1326:. But this is a club which abbreviates itself purposely and continuously as STVV, so they intentionally drop the "K" themselves when referring to themselves. Of the clubs listed above, the abbreviation RSCA is often used (you might hear Sporting Anderlecht), while Gent is typically referred to as AA Gent (so intentionally without the K). I have never heard anyone say KAS Eupen or K Beerschot VAC (just Eupen and Beerschot), same as R. Charleroi S.C. which is commonly referred to as Sporting Charleroi or just Charleroi, but definitely never
914:, etc... The only exception to this is maybe Royal Antwerp (so this is definitely not a standard naming convention as mentioned in the original proposal!!!), a club which insists on having this in their name because they claim to be the oldest club in Belgium. This club as well is referred to simply as Antwerp, but they at least insist on using Royal Antwerp as their name in UEFA competition and on their website etc... I do agree however that the initial letter is
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In that case it would be an exception wrt other teams which do keep the "R" (or "K") in their article title. The only thing which makes this article title "weird" to some is that the R is in front and the SC is at the end. No one is complaining about R.S.C. Anderlecht but could just as well have been
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like Royal
Antwerp or even resort to the full name as done in the French and Dutch versions. You can look at the viewer stats and see that the numbers are very low because the reader can't figure out what this club really is. It is something to do with the club's identity. It is not our job to come
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If you want to change this I would say we need to discuss the naming system for
Belgian clubs and come up with a general naming proposal to which we then adapt all but I don't think we want to write all in full so don't see an easy way out tbh. (Sidenote: a lot of clubs also have the abbreviations
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I'm not the only one who doesn't like the current situation. I gave examples of the uncommonness of this designation, as there are many who do not know what the letter R indicates, let alone when it is in the foreground. There are many who do not even know that
Belgium is a monarchy. And when you
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10:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC) By the way, some background, clubs in
Belgium can obtain the Royal decree in their name after 25 years of existence, which historically most clubs did as some kind of status symbol. But officially almost no one still refers to them as Royal(e) (French) or Koninklijke
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Another idea, why not just remove the dots and go for R Charleroi SC. It seems there is an inconsistency there as well, we're using abbreviated names without dots for Club Brugge KV, KV Mechelen and K Beerschot VA (without dots), but at the same time abbreviated K.R.C. Genk, K.A.A. Gent, K.V.
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as
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The discussion has been open for 25 days, and a clear consensus is not formed. The previous RM, and suggested title from it was mentioned here, but it did not get support either. No prejudice for a new RM after around two-three months, with sources supporting the new name (eg common name).
1837:, they talk about themselves as just "Sporting" with the main title in the logo area being Sporting de Charleroi but there are instances where they use Royal in their title and the use of R for royal are apparent. Which in the end, leads back to the correct title being
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but only an abbreviation. The question is really only whether we use the longer official name or the name the club's commonly known by: I think the French is instructive, where it's officially titled but then the common name used throughout the rest of the article.
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I can't understand why you're objecting and you're bringing up a topic that has nothing to do with it. What is the relationship of other
Belgian clubs with this request? Or is it an objection only for the sake of objection and we repeat the same after a
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move for now as there has not been a consensus on the standard of how to deal with
Belgian clubs with "Royal" or "Koninklijke". We need to establish that first and keep it consistent. Also, the club refers to itself on its Instagram page as Sporting
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The "R" and "K" in front mostly refer to the French/Dutch/German for "Royal" and this is a designation any club can get after an existence of 25 years. It's been abbrevatiated for simplicity, just like the FC in
English football clubs
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Hello. I can understand your position. But for getting the page moved/renamed I recommend proposing the new title with rationales like "consistency", sources supporting the common name, or something similar like that. —usernamekiran
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R. Anderlecht S.C.. The standard naming convention (currently) would suggest to keep it as is, either with or without the dots. Only acceptable alternative imho is to write it out in full and align with the other exception, Antwerp.
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It is very unfortunate that two users are blocking progress in this topic. I myself will stop editing the
Charleroi Club articles until there is a solution to this dilemma. The amount of discrepancy in their opinion is
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discuss with argument and proof, they do not comment or respond to your questions to bring counter evidence. I'm trying to understand what they want, but I can't. Nevertheless, I will do the necessary.
