Talk:The New York Times International Edition

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It's more reasonable to have a link from Rockefeller Center to the new WMSC entity (which in turn would link back to the original RC entry as part of its own history). Which entities deserve preservation and which do not may not always be an easy call, but in this case I believe that an institution that existed for 125 years, read by Hemingway and Gertrude Stein and hundreds of thousands of others during their residencies in Europe (and elsewhere), should not instantly become a footnote easily swept away.

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NYT archives and not accessible to Google. There are plenty of sources to be cited on this. The article should, I think, present the NYT version of the story - that it was the same newspaper despite all evidence to the contrary. But it should also present the many, many voices that denounced this story as false, and described the NYT's actions as an unprincipled attempt to claim the heritage of the destroyed company in a "rebranding" effort.

447: 525: 332: 243: 311: 222: 1697:. This one article will include the back history of the Paris Herald and Paris Herald Tribune, including cultural references and whatnot; the full history of the International Herald Tribune; and an aftermath section that describes the name change in 2013 and the Paris closure in 2016. This one article will have the redirects and the lede boldings for Paris Herald and Paris Herald Tribune. 191: 1754:. This request got misinterpreted or misunderstood by most of those responding to it. It is clear that there will continue to be two articles. As for renaming to preserve the correct Knowledge content histories, that ship has sailed, as several others started moving/adding/changing content in the current arrangement and I have as well. So it is what it is. 1700:

If a separate article about The New York Times International Edition really needs to exist, it should just cover the period from 2013/2016 forward, and not all the back history before that. On the other hand, I suspect that the material about The New York Times International Edition and The New York

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into the initial sections of the International Herald Tribune article, so that the entire history of the Herald Tribune operation in Paris could be seen in one place. It looks like you disagree with this idea, as you have just moved such material into the New York Herald and New York Herald Tribune

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Based on that combined with other references, it would appear to merit its own Knowledge entry. For example, the International Herald Tribune has its own chapter in the robust six-volume "Encyclopedia of Journalism" which covers all significant dimensions of journalism and history. Looking thru this

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I guess that's pretty much what I'm recommending. I realize that the NYT Company owns the paper, but I believe that's beside the point. The IHT as an idea still exists (and it wasn't always owned solely by the NYT). A corporate decision to rebrand an institution shouldn't be the overriding factor

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No do not merge. Keep separate entry for the International Herald Tribune based on robust due diligence outlined in earlier discussion. From a historical standpoint, they are two separate newspapers. Rather surprised that this has sprung up again. Wondering if this intervention is perhaps on behalf

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began. Clearly brand names mattered to both papers, a year apart. Until 2013, when there was a tangible change in attitude by the NYT when it took down the name, an attitude made even more clear when the NYT shut down the Paris operation in 2016. In this particular case, I think both history and

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This arrangement is untenable. My view is that there should be only one article about the Paris operation, not two, and the one article should be called International Herald Tribune, which is the final important well-known name that it had. In other words, I fully agree with those who don't want

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The erasure of the history of the IHT was an odd thing to do, and it's a little surprising that it was allowed in the first place. There are many sources describing its destruction. Its staff was fired. Its name (an iconic, world famous name) was removed. Its archives sold off and not included in

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This article hasn't been redirected, but has been renamed, so the edit history is still all there. The IHT wasn't bought by another company: it's still owned by the NYT (since 2003, as noted in the article), who have renamed and "rebranded" it. But it's had several name changes over the years. Are

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article should also exist, under this name once the move is done and this becomes a redirect. This article will contain the history of New York Times' own international editions, starting in 1943 with its Overseas Edition, continuing in 1948 with its United Nations Edition, then in 1949 with its

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to cover the 1967–2013 paper. But the odd thing was that the International Herald Tribune article contained no link to this article at all; I only discovered this article by accident. So in an attempt to help readers navigate this arrangement, I put a hatnote on the International Herald Tribune

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Totally agree!! Obliterating the term "International Herald Tribune" is disrespectful to people who dedicated their lives to that paper. it also clouds the difference between the IHT and the original "trib", which is mentioned in THAT article. definitely, redirect with at least a 3 second silence

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As an example, if Rockefeller Center were renamed Walmart Midtown Shopping Center should the entire history of Rockefeller Center become just the "history" subsection of the entry WMSC? My point is that the most recent incarnation of something is not the span of history that defines that thing.

