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2123:(VEI) index is not appropriate, and the usual measures of a volcano's size (volume of effluent) is only very roughly known for any volcanoes, and has not been scientifically coupled to any energy scale. How can you put an energy tag to a single phenomena that exudes hot magma sometimes invisibly below the surface, blows hot ash into the atmosphere in cubic miles lots, and also may include an earthquake or fifty? Personally, I wish it were true that they could be so succinctly be measured, but I've never seen any geophysicist attempt such a thing.
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that context, they almost always areâbecause even in the U.S. metric tons are the only tons in general use for that purpose. When these numbers are not expressed in metric tons in the United States, they are not expressed in short tons either, but rather in bushels as units of mass, with 1 bushel of wheat or soybeans ⥠0.0272155422 (metric) ton, 1 bu of corn or rye ⥠0.02540117272 metric ton, 1 bu of barley ⥠0.02177243376 metric ton, etc.
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the article tries to explain that in one way of measuring that, it is higher than the conventional value, and that in another way of measuring it, it is lower than the conventional value used to define a "ton of TNT equivalent". The problem may be that not everyone will understand what the word "conventional" means in this context, so the transition to measurements made in different ways needs to be made more clear.
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1462:"4.184 petajoules" What fucking retard put that there? Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with wikipedia? You aren't even allowed to apply a simple conversion factor without needing a citation? Epic fail, wikipedia. Somebody ban me for this so I'm not tempted to waste my time trying to fix this type of bullshit.--
2126:
Looking through his month-long history of contributions, he has concentrated on adding paragraphs to volcano description pages assigning teratons of TNT equivalent to various volcanos. None of the ones I sampled have any citations at all. I'm going to revert this change for lack of a citation, and,
1384:
If something is sufficient to power the "average household" for 3,104,226 years, and could power the entire United States for 9.5 years, than a quick arithmetic check says that this means there are 326761 households in the USA, and that is assuming no other energy is used outside of these households.
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As this is an article about a subject I have only a passing familiarity with I do not feel qualified to make an edit to the page, nor I am sure how to note that the stated 22kiloton result (and hence the approximately 10% level of error in the figure) is a result of the rounding done and not a result
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That says, to me at least (but maybe just because I know that, and the wording may need to be tweaked), that the term "ton of TNT equivalent" always means a gigacalorie, derived from a conventional value of 1000 cal/g times a million grams. It doesn't matter what the actual energy TNT produces. But
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One of the problems is that if people are talking about wheat production, for example, they rarely use "megatons". Those mass units usually "million tons" or "million metric tons" or "million tonnes" or "million metric tons" in that context. And even if the tons are not identified as metric tons in
2449:
The "2011 TĹhoku earthquake and tsunami" example is quoted as 9 x 10^6 MT, far greater than 26.3, the value quoted for the 2004Indian Ocean earthquake, yet it also claims to be smaller than the Indian Ocean earthquake. I suspect some of these examples might have numbers that are incorrect by orders
2084:
With regards to disaster in Beirut, the AN was in bags labelled
Nitroprill, a knock off version of Orca's Nitropril⢠(explosive grade AN / SSAN). If the Nitroprill in Beirut was inferior Fertiliser Grade then it's TNT Equivalency would have been a lot lower, 0.15 to 0.03, but that does not appear to
1380:
1 megaton, when converted to kilowatt-hours, produces enough energy to power the average
American household (in the year 2007) for 103,474 Years. For example, the estimated upper limit blast power of the Tunguska event could power the aforementioned home for just over 3,104,226 years. To put that in
1239:
In particular the above says "An explosion energy of 3575 Cal/g was measured by calorimetric methods-in agreement with thermodynamic equilibrium calculations of the âHeat of
Combustionâ for TNT (based on the CHEETAH code ). Thus, the explosion-induced mixing of the TNT products with oxygen deposited
1234:
Does anyone understand the 651 cal/g number cited in the page? I asked the author of the reference for a citation and an explanation. He replied, but he provided neither. I provided him with the following reference, which puts the TNT energy value (heating value) at 3575 cal/g, and the detonation
764:
Those links should all be cleaned up. Not only to link to a more specific article, but also to specify the units, in the visible text in the articles containing those links, as "tons of TNT" or something of the sort, not just "tons" and "kilotons" and "megatons" as if they were units of mass rather
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equation. It's stated that G.I. Taylor arrived at a figure of 22 kilotons for the yield of the
Trinity device based on a 140m fireball radius at 0.025 seconds into the explosion. However, when I ran the equation myself today (just an exercise in keeping the mind healthy) my result was closer to the
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Mainly because the numbers get so ridiculously huge near the end that actually speaking, megatons are dwarfed. I wanted some commonality in the table without resorting to conversions; for some, 'ticularly my feller 'Muricans, doing decimal shifting is as bad as tying shoes, if you get my drift.
