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country, largely because none of these people had anything to do with it. "Guilt" should not be confused with compassion, caring or empathy. (The groups and individuals who actually committed atrocities against
African Americans throughout our history apparently felt very little guilt about it.) The abolishment of Slavery, Civil Rights, the removal of Jim Crow laws, Affirmative Action etc, were collective, organized attempts to right historical wrongs. I do not see where "guilt" enters into it. I hope there are some OTHER 'sources' on this subject, because this is one stupid idea. I agree it needs to be re-written.
1491:-- I think trying to mix the American experience with the Australian experience is causing the article to lose value. White guilt in America for slavery might be related to the movement for reconcilliation in Australia, sure, but the way it is disccussed here uses the American experience and terms as normative, and in the Australian context they aren't. "Sorry Day" in Australia does not mean what Martin Luther King Day does in the US, and although they arel inked in some sense, to treat the Australian one as somehow a version of the American experience is a failure, IMO.
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2431:"A report in the Washington Post from 1978 describes the exploitation of white guilt by con artists: "Telephone and mail solicitors, trading on 'white guilt' and on government pressure to advertise in minority-oriented publications, are inducing thousands of businessmen to buy ads in phony publications."" A three decade old report from a newspaper about con artists does not deserve its own paragraph, Knowledge (XXG) is not a news service.
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with. Others are often anxious to distance themselves from the actions of their ancestors and are said to feel a sense of collective guilt. Similarly it is said that descendants of oppressed people, some of whom have experienced modern day discrimination, sometimes expect whites, either collectively or individually, to feel and accept "white guilt".
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colonialism ? Also there is no such thing as "Europeans"-there are
Germans, Romanians, Hungarians, French, Russians, Poles. You have to note which national group from European continent you mean instead of writing "Europeans", which may mean an Albanian, French, Irish or Russian person. All of whom have different histories. --
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did not make the statements that are quoted in the article? We are clearly free to put POV statements into an article as long as they are correctly attributed to the person making them and that the article overall presents the topic in an NPOV manner. We can argue about whether or not Sunny's opinion
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They are chiefly considered that in the Anglo world (US, Canada, Australia, South Africa, the UK), not in Euro-America. The question whether Jews are white was raised rather often in the beginning of the 20th century due to their extensive immigration to the US. In general, the answer is dependant on
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wait... you're saying we should report anything that people say about white guilt as long as it's in an RS? that's pretty poor criteria. if we use that criteria, this article is going to fill up with opinions. the concept of white privilege is an academic/scholarly most of the other points in the
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It's probably a bit unfair of me to offer affirmative action as the sole example of western society trying to deal with white guilt. I expect there are lots of additional and alternative motivations behind the support that exists for affirmative action, and there are probably much better examples of
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I've taken a shot at revising this entry for a variety of reasons; mainly to remove weasel wording, POV statements, and generally awful writing. While it now reads as far more neutral and informative as before, in general there I don't think the topic really has that much going for it - white guilt
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Seems to me that "white guilt" is an anglo saxon concept which is preponderant into the anglo saxon world among protestant liberal white. During the slavery in USA, it wasn't rare to see masters showing "kindness" in paternalistic way to their black slaves. Maybe this behavior has remained into the
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The emphasis on "...sometimes expect whites, either collectively or individually, to feel and accept "white guilt"" without acknowledgement of high-profile contrary opinion seems biased. Indeed, given the political use of the concept of "white guilt", I'd further question the (uncritical) nature of
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White guilt is said to result in a feeling of lost moral authority on the part of some whites, so that they feel uncomfortable discussing issues of race and are very anxious to avoid being seen as racist. Whether white guilt is healthy, just, proper or unnecessary is a matter of controversy, as are
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Seeing as this is a relatively recent addition of poorly written impressions, and original theories regarding white guilt, I have taken the liberty of removing it. I am not opposed to a criticism section, provided it draws on legitimately sourced criticism (in other words, an editor's observation
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Today, some
Europeans and their ancestors are accused of committing wrongs against non-whites in the form of racial discrimination and colonialism. Many white people do not feel a sense of personal guilt over past oppression of other races, and resent being blamed for events they had nothing to do