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Well, no. The club names are structured differently. It's Royal
Sporting Club Anderlecht and Royal Charleroi Sporting Club so if you do include all the initials they would be correct as they are.
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Opposed to the proposed name in particular. Moving it to something which bothers less ppl could be done but then we might need to revise a lot of club names in Begium to remain consistent.
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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with
Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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I am an expert on Belgium football and no one refers to this team as "Royal Charleroi", the common name is just Charleroi or sometimes Sporting Charleroi. Similarly, no one speaks of
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No activity for a couple (5) days, having been re-listed. There is certainly consensus to move, but not consensus to what new title to move the article to. User:Ceyockey (
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This is a weird quirk that Belgian football seems to have. Whether it's the French Royal or the Dutch Koninklijke, they seem to often just put the initial first (see
972:
Feels unnatural as well... either pick Sporting Charleroi (the only 'short' name which is actually commonly used), or align with fr and nl wiki and opt for the full
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1276:: no one calls this team "Royal Charleroi". While the title LOOKS wrong, it is the actual full name of the team abbreviated (Royal Charleroi Sporting Club =: -->
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There are a multitude of inconsistent naming in the league table from different sources, however the main titles of the club, per ESPN has ROYAL CHARLEROI SC,
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Congrats on pushing your will through. Still disagree but I was not warned of yet another attempt to rename so didn't spot this. Almost no one calls the club
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Kortrijk, R.S.C. Anderlecht and many more... even R Antwerp FC is acceptable for me, although again for that one Royal Antwerp FC would be acceptable too.
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No one uses the R. Charleroi S.C. abbreviation anywhere, though, unless you need to shorten the club's official title - it looks like that's not the
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I don't understand. Are you opposed to my proposal to move or just to Royal Charleroi, which I did not propose? The club usually refers to itself as
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922:(as is the case on the fr and nl wikipedia!), or just use their common name as title and display the full name only in the article itself.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
1507:. You must provide stronger arguments than that, and you cannot make assumptions like "this is why viewer stats are low" just like that.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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I'm not expert on Belgian football. But the current name has confused me a few times and the proposed name makes more sense to me.
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which suggests there isn't quite a COMMONNAME, so per above and what GiantSnowman said makes sense to have the article at
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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1706:→ ? – As we said before, the current title is far from convincing. There is no new title assigned. What do you suggest?
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list them as Royal Antwerp but R Cherleroi SC and R Standard de Liège which doesn't help. On a quick Google search of
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I no longer support the move as proposed having read Pelotas' comments. I'm unsure about the best move.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The current title is too bad. No one calls it R. Charleroi S.C. at all. We can move it either to
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and Soccerbase has a different inconsistency to the other two by just having Charleroi,
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I think the best idea is to make it either "Sporting Charleroi" or "Charleroi S.C."
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R. Charleroi S.C.), and there are numerous examples of similar names:
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was Charleroi SC and that that should be the page name, a bit like
1532:. 28 views in a single day at best. Even the clubs itself uses
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Convention in Belgium is to include fullstops, so it would be
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889:(I don't know if I can support my own request but here I am.)
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Hi, can someone possibly explain why there is a redirect from
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and so per the system above the article should be moved to
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Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the
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Why are you angry? What you call "assumptions" is facts.
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etc... so imho it makes sense for those to ADD the dots)
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On 5 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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The only notable exception I could immediately find is
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on 20 August 2023. The result of the move review was
1742:'s list of association football-related page moves.
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759:'s list of association football-related page moves.
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713:. I also support such a move, for what it's worth.
596:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
523:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
417:This article has not yet received a rating on the
705:- to match standard naming conventions (see e.g.
1289:(Koninklijke Beerschot Voetbal en Atletiek Club)
44:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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960:- the current name is definitely not correct.
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1311:. Same stuff, different letters.
1283:(Royal Sporting Club Anderlecht)
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1714:) 20:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
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1652:Requested move 5 November 2023
640:Requested move 20 January 2021
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397:Knowledge:WikiProject Belgium
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289:and see a list of open tasks.