1399:
Yes, this was my first thought when I read that paragraph. There are definitely more than 325k households in the U.S. If I remember correctly, the number is close to 100,000,000. There are over 300,000,000 total U.S. citizens and I'm fairly certain that the average household size is substantially
2114:
Comes KMTRAGER to add volcanic events to the possibilities for measurement using units of tons of TNT equivalent. While volcanic events are certainly energetic events that this unit could theoretically be applied to, the problem is that, one, volcanoes use a plethora of energy forms to manifest
1149:
This means that all the claims of the form "1 gram TNT = 4184 J (exactly)." in the article are incorrect. They're off by about 10% since that's about the difference between a short ton and a metric ton. When you take this into account, I believe the correct statements are: 1 (short) ton TNT is
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Since I solved the equation myself and have seen that the result matches the official number to within 3% I'm certain that both of the above are false. The official number is likely a truncation of the known yield for ease of public consumption and the approximate 20.6 kiloton figure returned by
817:
Currently a megaton explosive is defined to be exactly 4.184 gigajoules (see opening paragraph). That makes any squabbling over the original ton meant irrelevant; it is now a unit of energy, no longer one of mass. Whether it was originally long, short, metric or simple is not longer meaningful.
784:
Another is that nobody talks about "short megatons" or "long megatons"; megatons (even if not dealing with energy) are almost always metric tons. But a large part of the "ton" article deals with all the various distinctions between long, short, and metric tons not only in the mass units and the
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It is accurate to within an order of magnitude to say that 10J is equivalent to 10 megatons of TNT equivalent. However, it is wrong to say that such an amount of TNT would have a mass a mere 1â
the mass of the earth. 10 megatons is 10 kilograms. The earth has a mass of 5.9735*10 kilograms.
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Security
Sensitive Ammonium Nitrate (SSAN). This factor is from TĂśrĂśk & Ozunu (2015) and it is used by the Australian Explosives Inspectorate. That said, the TNT Equivalency of AN is a rough estimate and it varies a lot depending on the type of AN and conditions that led to a detonation
2414:
Ha this isn't a "great wrong" that needs to be righted; almost every article on WPÂ uses kiloton/kilotonne of TNT interchangeably (as does the world, and etc. for the rest of the prefixed versions), so they're essentially in free variation. Insofar as they are, I'm saying use
2146:
The images in the
Examples table are nice and all but they make it much more difficult to compare items in the table and add little / nothing to the data being presented. Plus they're all in the linked articles already; I propose the removal of these images for readability.
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and not here, since they are often used to speak of mass rather than explosions. I don't claim to have done this perfectly, so please be bold in following up on it. I didn't see any existing controversy over this terms, but if I have created one, I'm willing to discuss.
1507:
I don't think using total conversion of mater to energy as an example is useful. It has nothing to do with TNT equivalent where a chemical reaction takes place, while matter+antimatter would be a change on the nuclear level. Also it's not TNT specific. I'd rather remove it.