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Assuming the existence of races for a while, the article does not explain why certain members of the 'white race' (Caucasians, Arabs and
Japaneese I guess?) seems to be the only one with enough compassion to feel this guild for behavior that ancestors did, hundreds of years ago, while other races
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XYZ,” we are not committing ourselves, in the article, to the existence of white guilt or to the aptness or anything else of white guilt. The “is” here is not the “is” of existence, but, instead, the “is” of predication. To recognize this, notice that if someone says “White guilt does not exist,”
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Jews are usually considered white in Euro-American contexts, especially the
Ashkenazim who are the majority. Sephardim, like other mediterranean peoples, used to be considered non-white but now, not so much. I don't know about Mizrahim. In any case, I've never heard "white guilt" used to refer to
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ps. if someone wants to put backup data into the blurb, i may change my position that it is OR. i'm being generous calling it OR, it sounds more like an NPOV opinion. OR someone can show me that Sunny Hundal is some kind of expert in race relations from a sociology or psychology or poli-sci or
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No such thing as "reverse" racism, it either is or it isn't. But I do agree; this is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. I can't even imagine how this ridiculous idea ever came to be, I have never known another caucasian person who feels "guilty" about what happened to
Africans in this
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If you want to talk about Jews and oppressor guilt, it should probably be in an article about "Christian guilt" or "Muslim guilt" or "Aryan guilt" or "German guilt", not one about white guilt. Countries like the US or
Britain or the USSR expressed no guilt about the Holocaust back then, although
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Reconcilliation between indigenous and non-indigenous
Australians has been a huge issue in AUstralia (and still is). The "White guilt" card has been played out by polemecists (who have on occasion selectively quoted Jackie Huggins to ignore her statements about no expection of Guilt) in order to
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coming to a conclusion. This is Sunny coming to a conclusion -which is what we are supposed to use. (admitedly, if one were a supporter of the concept that there is no white guilt, one would want somthing more than a columnist to make the case using no data, but that really is not an issue for
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Jews, blacks and
American Indians are all focusses of 'White Guilt'. Jews in particular benefitted from the creation of the state of Israel, surely the supreme manifestation of 'white guilt in action' following the horrors of the Holocaust. Colour is clearly not the primary issue. Cassandra.
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European countries that didn't engage in colonialism or those
European nations who were persecuted or had lower status in European colonial powers during the age of colonialism ? Is there a position on that ? Or do proponents of this theory believe all European countries and people engaged in
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I think that my latest changes should be able to stand on their own merit, regardless of what consensus on that passage of the MoS says. "People of color" is considered pejoritive by a lot of people. "Non-white" is more neutral and (in my opinion) more accurately reflects the intention of the
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Perhaps it doesn't deserve its own paragraph, but surely a paragraph for policy changes based upon, or at least tangentially related to white guilt, is not out of place? In that paragraph it could be further expanded upon how "white guilt" has affected Affirmative Action, or perhaps even the
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white guilt are come the academic social science uses. if you want to include something like sunny hundal is stating, then sunny hundal had better be the RS. otherwise we're going to end up with all kinds of unsubstantiated opinions about white guilt include in the white guilt article.
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are commonly used. A version a English that omits such words is an artifical construct, used nowhere. Anyone wishing to advocate a new dialect of English that avoids words with more than one spelling, should have it accepted outside of Knowledge (XXG) before attempting to lay it down here.
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If you want to take the position that "white guilt" is a specific academic concept and the "white guilt" that Sunny is talking about is merely a colloquialism and not substantially the same subject, please provide your reasoning, but at first glance that does not appear to be the case.--
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there have been more recent recriminations about not accepting more refugees when they could have been saved. A cynical take would be that Israel was created to have a place to dump European refugees so that the countries of Europe and the Americas would not have to deal with them all.
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White Guild seems to be part of a certain type of rassistic thinking, where people classify humans by race. There is nothing about this in the article. The article would benefit from helping to understand the psychology of this phenomena better, as independent of ideology as possible.
