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that use it in the sense of a medicinal eye-salve (as opposed to a cosmetic) but in a different context. The condition of being unable to see the reality of the world around us is sometimes compared to the medical problem of a partially-blind person or someone with vision trouble. The use of eye-salves for medicinal purposes to improve sight is used as an analogy for the use of spiritual study to help remove weakness of inner sight. The specific medical condition sometimes mentioned for this analogy is तिमिरं (timiraṁ) which means “darkened” or “clouded”eyesight.
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Apte's "The
Student's English-Sanskrit Dictionary" p. 64. Three alternatives are given. अंजनं (añjanaṁ) in general refers to an ointment, but specifically it is a type of cosmetic used to blacken the eyelashes. Chemical composition is pulverized antimony, and the use of antimony as a cosmetic is mentioned in the Knowledge article for that substance (Macdonell’s “A Practical Sanskrit Dictionary”, p. 5). कज्जलं (kajjalaṁ) is lamp-black, and collyrium is prepared from it (Macdonell, p. 61). नेत्ररंजनं (netrañjanaṁ) is eye-salve (netra means eye) (Macdonell, p. 147).
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will set it up for
Harvard citations unless there is objection to using that method. I also notice that there is currently only one actual note in the References section, with two general books listed but not cited. I believe the best approach is to have a separate section for Notes if we do move to a more heavily footnoted format. I would like to change the structure of the citations to move in that direction.
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word's definition is how it is commonly used and that is why definitions can change over time. For example the word gender has changed from only mean biological chromosomes to also meaning gender identity. So if the majority of people would read the sentence as "false stories" then this is what the word means
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1.2 Billion Hindus on this planet and we are going to call their faith and love a "myth"? There was really no other word? Insulting and not objective. I thought this was a wiki not a place to belittle the faith of others. Many Hindu and
Buddhist pages contain this word "myth" and it's very insulting
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The
English phrase “fierce and dark like a heap of collyrium” is attributed in the article to the Garuda Purana (2.5.147-149) which is a Sanskrit text. I don’t have a copy of the text on hand, but the concept translated as “collyrium” is a common image. Sanskrit words for “collyrium” are listed in
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It is self-evidently inconsistent for an article on Yama, who will always remain first and foremost a Hindu/Vedic deity, to be represented by a picture of a
Buddhist statue. While I do not have a public domain picture on me, I am tempted to remove the Buddhist one simply for its inappropriateness to
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So the word that is probably used in the original text was either añjanaṁ or kajjalaṁ, both of which are black types of netrañjanaṁ. Yama is associated with the color black, so the image of blackness is intended. I have noticed the use of the
English word collyrium in translations of other texts
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Someone posted a question in the reference desk expressing confusion about why "collyrium" is used as a comparison for Yama, and characterized the term as meaning "eyewash". I am reposting my reply to that question below. Basically the word collyrium is not clear and as my comments below explain
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I have found a couple of references related to the iconography of Yama that may be more clear on color issues that the quote we have now that uses the term "collyrium". If there is no objection I will replace that quote with some other cites. I will probably cite from these more than once, so I
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Everyone knows that myth means false and for people with such big vocabulary you ought to be able to find a more appropriate word. Science does not disprove the existence of divine force, and great scientists come in many flavors and many faiths. I don't think a lot of them would appreciate your
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Alright but that is not how the general public knows the word. When 99.9% of people click on an article about
Hinduism and see the word "myth" we all know they think "oh this is one of those dumb old things that ancient people believed like leeches can cure headaches". If I remember correctly a
860:) 03:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC) I think the whole quote should be removed and replaced with something more clear, with a citation. I will see if I can find something. I have located an electronic version of the source text for the Garuda Purana and will look at it in the next day or two.
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obvious blatant slander on this page and others, as well as shaming me because I have just created an account. Some of the best contributors of things have to start small with one issue they are passionate about, before they can grow into community members.But go ahead and step on thay
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Another detail: The article cites 2.5.147-149, the source the other editor provided translates 2.6.147-149. In the online text I found for GarP 2.6.144 is the end of 2.6 so there is no 2.6.147-149 in that edition, a common problem with versification of these texts.
