Talk:T-34 - Knowledge (XXG)

707: 2431:. Factual statements of production and losses make perfect sense, but attempting to judge the merits of the tank based on its combat performance cannot be done without drawing in the poor doctrine, lousy training, low morale, poor logistics, inexperience at high levels of command etc etc of the force that fielded it. A well-designed tank remains well-designed even if employed by idiots. I've restated the loss details to reflect this approach, merely stating that many were built and many were destroyed by the Germans, without attempting to draw any wider conclusions. The later sections do a good job of addressing concrete shortcomings with specific details that explain how the Germans were able to destroy so many, but of course that level of detail doesn't belong in a lead. 3899:

well-photographed T-34 (L-11 Gun) abandoned in Lvov/Lviv, western Ukrainian SSR, of which two photographs can be found on page 107. However, we are inclined to agree that a more plausible reason for carrying the transmission on the back of the tank was the evacuation of a valuable spare part as concluded by Christian Mulsow in ‘The First T-34 Birth of a Legend : T-34 Model 1940’ (Erlangen: Tankograd, 2019), p. 121, because it was, indeed, a complicated job to replace the transmission." I've looked and there don't seem to be any other pictures of T-34s carrying transmissions anywhere. I suspect this will be a pain to recognise as a myth, though, since there's a ton of literature that repeated it, but hopefully we can get ahead of the curve on this page. Thoughts?

1737:

T-34M so the idea had been around since 1940, but the war suggested, correctly, to the USSR that they should concentrate on producing thousands of pretty-good T-34s rather than switching production and thus suffering much smaller production numbers for a slightly-better T-34M tank. With the luxury of winning the war, they could go back to designing nice new tanks. You're correct that the T-44 was developed to counter the Panther. Nothing 'ironic' about it - what else would you expect the Red Army to do? The notion that it was a wholly-new design is simply contradicted by the facts. It was rejected for mass production precisely *because* it wasn't a big enough leap ahead; it could not carry the desired 100mm gun. Thus the T-54 was developed almost immediately.

1759:

On the other point, I said 'ironically' because the Panther was designed in response to the T34/76, and the T44 was designed in response to the Panther ("What else would you expect the Red Army to do"? I would expect to do as they were told and take the tank the designers gave them, of course!!). As for the designers, they improved the NEW design of the T44 and came up with the T54, THATS the real reason the T44 didn't last long in production. Further, I include the comment about similarly-shaped turrets to demonstrate the fallacy of some of your arguments trying to justify your opinion the T44 was little more than an improved T34. With Respects, Andy L

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rather than compromise sophistication and the intended quality. So their quality stays high, then production suffers (lots of queued up tanks outside factories, all with the same critical component missing) and finally they stop getting anything useful to the front. German optics kept specifying the same glass alloys, even when the rare earths were no longer available. The British compromised, lost some low-light performance, but kept good sights appearing. The Russians filed notches in the empty mounts and hoped. We all know about German large-size gear cutting for final drives in 1945.

2435:

vastly more efficient than German industry in terms of mass production, and then there are the separate issues of lend-lease and the western bombing campaign against German industry, all of which further muddy the waters. In this light, it would be best to avoid much in the way of implication that the design of the T-34 itself was responsible for the fact that the Soviets had more of them than the Germans had other tanks without direct cites to back it up, as it should be obvious that this is but one unquantifiable factor in the much larger story of comparative Soviet/Nazi production.

4142:"Legendary" or "influential" don't actually mean "one of the best", like "legendary" simply means famous, which makes sense considering that it formed the backbone of Soviet armoured forces for most of the war. "Best" is also highly vague, it can mean best design, or best in actual performance, or best bang-for-buck. We generally don't have that kind of vague statements in leads of military equipment articles, objective facts (main Soviet tank during majority of Eastern Front, most produced tank of the WW II, influential design etc.) are simply more encyclopedic.-- 2157:

individual components of that force were), and sloppy terminology ("strategic" is incorrect; the Germans were terrible at strategy, which is why they launched a two-front war and declared war on the US as sugar on top after being beaten the same way the first time around - "operational" is the correct terminology here to refer to the clear German superiority in mass, wide-front combat, as used in modern military writing). The rest was just removing references to other tanks because this is an article on the T-34, not Soviet armour and armoured warfare in general.

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You say "The T-44 was an obvious follow-on to the T-34-85 and shared quite a few components"; I say the early M1 Abrams was the obvious follow-on to the M60A3TTS, and shared similar components, including the main tank gun; does that mean the M1 was based on the M60? Would you say the Chieftain was an evolutionary development of the Centurion? No. They were clean-sheet designs, as was the T44, which was longer, wider, lower, and more powerful than the T34, and was, ironically given the Panthers genesis, designed to defeat this German tank.

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impossible to fight, the manufacture quality of many of the components varied from excellent to abysmal (for example the radiator). The later T-34/85 introduced a larger three-man turret, but many of the vehicles earlier flaws remained the same. There were several attempts to introduce changes to the basic design, the most notable being the T34M which included a switch to torsion-bar suspension, and the T-43 which introduced heavier armour; however the main impetus was a demand for a larger caliber gun and such programs were terminated.

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January 2013 (UTC) Its potentially confusing when you consider the usage "T-54/55" , which refers to the T-54 and T-55 series of tanks, not to a T-54 armed with a 55mm gun ;) DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:54, 31 January 2013 (UTC) Fair point. We're not doing that on this page, tho, are we? (Are we? ;p ) TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 17:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC) The Slash comes from Finnish sources. For example the infantry rifle M/28-30, or submachine gun M/31. 69.60.229.207 (talk) 03:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

255: 985: 469: 953: 667: 3461:-- Ah, I'm glad someone else noticed this. I checked out the page referenced in citation - it has the statement about the cost being reduced pretty much 1:1 to how it appears in this article, but the other claims in this paragraph are not present. I moved the citation to the correct sentence and added 'citation needed' thingies to the other lines, since I truly can't figure out where this information is coming from. ---173.251.90.109 ( 1066: 578: 1045: 543: 278: 4305:- roughly a year prior the American "evaluation." Now, perhaps the American engineers were not aware of this - they can't be blamed, they were evaluating the tanks in front of them. But why in the world did the very non-American General Khlopov feel it was necessary to put this down as a recommendation in his "report?" Not just any recommendation - this thing that had been done a year prior needed to be done "quickly!" 969: 4278:- the sample size for this apparent analysis is a grand total of two tanks. Is this really the best available source to discuss the pros and cons of one of the most prolific tanks in history? Especially given the wide variability in production methods and approaches in the early models, weighing this source to this extent is questionable. Even if it had no other faults - and oh boy, does it have faults. 1017: 1076: 838: 225: 588: 407: 910: 899: 888: 877: 2934:. That's what we should be striving for in every article: well-written, detailed, and well-sourced. Now I was more than happy to remove two-thirds of the section concerning the T-34's use in the Angolan Civil War. But cutting it down to five short sentences is, I feel, detrimental to the article at large and goes far beyond trimming excessive fat. -- 778: 735: 4366:"the gun sights are the best in the world. Incomparable to any currently known worldwide or currently developed in America". Thus they're not arguing about quality per say, their may be a million reasons as to why the sights are the best in the world, reasons as simple as its crude production allows for cheaper production. 866: 2660: 4337:- at the translation of a transcription of report of the General Khlopov on the in-progress trials. Despite some determined searching in Russian and English sources - I have not been able to find a trace of the original document from Khlopov - only this transcriptions, copied endlessly from blog-post to blog-post. 2268:

edits, I have spent whole summers in Poland on research and language training; the aircraft was invented quite some time ago. Yes, I began editing the T-34 article in Poland. If you are interested in a tiresome digression on the nature of the Polish government in exile during WWII, I can provide that.

