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This is a general problem with citing reviews of books on many WP pages. We can include text that such and such reviewer said "..." . However, consider a common situation when "this" is clearly wrong (as in this case). I would argue that including such misinformation would be a disservice for readers
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is now posting the uncut expert interviews that go into their docs is such a treasure trove. And yes, Snyder's critics do look like fools right now (at least with regard to this one aspect of his work). But of course we'll need reliable sources saying so in order to add that dimension to the article.
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Hence, these critics say, Russia just protects its interests. Well, but how about this war when Russia became an international pariah, lost hundreds billions in trade, lost the army, etc.? If anything, it proves that Snyder was right: it is driven by quasi-fascist ideologists, and yes, maybe not just
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If you have not looked at the book, you have no basis to dismiss it as "fringe." It does not make unverifiable claims and is very thoroughly cited. You would have to find a source that can DEMONSTRATE that Grover Furr is "fringe." Not just because he disagrees with your view of history. I have looked
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added a link to the term "revisionist" to describe Grover Furr. I have since deleted the adjective, which is a very loaded and poorly defined word to just slip in. I fear an edit war so I am bringing this to the talk page. Grover Furr's book definitely meets the standards for
Knowledge (XXG) citation
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The question above shows I'm not the only one who finds the phrase "the
Richard C. Levin Professor of History" totally unclear. The role of an encyclopedia is to clarify things, not to make them more obscure. There must be a way to phrase it in way that explains what a "Richard C. Levin Professor"
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I don't decide who is or isn't a historian. Grover Fur does not have a degree in history, nor does he work as a historian in any academic setting. Thus, he is not a historian. We are discussing "Blood Lies", which is what you are trying to insert into this article against consensus. It was not
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Grover Furr is a literature professor who writes pro-Stalinist stuff in his free time. He is neither a historian nor are his works published in peer-reviewed historical journals. Thus, his claims about history or historians' works - the claims of a non-historian, published in works that are not
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Neither of your linked articles do what you purport: show EVIDENCE that Grover Furr has made any errors in his book. Furr clearly spells out his methodology in Blood Lies in a lengthy introduction. Your line of reasoning now has me ask: if someone found out that Grover Furr deliberately distorted
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The other examples are just as unclear. The article about Prof. Snyder just happens to be the first where I noticed the problem. So here's an idea: let's leave the phrasing as is, but add a footnote explaining the weird
American custom of having professorial chairs named after their sponsors. —
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Marci Shore and
Timothy Snyder will be married in June 2005 in Cracow, Poland. The bride is the daughter of Dr. Stephen Shore and Mrs. Sharon Collins, and the granddaughter of Mr. Leonard and Mrs. Lillian Glickman of Allentown. The groom is the son of Dr. E. Eugene and Mrs. Christine Snyder of
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far and wide for actual refutation of Furr's work, which is quite easy to find when dealing with conspiracy theories - NOBODY has posted a single error in Furr's book, in its contents or methodology, ANYWHERE ONLINE. And I have never made another edit to another wikipedia page, thank you.
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1777:. The key word is "we", it's not that Putin openly admitted he acts just like Hitler and not that Snyder is saying this (everyone understands that Putin means the unification of East and West Germany). This is a distortion by reviewer. And so it goes. This review reads like nonsense.
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If an institute with a German name like the "Institut fĂĽr die
Wissenschaften vom Menschen" in Vienna also announces the official English version, it is useful to chose in the English wikipedia the English translation, i.e. here Institute for Human Sciences. I made that change in the
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I'm sorry, why do you get to decide who is a "historian" and "non-historian?" And actually, "The “Official” Version of the Katyn
Massacre Disproven?" was published in Socialism and Democracy Volume 27, Issue 2, 2013 pp96-129, that is a respected journal covering modern history.
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I hear you, but this really is the standard. I checked the Manual of Style talk page archives for guidance but didn't see any substantive discussion of the matter. In such a case, the suboptimal strategy of presenting other stuff will have to do: see comparable articles
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1824:, the "Reception" section seems to be hugely overblown. Some of the reviews (usually ones with direct citation provided) are interesting and tell something important and of substance. Others say nothing beyond "I like/do not like it". I can fix it.
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JAL091 keeps making major edits; while some seem useful, he also keeps removing useful content including infoboxes and references. As such, I am reverting those changes, with no prejudice if that editor or someone else actually mergers his
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Article on this very distinguished living person not very encyclopedic in tone. Lacks information such as where person was born, and so on, that a reader might want to know. Some of that, at least, is freely available. Why keep it secret?
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1752:. Author discusses the idea promoted by Snyder and others that Putin's regime should be described as fascist. Does she agree or disagree with such idea? This is not clear, but she apparently considers such idea to be reasonable (
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With all due respect for Mr. Trump, he is a former
President. Putin is a President of Russia and fights a bloody war, so he deserves more place here. Snyder has cricized several politicians, we do not even list them here.
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But the reason for
Russian revanchism is not a single individual leader influenced by a quasi-fascist philosopher from the previous century . The foreign policy of a great power is not determined by individuals but by
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Timothy Snyder is the Bird White Housum
Professor of History at Yale University, specializing in the history of central and eastern Europe. Born in 1969 in southwestern Ohio and a graduate of Centerville High School .
