1114:" (in the lead sentence) and "the Ramones" (elsewhere). The pagename should stay as is (without "the"), as should the explanatory note in the lead sentence, and "The" should not be bolded in the lead sentence. I think it's tricky to rely on what some of the band members have been quoted as saying in interviews, but it's reasonable to consider how sources generally word the name in common use, when deciding how to write text here. (I looked at the reference list, and quite a few sources use "the" in their titles, though not all do.) On the other hand, the "official" designation should be used for the pagename. --
1228:, however, is a policy for Knowledge articles which specifically states the name should only use the definite article "if the definite article is used by the band on their musical publications (CDs, audiotapes, records, etc.) or on their official website" which they don’t in either instance. As far as confusion as to why the lead sentence uses "Ramones" instead of "The Ramones" that's what the footnote I originally placed is actually for before it got altered. If a user can't figure it out past that, how much further are we supposed to hold their hands through an article?
1181:"This only applies if the definite article is used by the band on their musical publications (CDs, audiotapes, records, etc.) or on their official website. Conversely, some bands – such as Eurythmics, Eagles, Pixies and Odds – do not have the in their names, even though they may sometimes (or even often) be referred to as "the (Name)" in everyday speech. In all cases, default to the form of the name that is actually used by the band themselves, and use "(band)" to disambiguate if necessary."
598:
841:
820:
851:
774:
749:
297:
500:
345:
717:
589:
655:
631:
249:
219:
665:
952:
drummer but that he was fired after two performances. If he was hired and fired, he was a member, regardless of how short the time may have been. Nothing I’ve seen notes that he was hired as a touring drummer until they could find a full time one. He was hired as a member and therefore deserves recognition as such.
1508:
Edit: I ended up leaving some reference to "power pop" in the article, in a way that doesn't mangle reality, but you've got to stop putting it in infobox. It isn't so, and THERE IS NO NOTABLE SOURCE, and never will be, THAT DESCRIBES THE RAMONES AS A POWER POP BAND. They are so strongly identified as
1183:
As mentioned in a previous conversation on this very talk page, despite how the band may say the name in interviews, the band officially uses
Ramones as the name, not the Ramones. That goes for their official album releases, merchandise, website, etc., just as the above policy states. If the rest of
951:
I don’t really have an opinion regarding the Joey Ramone issue but in the case of Elvis Ramone the existing source within the article already supports his membership in the band. A Google search on him reveals several additional sources that state he was hired with the intention of him being the new
1501:
The third is from Punk
Magazine founder John Holmstom, but as I have noted previously on this page- Holmstrom merely said in an interview "some people considered the Ramones power pop". He didn't identify who those people were... was it fans? musicians? journos? He was not writing that the Ramones
932:
Joey was the drummer for the first few rehearsals, I don't think that's worthy of being mentioned in the band members section. I mean, they started in early 1974, and by their first gig in March they already had Tommy on the drums. It's more that Joey was going to be the drummer rather than he was
1029:
It's universally agreed that the band is officially known as "Ramones" because that is how they are credited on their CDS, audiotapes, and records. However, most other publications refer to this band as "the
Ramones". Interviews reveal that the members of the group also refer to their band with a
1455:
The first "Power Pop" source says: "Tom Petty, The Cars, Blondie, The
Bangles, XTC, and even Ramones and R.E.M — in their early stage — and many others at some point had at least a song or two, if not more, that can easily be labeled as power pop." Yeah? The Ramones also have songs that are
1491:("death of me", "highest trails above", "i just wanna have something to do", etc.), and more. Should we add all these genres? Suppose I could find some blogs and a random scenester that remarks that "wart hog" and "the crusher" are the Ramones contributing to the development of
1184:
the article wants to refer to the band members as "the
Ramones" I see no issue with that as it's talking about the members, but the article name, infobox and lead sentence should refer to them in the way their official named which does not contain "the" in the title.
259:
1251:. The Eagles and other examples serve as precedent, and if the issue is about overall usage, that's a different RfC. I think this is about Readability and writing to the general reader, who would find the dropping of the article odd.