4402:

He was spreading myths with this statement. German tanks were no more complex than the others, apart from the running gear. The Germans did improve their war industry, see the Panther cost as much as a Panzer IV. And this is the best.....as an ACADEMIC historian he is missing 2 important things: One:

4224:

I may not be a professional in this, but German generals praising the tank, when literally 50% of all T-34s did not make through WW2, were all deployed in the eastern front. This feels like those German generals were trying to say "We didn't fail strategically and tactically, they had superior tanks,

3364:

If no sources for the T-34 armour which describes the different models, and their technical data based on a larger sample size than 2 can be found, at least it should be mentioned that this is the case. Currently, this section reads as if the Aberdeen tests are authoritative of all T-34s when that is

2450:

I agree with you in principle, a lot of that is OT for the T-34. I'm concerned the simplification creates a misleading impression the tank itself is at fault. It may not be for this page to deal with issues of Red Army doctrine or Sov & German production, but it needs to be dealt with somewhere.

2434:

Similarly, I've separated the fact that the tank was constantly modified as the war went on to make it cheaper/easier to build from the fact that the Soviets fielded far more tanks than the Germans. You simply cannot make this kind of conclusion without mixing apples and oranges: Soviet industry was

2198:

Yes, the original edit with the alphabet soup IP was by me. I used two accounts because I live a double life as a member of SMERSH, which is why I confessed to being both IPs in public as soon as it became troublesome, thus helping pursue my agenda not at all. Now that you have found me out, please

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I do not live in Kansas, and have not posted from Kansas; I'm not even an American, so i have no idea why that IP reports as being from Kansas (nor do I much care, even if I'm willing to grant you the benefit of the doubt that you managed a proper IP trace). I am currently in Canada. As for Polish

1758:

Seriously? Similar turret, completely new hull (wider, lower) completely new suspension and running gear (given a wider hull, how else?), completely new transmission, similar engine in completely new layout, and you insist this isn't a new design? Your definitions and mine obviously differ somewhat!

1736:

The T-34-85 and T-44 shared the same main gun, very similar turret, identical engines, and identical road wheels and tracks. The main differences were that the T-44 had torsion-bar suspension and a transversely-mounted engine with a new transmission. Torsion-bar suspension was also the intent on the

1720:

Sorry but you are quite wrong. The T44 was a clean-sheet design; yes, it had a similar turret to the T34 but it doesn't mean anything. The M8 armoured car, T17 armoured car, and Medium Tank M3 all had very similar, almost identical turrets for their 37mm gun, but they were in no way related designs.

4325:

While on the topic of consistency, I'll note with interest that the unambiguously glowing characterization of the T-34's optics as "the best in the world" did not seem interesting enough to include in the current wiki article. If the source is good - why only pull in the information that negatively

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Quote: "The armor components of the T-34 tank, with the exception of the bow casting which was unheat-treated, were heat-treated to very high hardnesses (430-500 Brinell), probably in an attempt to secure maximum resistance to penetration by certain classes of armor-piercing projectiles even at the

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Hi Binks, long time no speak. I am using WP sources here from already existing articles, which all appear stable. I wanted to generate a quick discussion which seems to be in progress. I reverted myself so as not to start a dumb edit war and our IP colleague is participating. Sources for what 'high

3637:

had a 2000 FPS muzzle velocity. It would seem that even the earliest Soviet armament was the best of the Allied tank guns, which were in majority use till at least mid 1944. I suspect it's current definition is around 2500 FPS but from cursory google searches this definition seems to be for handgun

3360:

The armour section uses sources such as the Pantherfibel and Aberdeen trials. Which is fine if they are balanced and contributing to a larger picture. However they are not. The Aberdeen trial only shows 2 examples of war-weary T-34 1941 version tanks. That is not representative of all tanks of that

2515:

Having said that, the Soviet and Russian usage is T-34-85, not T-34/85. This usage has been adopted much more commonly in newer English-language sources than T-34/85. The T-34/85 usage is a bit dated and, I'd guess, probably derived from the German usage of T-34/76 (a designation not generally used

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In theory Diesel should be a tad harder to ignite than gasoline but once ignited Diesel burns more fiercely than Gasoline. Fuel fumes/vapors are always more dangerous than pure fuel, regardless of the fuel type. I don't think Diesel significantly (or at all) reduced the risk of fire in a tank, only

4029:

Your addition to the infobox has now been reverted by three separate users (four, if we include the same edit to T-64), making it quite clear that consensus is against your change. As you are making the change, it is your responsibility to use the talk page to get consensus for your edits, not the

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I have the book. On the topic of who came up with the A-32 design and its name, at page 23 is says that the A-20 (tracked) (later renamed to A-32 according to page 25) was not developed by Bureau #24 (Koshkin) on their own accord, as the NKOP explicitly ordered the development of a tracked tank on

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I don't think that would be enough for me to make changes in the article, I don't own and haven't read his book, I'm not sure if a Youtube video would be considered a reliable source, and there are citations for the claims in the article, so I figured I'd just put this in the talk page rather than

3446:

Not that I doubt that workers were treated badly, but if production time and complexity of assembly were also reduced, it is a bit strange to ascribe the reduction in cost to "underpaying & overworking" - that would suggest that these issues developed from 1941 to 1943 and were the only, or at

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Air filters - apparently, the Americans (in 1943) felt that the "Pomon" filters used in the Model 1941 T-34 didn't do anything. They recommended this terrible deficiency be fixed - and General Khlopov took this recommendation seriously enough to put it into his alleged report. The current article

3934:

An edit I made removing content from this article was reverted so I'm going to "repropose" my edit. The edit was the removal of the final 4 sentences of the General Reliablity section due to it being sourced from a CIA document. In general you can't just quote a CIA document directly as these are

3595:

While the 76.2 mm gun on the T-34 was no howitzer, it was also by no means a "high velocity tank gun"... it was more of a medium-velocity dual-use gun like the similarly-calibered 75 mm US and British guns. The two different 75 mm guns on the Panzer IV and Panther, as well as the two different US

2975:

With respect, I strongly disagree with your edits and urge you again (third or fourth time I think) to create a new, separate article. If you cannot see by now that this is undue weight for a WW2 tank with something like 50,000 examples produced, I don't know what I can write to convince you. The

2271:

I'm still waiting to hear how this increasingly Machiavellian scheme of mine to make tone edits to an article on an obsolete Soviet tank is supposed to play out. Especially the part where my public, uncoerced admission of making edits from two different computers somehow aids in my plans to take

2097:

I checked Zaloga's book as given in the quote. It appears that its exactly the same as we have it here or had. I don't know, its up to you to decide. Zaloga speaks of "tactical and strategic" skills, and that the older tanks in the corps were in poor shapes aswell next to the new T-34. So I would

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Over two years, the unit production cost of the T-34 was reduced from 269,500 rubles in 1941, to 193,000, and then to 135,000. This was achieved by underpaying & overworking all the factory workers. Through this time, the workers were treated as little more than slaves. At the same time, its

2426:

In short, I'm trying to keep the article as focused on the T-34 as possible. Multiple times over its life there have crept in various amounts of info on the Red Army's fighting abilities and Soviet production capabilities, which have in turn been enmeshed in descriptions of the tank so that all

1698:

Further I must point out one more error; "Its evolutionary development led directly to the T-54/55 series of tanks, and from there to the T-62, T-72, and T-90 tanks..." is simply not true. The design lineage of the T-34 began with the T-34/76 and ended with the T-34/85. The T-54/55 and T62 trace

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The Soviet army was unhappy with the overall layout of the T-34 (later T-34/76) right from the start. The Christie-type (note: NOT Christie, the T-34 could NOT be run on its road wheels) suspension took up excessive internal space, the two-man turret was too cramped and made the tank essentially

4647:

Yes, German tanks were more complex than others. This is a well-known claim if we compare something like the profile cutting of T-34 armour, or the complexity of the German track pin design. But the point is that Germany started out complex, stayed complex, and let their production rate suffer,

4073:

In any case, I was trying to convey to the reader that this tank was very, very significant. If you have suggestions for how that sentiment could be improved I would be satisfied. Before my addition, the first sentence was blasé and underwhelming. Let's keep the reader interest level up without

3520:

I agree that it's best to wait until people have a copy of the book in hand. The video states that the book uses direct primary sourcing, so it sounds as though it would be reliable. At the same time, Amazon does not have it listed for release until 4 March 2020, and a review of the book by a

2522:

I prefer T-34/85 for clarity's sake. IMO it doesn't leave questions (or as many, anyhow) about what's referred to. (Maybe informed by hot rodder practise...) I'm not so wedded to it I'd demand it, & I do agree a consistent use is preferable. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 01:11, 26

2464:

Agreed, but I feel the article itself, in the appropriate subsections, already does a fine job of tackling those issues. For example, the Operation Barbarossa section talks about the German discomfort in facing it, the powerful effect it had, and then details why and how so many were destroyed

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On another note, the removal of all information pertaining to the T-34's use by Cuba, UNITA, and SWAPO is also problematic, as I feel that information should've been moved to separate sections concerning Cuban and non-state actor service, respectively, as opposed to being axed from the article

3652:

I think 2500 FPS makes sense, as the two 75 mm guns and the T-34's 76 mm guns are more "medium velocity", while guns like the 17 pounder, the gun on the Panther, and the US 76 mm tank guns are "high velocity". As for the 75s on the Panzer IV, the earlier ones are basically howitzers and thus

2156:

I made the original edit. I would think the reasoning is clear. There was a mixture of unencyclopedic terminology ("malignancy", "infected"), poor scope wording ("annihilation of the Soviet tank force": the tank forces took heavy losses, but were obviously not wiped out completely, even if

1705:

I must differ with your last point. The T-44 was an obvious follow-on to the T-34-85 and shared quite a few components. The turret design, while 'new', was very close to the T-34-85 turret. The major difference was the transversely-mounted engine (same as the T-34) and transmission, and the

3140:

An article on 'Postwar Employment of the T-34' would be a good way to restore balance to this article while providing enough content for a very good, interesting article. Such an article could have as much content on various conflicts as sources can support. I want to reiterate this content

3898:

I've recently come to believe that the notion T-34s went into battle with a spare transmission is a myth. The first time I seriously began questioning it was when I read the Errata for Pulham and Kerrs' T-34 Shock. It brings some good point: "Reinterpretation of evidence: We refer to the

2908:

Likewise, by that logic the Korean War section is also much too long. Either axe that down to two paragraphs also or leave the Angolan one alone. There is no reason the Korean section is any more significant than that on the Angolan conflict.With respect, I strongly disagree with your

4369:

As to using Aberdeen, I agree with you that it probably shouldn't be used too much, we should use reliable historians that cite Aberdeen themselves. This however would take tremendous amount of work to get a similar result to the current article. Thus its probably (?) fine the way it

1797:

Under China it says: "After the formation of the People's Republic of China (the PRC) in 1949, the Soviet Union sent many T-34s and T-34-85s to the PRC's People's Liberation Army (the PLA)." As I understand it the USSR has not sent any T-34/76s to China. Granted, I've got this from

3172:

postwar deployments of the T-34 (as opposed to merely say, Angola or Korea) is actually not a bad idea. That would have enough material and references to make a complete, quality page capable of standing on its own. I'll probably start work on a draft of one in my userspace soon.

2814:

It now appears to be shorter and significantly less detailed than the section on the Korean War. So I think too much content was removed; unless the latter section is also too long and excessively detailed I would've thought reducing it to about the size of that one would've been

2322:

with the IP: 2001:56A:F106:6500:D58D:D2FA:F09C:45E8 from Kansas, while on his user page, he's saying the IP 94.232.219.141 belongs also to him. So a provider can not give a IP from Poland and Kansas at same time. He's using some software to hide his IP or somehting like that.

3053:

Furthermore, I have purposefully refrained from edit warring (and, in the spirit of Knowledge (XXG), will continue to do so). I have yet to explicitly revert any of your edits, but rather contested them here or suggested a compromise, and I am pleased to note you have done

1965:

There is a lot of unfounded claims creeping in. It happens over time Bogdan, you know we can't be here 24/7, and all eds can get sloppy sometimes. I would like to see a book source either confirming or denying it. Google books. There's probably a million books on there.

1008: 976: 757: 749: 716: 561: 3010:. Perhaps you find this philosophy peculiar, but I do hold any articles I create to very high standards: If I'm not absolutely certain I can do a separate, quality article right, I won't take a chance on it at all. Surely that's not an unreasonable or dogmatic position. 2082:

Destruction is the same as annihilation so that should be ok. Strategic I think is not the right term. Thats too broad. We are looking for something above tactical but below strategic. Operational fits ok. Also said that the early bugs were not fixed. That ok? Simon

4293:

That sentence alone should cause anyone with actually knowledge of tanks throw the whole thing into the bin and light it on fire. For Pete's sake, the very wiki article itself points out several times that the optics of the T-34 were of mediocre quality at best.

1831:

In the lead is claimed: "Its choice of diesel engine power extended its range, and made it more difficult to brew up when it was hit." without source. Diesel was not more difficul to brew up as gasoline. I don't know were that myth coming from. Check that link:

2337:

I said yesterday's edit from the crazy-long IP was mine, but you're the one saying it's from Kansas, not me. And as any quick look at the date logs will tell you, the last edit made using the Polish IP was in 2013. Pro-tip: 2013 and 2015 are different years.

3155:(Driveby edit) I'd suggest more weight to Korea is apt, given its historical significance. As for "too little material for a page", have you seen how stubby some are? Start it & let those who may know (or want) more add it. Better that than just delete. 4403:

Germans were bombed to smithereens by 1944, production declined. NOT because of tank design. Second: the Soviets built more factories and BIGGER factories: production increased. The cost of a T-34 in 1945 was not much less than that of a Panther.

2112:

Made a longer change to reliability of the Sov armour stock that you may like. I think operational is better, because its not a quote, and I think the IP was copying direct from Z. So this avoids too close paraphrasing which would be copyvio.

3984:

Not touching on anything that may or may not occur with current the conflict in Ukraine, shouldn't Russia still be considered a ceremonial operator of the T-34? Given that the mobile column of the Moscow victory day parade contains the tank.

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On the topic of undue weight, I will again draw your attention to the section on the Korean War. Do you also perceive that section to be unduly weighty? If so, why has it persisted on this article for so long without attracting scrutiny

4000:"Operator" means use as a regular piece of weaponry by the Armed Forces. Use in ceremonies alone does not mean that a country "operates" the tank since tanks used in such circumstances do not have to be combat-ready or -able. Regards 2230:

Good luck with your noble crusade to prevent internet service providers from assigning different IPs to different computers. I shall be on the sidelines, waving a cloth to signify my favour as you tilt with the dreaded Sir Windmill.