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Timothy Snyder gave an interview on March 11, 2011 on "New Books in East
European Studies" (cross-posted from "New Books in History"). If you would like to add the interview to his wiki, you can find the interview
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Hello, I am an intern for the New Books Network and I am currently working on a project where I link the author's interview from the New Books Network onto his/her Wiki page (if the author or their book has one).
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It is with such historical references (seizing Austria and part of Czechoslovakia) in mind that we must understand Putin’s suggestion in the speech that Germany should sympathize with the doctrine of changing
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Dayton, Ohio. The bride, a graduate of William Allen High School, completed her doctorate at Stanford University; the groom at Oxford in England. Both are historians. They currently reside in Vienna, Austria.
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In addition to being incorrectly set to title case and not sentence case, this section reads awkwardly in its writing style and does not seem to add much substance beyond what's already stated elsewhere.
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If anyone runs into any such sources –– that is, which re-examine his critical reception in light of recent events –– feel free to suggest them here and I'll be happy to do the work of drafting some text.
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One general solution is to treat all such reviews as "opinion pieces" and avoid using them, especially if written by non-notable journalists of beginner researchers no one knows about. I would do that.
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listed Grover Furr's book as WP:FRINGE. Dr. Furr is a respected academic whose book Blood Lies is incredibly well-cited. It cannot be dismissed as a "fringe" theory without citation. Any response from
1614:. Our coverage should reflect what has received attention and commentary in reliable secondary sources, not our own sense of what "deserves" pride of place. That said, Snyder's criticisms of Putin
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https://web.archive.org/20120305133627/http://www.leipzig.de/int/en/newsarchiv/2012/Ian-Kershaw-and-Timothy-Snyder-to-be-honoured-with-Leipzig-Book-Prize-for-European-Understanding-2012-21955.shtml
1102:'s article to realize that this is a WP:FRINGE author. From Stalinist apologia to denial of the Katyn killings. In fact I take it you're the same user who was active on the Katy Massacre article
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1517:(picked essentially at random) shows. If you think that we should institute a general practice of including footnotes next to named chairs, that should be taken up at a central location, e.g.
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accuses Putin of having justified the annexation of Crimea by reference to Germany’s “changing borders” doctrine, implying that Putin openly compared his actions to those of Nazi Germany
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What has Michael Moore and his film "Fahrenheit 11/9" to do with Synder? It was included in the "See also" section but the article itself doesn't state any connection between them.
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1772:. No, of course Putin never openly compared his own actions with actions by Hitler, and Snyder did NOT make such stupid claim, contrary to the claim by reviewer. Snyder wrote:
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By obfuscating the broad debate on Russia, Snyder denies the need for a serious, unbiased analysis of those features of the Putin regime that could be characterized as fascist
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This Knowledge (XXG) is not for native speakers only. India has more than 1 billion people, the majority of them not native speakers, many use this service and publish here.
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It's your task to prove that Furr is a Soviet history expert. You defend your thesis about Soviet historz in Russia or Historz faculty, not in Chemistry or Filology.
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If anyone wants to add more to any section (and thus improve the balance), you are very welcome. There was an interesting recent interview with him recently at PBS
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1676:. His book was published in 2018. After the beginning of this war, he looks like a visionary, and his critics look like idiots. One of them (link above) argues:
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I absolutely agree with your take. I'm just a bit jaded given the way previous discussions involving Laruelle's criticism of Snyder have gone (e.g.
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so I am not sure what personal opinions have to do with a mention of this major, thorough criticism of Timothy Snyder's work. Any response from
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Hi, I edited the Timothy D. Snyder page to include a mention of Grover Furr who wrote an exhaustive response to Bloodlands. In under 2 hours
1768:. This is just a historical analogy. Is she saying that all historical analogies are meaningless? Apparently no? Then she tells that Snyder
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The Bloodlands have been criticised by some Holocaust writers. Snyder has published the Black Earth (which is worse than the Bloodlands).
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Thank you! I never saw these discussions. This is a lot to digest. I will probably do something later. After quickly looking at
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evidence, wouldn't that belong in HIS "BLP?" I think you would want that in his biography, just as it should sit in Snyder's.
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been discussed in numerous such sources, so if you'd like to expand on that part, please do. 17:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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The English Knowledge (XXG) should be accessible for as broad a readership as possible, but at the end of the day it
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own criticisms make no sense. For example, no one ever claimed that Russia’s take over of the Crimean peninsula was
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Again, there's plenty in Grover Furr's article to suggest he's fringe. This has also been covered on the article on
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He also gave an interview on October 25, 2011 on "New Books in East European Studies." That interview can be found
1105:, trying to do the same thing there. So, no, there is no reason to include this one particular fringe author here.
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is. Otherwise readers may wonder whether Prof. Timothy Snyder and Prof. Richard C. Levin are the same person. —
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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simply written in English. And no, this is not a practice that is limited to America, as my example of
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all don't include the initial. "Timothy Snyder" is much more used than "Timothy D. Snyder" in Ngrams:
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Another problem is properly summarizing views by reviewers. Consider ref currently used on the page
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1720:. But having an article that criticizes a misleading review of a book?? That almost never happens.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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In another words I am right. No, I am unable to write a text about Snyder's criticisms of Putin.
