:
36:no consensus
35:
1352:Sourcecheck
1284:. Regards,
1273:About your
1225:Eben Moglen
1104:Thank you,
707:Soul Brains
165:Joly MacFie
127:Joly Macfie
123:Joly MacFie
1433:Categories
727:The Gossip
1405:this tool
1398:this tool
1259:MarioNovi
1233:Wwwhatsup
1205:MarioNovi
1181:MarioNovi
1166:Wwwhatsup
1160:Ok, take
1135:MarioNovi
1121:Wwwhatsup
1106:MarioNovi
1085:Wwwhatsup
1071:MarioNovi
1054:Wwwhatsup
1036:MarioNovi
1011:Wwwhatsup
997:MarioNovi
982:MarioNovi
966:Wwwhatsup
936:MarioNovi
921:Wwwhatsup
902:MarioNovi
885:Wwwhatsup
871:MarioNovi
856:Wwwhatsup
842:MarioNovi
828:Wwwhatsup
805:MarioNovi
791:Wwwhatsup
764:MarioNovi
746:MarioNovi
699:Goldblade
676:MarioNovi
653:MarioNovi
625:MarioNovi
611:Wwwhatsup
595:RealVideo
568:MarioNovi
550:Wwwhatsup
532:MarioNovi
514:MarioNovi
500:Wwwhatsup
491:DIY ethic
472:MarioNovi
458:MarioNovi
441:Wwwhatsup
416:MarioNovi
401:Wwwhatsup
382:MarioNovi
366:Wwwhatsup
346:MarioNovi
326:Wwwhatsup
297:MarioNovi
275:Wwwhatsup
245:MarioNovi
230:Wwwhatsup
206:Wwwhatsup
188:Sjakkalle
147:Wwwhatsup
131:Sjakkalle
96:Wwwhatsup
1411:Cheers.—
1315:Punkcast
1277:request:
192:(Check!)
180:events."
135:(Check!)
106:contribs
28:deletion
1421::Online
1338:checked
1319:my edit
1346:failed
1031:WP:ADV
760:WP:VNT
607:WP:PEA
599:MPEG-1
88:, and
60:scale.
1050:about
719:Liars
672:WP:LC
288:links
171:site
1342:true
1295:TALK
1263:talk
1237:talk
1229:GFDL
1223:and
1209:talk
1185:talk
1170:talk
1139:talk
1125:talk
1110:talk
1089:talk
1075:talk
1058:talk
1040:talk
1015:talk
1001:talk
986:talk
970:talk
940:talk
925:talk
914:Try
906:talk
889:talk
875:talk
860:talk
846:talk
832:talk
809:talk
795:talk
768:talk
750:talk
721:and
680:talk
657:talk
629:talk
615:talk
572:talk
554:talk
536:talk
518:talk
504:talk
476:talk
462:talk
445:talk
420:talk
405:talk
386:talk
370:talk
350:talk
330:talk
301:talk
279:talk
249:talk
234:talk
210:talk
151:talk
100:talk
34:was
1379:RfC
1356:).
1344:or
691:GBH
603:UGC
498:.
177:NYC
92:.
1435::
1392:.
1387:}}
1383:{{
1354:}}
1350:{{
1298:)
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103:·
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38:.
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