2053:

I agree that the word "Malignancies" sounds wrong placed, but as I recall correctly, the 4th and 6th mechanised corps were completely destroyed. So, the wording "The annihilation of the Soviet tank force" might be chosen correctly.

4317:

However, the Review of Soviet Ordnance Metallurgy document also cited by the wiki article, and also referring to the very tanks at Aberdeen definitively calls out the armor as being extremely hard relative to American approaches.

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For point 1; I know the Aberdeen tests were very important in the western cannon, when the cold war started it was very hard to get Soviet vehicles, thus if I'm to guess, most reliable English sources probably relied heavily on

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batch, and it is certainly not representative of all the different models. Again, it is unknown exactly what the German Pantherfibel is based on, though probably they also had some tests of their own which I do not know off.

1997:'s right. If he really thinks this is junk, it should be removed until cited by RS. FWIW, I've seen the claim made, but it appears to be a myth, & it's actually ammo storage that's the bigger cause of the "brew-ups". 3075:

Which brings me to the subject of compromise. I feel 5 sentences is much too short for any one section in this article. You feel 19 sentences is much too long. Surely we can meet halfway on this? How about making it an

4661:

Zaloga is unimpeachable on WP, but although prolific as a writer he's primarily a historian and military tactician. He's not an engineer. If you're looking for real insights in your reading, go to Ogorkiewicz instead.

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The M8 armored car had an open-topped turret that bears virtually no resemblance to the T17 or M3 Lee. Your other comparisions are just that - comparisions - which have nothing to do with this article. Regards,

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Please, I did not demand such thing, nor do i like it. I meant they were in poor shape because of heavy attrition, not because of poor maintenance. Whatever, I don't know, if you think is correct so, leave it.

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I feel like it should be mentioned that the steel for the T-34 was annealed at 600 degrees celsius, which led to the steel being hard, but incredibly brittle. It is seen that the tank "cracks" in most photos.

2358:

For those of you breathlessly following along at home (or perhaps inclined to think Kheynom had a point in his bizarro sockpuppeting charge, or if some random account picks this up again), it turns out that

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velocity' actually means are quite elusive in the context of this discussion. I can give a source for the handgun figure if required. I will add the sources for the WP article - generated figures. Thanks

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The purported results of the examination of the T-34 by American engineers at the the Aberdeen Proving Grounds in 1943 is heavily cited in the current article - at least 6 direct citations by my count.

1951:

No, I remove it, unitl a source it placed. It can not be that one can add unfounded claims and got away scott free, while others have to grapple with it. That's not how it works and you know it Simon.

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The Angolan Civil War section now seems to be as long as all the other usage sections combined. This seems too much coverage and detail for the base article on the T-34. I have tagged it as such. (

3415:

I put those notations in because it was all that I could find. Instead of bitching and pointing fingers how about something new and do some reseach yourself! If you can't be bothered then shut up.

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expense of structural integrity under ballistic attack. The armor components of the KV-1 heavy tank were heat-treated to hardnesses more nearly approaching American practice (280-320 Brinell)"

4170:

Let's ignore for now whatever notional sources that have not yet been cited in the article. Let's focus on the text I added to the first sentence. What part of "one of the best tank designs in

2976:

content you have is genuinely interesting and well-sourced. It deserves a separate article. It is much too much for this article. I do not want to edit war, but, please, this is unreasonable.

3496:

Peter Samsonov author of Designing the T-34: Genesis of the Revolutionary Soviet Tank, claims there are a number of innaccuries in this article. He talks specifically about 3 in this video

2162:

Kheynom: do you have any actual problems with the wording besides complaints regarding the IP address (relevant how?) or how long the original material was there for (also irrelevant)?

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primary sources that have to be handled with care. To directly quote from it without the use of any secondary source in this case has most likely led to the source being misused.

1937:

So stick a cite needed tag. And ask where PIPE got the info. There must be RS for it somewhere, or one that says its crap. Either way, if it can't be backed up it should go imo.

3875:

No it's not being used in the conflict I think. It was just the Lysychansk T-34 monument's tank that was brought down. Can be identified with the red star and the number "227".

4362:

On the optics, I don't know, I tried to quickly find Aberdeen and see the reasoning given by the engineers, but alas I couldn't. However I will note the exact quote taken from

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Was the armor of the T-34 Model 1941 too soft or too hard? Because General Khlopov's report of the Aberdeen findings is very clear that the armor is too soft, and that's bad.

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T-34-85 or T-34/85 I'd like to suggest that we consistently use one or the other, and not mix both usages in the article. I suggest this mostly for the sake of good style.

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The British, for once, got this right. They listened to the Americans (because they had to) and eventually made some decent tanks. The only country where build quality

4343:- this source is not fit to cite on this page. I recommend any associated paragraphs and statements be reviewed and either removed or supported with solid information. 3395:"The USSR donated two combat-used Model 1941 T-34s to the United States for testing purposes in late 1942.The examinations, performed at the Aberdeen Proving Ground..." 3302: 3298: 3284: 4776: 3601: 837: 525: 4156:"letter of the law" ? It's a core principle of wikipedia to not include things which aren't sourced. Especially, the lead shouldn't summarize non existent content. ( 4731: 706: 4052:

This doesn't really seem to be a summary of what said in the article, which says "the Soviet corps equipped with these new tanks lost most of them within weeks".

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three inch guns and the British 17 pounder of similar caliber to the 3 inch gun on the T-34 all fired shells at FAR higher velocities. This quote needs fixing.

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I don't believe that the amount of content is sufficient to justify its own article. Certainly, I do not have as much information or sources on hand as say,

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I think it should be much more sober in tone. "Malignancies"? This is not an article about cancer. annihilation way too dramatic. I propose we reword. Simon

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Optics - according to the source, the American engineers felt that the Model 1941 T-34 had the best optics of any tank fielded or in development.

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We now have the usage "T-34/76" creeping back into the article - a designation that was never used by the Soviets. And of course "T-34/85" is back.

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anyways. The T-34/85 section covers the comparing design philosophies of the Germans and Russians as they wrestled over the upgrade question.

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least dominant, factor in that cost reduction. I would also be a bit reluctant on using a cold-war era military publisher for such a claim. --

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Or sometimes I'm at school and can't remember my account password, because Firefox saves that crap. Choose whichever explanation you prefer.

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Yes, that's right, the letter of the law should be wielded to make the lead section less representative of the topic literature in general.

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fascinates me but it is waaaay too much for this article. And FWIW yeah, I think the Korea stuff is a little long too. Thus the suggestion.

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I reduced this further. Again - very very interesting content that clearly could be its own article. But grossly overdone for this article.

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It is two different people Kheynom. IP/Palindromedairy has been a MILHIST member since 2013. All's good. No one is pissing about at least.

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Figures of notional production costs are nonsense for Germany, where there was no currency, and frequently no roof on the factory either.

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Quote: "Optic - The general opinion: the best construction in the world. Incomparable with any existing tanks or any under development."

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The trouble is that this source doesn't meeting any reasonable standards of relevance, accuracy, consistency, or reliability. It's also

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ammunition and wound ballistics. I would suggest that for 1940 a large calibre round such as a 75-76.2mm at 2200 FPS was high velocity.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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Some of the best military history articles on Knowledge (XXG) had this level of detail concerning the use of a particular tank, ie

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by the Soviets or Russians). Since this is a Soviet-era piece of equipment, not German, I suggest we use the Soviet/Russian usage.