2483:) restored a section that they claimed to already be in the article, and was removed, thus the restoration. They, however, did not provide any diffs to the removal, nor could I digging through the history. Can the IP editor, or somebody else, please help me verify this? Thanks.
1132:. Test the water out in the open if you believe there is consensus to create a dialect of Knowledge (XXG) English in which words with multiple spellings are deprecated. And be sure to explain fully why you are replacing any words you replace. You might also replace the word
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I'm trying to find the reference, but reconcilliation Australia Chair Jackie Huggins (an Aboriginal Australian) has on more than one occasion stated words to the effect that "nobody is expecting white people to feel guilty." Moreover, you can see, quite obviously, in this
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use of such synonyms. I intend to open discussion on it shortly and would have done so quite some time back had not other matters about the MoS been raised. But if you believe in what you are doing, then do it also for all words with multiple spellings in the articles at
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Spanierman, L. B., Poteat, V. P., Wang, Y.-F., & Oh, E. (2008). Psychosocial costs of racism to White counselors: Predicting various dimensions of multicultural counseling competence. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 55, 75–88. doi:10.1037/0022-0167.55.1.75
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Thackrah, R. D., & Thompson, S. C. (2013). "Friendly Racism" and White Guilt: Midwifery Students' Engagement with Aboriginal Content in Their Program. Forum On Public Policy Online, 2013(2), Forum on Public Policy Online, 2013, Vol.2013(2). Retrieved from:
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which definitely violate neutrality rules. Citations of quotes from various pundits who tout a rejection of "White Guilt" would make this article more neutral and accountable, by putting names and faces behind the vague passive voice used in the article at
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Powell, A. A., Branscombe, N. R., & Schmitt, M. T. (2005). Inequality as ingroup privilege or outgroup disadvantage: The impact of group focus on collective guilt and interracial attitudes. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 31, 508 –521.
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People - i removed "white european", since all native europeans (including both north, east, south, and west europeans) are white. I also added arabs, since most arabs are white, and since arabs account for over 55% of historical african slavery.
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white is not a concept that exists independent of context. whether or not fair-skinned jews are considered white depends on which part of the world they are. a test to see if they might be considered white is whether or not they are extended
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There are many examples of Caucasian Amercians showing kindness or compassion for Black folk, even during Slavery and throughout history. Few have anything to do with "guilt". This is the most ridiculous idea I've heard in a long time.
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Garriott, P. O., Reiter, S., & Brownfield, J. (2016). Testing the efficacy of brief multicultural education interventions in white college students. Journal Of Diversity In Higher Education, 9(2), 158-169. doi:10.1037/a0039547
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I don't see a single unlikely claim. It all appears to be neutral and uncontroversial statements which few would disagree with. Of course, it needs proper sourcing, but I don't see the need for a second "orange-level" warning box.
1456:, that expectations of a "sorry" statement (amongst other expectations) do not necessarily come with an expectation of feelings of guilt by white Australians (read the bit about Jackie Huggins on the topic). Quite the contrary.
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this entire article to me screams "reverse" racism and racist point of view. the concept of "white guilt" probably does desesrve an article, but this article is so corrupted and biased, it needs to be completely rewritten IMO.
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Is it accurate for the article to describe "white guilt" entirely as a response to "past oppression" rather than (at least in some white people) a psychological reaction to recognition of white privilege in the present?
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It should be noted on the page that not all European countries were involved in the African slave trade. In fact the nationals of a number of European countries have no ancestral ties to the African slave trade at all.
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Swim, J. K., & Miller, D. L. (1999). White guilt: Its antecedents and consequences for attitudes toward affirmative action. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 25, 500–514. doi: 10.1177/0146167299025004008
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Spanierman, L. B., & Heppner, M. J. (2004). Psychosocial Costs of Racism to Whites scale (PCRW): Construction and initial validation. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 51, 249–262. doi:10.1037/0022-0167.51.2.249
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Iyer, A., Leach, C. W., & Crosby, F. J. (2003). White guilt and racial compensation: The benefits and limits of self-focus. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 29, 117–129. doi:10.1177/0146167202238377
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Soble, J. R., Spanierman, L. B., & Liao, H. (2011). Effects of a brief video intervention on White university students' racial attitudes. Journal Of Counseling Psychology, 58(1), 151-157. doi:10.1037/a0021158
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Will we be receiving an apology from Blacks for the coastal raids on European countries in past centuries? Or how about their attempts at ethnic cleansing through mass immigration? If that isn't colonisation...