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In my opinion, the example given there is exaggerated. Supernovae are atomic explosions where a fraction of the star's mass is annihilated. Of course this mass is far larger than the size of Earth, so an explosion of the same size requires far more TNT. E.M. Balli
1684:
I'm pretty sure the first sentence of this section is based on a misreading of the referenced article. The wide range given refers to other explosives. There are many standard reference works that give the heat of detonation of TNT as approximately 4100 kJ/kg.
1187:
Of course it's relevant. Every topic has a history. It's just helpful to remember the distinction between the original meaning and the current definition. The meter has been redefined quite a few times, but each of those older definitions is still relevant.
1442:
Unless someone cites actual numbers for the 2013 Russian meteor, I think that 500 kiloton claim needs to be removed. I think a 10 ton rock would have to be moving at 600,000 meters per second to get that amount of energy. I've removed the example.
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the amount of energy in a tonne of TNT. No layperson is going to know these details if the article and all other articles keep referring to it as "ton". This issue is even exemplified by the discussions above where even editors are confused (see
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in a week or so and a lack of counter-argument here, start down the list of changes he has done, as it seems few have been challenged. If he has citations for the values he is assigning, he will need to supply them, both here and there.
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1766:, the approximate number of nuclear warheads is around 15,000. As in, a half of the amount, mentioned in the article. Further, the destructive capacity is only around 1460 megatons (1.460 gigaton), according to these pages:
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is worth reading. It points out that the kiloton is only a measure of energy, and the relationship between mass and energy is left ambiguous. It might be better to state this rather than take one particular point of view.
1146:, one of the references given in the article. It's pretty clear from context that when that page says in its table that one "ton of TNT (energy equivalent)" is "4.184E+09 joule (J)" it means a short ton, not a metric ton.
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A different point of view is expressed for example in the book "Explosive Shocks in Air" second edition, by Kinney and Graham, where it is stated on page 2 that the standard is 1100 cal/gram based on the "standard ton".
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how many miles would a certian amount of tons destroy? is it exponential? i was watching stargate and the mark IX was said to destroy everything within 100 miles, so how many mega/gigatons of tnt is that?
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Although in "The Los Alomos Primer - The first lectures on how to build an atomic bomb", original declassified document uses short tons, and Serber even explicitly says it's 907kilograms. Which is it?
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to see what it said.) The "ton" article deals primarily with mass, but also many other meanings of the highly ambiguous word. But most of the links to "megaton" were to the TNT equivalent meaning.
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For another thing, right or wrong, the "megaton" article dealt primarily with energy equivalent of TNT. (Note that after your moves, we need to go to the history of the redirect at "Tonne of TNT"
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an additional 2482 Cal/g of exothermic energy as a consequence of the turbulent combustion process. In the popular literature, this is known as âafter-burningâ in TNT explosions (see Dewey )."
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as that could be interpreted to mean everything would be within the fireball, or perhaps interpreted that they meant it would destroy all common brick houses and so on with blast to the radius.
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Not only does the second figure fall outside of the range of the first, but the first figure implies that the value is either inconsistent or poorly measured, whereas the second does not. --
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I'm fairly sure that the ton (that is short ton) is correct and the tonne (metric ton) is incorrect. That is, the definition should be 1e9 cal/short ton as you say. This is backed up by
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I was surprised to see that this page takes the point of view that the "ton" in kiloton is a "tonne". I do not think this is agreed upon or even, in my experience, very common.
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after that was expanded and also linked to this newly expanded article as a "Main article". While I think that has some good points, there are factors that need to be discussed.
2364:). If the terms are interchangeable, we should be using the one that is the least confusing and most precise, especially seeing as many other WPÂ articles use kilotonne as well.
