159:
319:
concluded in the move request), then "Taiji" is (one of the things that) the martial art is referred to as. I have no opinion of which is correct; I edited based on my understanding of the move discussion; if I was wrong about the conclusion of the primary topic, either this page should be moved to the base name (no primary topic) or the primary topic article (the philosophy?) should be. If yet a different topic is primary, and that topic has a title other than "Taiji (qualifier)", then Taiji should redirect to it, but
149:
131:
22:
71:
53:
463:
is for when the encyclopedia is improved by breaking the rules. But InferKNOX, RJFF, and
MachineElf all appeared to indicate the primaryness of the martial art. If the actual consensus if for no primary topic, moving the disambiguation page to the base name will fix the confusion without ignoring any
290:
redirect in good time, when the RfD eventually gets closed. But if the dab page does nothing else, it REALLY should directly address the rampant confusion surrounding these spellings - in other words, it should disambiguate. I have made an alternative edit that restores the lost content, and that I
318:
illustrates how to reflect a primary topic on a disambiguation page (since disambiguation pages are not articles). If the primary topic of "Taiji" is not T'ai chi ch'uan, then the primary topic should be changed to the actual primary topic. If the primary topic of "Taiji" is the martial art (as
341:
OK, thanks for your reply. In my opinion, your assessment of consensus on the requested move was correct, but you saw a primary topic where I don't see one. From where I'm standing, the point we agreed on in the discussion of the requested move is that there IS no primary topic for
498:
and its pinyin-ish friends redirect at this point, so long as a hatnote exists to correct misdirections, and I'm more than open to consensus changing. (It would be a significant change in this case though - I don't think anyone suggested that the martial art was
737:
should stay on the RfD if you wouldn't mind, and as I've said, if it's the martial art then fine. Here, we just need to make sure that readers who end up at the dab are given a clear, brief and intuitive explanation for the ambiguity.
686:. However, as Google Books will attest, a search on "taiji" only returns references to the philosophical concept in 15% of the results. The majority refer to the martial art/exercise, (often qualified as "
823:
690:" in reference to the exercise). Excluding "quan" from the results doesn't significantly alter them. The contention that "taiji" is not used to refer to martial art/exercise is patently wrong and a
393:
for the martial art is rarer (because it is the normal term for the related concept) and having it listed as the first name for the martial art on the dab page would cause a whole lot of confusion.
694:
consensus has yet to be achieved that "Taiji", as opposed to "Taiji (disambiguation)" should be the disambiguation page. Ether way, the existing links for "Taiji" need to be edited to point to
602:
instruction to place a sentence at the top of a dab page briefly defining the ambiguous term and linking to the primary topic. But I find this wording very misleading as the martial art is
491:
367:
622:
but neither is actually the name of the martial art, so we should not say "Taiji or T'ai chi ch'uan is a martial art" as if those are its names. The dab should state the
323:
should not redirect to an article at "Taiji (qualifier)". (and any rampant confusion should be addressed in the article space, however, not in a navigational aid.) --
813:
818:
774:
is a shortened name of T'ai chi ch'uan, a
Chinese martial art." at the top of the dab? (Or move the dab page to the base name if there's no primary topic.) --
346:
in
English. It is an ambiguous term, used as the main or even only spelling for the philosophy concept (as you can see from the large number of links to
808:
558:. I'm only looking at the question of what is the primary topic of the title "Taiji", not what is the best title for the topic of the martial art. --
97:
93:
78:
58:
828:
412:? These terms are so full of confusion that it seems the best thing to do is give completely unambiguous titles to all related pages (
260:
231:
and I feel was done according to the consensus there. But what JHunterJ missed was a long, looooooong discussion on the meanings of
181:
373:
As primary topics relate to this dab page: out of all the four related terms that are sometimes used for the martial art,
33:
172:
136:
494:, where the question of primary topics was first raised and which still continues. Honestly I don't much care where
758:
699:
180:
related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
733:
of it, and the dab should call it by its right name. I think discussion on the redirect target (primary topic) of
698:, they cannot link to a dab page, which was the counter proposal maintained at both the RM and the ongoing RfD.—
83:
679:
256:
21:
417:
405:
39:
678:
pending a consensus on what to do now that the situation has been improved by JHunterJ's close of the
598:
or T'ai chi ch'uan is
Chinese martial art." I understand that you chose this wording according to the
515:
is the martial art (if that is what is decided) does not mean the primary name for the martial art is
275:
have such a clear primary topic in
English. In the pinyin romanization of Chinese, which the spelling
555:
757:"Taiji" wasn't up for discussion at the broken down RfD and I'm not the one who brought it up here.—
247:
and I'm sure everyone involved in that discussion (in all our rainbow of opinions) would agree with
432:
redirects. That's why I supported the move of the philosophy article away from an ambiguous title.