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46:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
1150:. It's also of note that Furr is not a historian. Anyway, this is a BLP so this stuff stays out.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Finally, it's worth noting that most other languages have "Timothy Snyder" as the title:
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It also contravenes neutrality: "he cited McDaniel's role in trying to disassemble
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wonder whether Prof. Timothy Snyder and Prof. Richard C. Levin are the same person.
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He certainly speaks a lot of languages and has extensive citation in all his work!
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Jane_Doe_is_a_John_Smith_Professor
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With respect, I don't think that any native speaker of English would ever
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in Conclusion). It seems she criticizes only his arguments, but how?
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
1673:. I also checked a couple of critical reviews on his books like
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Also, can we get a source for the one award there. Thank you. --
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Thank you. I added a link to the interview about Bloodlands to
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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According to Rachel Maddows on Friday, September 27th, 2019:
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Unknown-importance biography (science and academia) articles
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=9247
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peer-reviewed by historians ("Blood Lies" is published by
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Furr is an English literature expert. He doesn't have any
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On 19 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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contributor may be personally or professionally connected
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contributor may be personally or professionally connected
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already redirects here). The only other Timothy Snyder,
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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Thanks, --Kristine Daggett 19:07, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
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Short Bio attached to Professor Snyder's CIV at Yale
1646:In other words, you were half right. And we're all
991:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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In case anyone wants to insert the info. See below:
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1424:at Yale, named in honor of former Yale president
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860:Shore-snyder|The Morning Call, February 13, 2005
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1944:This Timothy Snyder is also the primary topic (
1284:Check out his website and decide for yourself:
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1386:Snyder speaks five languages and reads ten.--
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603:) This user has contributed to the article.
1914:. The books that Snyder has written, like
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1982:per OP. Looks like a no-brainer to me.
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745:Trimmed notable awards from info box.
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2018:per nom, clearly the primary topic.
1874:The result of the move request was:
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1535:Noted. I'm taking the dicussion to
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2181:C-Class history articles
2035:Please do not modify it.
1999:. It makes sense to me.
1862:Please do not modify it.
1716:and be against at least
1548:Cool. Good luck to you.
1463:Peter Gordon (historian)
1438:14:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
1415:12:08, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
1373:21:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
375:United States of America
1422:specially endowed chair
1405:What does that mean? --
920:External links modified
2086:C-Class vital articles
420:United States articles
195:
2057:I suggest reversion.
635:neutral point of view
585:neutral point of view
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154:WikiProject Biography
85:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
78:level-5 vital article
1081:User:Volunteer_Marek
1077:User:Volunteer_Marek
989:regular verification
974:to let others know.
935:. If necessary, add
627:conflict of interest
577:conflict of interest
362:United States portal
279:University of Oxford
270:University of Oxford
226:University of Oxford
117:Science and Academia
1826:My very best wishes
1779:My very best wishes
1737:My very best wishes
1722:My very best wishes
1684:My very best wishes
1329:"Criticism" section
1216:Red Star Publishers
1146:is one source. And
979:After February 2018
970:parameter below to
872:, February 13, 2005
810:Reads like a resumé
502:WikiProject History
388:Articles Requested!
1950:Timothy Law Snyder
1353:"See also" section
1075:Hi, to follow up,
1059:User:Alex Bakharev
1054:User:Alex Bakharev
984:InternetArchiveBot
698:Interview Addition
196:
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87:content assessment
1900:Timothy D. Snyder
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1867:move review
1459:Samuel Moyn
1166:methodology
1100:Grover Furr
907:Stonepillar
770:Malerooster
751:Malerooster
727:the article
641:Tsnyder6321
2075:Categories
1923:On Tyranny
1917:Bloodlands
1822:Bloodlands
1803:Bloodlands
1679:interests.
1475:Ian Buruma
905:article.--
900:Stylistics
800:reply here
764:Thank you
2020:HappyWith
1964:Malerisch
1766:Anschluss
1698:Frontline
1379:Languages
1023:this tool
1016:this tool
172:Biography
112:Biography
81:is rated
40:libellous
2001:LynwoodF
1886:Lightoil
1775:borders"
1361:unsigned
1250:Faustian
1220:Faustian
1029:Cheers.—
939:cbignore
877:unsigned
792:edits.--
731:Iselilja
651:contribs
601:contribs
2016:Support
1997:Support
1980:Support
1960:Q747312
1762:exactly
1541:Kpalion
1498:Kpalion
1449:Kpalion
1310:Critics
1233:Thanks!
1039::Online
968:checked
933:my edit
543:on the
516:History
507:History
463:History
438:on the
306:on the
83:C-class
1935:, and
1906:– Per
1876:moved.
1718:WP:IAR
1650:here.
1612:WP:DUE
1407:Spafky
947:nobots
633:, and
583:, and
404:Alerts
89:scale.
1634:Xx236
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1920:and
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