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You certainly misinterpreted that comment. I do not believe that the word "myth" demeans anyone. I have seen no evidence that it does. Since it is the best word and the one used by the preponderance of academic sources, that is the term we should continue to use.
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page clearly states that a myth and story are the same word but myth is used to demean and attack people and story is the same word but without the discrimination. This change has been reversed and I would like to appeal it with someone is there a way to do this?
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Someone just added this unsourced remark, which may be true, but can we have a citation? "However, in other tales, such as the tale of
Vyasaraj, Yama is described as a handsome man whose skin is fair as the stars at night, and eyes as dark as the deepest well."
1641:. You have actually already "appealed" the revert, by opening a discussion here on the talk page. If consensus cannot be reached from that discussion, there are other dispute resolution methods available, but it's best to cross that bridge when you get to it.
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that means exactly or nearly the same as another word". For myth and story they are synonyms as a myth is a false story so these are nearly the same word except the small difference is one can be used to demean others and the other is much harder to do so
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Now you are demeaning me as a person also? This is not a good response, and shows only that you are biased and defensive. Obviously the staff at wikipedia has some kind of anti-faith bias it seems so I suppose that is it for my donations in the
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rationale is obviously wrong, my reason is different: Yama has been seminal to many cultures and this article allows for the exploration of Yama for Hindus in detail. A similar model can be found in many other articles even within
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Merging the articles would inevitable lead to an oversimplification and conflation of content. It is better to keep the two versions separate as then it will be less prone to POV edits by editors in favor of certain religions.
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Anyways the conversation is simple. I wish for any word which cannot be used to discriminate (story, belief, tradition, etc). These are all equally factual and therefore you would agree with me. The only reason to defend this
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Why is there no reference to the yima of the Avesta? He is identical with Yama! Also according to
Harivamsa Purana chapter nine Yama was a brother of manu vaivasvatha, who is also an important person but not mentioned in the
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I have valid points and they have not been refuted. I have taken philosophy course, I know what an argument is and how to refute them and when I am wrong. May I suggest you check out the article on
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for people who believe in these things (which is many many many people on this planet). Please let's be more objective and not call these wonderful teachings such demeaning words. Thank you 🙏🧡
1384:•Only 2 articles could exist; Yama (Hinduism) and Yama(Buddhism). Would be better to merge it together, as I see no reason for seperating the articles to 3 parts. I strongly support this mergal.
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Fair enough, synonyms can have slightly different meanings. But in this case, the difference in meaning is meaningful enough that it should not be changed. In fact I believe "mythology" carries
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Neither of us know 99.9% of people or how they interpret words, but I really don't think you're correct about this. Yes, "myth" can mean "something people believe is true but isn't", as in
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1568:. Many other pages, e.g. Christian pages, also contain the word. Note, your username shows that you are only here to make this meritless complaint, not to help create an encyclopedia.
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As commonly used by folklorists and academics in other relevant fields, such as anthropology, "myth" has no implication whether the narrative may be understood as true or otherwise.
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is useless with some info Yama in other religions. It is much better to merge it into this article and all the info of Yama should be transferred into in other religion section.
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to be by
Jagdish Lal Shastri and is almost certainly copyrighted, so editors probably shouldn't be blithely adjusting its language (and the article needs to credit the source)."
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respectful of the source material. I really think this is a strange hill to die on considering that. But ultimately, reliable sources call it mythology, so we must do the same.
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Well, we follow the sources here and not our personal musings. If you can't support your argument with sources you won't get consensus backing for your proposed changes.
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Academic sources use many terms so let us use those other synonyms. I will give an example to show my position because you are being reasonable so I will try to be also.
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If the opposition only wishes for accuracy then by their own accounts story or account are as accurate. So really what is the argument for offending 1.2 billion people?
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Would make sense merging both together. Only problem is conflict between Buddhist Yama and Hindu Yama informations. But other than that, I am satisfied with this.
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Encyclopedia of Ancient Deities by Charles Russell Coulter, Patricia Turner primarily talks about the Hindu deity, while mentioning the Buddhist connection.