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Gene
Nygaard: You removed the contradiction tag from the "values" section. I was not confused about the meaning of "convention". Here I have highlighted the problem:
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GNU units uses the short ton rather than the tonne - is this just to allow notation like "kiloton" to come out right, or is it actually based on 1e9 cal/shortton ? --
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should be used because "ton" is ambiguous. Actually, it's worse:Â if we were to assume you were right that the article is written in
American English, then in AE,
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Looks like the Joule value for kT and MT are wrong. A gallon of gasoline is equivalent to 130 MJ. The TJ values for the kT yields seem wrong. This is the source,
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2423:, that only applies to titles, and this article's title is "TNT equivalent" that nobody has a problem with, so it's an irrelevant policy to cite in this case.
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Your first link has the incorrect symbols (kT would mean kiloteslas), but again, it doesn't matter what the "standard
American spelling" is. The point is that
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This definition is a conventional one. Explosives energy is normally calculated using the thermodynamic work energy of detonation, which for TNT has been
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which puts the
Hiroshima yeild at 10^14 Joules. I think numbers here and in the Fatman and Little Boy sections need correcting. Possibly elsewhere.
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is now a unit of energy, no longer one of mass (at least this one is so), so wondering which ton of TNT was originally meant is no longer relevant.
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themselves, and two, these forms are not easily amenable to accurate measurement of energy within an order of magnitude. Earthquakes, through the
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The largest planned detonation of conventional explosives, now that Trump has dropped a MOAB on Afghanistan, has risen to a sad 10 kilotonnes.
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1306:, it takes some re-reading of sections but the equations will solve your thought experiment, and it really is determined by what you mean by
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Therefore, the mass of the TNT equivalent to a 10J supernova would be about equal to 1 trillion, 10, earths. I edited it to reflect this.
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OK, pardon my obtuseness. You're right, historically it is relevant, though obsolete for purposes of current definition. I stand corrected.
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I don't think we need Wh in the tables. But if we're going to include Wh, we should also include SI units; the Examples section does not.
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For one thing, the various moves have left an orphaned talk page without an associated article, which I linked to at the top of this page.
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perspective: the blast energy could power the entire United States for 9.5 years (based on average total energy use in America in 2006).
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and pick the one that is definitively unambiguous rather than the one that will perpetually raise questions and discussions. As for
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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http://www.webcitation.org/5x9dgiIL8?url=http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqinthenews/2011/usc0001xgp/neic_c0001xgp_wmt.php
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1014:- which, unless every math teacher I had in school a decade ago are wrong - is correct. I came up with a figure of approximately
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Well, be assured you have my permission to edit up a storm on this and make it all consistent. Include your refs, of course.
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As I was on the sidwalk at approx 300 to 500 ft when they bombed the Mariot in Islamabad,I wish to know more about that bomb.
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TĂśrĂśk, Z., & Ozunu, A. (2015). Hazardous Properties of Ammonium Nitrate and Modeling of Explosions Using TNT Equivalency.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120128032332/https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2042rank.html
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is spelled the same in American English as it is in British English; it's not a spelling issue. It's a terminology issue (
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The MOAB is actually 11 tons (0.011 kilotons), which is a few orders of magnitude smaller than the largest detonation.
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Why are megatons used in the examples? I'm not suggesting removing it, but actual kg's of TNT would be useful as well.
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Dynamite, for example, has more than 60% more energy density (approximately 7.5 MJ/kg, compared to 4.6 MJ/kg for TNT).
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Joules, or about 20.6 kilotons. The difference could very likely be that the article speaks in terms of "approximately
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of the equation being inaccurate. And I'm also not sure if such should be done. - An anonymous Knowledge (XXG) user
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http://www.dynonobel.com/dynonobelcom/en/global/productsandservices/northamerica/Products+%28march2006%29/Dynamite/
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the correct amount of energy released even by a "metric ton" of TNT; it's an arbitrary convention chosen that is
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This is misleading; commercial dynamites have energy yields in the range presented for TNT - follow the links on
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Feel free to add what you think would be useful, but just remember those of us less fortunate than y'all.