1545:
Note that I removed Stern and he was put back due to "lack of consensus" here. Interesting, though, is there hasn't been any answer to my question yet. It seems odd that someone who never performed with a band is listed as a member.
602:
153:
284:
in their names, even though they may sometimes (or even often) be referred to as "the (Name)" in everyday speech. In all cases, default to the form of the name that is actually used by the band themselves
936:
And for 'Elvis Ramone', can anyone find a source that says he was an official member and not just a fill-in for two shows? Without an official source, he should not be in the band members section. -
1630:
731:
373:
1081:, the band members' everyday speech should be considered authoritative. And Knowledge already uses unofficial definite articles for a countless number of group entities, like "the
190:
1610:
1046:
This is not an RfC about changing the title of the article, but in how
Knowledge writes about this band and others with similar naming disputes. In the survey, please answer
568:
1625:
1650:
907:
897:
210:
147:
1224:, that's an article about a rule that "applies to user interface and software design" to which Knowledge articles have no connection or obligation to follow.
1585:
573:
1655:
1600:
556:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
1615:
79:
1595:
1645:
1605:
873:
1640:
683:
548:
1635:
85:
1505:
I hate the "pop punk" tag too, but I can rewrite that part of the article to reflect the sources accurately. The "power pop" label is bunk.
1620:
687:
1483:("california sun", "surfin' bird", "sheena is a punk rocker", "do you wanna dance?", "rockaway beach", "surf city", "surfin safari" etc),
1220:
It's identical to the point I presented above months ago. My stance hasn't changed from then to now. As far as the failure in regards to
968:
RfC: Should
Knowledge generally (i.e. within the lead and article body; not infoboxes, titles, etc.) refer to this band as "the Ramones"?
864:
825:
326:
691:
1268:
IMO this has little or nothing to do with their official name, it's more about the normal and non-awkward way to write a sentence.
682:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
1525:
Should Stern really be counted as a member of the band if he only lasted a few rehearsals and never actually performed with them?
1590:
1575:
780:
754:
520:
516:
510:
1221:
1203:
726:
678:
641:
636:
314:
99:
44:
30:
104:
20:
1033:
998:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1443:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
308:
74:
1580:
1256:
611:
984:
168:
65:
872:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
135:
1509:
purveyors of punk rock music, and you are diluting that truth with these ephemeral associations with other genres.
218:
185:
1287:. If the band routinely refer to themselves that way, and so do reliable sources in most cases, that is then the
1110:, the lead sentence and sentences throughout the page, where syntactically appropriate, should use the form "The
229:
1036:
1514:
1480:
1252:
557:
109:
1077:, for the sake of consistency and the common syntactical usage of the name. Depending on how you interpret
449:
430:
411:
392:
206:
202:
198:
194:
129:
1336:
617:
296:
1135:, another band whose name does not officially include the word "the" but is often referred to as such.
499:
344:
1355:
1330:"Jackie is a bookie / Judy's taking loans / They both came up to New York / Just to see the Ramones."
1288:
1119:
856:
785:
759:
567:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
125:
1395:
1311:
1275:
161:
55:
1291:
and should be how the article refers to them. From what I can find, that is indeed the case here.
1510:
1429:
1324:
1292:
1233:
1189:
1163:
957:
571:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
234:
70:
175:
1412:
1378:
1024:
941:
318:
265:
51:
1547:
1526:
1370:
1347:
1332:
670:
487:
468:
231:
1158:
simply uses the style "Ramones", but that's not very relevant to an encyclopedia article.
1351:
1115:
1031:
564:
1346:"Tryptofish looked back here / Tryptofish is glad / To see this amusing quote / From Mr.
1179:. The following sentence, specifically referring to bands, makes it crystal clear to me.
1469:
1391:
1306:
1211:
1154:
per other comments. As a band, they were and are commonly called "the
Ramones". Most
1094:
1059:
1502:
were a Power Pop band in an article in his occasional function as a rock journalist.