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implies that this even had some practical impact - as the air filters were replaced with newly designed ones on the Model 1943.

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advantage of multiple accounts for nefarious purposes. Secret multiple identities don't work when they're not ... secret.

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Fair enough. (I confess, I haven't read the whole page in awhile, so I'm not confident enough to disagree strongly. :) )

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https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/war-against-ukraine/donetsk-separatists-seizes-museum-tanks-guns-354991.html

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I'd suggest T-34-85, except where it's different in a direct quotation, or being explained in the nomenclature section. (

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Can we start citing sources for these comparisons? Because simply asserting your viewpoint carries no leverage with it.

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This is largely because the information there is technically combined from two conflicts, the Angolan Civil War and the

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I'm not sure if you are allowed to have multiple accounts or even IP's. I think you should be reported, for abusing it.

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For the air filters, I think your changes are good, if you want to make more edits like that one I encourage you to be

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The reason my edit was reverted initially was due to a lack of cause given so this explanation is probably sufficient.

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Why not start a separate article? It's still much too long. E.g., imagine if we had this level of detail on WW2 usage.

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The one omission I would like to make note of is that surely the T-34 must probably be the most destroyed tank of WW2!

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Please wait for other opinions before making edits. A link is not a proxy for a consensual agreement. A blog is not a

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It may be truer to say it's upgraded version, the T-34-85 helped win against Germany once the tide turned, though. (

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Losing tanks within a few weeks could be the recipe for surviving an onslaught without panic and rout. Just sayin'.

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I'm making this a talk thing because I know someone is just going to revert my changes if I go ahead and edit it.

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I'm going to take the lack of response as implicit support for my edit due to a lack of response after 2 weeks.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant in other name: Stalin Tractor Factory or Tankograd had ALONE 60.000 worker in 1944.

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I just changed the lead to clean up some recent edits but also to address a couple of creeping scope issues.

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makes a claim with no source or whatever, but I need a source to remove that xxxx?? Something is wrong here.

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Again dealing with folks using "T-34/85" when "T-34-85" is correct and consensus on the talk page. Regards,

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it is interesting as hell but, I agree, it is undue weight in this article. Perhaps an article on its own?

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three become confusingly entangled. For example, I'd like to keep out details of how many were destroyed

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The trouble is that the Model 1943 T-34 with the upgraded "Cyclone" filters started production in May of

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reputable source would be nice as well (though not formally necessary), which would take even more time.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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replaced "affected early model T-34's at that time" with "affected Soviet tanks at that time" Or not?

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https://en.defence-ua.com/news/russians_already_use_t_34_though_not_the_way_expected_video-3540.html

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their ancestry back to the T-34s original replacement, the T-44 which was an entirely new design.

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T-34s as "liberation from nazism" monuments all around E-C Europe and their defacing in the 80-90s

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https://web.archive.org/web/20050219094927/http://www.wsowp.poznan.pl/muzeum/pages/eksponat12.htm

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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Wait, with "I made the original edit." you put the passage in or was that your edit with the IP:

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and I don't know if this is considered a legitimate source or not but I thought I'd mention it.

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I don't know what's a good source for this, but the T-34 is still being used currently in the

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Right....recent edits do not follow this however. The usage "T-34/76" should be avoided IMO.

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OK. A valid report is not a RS, jajaja. Taged as dubious, such claim is still unverifiable.

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Compare it to the MAN what's produced the MOST Panthers in WW2, had 3.383 workers in 1944.

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The lead needs to summarize the article, not potential content that isn't in the article. (

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OK, given nobody seems to care or object, I'll edit the part about 'spare' transmissions.

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Zetterling, Niklas (2000). Kursk 1943: A Statistical Analysis. London: Frank Cass. p. 61

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Everything I've written is accepted as a source on Knowledge (XXG), but I can't cite it?

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We need to define 'high velocity' and what sources suggest that this actually is. The

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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All of it. And lets not ignore the lack of sources, since that's the main problem. (

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http://ftr.wot-news.com/2015/02/10/separatists-press-another-monument-into-service/

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https://reviews.ipmsusa.org/review/designing-t-34-genesis-revolutionary-soviet-tank

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Armour section described almost exclusively from German and American point of view.

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After giving it a great deal of thought, I think the idea of an article concerning

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Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.

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watch for the black helicopters that should be arriving at your location shortly.

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low-velocity, while the ones on later models are more of medium-high hybrid.

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That's no excuse, nor an airtight alibi. Palindromedairy said he made this

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is from Kansas, U.S. while you other provided IP on your user profile: IP

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Cool. I am going to make an edit now, and tell me what you think. Simon

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through the war (although dwarfed by the huge leaps in design quality).

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The article already clearly says what the Aberdeen tests were based on.

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Aberdeen Proving Grounds source doesn't meet any reasonable standards

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http://wikimapia.org/22191580/T-34-85-tank-on-a-plinth#/photo/3663997

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altogether. If there's no objection to that I'll see to that soon. --

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like the T-34!". This probably should be mentioned in the article.

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http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/china/chinese-tanks-1925-1950/

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Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the

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I can't find a coherent point or a concrete edit suggestion here. (

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Sure, now its the fault of the provider. If you haven't noticed IP

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Do you have something to hide or why hidding behind multiple IP's?

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https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-soviet-memorial-tank/25412840.html

4178:" is not supported by the sources already cited in this article? 3566:

August 21, 1938. Page 67 discusses the L-11, F-32 and F-34 guns.

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torsion-bar suspension, both of which allowed for a lower hull.

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Cite your sources. A YouTube video is not a credible source. --

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II

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Walter J Spielberger 1993, Panther & Its Variants p. 232.

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It's on the front page, why isn't it at least semi-protected?

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Military science, technology, and theory task force articles

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Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force articles

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old revision, the article was written in British English. --

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What I told you, you can find ALL of them on the wikipedia.

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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once

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Are you deliberately refusing to understand what I write?

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Definitely not, that's ridiculous. I removed the mention.

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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C-Class Russian, Soviet and CIS military history articles

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C-Class military science, technology, and theory articles

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B-Class Russian, Soviet and CIS military history articles

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Its marked as a blog. You know what RS says about blogs.

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Factual errors in this article, and one notable omission?

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Technology and engineering in Russia task force articles

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Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 14:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

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the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force

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This article appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s Main Page as

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Peter Samsonov's claims of inaccuracies in this article

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https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Soviet_tank_factories

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Plenty of authors have called this tank revolutionary,

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http://www.wsowp.poznan.pl/muzeum/pages/eksponat12.htm

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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page

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Citation style and consistency "References and Notes"

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B-Class Russia (technology and engineering) articles

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production time was cut in half by the end of 1942,

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This article has been checked against the following

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Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force

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Military science, technology, and theory task force

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the technology and engineering in Russia task force