53:Put new text under old text.
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618:? Thank you foryour time.
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1949:
1948:
1943:
1938:
1933:
1928:
1923:
1918:
1908:
1907:
1904:
1903:
1902:
1901:
1900:
1899:
1859:
1858:
1857:
1815:
1814:
1813:
1800:Charleroi S.C.
1775:
1753:
1701:
1676:
1675:
1661:requested move
1655:
1653:
1650:
1649:
1648:
1647:
1646:
1645:
1644:
1643:
1642:
1571:
1570:
1569:
1568:
1567:
1566:
1565:
1564:
1563:
1548:
1505:WP:IDONTLIKEIT
1461:
1460:
1437:
1436:
1435:
1434:
1433:
1432:
1415:
1335:Club Brugge KV
1330:
1312:
1304:
1303:
1302:
1296:
1290:
1284:
1266:
1265:
1235:
1213:
1165:Charleroi S.C.
1148:
1133:
1132:
1118:requested move
1112:
1109:
1108:
1094:
1083:
1080:
1078:
1077:
1067:
1066:
1065:
1064:
1063:
1062:
1061:
1060:
1059:
1058:
1057:
1056:
1055:
991:
958:Charleroi S.C.
951:
950:
901:
884:
866:
865:
864:
863:
849:
835:Standard Liège
823:R Charleroi SC
811:R. Knokke F.C.
799:K Beerschot VA
792:
791:
771:
770:
685:
683:
664:
663:
649:requested move
643:
641:
638:
611:
608:
602:BetacommandBot
538:
535:
529:BetacommandBot
469:
466:
463:
462:
455:the discussion
443:
431:
430:
427:
426:
423:
422:
415:
409:
408:
406:
389:the discussion
376:
375:
372:Belgium portal
359:
347:
346:
341:
329:
328:
325:
324:
317:Mid-importance
313:
307:
306:
304:
287:the discussion
274:
273:
257:
245:
244:
242:Mid‑importance
236:
224:
223:
217:
206:
192:
191:
129:
128:
124:
123:
118:
113:
104:
103:
101:
100:
93:
88:
79:
73:
71:
70:
59:
50:
49:
46:
45:
39:
24:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1958:
1947:
1944:
1942:
1939:
1937:
1934:
1932:
1929:
1927:
1924:
1922:
1919:
1917:
1914:
1913:
1911:
1898:
1895:
1893:
1892:
1889:
1888:
1883:
1877:
1872:
1871:
1870:
1869:
1868:
1867:
1863:
1856:
1852:
1848:
1844:
1840:
1836:
1832:
1828:
1825:
1822:
1819:
1816:
1812:
1809:
1806:
1802:
1801:
1796:
1795:
1794:
1790:
1786:
1782:
1781:
1776:
1774:
1771:
1768:
1764:
1760:
1759:
1754:
1751:
1748:
1745:
1741:
1736:
1735:
1734:
1732:
1728:
1724:
1721:
1720:
1713:
1709:
1705:
1700:
1699:
1695:
1691:
1690:Reading Beans
1686:
1681:
1674:
1672:
1667:
1662:
1657:
1656:
1651:
1641:
1637:
1633:
1626:
1625:Usernamekiran
1621:
1620:
1619:
1616:
1609:
1604:
1603:
1602:
1598:
1594:
1587:
1586:Usernamekiran
1582:
1581:
1580:
1579:
1575:
1562:
1558:
1554:
1549:
1547:
1543:
1539:
1535:
1531:
1525:
1520:
1519:
1518:
1514:
1510:
1506:
1500:
1495:
1494:
1493:
1489:
1485:
1480:
1476:
1470:
1465:
1464:
1463:
1462:
1459:
1455:
1451:
1447:
1442:
1439:
1438:
1431:
1428:
1426:
1425:
1422:
1421:
1416:
1414:
1411:
1409:
1403:
1401:
1396:
1395:SportingFlyer
1391:
1390:WP:COMMONNAME
1387:
1386:
1385:
1381:
1377:
1373:
1369:
1368:
1367:
1364:
1362:
1361:
1358:
1357:
1352:
1348:
1344:
1340:
1336:
1331:
1329:
1325:
1321:
1317:
1313:
1310:
1305:
1300:
1297:
1294:
1291:
1288:
1285:
1282:
1279:
1278:
1275:
1271:
1268:
1267:
1264:
1263:
1260:
1258:
1252:
1250:
1245:
1244:SportingFlyer
1241:
1236:
1234:
1231:
1228:
1224:
1220:
1219:
1214:
1211:
1208:
1205:
1201:
1196:
1195:
1194:
1192:
1188:
1184:
1181:
1180:
1173:
1169:
1166:
1162:
1157:
1152:
1147:
1146:
1143:
1138:
1137:no consensus.