1202:
Now that you explain it that way, I can see the logic, but I still think it fails the
840:
819:
1569:
1476:
1461:
1457:
1425:
1229:
1225:
1185:
1176:
1159:
1132:
1107:
1078:
1020:
976:
953:
869:
273:
269:
141:
716:
1408:
1374:
1136:
937:
1484:
277:
773:
748:
654:
630:
1473:
1465:
846:
660:
1488:
1207:
1090:
1055:
504:
1492:
1468:("i want you around", "i won't let it happen", "don't come close" etc.),
1131:
per the two above comments. This would be consistent with how we handle
1003:
24:
1023:
doesn't appear to adequately address disputes regarding the use of
690:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
233:
1155:
1086:
1040:
1487:("chain saw", "pet sematary", "...basement", "zero Zero ufo"),
1424:, to do otherwise is pedantry when this usage is so universal.
1021:
Current policy regarding the naming conventions of music groups
1560:
1539:
1433:
1416:
1399:
1382:
1359:
1340:
1318:
1297:
1279:
1260:
1237:
1215:
1193:
1167:
1146:
1123:
1098:
1082:
1063:
979:
961:
945:
582:
563:
from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
540:
243:
235:
15:
1452:
The
Ramones are, of course, a PUNK ROCK band, nothing else.
1106:. (I came here from the RfC notice.) Based on my reading of
1002:
There is a longtime dispute regarding the first sentence of
715:
1407:
For consistency and they are mostly referred to as that.
1495:(rap punk?)... would that be fair game for the infobox?
480:
461:
442:
423:
404:
385:
366:
160:
1043:, take the same approach being proposed in this RfC.
503:
Facts from this article were featured on
Knowledge's
868:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
254:
The first sentence of this article begins with "The
1206:, for all the reasons that have already been said.
783:, a project which is currently considered to be
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1498:The second source is from a non-notable blog.
1175:I see mentions of different interpretations of
1631:High-importance biography (musicians) articles
324:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
174:
8:
1390:, based on what they are commonly known as.
1006:, specifically, whether it should begin as "
1611:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in People
814:
743:
625:
338:
291:
262:. The relevant instruction states that "
1626:GA-Class biography (musicians) articles
816:
745:
627:
1472:("chop suey", "howling at the moon"),
1329:
1305:Otherwise the prose would be bizarre.
1014:
1007:
263:
1651:Low-importance New York City articles
1030:definite article in everyday speech.
7:
1464:("animal boy", "weasel face", etc),
1054:in reference to the title question.
994:The following discussion is closed.
862:This article is within the scope of
779:This article is within the scope of
676:This article is within the scope of
588:
586:
1586:Biography articles of living people
1373:'s argument above is irresistible.
882:Knowledge:WikiProject New York City
23:for discussing improvements to the
1656:WikiProject New York City articles
1601:Knowledge vital articles in People
885:Template:WikiProject New York City
14:
1616:GA-Class vital articles in People
317:. If you can improve it further,
1596:Knowledge level-5 vital articles
1439:The discussion above is closed.
849:
839:
818:
795:Knowledge:WikiProject Punk music
772:
747:
663:
653:
629:
596:
587:
546:This article must adhere to the
498:
343:
295:
247:
217:
45:Click here to start a new topic.
1646:GA-Class New York City articles
1606:GA-Class level-5 vital articles
1222:principle of least astonishment
1204:principle of least astonishment
902:This article has been rated as
798:Template:WikiProject Punk music
700:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
1641:WikiProject Biography articles
703:Template:WikiProject Biography
616:It is of interest to multiple
305:has been listed as one of the
1:
1636:Musicians work group articles
1521:Richie Stern as a band member
1434:07:05, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
980:14:03, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
876:and see a list of open tasks.
724:This article is supported by
549:biographies of living persons
42:Put new text under old text.
688:contribute to the discussion
260:Knowledge naming conventions
1621:GA-Class biography articles
1417:22:53, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
1400:22:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
1383:01:39, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
1360:20:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
1341:18:36, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
1319:18:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
1298:19:12, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
1280:00:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
1261:22:28, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1238:04:56, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
1216:21:27, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
1194:22:04, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1168:21:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1147:21:42, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1124:21:27, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1099:20:50, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1064:20:50, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
1027:in an unofficial capacity.