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policy, nor has anybody raised any factual inaccuracies in the article. I'm removing the "totallydisputed" tag, which is inappropriate if NPOV and accuracy problems haven't been identified on the Talk page. —
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I have no intention of wasting my time trying to verify community consensus of something already in the MoS. If you disagree with it and want to test the acceptance of it, then you do the work, not someone
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http://web.a.ebscohost.com.libproxy.sdsu.edu/ehost/detail/detail?vid=3&sid=7d516da3-e601-4b42-9a13-3627c9795136%40sessionmgr4007&bdata=JnNpdGU9ZWhvc3QtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#db=eric&AN=EJ1047846
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they are not saying that the words or term “white guilt” do not exist. They’re saying the thing itself, white guilt, does not exist. But they can still say “And what I say doesn’t exist, white guilt,
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in a articles about the colors/colours. I will hold back reverting here for a day or two to watch the results. If you won't take up that test, then I think you should revert the text here yourself.
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Kernahan, C., & Davis, T. (2007). Changing perspective: How learning about racism influences student awareness and emotion. Teaching of Psychology, 34, 49–52. doi:10.1207/s15328023top3401_12
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Case, K. A. (2007). Raising White privilege awareness and reducing racial prejudice: Assessing diversity course effectiveness. Teaching of Psychology, 34, 231–235. doi:10.1080/00986280701700250
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Should not the jews be included in list of groups that have had violence perpetrated against them by the whites? Jewish people make white people feel more guilty than any of the other groups.
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In conclusion this article seems to be a bit superficial and not backed much by research. Especially research from uninvolved (hence more objective) third parties like China, Africa and such
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At the very least, in a latter version, could we see a recognition of the distinction between calls for guilt and calls for "sorry"? Clearly such a distinction is present in public debate.
985:--- Is it really necessary to put personal problems into Wiki? Even on talk pages. Selfblaming is a serious thing. I am too far away to be an attending psychiatrist. But I was scared.
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I have also removed the ref to "Sociology, Psychology and Cognitive Science" because white guilt is not a theoretical concept used primarily by academics in those three fields.--
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The Exodus Myth is nothing more than a myth created to demonstrate the power of their God. There is no historical basis to their alleged enslavement by the Egyptians. Know this.
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That particular part of the MoS is one not generally observed and (in my opinion) horrible advice. It probably would not have survived until now if it had said anything beyond "
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seems to not have this (most larger human civilizations had slavery and occupations in their past and therefore it should be 'human guild' but apparently it isn't. Or is it?).
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1863:. Unless some reliable sources can be found that specifically describe these points as criticism of the concept of white guilt, they should be removed from the article. --
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Are there any credible sources for this or is this just an editorial? In Portugal there have been no requests for reparations, but that might just be for the lack of
2851:. It is words or terms that refer, but this article is not about words or a term; instead, this article is about the thing itself, white guilt. That’s what our cited
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2254:—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Knowledge (XXG) has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true."
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The banner says "Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page." Where is the relevant discussion? Until somebody starts one, the banner is inappropriate. —
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that "black people had slavery, too," is not acceptable per WP policy, unless it appears in some reliable source that is critical of the concept of white guilt).
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This section needs to be reworded or considered for removal, especially if citations cannot be made soon. The section is loaded with "loaded language" such as
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Sure, that makes sense. Many more than just the ADL have discussed the term's racist history, but its connection to white guilt specifically isn't intuitive.
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is too nebulous a concept and is generally dismissed by everyone except a few "intellectuals" as being just so much PC garbage left over from the 1990's.