1131:
1129:
1124:
1119:
1114:
1113:
1106:
1102:
1098:
1095:
1088:
1087:
1081:
1076:
1074:
1069:
1068:
1054:
1050:
1046:
1042:
1041:
1040:
1037:
1035:
1034:
1031:
1030:
1024:
1023:
1022:
1018:
1014:
1010:
1009:
1008:
1005:
1003:
1002:
999:
998:
992:
990:
987:
985:
984:
981:
980:
975:
971:
970:
969:
966:
963:
959:
955:
954:
953:
952:
949:
946:
944:
943:
940:
939:
933:
931:
930:
927:
926:
921:
917:
913:
909:
905:
904:Strong Oppose
902:
900:
896:
892:
888:
885:
883:
879:
875:
871:
868:
867:
862:
858:
854:
850:
848:
844:
840:
836:
832:
831:WP:COMMONNAME
828:
824:
820:
816:
812:
808:
804:
800:
796:
795:
794:
793:
790:
786:
782:
778:
777:
773:
772:
768:
765:
762:
758:
753:
752:
751:
749:
746:
735:
734:
732:Nnadigoodluck
727:
726:
719:
716:
712:
708:
702:
696:
692:
688:
682:
681:
676:
675:
669:
668:No consensus.
662:
660:
655:
650:
645:
644:
639:
637:
636:
632:
628:
617:
609:
607:
606:
603:
599:
595:
592:described on
589:
587:
583:
579:
576:Please go to
574:
572:
568:
564:
560:
556:
552:
551:
543:
536:
534:
533:
530:
526:
522:
519:described on
516:
514:
510:
506:
503:Please go to
501:
499:
495:
491:
487:
483:
482:
474:
467:
460:
456:
452:
448:
444:
437:
436:
420:
414:
411:
410:
407:
390:
386:
382:
381:
373:
362:
360:
357:
353:
352:
348:
345:
342:
339:
335:
322:
318:
312:
309:
308:
305:
288:
284:
280:
279:
271:
265:
260:
258:
255:
251:
250:
246:
240:
237:
234:
230:
225:
221:
215:
207:
203:
198:
197:
188:
184:
181:
178:
174:
170:
166:
163:
160:
157:
154:
151:
148:
145:
142:
138:
135:
134:Find sources:
131:
130:
122:
121:Verifiability
119:
117:
114:
112:
109:
108:
107:
98:
94:
92:
89:
87:
83:
80:
78:
75:
74:
68:
64:
63:Learn to edit
60:
57:
52:
51:
48:
47:
43:
37:
33:
29:
28:
19:
1891:
1886:
1881:
1861:
1838:
1817:
1798:
1780:Charleroi SC
1777:
1755:
1718:
1717:
1702:
1679:
1677:
1665:
1658:
1573:
1445:
1440:
1424:
1419:
1405:
1397:
1360:
1355:
1327:
1323:
1319:
1293:K.A.S. Eupen
1269:
1254:
1246:
1237:
1215:
1183:Adumbrativus
1178:
1177:
1149:
1136:
1134:
1122:
1115:
1104:
1096:
1072:
1070:
1033:
1028:
1001:
996:
983:
978:
942:
937:
929:
924:
919:
915:
911:
907:
903:
886:
869:
819:Charleroi SC
775:
774:
730:
724:
723:
684:
672:
667:
665:
653:
646:
613:
600:. Thank you.
590:
575:
562:
548:
547:
527:. Thank you.