561:must be removed immediately
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
1672:
1561:17:27, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
908:project's importance scale
374:Featured article candidate
1540:17:33, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
962:20:17, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
946:16:47, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
901:
865:WikiProject New York City
834:
767:
723:
648:
624:
527:
497:
341:
337:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
1441:Please do not modify it.
1037:Electric Light Orchestra
1035:Other articles, such as
996:Please do not modify it.
1591:GA-Class vital articles
1576:Knowledge good articles
888:New York City articles
781:WikiProject Punk music
720:
75:avoid personal attacks
1479:("baby i love you"),
727:WikiProject Musicians
719:
679:WikiProject Biography
603:level-5 vital article
315:good article criteria
264:some bands – such as
211:Auto-archiving period
100:Neutral point of view
975:Overwhelming "yes".
928:Band members section
857:New York City portal
488:Good article nominee
469:Good article nominee
450:Good article nominee
431:Good article nominee
412:Good article nominee
393:Good article nominee
105:No original research
1581:Music good articles
1460:("questioningly"),
801:Punk music articles
309:Music good articles
1253:Pyrrho the Skeptic
997:
721:
706:biography articles
612:content assessment
405:September 29, 2007
349:Article milestones
86:dispute resolution
47:
1554:s among the rest!
1533:s among the rest!
1362:
1296:
1025:definite articles
995:
988:
985:non-admin closure
922:
921:
918:
917:
914:
913:
813:
812:
809:
808:
742:
741:
738:
737:
581:
580:
539:
538:
535:
534:
462:December 13, 2008
333:
290:
289:
258:" to comply with
242:
241:
66:Assume good faith
43:
1663:
1558:
1556:
1537:
1535:
1466:acoustic ballads
1345:
1316:
1314:Let's discuss it
1295:
1144:
982:
890:
889:
886:
883:
880:
859:
854:
853:
852:
843:
836:
835:
830:
822:
815:
803:
802:
799:
796:
793:
776:
769:
768:
763:
751:
744:
708:
707:
704:
701:
698:
684:join the project
673:
671:Biography portal
668:
667:
666:
657:
650:
649:
644:
633:
626:
609:
600:
599:
592:
591:
590:
583:
569:this noticeboard
541:
528:Current status:
502:
483:
481:November 7, 2009
464:
445:
426:
424:October 26, 2007
407:
388:
386:October 13, 2006
369:
348:
347:
339:
322:
299:
292:
251:
250:
244:
236:
222:
221:
212:
179:
178:
164:
95:Article policies
16:
1671:
1670:
1666:
1665:
1664:
1662:
1661:
1660:
1566:
1565:
1555:
1551:
1548:
1534:
1530:
1527:
1523:
1450:
1445:
1444:
1312:
1137:
1071:
1000:
991:
990:
989:
970:
930:
887:
884:
881:
878:
877:
855:
850:
848:
828:
800:
797:
794:
791:
790:
757:
732:High-importance
705:
702:
699:
696:
695:
669:
664:
662:
639:
610:on Knowledge's
607:
597:
479:
460:
441:
422:
403:
384:
365:
342:
248:
238:
237:
232:
209:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
1669:
1667:
1659:
1658:
1653:
1648:
1643:
1638:
1633:
1628:
1623:
1618:
1613:
1608:
1603:
1598:
1593:
1588:
1583:
1578:
1568:
1567:
1564:
1563:
1553:
1532:
1522:
1519:
1449:
1446:
1438:
1437:
1436:
1419:
1402:
1385:
1365:
1364:
1363:
1321:
1300:
1282:
1263:
1245:
1244:
1243:
1242:
1241:
1240:
1197:
1196:
1170:
1149:
1126:
1101:
1070:
1067:
1001:
992:
974:
973:
972:
971:
969:
966:
965:
964:
929:
926:
924:
920:
919:
916:
915:
912:
911:
904:Low-importance
900:
894:
893:
891:
874:the discussion
861:
860:
844:
832:
831:
829:Low‑importance
823:
811:
810:
807:
806:
804:
777:
765:
764:
752:
740:
739:
736:
735:
722:
712:
711:
709:
675:
674:
658:
646:
645:
634:
622:
621:
615:
593:
579:
578:
574:this help page
558:poorly sourced
544:
537:
536:
533:
532:
525:
524:
521:April 23, 2024
517:April 23, 2023
511:On this day...