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Plus half of the Portguese aren't white anyway. A sizeable number of them would be descended from the black slavers who raided European coastlines.
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Attempted to fix this op-ed piece, um i mean article. I figured since the whole thing is somebody's opinion might as well throw my opinion in too.--
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Indeed, jewish people deserve the guilt of a society that is frequently anti-semitic; however, your second statement reeks of privilege and bias.
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Encarta Dictionary: Non-white]]: "sometimes considered offensive". You will find almost no "given" racial term not sometimes considered offensive.
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This page was in British English since the first major writing by Iota. It should so stay by Knowledge (XXG) policy, unless at some times another
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Post-war guilt was at its strongest after 1945. The First World war also caused a decline in nationalism, at least in Europe and North America.
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How would you name the call of the Archbishop of Canterbury for Brits to pay reparations to descendants of slaves living in Britain? --
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The Gary Younge quote "It won’t close the pay gap, " links to the page about the gender pay gap. I attempted to change it to link to
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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What makes you think that affirmative action was devised to deal with "White Guilt"? Ever heard of Social Justice/Equal Oportunity?
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Should it be mentioned that several people have suggested that white guilt directly led to the election of Barack Hussein Obama?
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to allow for any indemnities to be payed. this is a nice op-ed piece, but other than that, I'm not too sure. Just my 2 euro-cents
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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how white guilt affects society at an institutional level. Please do add them if you know more on this subject.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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refers also to native Americans and native south-east Asians. Nor deoes avoidance of common words like
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questions about if and how to make amends for the historical and present inequities between races.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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No, it's not accurate. It's the opinion of the author, and it has no place on Knowledge (XXG).
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Jews were the slaves of Egyptians for an insane amount of time, they are darker than jews.
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says that the term is used by white supremacists as a synonym of the pre-existing phrase "
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I support this change. Criticism would be fine if it had sources to give it some context.
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1104:. There are plenty of synonyms for "people of color". Why not just use "non-white people"?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=White_guilt&diff=765910563&oldid=755332192
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I never claimed otherwise. I said that "non-white" is more neutral, not totally neutral.
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To anticipate and hopefully quash a potential objection here: Saying that “White guilt
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=White_guilt&diff=prev&oldid=348393349
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i took out the criticism part because it was just a quote from some random person
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hidden under "non-white" confuses matters to whatever extent these terms overlap.
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of this article disputed on the Talk page? And what are the specific complaints?
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revision is necessary and those involved agree on a change. The use of the word
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Rotherham Scandal? That might make it a more internationalist article as well
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are discussing—-white guilt itself and not words or terms—-and so to abide by
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article, as "people of color" most commonly refers to black people only.
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sunny hundal is not an RS. it is an assertion without any back up.
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Post-war guilt is something that ought to have a separate article.
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No, I am not saying that, Knowledge (XXG) policy is saying that:
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Nobody has explained why this article violates Knowledge (XXG)'s
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If this is an issue for anyone, let ,e know and we can discuss.
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White guilt or WASP guilt rather? A relic of american slavery?
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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Should it not be mentioned that Sunny Hundal is not white?
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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resent being blamed for events they had nothing to do with
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests
2847:, this edit brings that first Lead sentence in line with
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http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561532135/nonwhite.html
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whether or not one considers Middle Easterners white. --
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directly, terms should be given in such a way that they
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1090:, not to ban the word, which would hardly be neutral.
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That usage is also inaccurate in this context in which
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I slightly modified the lead to be in accordance with
2091:"Post-war guilt" is a phrase often used in Britain.
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904:. Please replace this template with a more specific
816:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment
712:
Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action
503:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
395:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
306:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
2613:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2246:"The threshold for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) is
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2296:Skin color is no indication of reliability, so no.
2950:C-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
2591:http://streams.wpsx.psu.edu/White_Guilt10102.html
727:Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention
717:Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
2196:The Guardian is the RS - are you implying that
1082:Knowledge (XXG)'s neutrality is to accept both
2599:This message was posted before February 2018.
693:of articles within the scope of this project.