687:
674:(Edit Conflict). We should sweep through and redirect existing links to the philosophical concept
554:
I think so. But I'm not suggesting moving the article on the martial art. It should remain at its
366:
and similar, should redirect to this dab page. But redirects and their targets are the subject of
779:
695:
675:
563:
469:
413:
328:
224:
459:
If there's no primary topic, there's nothing gained by leaving the disambiguation page here --
421:
291:
think conforms to dab page guidelines while addressing the ambiguity directly. Please comment.
747:
646:
528:
441:
300:
148:
130:
315:
592:
Ah, no I must not have explained well enough. Before my most recent edit, the wording was "
350:
that relate to
Chinese history and philosophy) but also occasionally as a shortening of
507:
care if the dab page misleads and confuses people because of our interpretation of the
802:
775:
684:
merely reflects the fact that the philosophical article has always been located there
559:
508:
465:
460:
409:
324:
228:
255:
or T'ai chi ch'uan" in the dab page is very, very misleading. (The discussion is on
742:
641:
523:
436:
295:
164:
363:
267:, which usually means the martial art in English despite its Chinese meaning,
248:
154:
682:. That WP articles (mostly) link to the philosophical article using "Taiji"
599:
429:
279:
is in, the term both widely a nd correctly used for the martial art is
359:
70:
52:
770:
634:
594:
495:
425:
401:
355:
347:
320:
311:
287:
220:
177:
15:
783:
763:
752:
704:
651:
626:
names for the martial art while acknowledging common usage.
567:
533:
473:
446:
332:
305:
633:
has no primary topic, and the dab page has to be moved to
88:
824:
Disambig-Class China-related articles of NA-importance
96:, where you can join the project or contribute to the
396:
Are you saying that if there is no primary topic for
176:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
729:to the martial art, Machine Elf, it's just not the
614:called taiji. This page disambiguates meanings of
86:pages on Knowledge. If you wish to help, you can
170:This disambiguation page is within the scope of
76:This disambiguation page is within the scope of
8:
503:s primary topic in that discussion.) But I
408:? Aaargh.... could this maybe be a case of
82:, an attempt to structure and organize all
19:
125:
47:
424:) and make all the ambiguous titles like
92:attached to this talk page, or visit the
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge's
519:. I hope you see where I'm coming from.
127:
49:
680:Talk:Taiji (philosophy)#Requested move
814:Disambig-Class China-related articles
637:, this shouldn't be an issue anyway.
606:called t'ai chi ch'uan or taijiquan,
7:
819:NA-importance China-related articles
511:. Just because the primary topic of
223:(which was a philosophy article) to
106:Knowledge:WikiProject Disambiguation
490:Fair enough. I've taken it back to
377:is the least common by a long way.
261:WP:Redirects_for_discussion#Tai_chi
109:Template:WikiProject Disambiguation
38:It is of interest to the following
14:
400:, then the dab page should be at
809:WikiProject Disambiguation pages
157:
147:
129:
69:
51:
20:
219:I agreed with the page move of
389:commonly used in English, but
251:that calling the martial art "
1:
184:and see a list of open tasks.
358:, and its related spellings
190:Knowledge:WikiProject China
845:
829:WikiProject China articles
784:11:36, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
764:05:13, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
753:00:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
705:00:24, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
652:00:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
568:00:12, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
534:23:21, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
474:22:51, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
447:22:22, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
354:. Therefore in my opinion
333:21:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
306:21:12, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
193:Template:WikiProject China
79:WikiProject Disambiguation
142:
64:
46:
768:Perhaps a wording like "
385:are correct in Chinese,
227:, which was executed by
112:Disambiguation articles
418:Taiji (disambiguation)
406:Taiji (disambiguation)
196:China-related articles
629:If consensus is that
610:called t'ai chi, and
314:has a primary topic.