495:
494:
491:
484:
476:
475:
472:
465:
457:
456:
453:
446:
443:April 17, 2008
438:
437:
434:
427:
419:
418:
415:
408:
400:
399:
396:
389:
381:
380:
377:
370:
362:
361:
358:
355:
351:
350:
335:
334:
300:
288:
287:
280:– do not have
252:
240:
239:
230:
228:
227:
224:
223:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1668:
1657:
1654:
1652:
1649:
1647:
1644:
1642:
1639:
1637:
1634:
1632:
1629:
1627:
1624:
1622:
1619:
1617:
1614:
1612:
1609:
1607:
1604:
1602:
1599:
1597:
1594:
1592:
1589:
1587:
1584:
1582:
1579:
1577:
1574:
1573:
1571:
1562:
1559:
1557:
1544:
1543:
1542:
1541:
1538:
1536:
1520:
1518:
1516:
1512:
1511:Keithramone33
1506:
1503:
1499:
1496:
1494:
1490:
1486:
1482:
1478:
1477:wall of sound
1475:
1471:
1467:
1463:
1459:
1453:
1447:
1442:
1435:
1431:
1427:
1423:
1420:
1418:
1414:
1410:
1406:
1403:
1401:
1397:
1393:
1389:
1386:
1384:
1380:
1376:
1372:
1369:
1366:
1361:
1357:
1353:
1349:
1344:
1343:
1342:
1338:
1334:
1331:
1327:
1326:
1322:
1320:
1317:
1315:
1310:
1309:
1304:
1301:
1299:
1294:
1293:Seraphimblade
1290:
1286:
1283:
1281:
1277:
1273:
1272:
1267:
1264:
1262:
1258:
1254:
1250:
1247:
1246:
1239:
1235:
1231:
1227:
1223:
1219:
1218:
1217:
1213:
1209:
1205:
1201:
1200:
1199:
1198:
1195:
1191:
1187:
1182:
1178:
1174:
1171:
1169:
1165:
1161:
1157:
1153:
1150:
1148:
1145:
1143:
1142:
1134:
1133:Eagles (band)
1130:
1127:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1113:
1109:
1105:
1102:
1100:
1096:
1092:
1088:
1084:
1080:
1076:
1073:
1072:
1068:
1066:
1065:
1061:
1057:
1053:
1049:
1044:
1042:
1038:
1034:
1032:
1026:
1022:
1018:
1017:
1012:
1011:
1005:
999:
986:
981:
978:
967:
963:
959:
955:
950:
949:
948:
947:
943:
939:
934:
933:the drummer.
927:
925:
909:
905:
899:
896:
895:
892:
879:New York City
875:
871:
870:New York City
867:
866:
858:
847:
845:
842:
838:
837:
833:
827:
826:New York City
824:
821:
817:
805:
788:
787:
782:
778:
775:
771:
770:
766:
761:
756:
753:
750:
746:
733:
730:(assessed as
729:
728:
718:
714:
713:
710:
693:
692:documentation
689:
685:
681:
680:
672:
661:
659:
656:
652:
651:
647:
643:
638:
635:
632:
628:
623:
619:
613:
605:
604:
594:
585:
584:
576:
575:
570:
566:
562:
559:
555:
551:
550:
545:
543:
542:
531:
526:
522:
518:
514:
512:
506:
501:
496:
492:
490:
489:
485:
482:
478:
477:
473:
471:
470:
466:
463:
459:
458:
454:
452:
451:
447:
444:
440:
439:
435:
433:
432:
428:
425:
421:
420:
416:
414:
413:
409:
406:
402:
401:
397:
395:
394:
390:
387:
383:
382:
378:
376:
375:
371:
368:
364:
363:
359:
356:
353:
352:
346:
340:
336:
331:
329:
328:
320:
316:
312:
311:
310:
304:
301:
298:
294:
293:
285:
283:
279:
275:
271:
267:
261:
257:
253:
246:
245:
226:
225:
220:
216:
208:
204:
200:
196:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1549:
1528:
1524:
1507:
1504:
1500:
1497:
1454:
1451:
1440:
1421:
1404:
1387:
1367:
1323:
1313:
1307:
1302:
1284:
1270:
1269:
1265:
1248:
1180:
1172:
1151:
1140:
1138:
1128:
1111:
1103:
1074:
1051:
1047:
1045:
1028:
1015:
1009:
993:
935:
931:
923:
903:
863:
784:
725:
677:
618:WikiProjects
601:
572:
560:
553:
547:
530:Good article
529:
508:
486:
467:
448:
429:
410:
391:
379:Not promoted
372:
367:May 18, 2006
325:
323:
319:please do so
307:
306:
302:
281:
255:
214:
184:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
1485:horror punk
1371:Newyorkbrad
1348:Newyorkbrad
1333:Newyorkbrad
1289:common name
1085:" and "the
148:free images
31:not a forum
1570:Categories
1474:girl group
1352:Tryptofish
1116:Tryptofish
792:Punk music
755:Punk music
515:column on
474:Not listed
455:Not listed
436:Not listed
417:Not listed
398:Not listed
313:under the
266:Eurythmics
1489:hard rock
1481:surf punk
1448:Power Pop
1392:Idealigic
1271:North8000
697:Biography
642:Musicians
637:Biography
606:is rated
565:libellous
505:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1493:rap rock
1470:new wave
1462:hardcore
1426:Retswerb
1230:NJZombie
1186:NJZombie
1160:Ghmyrtle
977:Levivich
954:NJZombie
786:inactive
760:inactive
608:GA-class
327:reassess
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1550:Stefen
1529:Stefen
1458:country
1409:Sea Ane
1375:Jschnur
1141:Calidum
1112:Ramones
1016:Ramones
1010:Ramones
1004:Ramones
938:Joltman
906:on the
507:in the
357:Process
303:Ramones
256:Ramones
215:90 days
154:WP refs
142:scholar
25:Ramones
1308:Cullen
1226:WP:THE
1177:WP:THE
1108:WP:THE
1079:WP:THE
1069:Survey
1013:" or "
614:scale.
519:, and
493:Listed
360:Result
274:Pixies
270:Eagles
126:Google
1552:Tower
1531:Tower
1350:." --
1156:merch
595:This
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1515:talk
1430:talk
1413:talk
1396:talk
1379:talk
1356:talk
1337:talk
1276:talk
1257:talk
1234:talk
1212:talk
1190:talk
1164:talk
1120:talk
1095:talk
1087:RIAA
1060:talk
1041:Nazz
1039:and
1008:The
958:talk
942:talk
686:and
354:Date
278:Odds
276:and
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1422:Yes
1405:Yes
1388:Yes
1368:Yes
1325:Yes
1303:Yes
1285:Yes
1266:Yes
1249:Yes
1208:ili
1152:Yes
1139:--
1129:Yes
1104:Yes
1091:ili
1089:".
1083:NFL
1075:Yes
1056:ili
1050:or
1048:Yes
1019:".
898:Low
554:BLP
282:the
176:TWL
1572::
1517:)
1432:)
1415:)
1398:)
1381:)
1358:)
1339:)
1328:.
1278:)
1259:)
1236:)
1214:)
1192:)
1173:No
1166:)
1122:)
1097:)
1062:)
1052:No
960:)
944:)
734:).
640::
330:it
321:.
286:".
272:,
268:,
213::
205:,
201:,
197:,
193:,
156:)
54:;
1513:(
1428:(
1411:(
1394:(
1377:(
1354:(
1335:(
1274:(
1255:(
1232:(
1210:(
1188:(
1162:(
1118:(
1093:(
1058:(
987:)
983:(
956:(
940:(
910:.
789:.
762:)
758:(
694:.
620:.
577:.
552:(
523:.
513:"
509:"
332:.
207:4
203:3
199:2
195:1
188::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