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upon explosion. To define the tonne of TNT, this was arbitrarily standardized to 1000 calories = 1 gram TNT.
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know that, but what about anyone else? And the ironic thing about in this case is that 4.2Â GJ is actually
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be changed back to a redirect to this page, as it is overwhelmingly used to refer to the unit of energy.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on 7 February 2007. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see
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I wouldn't be complaining about it, but the way the article is written makes it sound like either:
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http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/old%20physics%2010/chapters%20%28old%29/1-Explosions.htm
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951:{\displaystyle R=\left({\frac {Et^{2}}{\rho }}\right)^{\begin{matrix}{\frac {1}{5}}\end{matrix}}}
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on 31 Mar 2017. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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means the short ton (2000Â lb) by default, which is even more incorrect in this context because
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If the energy of a megagram is 4 gigajoules, shoudln't the energy of a gram be 4 kilojoules? â
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We follow what the world uses. The world uses kilo/megaton of TNT, so that's what we use. See
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I changed the TNT Equivalency from 0.42 to 0.32 for explosive grade Ammonium Nitrate (AN)
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Since the quoted sentence isn't particularly relevant it might be simplest to delete it.
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The one that killed off (most) dinos might be added to the list. Values should be around.
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from large numbers of air blast experiments and theoretically calculated to be 1160 cal/g.
2119:, can have their energies evaluated, but there is no equivalent scale for volcanos; the
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http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqinthenews/2011/usc0001xgp/neic_c0001xgp_wmt.php
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I think it should have another one just for KG, and more examples in the lower ranges.
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Something seems a little odd about this following paragraph from the examples section:
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2302:, etc... If short tons were meant, then the energy yield would be 3.8 GJ, not 4.2 GJ.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Kiloton, megaton, etc... is the standard American spelling and universally refers to
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https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2042rank.html
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2170:. This is written in American English, and the American spelling of ton is ton.
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The equation I used was a transformation of the above equation to solve for E -
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1887:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/servlets/purl/3648-Pc0V6C/native/3648.PDF
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If short tons were meant, then the energy yield would be 3.8 GJ, not 4.2Â GJ.
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A footnote at the bottom of page 13 of "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons" at
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It appears that there is an error in the section about Blast Radii and the
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Can someone add a history section how TNT come to be used as the standard.
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The officially stated yield of the Trinity test device is incorrect âŚorâŚ
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http://www.princeton.edu/sgs/publications/articles/effects/effects-1.pdf
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Joules, which is about 22 kilotons when rounded to the nearest integer.
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here, since there was a lot of redundant content. I also re-redirected
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4.184 GJ (exactly) and 1 (metric) tonne TNT is approximately 4.612 GJ.
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officially stated yield of 20 kilotons than the 22 kiloton figure.
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force units, but sometimes in energy or power units or whatever.
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I'd also like to discuss your related moves, such as changing
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Start-Class military science, technology, and theory articles
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I'd suggest one of (or all of) the figures is incorrect... --
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Military science, technology, and theory task force articles
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is valid in all Englishes, and is unambiguous as opposed to
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Updated TNT Equivalency for Explosive Grade Ammonium Nitrate
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energy at 1093 cal/g. The 651 cal/g certainly looks bogus.
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Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in Physical sciences
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Perhaps you mean kTons?, but by all means. Be my guest.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Explanation on how many dynamites there are of 22 kilotons
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in bags, in bays, free stockpile, fire, falling debris
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Moreso, since the "megaton" is defined as 4.184 Mj, the
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solving the equation is probably the real yield figure.
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reference to the fat boy nuclear bomb obviously here
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This article has been checked against the following
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Knowledge (XXG) vital articles in Physical sciences
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Part of what I'd put in section below moved up here
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Military science, technology, and theory task force
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2210:Also, no? Where did you get that idea from?). The
2090:Environmental Engineering & Management Journal
1750:The total global nuclear arsenal numbers are wrong
1072:
1039:
1006:
950:
1529:http://www.evworld.com/library/energy_numbers.pdf
1764:Stockholm International Peace Research Institute
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1144:http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/appenB8.html
2222:), so the policy you actually want to cite is
1877:This message was posted before February 2018.