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Redirecting the IHT to the International New York Times is like obliterating 125 years of history. This is a very bad practice. Over time all of the information about what the IHT was will be shuffled off to the side. It would be much better to simply state up front in an article about the IHT

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Is there any particular reason why the Introduction notes that one of the 33 international publication locations includes Dhaka? Any reason why Dhaka deserves special note? I can't imagine any, so I've removed it from the Intro. I'm not even sure if I should include mention this tidbit in the

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William Safire is a conservative op-ed columnist for the NY Times. The IHT reprints his columns directly from there. The IHT's news reporting, on the other hand is certainly not militant. Liberation is an avowedly anti-establishment paper (it gets under the skin of both right and left-wing

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This is not the first attempt to grab the IHT history, and to place it (quite inappropriately), under the New York Times banner. A commentator in the earlier discussion pointed out that “Redirecting the IHT to the International New York Times is like obliterating 125 years of history”.

1839:, which brings this article full circle back to 1943. C) I have lots of text and cites prepared offline in support of building up the history in both articles, and I have saved the branch text for the merge, but first this move on top of an existing article needs to be done. 1505:

somehow "lost its way" or "stopped being itself", as far as I know each renamed edition continued with the same staff, distribution network, type of content, leadership, etc., of the most recent edition of its predecessor. That is, there's no difference between

1556:) I don't have a strong opinion on this, and the existence of extensive material, suggests it would be better suited as separate. I naively thought merging it would allow more work to happen, before being split again. Happy to change my vote to separate. 1259: 1249: 2074:

readers are best served by having one article that describes all the international papers that had 'Herald'/'Herald Tribune' in their name, and another article that describes all the international papers that have 'New York Times' in their name.

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begins as a brand-new organization". OK. I've said my piece. Again, I know mine is the minority opinion on this, so let me be realistic and restate: If we are going to split the articles at 2013, the changes you propose above make sense.

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Under External Links, there is still a mention of international.nytimes.com. However this subdomain no longer exists. It is simply www.nytimes.com now. The old www.iht.com also redirects to www.nytimes.com. RIP to a once great newspaper.

1934:, what you propose makes more sense than what we have now. I'll just make my little objection to put it on the record: I know I was out-!voted last time, but laying aside the romantic attachment we all (me included) seem to have for the 1568:

so that people know it's a separate wiki link (for elsewhere). It's a stub, and would benefit in terms of content from being merged. If the length grows, it could justify a split. I just don't see a compelling practical reason for it.

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in the way Knowledge treats a subject. The International Edition of the NYT will develop its own history now, and part of that will be that it evolved from and replaced the IHT, which can be noted in the Knowledge entry on the INYT.

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Your points are legitimate, and the text of the articles will describe the 'corporate sense' as you call it. But brand names matter. And the corporate history is tangled beyond just the NYT involvement. In summer 1966, when the

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If the flacks are going to write history, they should at least back up such claims as 'premier' with hard data on circulation and reader demographics, don't you think? And if this entry is not flack-authored, then it's plagiarism.

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Even if it weren't, surely would preclude editorializing about the publication's relative preeminence in its chosen market segment and its prestigious, "qualified" readership (which allows it to charge higher ad rates).

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https://web.archive.org/20150703121822/http://www.ihtinfo.com/press/press-releases/2013/february/the-new-york-times-company-announces-plan-to-rebrand-the-international-herald-tribune-as-the-international-new-york-times/

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is currently being characterized as "militant" in its article I would like to know whether the International Herald Tribune's statement would qualify this newspaper as "militant" as well? Just a rhetorical question...

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So we are back to the International Herald Tribune article not acknowledging the existence of this one. The hatnote on International Herald Tribune now says that the prior history of the Paris operation is at the

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I updated the top of this article with the fact that the paper is no longer known as the International New York Times, but just as The New York Times, with the non-U.S. editions called the international edition.