517:
502:
479:
478:
458:
378:
316:
276:
220:WikiProjects
182:
176:
168:
161:
155:
149:
143:
133:
105:
30:This is the
1845:. Regards.
1671:move review
1524:Paul Vaurie
1509:Paul Vaurie
1469:Paul Vaurie
1450:Paul Vaurie
1299:K.A.A. Gent
1128:move review
1013:Paul Vaurie
891:Paul Vaurie
853:Robby.is.on
781:Robby.is.on
701:Paul Vaurie
659:move review
616:Mehdi Bayat
210:Start-class
159:free images
42:not a forum
1910:Categories
1884:, pity. --
1876:Dl.thinker
1719:Relisting.
1708:Dl.thinker
1632:Dl.thinker
1608:Dl.thinker
1593:Dl.thinker
1553:Dl.thinker
1538:Dl.thinker
1499:Dl.thinker
1484:Dl.thinker
1376:Dl.thinker
1351:KM Torhout
1179:Relisting.
1168:Dl.thinker
872:per nom.--
725:Relisting.
674:talk to me
1339:RFC Liège
711:Soccerway
610:Redirect?
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
1778:Move to
1756:Move to
1551:while.--
1530:see here
1238:Move to
1216:Move to
1105:Endorsed
935:(Dutch)
874:Ortizesp
571:fair use
555:fair use
498:fair use
486:fair use
292:Football
239:Football
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
1887:Pelotas
1835:website
1818:Comment
1808:Snowman
1770:Snowman
1761:as per
1747:Snowman
1723:Jenks24
1420:Pelotas
1356:Pelotas
1230:Snowman
1221:as per
1207:Snowman
1029:Pelotas
997:Pelotas
979:Pelotas
965:Snowman
938:Pelotas
925:Pelotas
916:strange
887:Support
870:Support
776:Support
764:Snowman
718:Snowman
394:Belgium
385:Belgium
344:Belgium
319:on the
165:WP refs
153:scholar
1829:, why
1680:moved.
1615:(talk)
1441:Oppose
1270:Oppose
1142:(talk)
695:behalf
216:scale.
137:Google
1847:Govvy
1805:Giant
1767:Giant
1744:Giant
1227:Giant
1204:Giant
962:Giant
761:Giant
715:Giant
627:Lotje
459:moved
449:from
447:moved
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1851:talk
1789:talk
1727:talk
1712:talk
1694:talk
1636:talk
1597:talk
1557:talk
1542:talk
1513:talk
1488:talk
1454:talk
1380:talk
1187:talk
1172:talk
1099:was
1049:talk
1017:talk
895:talk
878:talk
857:talk
843:talk
825:and
815:UEFA
809:and
785:talk
631:talk
563:this
457:was
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1831:BBC
1477:or
1374:.--
1163:or
697:of
413:???
311:Mid
187:TWL
1912::
1853:)
1791:)
1765:.
1729:)
1716:—
1696:)
1663:.
1638:)
1599:)
1559:)
1544:)
1536:.
1515:)
1490:)
1456:)
1446:de
1382:)
1349:,
1345:,
1341:,
1337:,
1225:.
1189:)
1176:—
1153:→
1120:.
1051:)
1019:)
910:,
897:)
880:)
859:)
845:)
837:.
821:,
805:,
801:,
787:)
689:→
678:)
651:.
633:)
573:.
500:.
167:)
65:;
1878::
1874:@
1849:(
1787:(
1725:(
1710:(
1692:(
1687:)
1683:(
1634:(
1627::
1623:@
1610::
1606:@
1595:(
1588::
1584:@
1555:(
1540:(
1526::
1522:@
1511:(
1501::
1497:@
1486:(
1471::
1467:@
1452:(
1408:C
1404:·
1400:T
1378:(
1307:(
1257:C
1253:·
1249:T
1185:(
1170:(
1107:.
1047:(
1015:(
893:(
876:(
855:(
841:(
783:(
744:█
741:█
738:█
728:—
722:—
703::
699:@
629:(
461:.
421:.
323:.
222::
183:·
177:·
169:·
162:·
156:·
150:·
144:·
139:(
69:.
20:)
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