176: 4528:Because, is that the only way it's authoritative? 1869:placement and protection of the tanks help here.-- 4563:117,100 ℛ︁ℳ︁ (without weapons, optics, or radio) 1980:Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on this Simon. 35:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3503:editing the article itself based on the video. 1827:Diesel more difficult to brew up then gasoline? 3586:"Its 76.2 mm (3 in) high-velocity tank gun..." 3283:This message was posted before February 2018. 3212:Great. I'm happy to help you out if you want. 4259: 4096:etc. I was summarizing that line of thought. 3617:muzzle velocity gives 2500-2700 FPS, and the 2429:in the context of how effective a tank it was 1659:This page has archives. Sections older than 1585:Adding movie of recovering T-34 from bog/lake 8: 3008:German encounter of Soviet T-34 and KV tanks 1625:Huge article, but useless without a 'center' 803:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 4240:Annealing of steel at extreme temperatures. 3498:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhPgw6X8ubE 4782:Military land vehicles task force articles 3366: 3239:I have just modified one external link on 1806: 1646:Knowledge (XXG):How to archive a talk page 1039: 931: 845: 729: 537: 432: 292: 249: 3265:http://litl-bro.livejournal.com/1700.html 4687:Knowledge (XXG) former featured articles 783:This article is within the scope of the 500:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Soviet Union 4777:C-Class military land vehicles articles 4584:Should I really bother it? It's a fact. 3735: 1353:Citation needed for driver's visibility 1233:"MDSh smoke canisters on the hull rear" 1041: 731: 539: 434: 404: 4732:Top-importance B-Class Russia articles 3987:2601:600:C701:2E70:3020:23F1:DC24:AAA2 3760:Does this count as use in a conflict? 3655:2601:245:C101:9C70:1819:F007:3DA5:435E 3598:2601:245:C101:9C70:A59E:5B97:996E:21D2 2247:2001:56A:F106:6500:D58D:D2FA:F09C:45E8 2182:2001:56A:F106:6500:D58D:D2FA:F09C:45E8 1669:when more than 5 sections are present. 1409:evacuation of soviet industry to ural? 793:. To use this banner, please see the 4752:History of Russia task force articles 4712:High-importance Soviet Union articles 4452:https://en.wikipedia.org/Panther_tank 2030:crap wording thats been there a while 1471:Archive 5 (2007-03-07 and 2007-10-26) 1211:Archive 2 (2005-10-08 and 2006-01-27) 806:Template:WikiProject Military history 7: 3847:Ah, my bad. I was thinking of this. 3633:had 2031 FPS performance, while the 3621:data gives 2690 FPS. The early T-34 2505:The following appears in Archive 6: 2383:Well is everyone happy with it now? 1644:If further archiving is needed, see 1537:T-34 in service and reuse in Austria 1347:Archive 4 (2006-08-26 to 2007-03-11) 1313:Military Discovery Channel's Ranking 1295:Archive 3 (2006-01-28 to 2006-07-31) 1163:Archive 1 (2003-10-06 to 2005-09-18) 1087:This article is within the scope of 599:This article is within the scope of 480:This article is within the scope of 1597:Comparison with contemporary tanks. 1107:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Ukraine 488:Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 423:It is of interest to the following 25:for discussing improvements to the 4457:https://en.wikipedia.org/Panzer_IV 1325:Drive for Featured Article quality 632:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Russia 14: 4772:C-Class military history articles 4747:B-Class Russia (history) articles 4717:WikiProject Soviet Union articles 3243:. Please take a moment to review 2659:Agree with T-34-85. This is what 1800:http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com 1663:may be automatically archived by 1385:Protest T-34 in Budapest, Hungary 961:Military land vehicles task force 503:Template:WikiProject Soviet Union 52:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 4817:World War II task force articles 4575:Zaloga 2015, Armored Champion p. 1834:Gas Tanks, Fires, and Explosions 1074: 1064: 1043: 908: 897: 886: 875: 864: 776: 733: 697:the history of Russia task force 586: 576: 541: 467: 457: 436: 405: 276: 253: 223: 47:Click here to start a new topic. 4827:Mid-importance Ukraine articles 2552:My suggestion from 2013 stands. 1417:First tank to use Diesel engine 1127:This article has been rated as 823:This article has been rated as 652:This article has been rated as 520:This article has been rated as 4727:Top-importance Russia articles 4271:Let's take this step by step: 3822:That's an IS-3, not a T-34. -- 3425:15:55, 14 September 2017 (UTC) 3411:11:01, 14 September 2017 (UTC) 3385:09:42, 14 September 2017 (UTC) 1854:Kheynom. You know that. Simon 1767:) 14:18, 14 March 2016 (UTC) 1689:12:23, 22 September 2015 (UTC) 1449:Grammar & English Mistakes 1217:Soviet vs. German war industry 1: 4812:C-Class World War II articles 4707:B-Class Soviet Union articles 3945:04:32, 20 February 2023 (UTC) 3782:09:09, 30 November 2022 (UTC) 3726:20:32, 17 November 2022 (UTC) 3699:04:31, 10 December 2020 (UTC) 3681:04:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC) 3663:04:22, 10 December 2020 (UTC) 2770:13:43, 10 February 2017 (UTC) 2752:03:29, 10 February 2017 (UTC) 2722:03:03, 10 February 2017 (UTC) 2673:18:16, 29 February 2016 (UTC) 2631:18:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC) 2597:21:58, 26 February 2016 (UTC) 2572:16:34, 26 February 2016 (UTC) 2488:23:25, 17 December 2015 (UTC) 2475:21:16, 17 December 2015 (UTC) 2460:19:41, 17 December 2015 (UTC) 2445:11:26, 17 December 2015 (UTC) 2006:18:54, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1990:16:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1976:15:58, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1961:15:51, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1947:15:46, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1931:15:38, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1913:15:34, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1899:15:32, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1879:11:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1864:04:55, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1845:04:40, 14 November 2015 (UTC) 1751:14:21, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 1731:13:57, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 1569:UNINTERRUPTED PRODUCTION RUN? 1101:and see a list of open tasks. 714:This article is supported by 694:This article is supported by 674:This article is supported by 494:and see a list of open tasks. 