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of 2013. Knowledge doesn't split the articles of other newspapers simply because they change their names. Should it do so in this case? I don't have an answer, but I'd be interested in hearing what others think.

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is a touchstone for Americans abroad in the 20th century, and that the latest incarnation is seen as (and named as) simply "another edition" of a New York newspaper, and not fully representing the culture of the

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article ... but due to an unrelated change made in January, the redirects for Paris Herald and Paris Herald Tribune point to the International Herald Tribune article. Even though the lede bolds are still here.

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article. The main point is, the current New York Times International Edition operation really has nothing to do with the historical Paris Herald/Paris Herald Tribune/International Herald Tribune operation.

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The "Tribune" part of the name comes from the Paris edition of the Chicago Tribune, started during World War I. See "The Paris Edition", by Waverley Root. The two papers merged between the wars.

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I suspect some of the other information, like the paper being based in La Defense, is not correct anymore. However, I have no seen a secondary source reporting this. So i will wait to update.

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What are IHT policies for removing articles from the IHT web site? Should there be a retraction notice? Do newspapers of record have an obligation to explain why they remove articles?

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This seems to be the norm now. Every time a company gets bought by another company, the old company gets redirected and all of the history of the old company quickly disappears.

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It would make much more sense to delete this dodgy ‘New York Times International Edition’ Knowledge entirely and to create a chapter under New York Times (of which it is a part).

1783:– As I indicated in the section above (and no one has disagreed with me), the current arrangement of articles is unsatisfactory and there need to be two separate articles. A) The 1667:

article would, in addition to describing the current New York Times international edition, carry the overall history of the Paris operation from 1887 to 2016, hence the bolding of

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http://www.ihtinfo.com/press/press-releases/2013/february/the-new-york-times-company-announces-plan-to-rebrand-the-international-herald-tribune-as-the-international-new-york-times/

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http://www.ihtinfo.com/press/press-releases/2013/february/the-new-york-times-company-announces-plan-to-rebrand-the-international-herald-tribune-as-the-international-new-york-times/

703:--a belief in free markets mixed with a concern for social welfare. The article says the paper is Centralist, but it seems more likely that they're Centrist. Which one is it? - 2303: 1172:

The New York Times Company now plans to use iht.com to experiment with new ways to deliver information and to learn how, you, our international readers, want to follow the news.

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killed a storied and beloved brand name, but Knowledge should be describing the world as it is, and in my opinion there's no date on which you can say: "this is where the

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its memory wiped from Knowledge. This situation comes up sometimes in company histories and the well-known name has been restored in other cases, see for example

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still has a page, even though it was taken over, destroyed, and its archives disappeared. Why shouldn't the most beloved international newspaper in the world?)

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No, it is showing the whole front page of the paper. There is nothing wrong with showing how much of the front page is now dedicated to advertising. --

168: 1803:. The real history of the International Herald Tribune article in Knowledge is here at this title, going back through several moves to January 2003, 1599:

I have more to say about the destruction of memory and history on Knowledge, in particular of important media companies, but I'll stop here, for now.

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should be maintained as a separate article, even though the paper has been renamed as of today? I agree that the history section should be expanded.

1807:. A renaming should be done, with the branch text then being merged into the renamed article and post-2013 material being pulled out of it. B) The 1787:

article should contain the history of the famous newspaper that existed from 1967 to 2013 under that name, and also its famous prior history as the

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International Herald Tribune is a newspaper that was published from 1967 to 2013. The International Herald Tribune already has a Knowledge entry.

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until May 1967, when the NYT entered into the three-way ownership arrangement (with Whitney Communications Corp. being the equal third) and the

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Knowledge, please stop destroying history in this manner. This is not a phone book where we want the latest number. It's an encyclopedia.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

1501:. But then there's the fact that as a matter of corporate history, this really is one organization. Regardless of whether we believe the 1143: 972: 951: 891: 659: 460: 421: 2009:? Presumably it had the same staff, the same features, the same headquarters, the same subscriber list, etc. We may not like that the 125: 1823:

s more well-known European Edition. It was then folded in 1967 when the Times gave up and instead became three-way co-owner of the

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The International Herald Tribune is the premier international newspaper for opinion leaders and decision-makers around the globe.

