753:: "This decision explicitly does not include any other articles. While there was some incidental discussion of what impact this move might have on other article's names, there was no consensus determined for that." There is no consensus established by the move from Republic of China to Taiwan that there should be a wholesale change of all mentions of "Republic of China" to "Taiwan", nor is there a clear line rule that article names of titles, institutions, and organizations must mirror the common names of countries. "Vice President of the Republic of China" is a proper name, as indicated by the capitalization of "p" in "president". The Republic of China move was justified as placing the country template in a location where people would most likely seek it; there is no such rationale here. Your examples are only tangentially related; please cite to an example where the common name does not form part of the official name. For example, "Queen of England" in the present tense is commonly used by Americans, and an example where the common name does not form part of the official name, but is clearly wrong.--
1018:. I suspect that the vast majority of contemporary references would be to "VP of Taiwan", and that the Google stats are weighted by historical references. As noted, the main ROC to Taiwan article move weighs in as evidence, but is not decisive either way, as we have a separate thing here, the vice-presidency, which it can be argued should sit under its own, technical/formal name (although the fact that it is capitalised here is not probative - plenty of people would argue that the generic part of any title should not be capitalised). However, the fact remains that historically the post was very much not "of Taiwan", hence we would have a problem renaming it. That's probably the factor that swings it - however I think this article should make clearer that this post is now generally described as being "of Taiwan" rather than of some over-arching Republic of China, as should articles that refer to this post or the post-holder in recent times.
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581:– To match with the country articles. It's President of the United States not President of the United States of America, and Monarch of the United Kingdom not Monarch of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The community have decided the Republic of China is and has always been commonly known as Taiwan.
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The difference here being that you can't call vice presidents before 1949 (or even 1971) "Vice
President of Taiwan" with any objectivity and accuracy. And you can't split the article from December 1949 onwards as the position has been continuous. New move requests can be submitted for individual
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indicated that that decision could not be used as sole justification for subsequent moves of other articles, but it didn't prohibit normal discussion at an individual level for articles such as these. There's nothing procedurally wrong with this move being proposed and it's reasonable for us to
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But the nominator was right that we have articles such as
President of France instead of President of the French Republic, or Chancellor of Germany instead of Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. The closing statement was clear that new move requests can be submitted for individual
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Have you seen an exception so far, apart from Taiwan, of a country having its common name change to something completely different over time while having its official name stay the same over this same period? This is not merely a description (e.g.
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Red Cross is clearly an official name. But for articles on presidencies, monarchies, flags, etc., their titles tend more to be descriptive, and common names of the countries are used. I haven't even seen an exception so far, apart from Taiwan.
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article move as a supporting argument, rather than a sole argument. Nevertheless, the evidence for this case differs from that at Taiwan and I can't support it based on the cursory inspection of the evidence I've done thus far.
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even though it is descriptive as a term because the article would discuss the capital and its location over a period of time, rather than as acting as a snapshot of the present, as the current redirect serves to
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Given the magnitude of the numbers, that suggests that usage is nearly evenly split. In this case it is not. You seemed have opposed the recent move decision, so why are you going against the grain here?--
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articles, but the recent move decision should not be used to justify the current proposal - arguments need to be made that stand on their own, regardless of how the recent move proposal was decided.--
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893:) but an official title. For example we have "Premier of the Republic of China" or "President of the Executive Yuan" as the title; "Premier of the Executive Yuan" "Leader of the Cabinet" and "
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What I read from the move request was that editors and readers don't care that much about something like this. What they care is that this country is now known commonly as Taiwan as of 2012.
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A Countries article is a snapshot of the present; this article is not. The article is on a official position, not a country. Taking this line of reasoning to the extreme, should we rename
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905:. You can't simply plug POSITION+COMMON NAME OF COUNTRY into a formula to force some consistency on Knowledge that doesn't exist in the real world. As for descriptive titles,
599:: Were Li Yüan-Hung, Feng Kuo-Chang and Li Tsung-Jen vice presidents of Taiwan? It appears they were, according to the latest definitions and titling rules on Knowledge.
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1065:: I was away for several days. For the record I would have voted for "reluctantly oppose for the time being", after reading Jiang's and MadGeographer's comments.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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on
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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results for the latter. There is no conclusive evidence that the latter name is more common.--
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on the basis that evidence supports 'Vice
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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results for "Vice
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618:- There is no evidence that "Vice President of Taiwan" is more
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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But I do hear the former more often than the latter.
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Start-Class China-related articles of Low-importance
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1170:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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936:. Should the article be moved? I don't think so.
622:than "Vice President of the Republic of China".
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1156:This message was posted before February 2018.
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1233:Hello. I invite you to join a
494:Knowledge:WikiProject Politics
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560:Born2cycle
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899:Taoiseach
745:Strongly
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1208:Cheers.—
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169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1262:talk
1243:talk
1139:true
1071:talk
1030:talk
1023:N-HH
999:talk
993:NULL
949:talk
932:not
920:talk
876:talk
841:talk
815:talk
797:talk
778:talk
759:talk
727:talk
709:talk
687:talk
653:talk
635:talk
605:talk
587:talk
564:talk
300:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1176:RfC
1153:).
1141:or
1126:to
939:mge
831:to
625:mge
510:Low
405:Low
176:TWL
1276::
1264:)
1245:)
1189:.
1184:}}
1180:{{
1151:}}
1147:{{
1073:)
990:–
922:)
878:)
843:)
817:)
799:)
780:)
761:)
729:)
711:)
689:)
655:)
607:)
589:)
575:→
566:)
156:)
54:;
1260:(
1241:(
1221:)
1217:(
1204:.
1197:.
1069:(
1033:/
1007:›
1003:‹
1001:›
997:‹
943:o
918:(
874:(
839:(
813:(
795:(
776:(
757:(
725:(
707:(
685:(
651:(
629:o
603:(
585:(
562:(
522:.
417:.
312:.
211::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
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