44:Put new text under old text. 4832:WikiProject Ukraine articles 4802:Weaponry task force articles 4702:Old requests for peer review 4545:~103,462 ℛ︁ℳ︁ (~490,000 USD) 3924:14:24, 8 February 2023 (UTC) 3909:08:22, 3 February 2023 (UTC) 3800:23:46, 26 January 2023 (UTC) 3648:04:56, 9 December 2020 (UTC) 3606:21:10, 2 December 2020 (UTC) 3576:09:25, 3 February 2023 (UTC) 3531:06:24, 1 December 2019 (UTC) 3515:16:14, 30 October 2019 (UTC) 3437:Our article currently says: 2701:16:08, 18 October 2016 (UTC) 2411:20:56, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2393:20:52, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2377:02:12, 7 February 2016 (UTC) 2348:22:52, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2333:21:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2310:21:29, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2282:22:00, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2263:21:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2241:21:16, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2226:21:10, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2212:21:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2194:20:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2172:20:48, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2138:20:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2123:20:32, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2108:20:21, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2093:20:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2078:19:53, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2064:19:49, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 2045:19:31, 7 December 2015 (UTC) 1821:08:29, 9 December 2018 (UTC) 1716:19:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC) 1389:Western inferiority complex? 1285:New article: "T-34 variants" 1110:Template:WikiProject Ukraine 786:Military history WikiProject 554:Technology & engineering 4767:WikiProject Russia articles 4566:143,912 ℛ︁ℳ︁ (combat ready) 3701:A.K.A. the former Irondome. 2401:Looks fine to me. Thanks. 2253:is from Poland. Nuff said. 635:Template:WikiProject Russia 4848: 4551:USD equivalents as of 2000 4522:What kind of joke is this? 4220:German Reaction to the T34 4202:16:20, 10 April 2023 (UTC) 4188:16:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC) 4166:16:08, 10 April 2023 (UTC) 4152:10:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC) 4040:18:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC) 4012:08:09, 30 March 2023 (UTC) 3995:06:06, 30 March 2023 (UTC) 3865:10:50, 13 March 2023 (UTC) 3843:01:03, 11 March 2023 (UTC) 3818:08:36, 10 March 2023 (UTC) 3756:Russia-Ukraine war of 2022 3625:gives 2200 FPS. the later 3487:14:59, 1 August 2018 (UTC) 3314:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3236:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3222:18:18, 16 March 2017 (UTC) 3194:18:14, 16 March 2017 (UTC) 3164:19:59, 15 March 2017 (UTC) 3151:00:55, 15 March 2017 (UTC) 3122:18:15, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 2986:17:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 2955:16:39, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 2888:16:23, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 2858:00:28, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 2794:00:09, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 2706:Angolan usage too granular 1788:14:14, 14 March 2016 (UTC) 1457:Citations needed over load 1437:WTF with "citation needed? 1337:T-34 is a Featured Article 1205:Units (00 mm, 00mm, 00-mm) 1133:project's importance scale 869:Referencing and citation: 658:project's importance scale 526:project's importance scale 359:Featured article candidate 4797:C-Class weaponry articles 4672:21:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4631:18:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4617:18:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4603:17:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4538:17:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4515:17:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4501:17:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4484:16:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 4441:16:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 4415:16:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 4389:10:12, 29 June 2024 (UTC) 4326:reflects on the machine? 4235:20:05, 24 July 2023 (UTC) 4138:23:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC) 4124:20:50, 3 April 2023 (UTC) 4106:20:31, 3 April 2023 (UTC) 4065:18:56, 3 April 2023 (UTC) 3980:Russia as a T-34 operator 3974:04:43, 3 March 2023 (UTC) 3960:04:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC) 3930:General Reliability Quote 3553:21:34, 10 July 2022 (UTC) 3465:) 10:44, 10 October 2018 3351:19:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC) 1657: 1173:post-war T-34 engagements 1126: 1059: 1023: 1007: 991: 975: 959: 930: 822: 809:military history articles 771: 713: 693: 673: 651: 609:dedicated to coverage of 571: 519: 452: 431: 387: 295: 291: 271:) and why it was removed. 82:Be welcoming to newcomers 4822:B-Class Ukraine articles 4353:05:38, 26 May 2024 (UTC) 4255:20:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC) 3457:08:48, 8 June 2018 (UTC) 2729:South African Border War 1517:Dozens of national flags 1445:Continued K of FA status 1441:Finnish nickname origins 483:WikiProject Soviet Union 285:Today's featured article 4722:B-Class Russia articles 3888:19:57, 4 May 2023 (UTC) 3629:gives 2598 FPS. The M4 3232:External links modified 1581:John Mosier on the T-34 1465:Explanation of my edits 1309:Identify version please 1281:First sentence is wordy 1201:T-34/85's reduced speed 1025:World War II task force 935:Associated task forces: 880:Coverage and accuracy: 622:, or contribute to the 390:Former featured article 378:Featured article review 265:former featured article 3539:Well we have a review 1666:Lowercase sigmabot III 1453:Statistics on Citation 1381:Recent anonymous edits 1273:Peer review to-do list 1245:Some minor corrections 1020: 1004: 988: 972: 956: 913:Supporting materials: 841: 710: 690: 670: 413:This article is rated 269:the nomination archive 77:avoid personal attacks 4074:sacrificing accuracy. 2365:actually a sockpuppet 1543:Archive 6 (2008-2010) 1341:Hitler's intelligence 1181:Christie Suspension ? 1019: 1003: 987: 971: 955: 840: 709: 689: 669: 506:Soviet Union articles 417:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 217:Auto-archiving period 102:Neutral point of view 4525:Should I look it up? 3295:regular verification 1617:Poor English writing 1573:Bay of Pigs Invasion 1189:Combat Effectiveness 758:Russian & Soviet 613:on Knowledge (XXG). 340:Good article nominee 287:on February 5, 2007. 107:No original research 3285:After February 2018 1605:T-34 in Afghanistan 1557:Double Armor T-34?! 1425:quantity vs quality 1177:Commander as loader 1090:WikiProject Ukraine 993:Weaponry task force 902:Grammar and style: 855:for B-class status: 475:Soviet Union portal 4030:other way around. 3894:Spare transmission 3339:InternetArchiveBot 3290:InternetArchiveBot 2501:T-34-85 or T-34/85 1601:Fighting infantry? 