697:and a number of similar redirects to point at
1007:{\displaystyle E={\frac {R^{5}\rho }{t^{2}}}}
8:
378:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
2499:C-Class vital articles in Physical sciences
1573:all be merged here, for the same reason as
641:; for the discussion at that location, see
601:; for the discussion at that location, see
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1831:I have just modified 3 external links on
1302:Use the blast equations in the free book
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1726:The article needs an update after today
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2479:Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles
2362:Talk:TNT equivalent § Useful Reference
2341:
2207:
1090:The equation is not actually accurate.
368:. To use this banner, please see the
279:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Explosives
2514:Start-Class military history articles
2361:
2142:Removal of images from Examples Table
1421:based on the statistics given in the
381:Template:WikiProject Military history
7:
2049:Well, yes. Isn't that what it says?
1655:how many dynamites are 22 kilotons?
1577:. I'm also going to recommend that
1523:Energy in Joules may need correction
259:This article is within the scope of
2208:This is written in American English
218:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
2509:Mid-importance Explosives articles
14:
1835:. Please take a moment to review
1756:Federation of American Scientists
1040:{\displaystyle 8.6\times 10^{13}}
859:accurately measured at 1120 cal/g
50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
2445:contradition between earthquakes
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
1847:Corrected formatting/usage for
1073:{\displaystyle 9\times 10^{13}}
398:This article has been rated as
299:This article has been rated as
282:Template:WikiProject Explosives
2489:C-Class level-5 vital articles
2358:Talk:TNT equivalent § What ton
1395:12:31, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
1304:The effects of nuclear weapons
1:
2529:Start-Class weaponry articles
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2137:21:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
1701:18:15, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
1674:05:22, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
1518:15:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
1472:18:55, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
1453:05:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
1260:22:24, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
584:Relative effectiveness factor
273:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
2534:Weaponry task force articles
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721:03:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
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361:Military history WikiProject
2504:C-Class Explosives articles
2092:(EEMJ), 14(11), 2671â2678.
2030:Energy of 1g TNT equivalent
1644:16:57, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
1547:04:23, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
1400:smaller than 1,000 people.
1368:21:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
2550:
2121:Volcanic Explosivity Index
2105:01:57, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
2020:18:08, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
1998:17:37, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
1980:03:26, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
1964:23:50, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
1908:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1828:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1818:03:34, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
1744:05:22, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
1160:07:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
1119:03:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
850:releases 980â1100 calories
444:Referencing and citation:
2238:would mean 2âŻ000âŻ000 lb.
2226:, and that dictates that
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1617:17:37, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
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2256:tons of TNT. In fact
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1417:I changed it to 3.27
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1933:InternetArchiveBot
1884:InternetArchiveBot
1423:CIA World Factbook
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638:its history
598:its history
466:Structure:
400:Start-class
341:Startâclass
148:free images
31:not a forum
2468:Categories
2264:(same for
2262:unheard of
2216:metric ton
1940:Report bug
1713:Kendall-K1
1693:5.65.32.25
1503:Antimatter
627:page were
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333:Technology
276:Explosives
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2240:Getsnoopy
2168:WP:ENGVAR
2129:SkoreKeep
2012:SkoreKeep
1972:SkoreKeep
1923:this tool
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1283:Beyblayde
1212:SkoreKeep
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1104:Chixculub
820:SkoreKeep
665:SweBrainz
208:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2389:Headbomb
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1929:Cheers.â
1798:contribs
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427:criteria
337:Weaponry
56:get help
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2236:kiloton
1837:my edit
1736:JulesNP
1632:Zork283
1579:Megaton
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1571:Teraton
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