215:Page move and cleanup
257:Talk:T'ai chi ch'uan
263:.) Unlike the term
30:disambiguation page
725:"Taiji" is indeed
696:Taiji (philosophy)
676:Taiji (philosophy)
414:Taiji (philosophy)
410:ignoring all rules
225:Taiji (philosophy)
34:content assessment
212:
211:
208:
207:
204:
203:
173:WikiProject China
124:
123:
120:
119:
836:
761:
750:
745:
741:
702:
649:
644:
640:
531:
526:
522:
444:
439:
435:
303:
298:
294:
198:
197:
194:
191:
188:
167:
162:
161:
160:
151:
144:
143:
133:
126:
114:
113:
110:
107:
104:
91:
73:
66:
65:
55:
48:
25:
24:
16:
844:
843:
839:
838:
837:
835:
834:
833:
799:
798:
759:
748:
743:
739:
700:
647:
642:
638:
529:
524:
520:
509:Manual of Style
442:
437:
433:
422:T'ai chi ch'uan
379:T'ai chi ch'uan
368:the tai chi RfD
301:
296:
292:
286:We can fix the
245:t'ai chi ch'uan
217:
195:
192:
189:
186:
185:
163:
158:
156:
111:
108:
105:
102:
101:
87:
12:
11:
5:
842:
840:
832:
831:
826:
821:
816:
811:
801:
800:
797:
796:
795:
794:
793:
792:
791:
790:
789:
788:
787:
786:
766:
714:
713:
712:
711:
710:
709:
708:
707:
665:
664:
663:
662:
661:
660:
659:
658:
657:
656:
655:
654:
627:
579:
578:
577:
576:
575:
574:
573:
572:
571:
570:
543:
542:
541:
540:
539:
538:
537:
536:
481:
480:
479:
478:
477:
476:
452:
451:
450:
449:
394:
371:
336:
335:
216:
213:
210:
209:
206:
205:
202:
201:
199:
182:the discussion
169:
168:
152:
140:
139:
134:
122:
121:
118:
117:
115:
103:Disambiguation
84:disambiguation
74:
62:
61:
59:Disambiguation
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
841:
830:
827:
825:
822:
820:
817:
815:
812:
810:
807:
806:
804:
785:
781:
777:
773:
772:
767:
765:
762:
756:
755:
754:
751:
746:
736:
732:
728:
727:used to refer
724:
723:
722:
721:
720:
719:
718:
717:
716:
715:
706:
703:
697:
693:
689:
685:
681:
677:
673:
672:
671:
670:
669:
668:
667:
666:
653:
650:
645:
636:
632:
628:
625:
621:
617:
613:
609:
605:
601:
597:
596:
591:
590:
589:
588:
587:
586:
585:
584:
583:
582:
581:
580:
569:
565:
561:
557:
556:WP:COMMONNAME
553:
552:
551:
550:
549:
548:
547:
546:
545:
544:
535:
532:
527:
518:
514:
510:
506:
502:
497:
493:
489:
488:
487:
486:
485:
484:
483:
482:
475:
471:
467:
462:
458:
457:
456:
455:
454:
453:
448:
445:
440:
431:
427:
423:
419:
415:
411:
407:
403:
399:
395:
392:
388:
384:
380:
376:
372:
369:
365:
361:
357:
353:
349:
345:
340:
339:
338:
337:
334:
330:
326:
322:
317:
313:
310:
309:
308:
307:
304:
299:
289:
284:
282:
278:
274:
270:
266:
262:
258:
254:
250:
246:
242:
238:
234:
230:
226:
222:
214:
200:
183:
179:
175:
174:
166:
155:
153:
150:
146:
145:
141:
138:
135:
132:
128:
116:
99:
95:
90:
89:edit the page
85:
81:
80:
75:
72:
68:
67:
63:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
31:
27:
23:
18:
17:
769:
760:Machine Elf
734:
730:
726:
701:Machine Elf
691:
688:taiji qigong
683:
630:
623:
619:
615:
611:
607:
603:
593:
516:
512:
504:
500:
397:
390:
386:
382:
378:
374:
351:
343:
285:
280:
276:
272:
268:
264:
252:
244:
240:
236:
232:
218:
171:
165:China portal
94:project page
77:
40:WikiProjects
29:
803:Categories
612:less often
608:very often
464:rules. --
98:discussion
604:correctly
383:taijiquan
352:taijiquan
316:WP:MOSDAB
281:taijiquan
237:taijiquan
776:JHunterJ
624:accurate
560:JHunterJ
466:JHunterJ
387:t'ai chi
325:JHunterJ
265:t'ai chi
241:t'ai chi
229:JHunterJ
744:Kimelea
643:Kimelea
620:tai chi
600:MOS:DAB
525:Kimelea
492:the RfD
438:Kimelea
430:Tai chi
297:Kimelea
749:(talk)
648:(talk)
530:(talk)
501:taiji'
461:WP:IAR
443:(talk)
360:Tai Ji
302:(talk)
36:scale.
771:Taiji
735:taiji
692:clear
635:Taiji
631:taiji
616:taiji
595:Taiji
517:taiji
513:taiji
496:Taiji
426:Taiji
402:Taiji
398:taiji
391:taiji
375:taiji
364:Tàijí
356:Taiji
348:Taiji
344:taiji
321:Taiji
312:Taiji
288:Taiji
277:taiji
271:does
269:taiji
253:Taiji
233:taiji
221:Taiji
187:China
178:China
137:China
28:This
780:talk
731:name
618:and
564:talk
470:talk
428:and
404:not
381:and
329:talk
259:and
243:and
273:not
805::
782:)
566:)
505:do
472:)
420:,
416:,
362:,
331:)
283:.
249:Nø
239:,
235:,
778:(
740:~
639:~
562:(
521:~
468:(
434:~
370:.
327:(
293:~
100:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