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Also, I made the Jonathan Spollen disappearance a separate section. It was under "columnists" before, where it did not belong.

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Additive that tainted U.S. pet food is commonly used in China By David Barboza and Alexei Barrionuevo Published: April 29, 2007

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name over, soon followed in 2016 by the closure of the Herald Tribune offices, the sale of its archives, and the current name

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Why these repeated attempts to erase The International Herald Tribune a famous newspaper, which has an important history ?

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I've read the IHT and I have detected quite a bit of Irish cultural influence. It would be good to know just exactly how

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in 2013, and only later, after the name changed, was the Paris headquarters closed. So we have an unbroken history of

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article right now, but it is a separate branch that was created fresh in February 2021 from a history of redirects,

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in the lede here as presumably the target for those two redirects, while there would be a separate detail article

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to present, as being one organization deserving one Knowledge article. Is there a broad consensus to change this?

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I also noticed some Hebraic cultural influence, presumably because the IHT is an affiliate of the New York Times.

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was in danger of failing (and then did), WaPo bought 45 percent of its European edition, and it was published as

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article to say that the history of the predecessor and successor papers is here. And I promptly got reverted.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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If the paper is headquartered in Neilly-sur-Seine, why does the infobox list it as Paris? One wouldn't list

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As it stands now, it is in sub-literate, incorrect English, and has paragraphs and sentences out of place.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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This page reads like a corporate press release. Can we get some editors in to balance the tone please?

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Distribution section. If anybody feels that it belongs there, say so, or make the addition yourself.

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thanks for your notification. The International Herald Tribune is listed in the Library of Congress

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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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International Air Edition, and then from 1960 with its International Edition. This paper was a

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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that it was "taken over" or "rebranded" as the INYT and then have a new entry for the INYT.

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Courtesy pinging past discussants and editors who have made changes material to this issue.

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The International Herald Tribune is a widely read english-language international newspaper.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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I think the histrory of the paper goes back further than this article indicates - see

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I also added that many Paris newsroom operations were closed at about the same time.

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https://web.archive.org/20100303130208/http://www.ihtinfo.com:80/about/history.html

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Part of my proposal is to put existing (and soon-to-be-added) material about the

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http://www.itchmo.com/read/melamine-spiking-in-food-widespread-for-years_20070429

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It looked to me like the outcome of these discussions a year ago was that this

1957:. As you note, the NYT's international offering was later a competitor to the 1300:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1240:

https://web.archive.org/20150703144441/http://www.ihtinfo.com/about/about.html

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from 2002 to 2013, functioning (and subtitled) as the "Global Edition of the

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from 1967 (surely still part of its heyday) to 2002, then fully owned by the

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governments in France) and considers itself the voice of the counterculture.

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The International Edition of the New York Herald Tribune–The Washington Post

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My own feelings are split. I understand the emotional argument that the old

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This image contains an advertising. It should be removed from the article.--

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removed redirect in order to restore the page of the IHT with its history.

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The IHT’s old domain, iht.com, now redirects to international.nytimes.com

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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There is controversy around the removal of an article reporting on the

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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talk thread, it seems the topic was previously discussed by

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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International Herald Tribune - The Best in Global Journalism

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I concur with all points noted above. I'll edit this to "

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Times International Weekly could be merged into the main

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I have just added archive links to 4 external links on

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is a belief in the concentration of government power.

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see here for the origin in the early days of Knowledge

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This language is PR boilerplate cribbed directly from

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of its heyday, the fact remains that the present-day

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Flagrant Neutral Point of View Violation / Plagiarism

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http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/29/news/food.php

464:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 359:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 254:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 1304:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1953:successor, and is NOT the successor of the 1940s 1465:As we all know, the newspaper currently known as 1659:This arrangement of articles is still unresolved 1405:History section needs to be completely rewritten 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 1633:. Perhaps they would like to chime in on this. 2005:a different newspaper than the Oct. 14, 2013, 1290:This message was posted before February 2018. 2001:name was dropped. But was the Oct. 15, 2013, 174: 8: 2304:Knowledge articles that use American English 2181:articles. Is that a correct assessment? 1709:Does this approach make sense to others? 1695:Talk:Iomega#Requested move 20 February 2021 1795:and so on, back to 1887. Yes, we have an 1731:The following is a closed discussion of a 1137: 966: 945: 877: 832:economy in China, which was located here: 745: 645: 619: 586: 537:, which has its own spelling conventions ( 410: 305: 216: 1274:http://www.ihtinfo.com/about/history.html 944:Can't you even WRITE the word 'Jewish'? 2199:Do not merge and do not change the title 1837:The New York Times International Edition 1809:The New York Times International Edition 1777:The New York Times International Edition 1665:The New York Times International Edition 1562:The New York Times International Edition 1483:The New York Times International Edition 1467:The New York Times International Edition 1188:There is no longer a website at iht.com 25:The New York Times International Edition 1244:http://www.ihtinfo.com/about/about.html 412: 307: 218: 188: 2020:history ends -- and this is where the 2294:Low-importance New York City articles 1791:European Edition and before that the 728:Times-Mirror corporate communications 557:, this should not be changed without 7: 1995:New York Times International Edition 1750:The result of the move request was: 1622:https://www.loc.gov/item/sn94021607/ 458:This article is within the scope of 353:This article is within the scope of 248:This article is within the scope of 2279:High-importance Journalism articles 2269:High-importance Newspapers articles 478:Knowledge:WikiProject New York City 207:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 2299:WikiProject New York City articles 2176:, and the European edition of the 481:Template:WikiProject New York City 14: 1214:. Please take a moment to review 2212:The discussion above is closed. 1833:The International New York Times 1435:recently created a new article, 965:Is there a "flag" option here? 523: 445: 435: 414: 373:Knowledge:WikiProject Journalism 340: 330: 309: 268:Knowledge:WikiProject Newspapers 241: 220: 189: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 2284:WikiProject Journalism articles 1469:was known most famously as the 810:as playing their home games in 498:This article has been rated as 393:This article has been rated as 376:Template:WikiProject Journalism 288:This article has been rated as 271:Template:WikiProject Newspapers 2289:C-Class New York City articles 2172:, the European edition of the 1946:IS, in a corporate sense, the 699:describes the ideology of the 611:Link Back to New York Tribune? 1: 1719:12:48, 18 February 2022 (UTC) 1653:15:03, 16 February 2021 (UTC) 1609:13:54, 16 February 2021 (UTC) 1580:21:28, 15 February 2021 (UTC) 1547:20:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC) 1419:01:10, 28 December 2019 (UTC) 1400:00:17, 29 December 2016 (UTC) 1128:11:43, 17 February 2014 (UTC) 1049:08:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC) 936:16:46, 10 November 2009 (UTC) 896:07:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC) 783:Published in Dhaka - so what? 472:and see a list of open tasks. 367:and see a list of open tasks. 262:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 2071:International Herald Tribune 2007:International Herald Tribune 2003:International New York Times 1999:International Herald Tribune 1991:International New York Times 1987:International Herald Tribune 1979:International New York Times 1829:International Herald Tribune 1825:International Herald Tribune 1797:International Herald Tribune 1785:International Herald Tribune 1781:International Herald Tribune 1677:International Herald Tribune 1479:International New York Times 1475:International Herald Tribune 1437:International Herald Tribune 1426:International Herald Tribune 1385:15:34, 12 October 2016 (UTC) 1212:International New York Times 1152:06:41, 24 October 2016 (UTC) 1099:09:07, 15 October 2013 (UTC) 1085:International Herald Tribune 1077:17:39, 13 October 2013 (UTC) 981:06:39, 24 October 2016 (UTC) 960:06:38, 24 October 2016 (UTC) 941:"Hebraic??" Seriously???!!! 683:21:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC) 605:04:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC) 2274:C-Class Journalism articles 2264:C-Class Newspapers articles 2155:) 7:18, 5 March 2022 (UTC) 2147:of the New York Times org? 1965:was partially owned by the 1724:Requested move 1 March 2022 1356:05:34, 30 August 2015 (UTC) 1018:20:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 1003:12:19, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 819:21:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC) 806:as being in Boston, or the 50:New to Knowledge? 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