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2046:Maybe I wasn't clear. Where exactly are the
830:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject African diaspora
1130:Knowledge (XXG):Featured article candidates
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2746:http://dx.doi.org/10.1177/0146167204271713
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2113:"Post-imperial guilt" is sometimes used.
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2821:2A02:A03F:6B8E:EE00:F0C6:CC8C:4F45:87E6
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2519:I am inclined to say that the word “
2461:2601:C9:C001:1654:803:5B18:8E83:A459
2181:activism pov AND not just a pundit.
810:This article is within the scope of
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1123:a consistent synonym" and actually
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2960:Low-importance psychology articles
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623:Template:WikiProject Ethnic groups
539:project-independent quality rating
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2813:anglo-white american population
2573:. Please take a moment to review
917:Openverse Creative Commons Search
50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
3000:Knowledge (XXG) requested images
2020:What part. What do you dispute?
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2138:Another: "postcolonial guilt".
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955:Arabs and Europeans and white
824:and see a list of open tasks.
614:and see a list of open tasks.
511:and see a list of open tasks.
403:and see a list of open tasks.
314:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
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2566:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1567:*smirk* To say the least.
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2316:What's wrong about that?
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1044:adults with disabilities
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2383:But Obama is white...
2156:criticism: Sunny Hundal
415:Discrimination articles
2525:Anti-Defamation League
2335:It's pointless trivia.
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237:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
100:Neutral point of view
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1546:What about the jews?
1332:redirects to, says:
1324:I just noticed that
923:and other web sites.
105:No original research
2601:After February 2018
2261:The Red Pen of Doom
2209:The Red Pen of Doom
1879:Proper tea is theft
1865:Proper tea is theft
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1026:other nouns. Thus,
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900:in this article to
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668:Here are some open
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2655:InternetArchiveBot
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2203:a wikipedia editor
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19:This is the
2571:White guilt
2485:Boomer Vial
2358:—Preceding
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1677:—Preceding
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1493:—Preceding
1429:Bigplankton
1415:TensionWind
1125:recommended
894:White guilt
148:free images
31:not a forum
25:White guilt
2919:Categories
2662:Report bug
2493:References
2312:Blind side
2282:2.30.78.37
2049:neutrality
1892:futurebird
1523:common law
1499:203.3.65.1
1437:What about
1247:A link to
1036:gay people
890:photograph
679:Place the
514:Psychology
505:Psychology
458:Psychology
2845:WP:REFERS
2841:WP:REFERS
2835:WP:REFERS
2772:ConMadden
2684:Scibaby97
2645:this tool
2638:this tool
2226:Stoneself
2183:Stoneself
2168:Stoneself
1795:Rmilligan
1648:Stoneself
1556:Rmilligan
1299:non-white
689:template
317:Sociology
308:sociology
264:Sociology
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2817:unsigned
2706:unsigned
2692:contribs
2680:unsigned
2651:Cheers.—
2548:Grayfell
2533:Jeff5102
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1409:present.
1121:consider
1066:produce
940:Revising
898:included
201:April 11
197:deletion
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2785:Pay Gap
2575:my edit
2140:Equinox
1914:In the
1807:Rewrite
1358:Darrien
1326:Colored
1188:Darrien
1110:Darrien
1024:qualify
854:on the
672:tasks:
644:on the
555:on the
461:C‑class
433:on the
344:on the
235:B-class
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2871:XYZ.”
2250:, not
2008:BGMNYC
1825:BGMNYC
1513:Souces
1444:Molobo
1303:Jallan
1146:Jallan
1138:colour
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1088:colour
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1064:colour
1046:, not
1038:, not
1032:blacks
1030:, not
1008:blacks
972:BGMNYC
930:Upload
921:Flickr
241:scale.
126:Google
2853:WP:RS
2417:Stalk
2337:radek
2252:truth
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2024:Yahel
1947:: -->
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1160:else.
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886:image
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
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1521:and
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1295:also
1205:See
1086:and
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999:---
976:talk
911:The
732:Iyer
211:was
205:2007
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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547:Low
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