1485:REFERENCE CITATION 1321:Importance section 1257:Production Numbers 1229:Model 1942 or 1943 1021: 1005: 989: 973: 957: 842: 791:list of open tasks 711: 691: 671: 624:project discussion 602:WikiProject Russia 419:content assessment 296:Article milestones 88:dispute resolution 49: 4587:Soviet factories: 4090:most influential, 3804:What about this? 3635:Ordnance QF 75 mm 3387: 3371:comment added by 3315: 1823: 1811:comment added by 1791: 1774:comment added by 1673: 1672: 1640: 1631: 1577:Possible Misquote 1539: 1533:T-34 towed by ARV 1529:Baryatinskiy book 1525:Operators Listing 1467: 1377:Use of quotations 1357:World's Best Tank 1343: 1305:Used at Lang Vei? 1291: 1207: 1147: 1146: 1143: 1142: 1139: 1138: 1038: 1037: 1034: 1033: 1030: 1029: 926: 925: 871:criterion not met 827:on the project's 795:full instructions 728: 727: 724: 723: 536: 535: 532: 531: 399: 398: 395: 394: 371:September 7, 2011 248: 247: 68:Assume good faith 45: 4839: 4435: 4428: 4345:Theotherotherone 4045:Lead - soapboxy? 4028: 4009: 4004: 3837: 3830: 3797: 3748: 3747: 3740: 3714:Yemeni Civil War 3405: 3396: 3349: 3340: 3313: 3312: 3291: 3262: 3188: 3181: 3159: 3116: 3109: 2949: 2942: 2852: 2845: 2746: 2739: 2716: 2591: 2483: 2455: 2001: 1790: 1768: 1668: 1639: 1613:The T-34 as Myth 1561:No turret basket 1547: 1509:Tank power plant 1475: 1393:T-26 Replacement 1373:Tank as a symbol 1351: 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3523:Palindromedairy 3494: 3471: 3435: 3401: 3365:not the case. 3358: 3343: 3338: 3306: 3299:have permission 3289: 3256: 3249:this simple FaQ 3234: 3182: 3175: 3157: 3110: 3103: 2943: 2936: 2846: 2839: 2740: 2733: 2712: 2708: 2587: 2510: 2503: 2481: 2467:Palindromedairy 2453: 2437:Palindromedairy 2421: 2403:Palindromedairy 2369:Palindromedairy 2340:Palindromedairy 2274:Palindromedairy 2233:Palindromedairy 2204:Palindromedairy 2164:Palindromedairy 2032: 1999: 1829: 1769: 1678: 1664: 1650:Edit this index 1521:As late as 1996 1501:Wiki Citzenship 1489:LACK OF BALANCE 1413:Objection to FA 1397:Unit conversion 1361:Standing errors 1169:Awesome article 1112: 1109: 1106: 1103: 1102: 1080: 1075: 1073: 1053: 940: 914: 909: 903: 898: 892: 887: 881: 876: 870: 865: 808: 805: 802: 799: 798: 765: 743: 638:Russia articles 637: 634: 631: 628: 627: 616:To participate: 592: 587: 585: 565: 551: 522:High-importance 505: 502: 499: 496: 495: 473: 468: 466: 447:High‑importance 446: 414: 369: 350: 331: 312: 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775: 774: 770: 763: 759: 755: 751: 747: 746:Land vehicles 742: 739: 736: 732: 719: 718: 708: 704: 703: 699: 698: 688: 684: 683: 679: 678: 668: 664: 663: 659: 655: 649: 646: 645: 642: 625: 621: 617: 612: 608: 604: 603: 595: 594:Russia portal 584: 582: 579: 575: 574: 570: 563: 559: 555: 550: 547: 544: 540: 527: 523: 517: 514: 513: 510: 493: 489: 485: 484: 476: 465: 463: 460: 456: 455: 451: 445: 442: 439: 435: 430: 426: 420: 412: 408: 403: 402: 391: 386: 382: 380: 379: 375: 372: 368: 367: 363: 361: 360: 356: 353: 352:July 14, 2006 349: 348: 344: 342: 341: 337: 334: 330: 329: 325: 323: 322: 318: 315: 311: 310: 306: 303: 300: 299: 294: 290: 286: 282: 279: 275: 274: 270: 266: 262: 259: 256: 252: 251: 232: 231: 226: 222: 214: 210: 206: 202: 198: 194: 191: 189: 185: 184: 179: 175: 172: 169: 165: 161: 157: 154: 151: 148: 145: 142: 139: 136: 133: 129: 126: 125:Find sources: 122: 121: 113: 112:Verifiability 110: 108: 105: 103: 100: 99: 98: 89: 85: 83: 80: 78: 74: 71: 69: 66: 65: 59: 55: 54:Learn to edit 51: 48: 43: 42: 39: 38: 34: 28: 24: 20: 19: 16: 4664:Andy Dingley 4652: 4609: 4493: 4431: 4430: 4424: 4423: 4405: 4401: 4398: 4374: 4340: 4339: 4334: 4330: 4328: 4324: 4320: 4316: 4313: 4309: 4307: 4302: 4300: 4296: 4292: 4289: 4286: 4282: 4280: 4275: 4273: 4270: 4267: 4263: 4243: 4227:93.105.177.2 4223: 4194: 4176:Nazi Germany 4172:World War II 4158: 4116: 4057: 4054: 4051: 4048: 4025:199.7.157.86 4021: 3983: 3966:Originalcola 3952:Originalcola 3937:Originalcola 3933: 3916:MaxRavenclaw 3901:MaxRavenclaw 3897: 3833: 3832: 3826: 3825: 3794: 3759: 3738: 3730: 3711: 3594: 3568:MaxRavenclaw 3505: 3501: 3495: 3472: 3460: 3445: 3436: 3402: 3367:— Preceding 3363: 3359: 3337: 3334: 3309:source check 3288: 3282: 3279: 3238: 3235: 3184: 3183: 3177: 3176: 3169: 3112: 3111: 3105: 3104: 2945: 2944: 2938: 2937: 2848: 2847: 2841: 2840: 2742: 2741: 2735: 2734: 2713: 2709: 2689: 2588: 2561: 2524: 2521: 2518: 2514: 2511: 2508: 2504: 2496: 2433: 2428: 2425: 2422: 2419:Lead Editing 1830: 1807:— Preceding 1796: 1770:— Preceding 1739: 1735: 1719: 1704: 1702:Andy Loates 1701: 1697: 1694: 1679: 1660: 1643: 1461:Previous FAR 1365:Model naming 1221:Nomenclature 1157: 1128: 1088: 850: 824: 784: 762:World War II 715: 695: 675: 653: 620:project page 615: 600: 521: 497:Soviet Union 481: 444:Soviet Union 425:WikiProjects 389: 376: 357: 339: 338: 319: 260: 220: 186: 173: 167: 159: 152: 146: 140: 134: 124: 96: 21:This is the 15: 4542:Pz IV cost: 4489:WP:CIRCULAR 4331:Reliability 4310:Consistency 4180:Binksternet 4130:Binksternet 4098:Binksternet 3691:Simon Adler 3686:Binksternet 3673:Binksternet 3640:Simon Adler 2665:K.e.coffman 1917:Seriously? 1249:Peer review 1197:Importance? 891:Structure: 607:WikiProject 321:Peer review 150:free images 33:not a forum 4681:Categories 4469:Factories: 4448:Unit cost: 4381:Bradiation 4283:"Accuracy" 4144:Staberinde 4080:legendary, 3731:References 3433:Economics? 3346:Report bug 3214:DMorpheus2 3158:TREKphiler 3143:DMorpheus2 3101:Thanks, -- 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1968:Irondome 1939:Irondome 1919:The PIPE 1905:Irondome 1856:Irondome 1809:unsigned 1784:contribs 1772:unsigned 1549:Nonsense 1237:comments 852:criteria 754:Weaponry 562:Military 364:Promoted 326:Reviewed 188:Archives 58:get help 31:This is 29:article. 4572:Source: 4554:Source: 4341:Summary 3857:Liftarn 3810:Liftarn 3774:Liftarn 3766:Liftarn 3263:tag to 3245:my edit 3078:even 12 3032:sooner? 2361:Kheynom 2325:Kheynom 2255:Kheynom 2218:Kheynom 2186:Kheynom 2130:Kheynom 2100:Kheynom 2056:Kheynom 1995:Kheynom 1982:Kheynom 1953:Kheynom 1923:Kheynom 1891:Kheynom 1871:Denniss 1837:Kheynom 1733:Andy L 1513:Infobox 1505:Reverts 1493:Changes 1131:on the 1104:Ukraine 1095:Ukraine 1051:Ukraine 825:C-class 766:C‑class 656:on the 558:History 524:on the 415:B-class 383:Demoted 304:Process 156:WP refs 144:scholar 4438:(talk) 4377:do it. 3840:(talk) 3615:PaK 40 3469:ENGVAR 3255:Added 3191:(talk) 3119:(talk) 2952:(talk) 2855:(talk) 2749:(talk) 2663:uses. 1481:Gadfly 1289:Radios 629:Russia 611:Russia 549:Russia 421:scale. 345:Listed 307:Result 128:Google 4610:Hohum 4494:Hohum 4425:Katan 4195:Hohum 4159:Hohum 4117:Hohum 4058:Hohum 3827:Katan 3545:©Geni 3403:Hohum 3178:Katan 3106:Katan 2939:Katan 2909:edits 2842:Katan 2736:Katan 2714:Hohum 2589:Hohum 1852:WP:RS 1593:Links 1589:Tiger 1429:Image 263:is a 171:JSTOR 132:books 86:Seek 4668:talk 4627:talk 4599:talk 4534:talk 4511:talk 4480:talk 4432:gais 4411:talk 4385:talk 4375:bold 4364:here 4349:talk 4303:1942 4251:talk 4231:talk 4184:talk 4148:talk 4134:talk 4102:talk 4036:talk 3991:talk 3970:talk 3956:talk 3941:talk 3920:talk 3905:talk 3884:talk 3861:talk 3851:and 3834:gais 3814:talk 3789:ansh 3778:talk 3770:talk 3722:talk 3695:talk 3677:talk 3659:talk 3644:talk 3619:88mm 3602:talk 3572:talk 3549:talk 3527:talk 3511:talk 3483:talk 3479:John 3475:this 3473:Per 3463:talk 3453:talk 3421:talk 3377:talk 3241:T-34 3218:talk 3185:gais 3147:talk 3113:gais 2982:talk 2946:gais 2884:talk 2849:gais 2790:talk 2766:talk 2743:gais 2697:talk 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