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So is he equivalent to Hades? Also, he seems to be the same figure from Buddhism, as both are judges of the dead, and reside in Naraka/the Narakas
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If accounts is not a word you like pick from +20 other synonyms for the word "myth" which cannot be used to demean others. I await your synonyms
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Well if you don't want discrimination I suppose we are on the same side. Let's change the word myth to one of it's synonyms and be done with it
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The proposer probably means something like Indra, Vishnu, Balarama, Kamadeva, etc. All these deities have significance in Budh.. and Jain.. too
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I believe the point is that if these words were truly synonyms you wouldn't have any reason to argue that we shouldn't use one in particular.
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It would not make sense to merge them. Not unless you mean just seperate that page out into Yama (Hinduism) and Yama (Buddhism) or something.
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How can Yama be associated with a planet that wasn't discovered until the 1930s? Notice that the source has no Sanskrit word for the planet.
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Ah wrong talk page sorry haha. I am also arguing currently on some other myth pages as this is a topic which personally is meaningful to me.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Note that someone has already objected to a change of this sort in the previous discussion started here by the OP, just above this one.
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As per the original proposal, Yama is a Hindu deity, who has significance in other religions too. According to me, the article
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This is my issue, and the issue of many commenters. I hope this example can help you understand my position better. Thank you
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I see no indication of a consensus in favor of a change on this talk page. 'Accounts' is clearly the wrong word in any case.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Not a single policy-based rationale for a merger has been provided here: I'm baffled as to why this is still open.
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The Encyclopedia of WORLD RELIGIONS" Ellwood and Alles 2007 p. 481: "Yama The god of death in Hindu mythology"
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Merging all Yama articles won't make sense. For example, Buddhist Indra and Brahma have separate articles --
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Merriam-Webster's encyclopedia of world religions p. 1153 speaks only about the Hindu connection
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per above. IMHO, The hindu god Yama has his own number of stories in Indian legend. So i oppose.
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was created as a Hindu deity in 2004; subsequently in 2006 Yama was split with creation of
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Myth does not imply it's necessarily untrue, and is not demeaning or belittling. See also
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http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil/1_sanskr/3_purana/garup2_u.htm
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That would be against Knowledge's policies as decided upon by the Knowledge community.
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We are open to using any word which is not demeaning, but what is the other argument?
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form, with major subtopics having separate pages. So, the current arrangement works.
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the article. However, I'll abstain. I hope someone does something about this. --
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2100:. I assure you this isn't an attack on Hinduism, by Knowledge or anyone else.
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I don't wish to discriminate against anyone, and you should be careful about
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should be merged into this article and resulting article should be moved to
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makes sense to me with subsequent sections of Hinduism and Buddhism.
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I have edited the word myth in both instances to say story as the
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I suppose I'll ask one more time, then do so myself. Please
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If two words mean different things, they aren't synonyms.
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the likely comparison is to a type of black eye cosmetic.
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On 24 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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is because you want to discriminate. So please be honest
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I have been arguing against discriminatory language.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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1714:Oh look, consensus is to change the word..........
1230:and the merged article will be renamed as "Yama"
1186:. So, merging the article would not remove info.
2028:Myth about Lemons means False Story about Lemons
935:Moving an unsourced statement to here for review
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33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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1863:I have interpreted this as reaching consensus.
1525:Participate in the deletion discussion at the
571:. This project provides a central approach to
2258:like Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism. We have
1661:Well the discussion makes zero logical sense.
1050:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
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1999:weight than "story", and is in turn
1041:The following discussion is closed.
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1635:bold, revert, discuss
1360:can remain separate.
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100:Neutral point of view
2242:created. Yama, like
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692:WikiProject Religion
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105:No original research
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1898:Story about Lemons
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19:This is the
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2308:Brittanica
2169:move review
2082:Mythbusters
1827:Gaslighting
1460:merge; the
1233:.👨🏻🎨 💠
1176:Wikiman5676
1142:Wikiman5676
1020:Booger-mike
942:Buddhipriya
915:Buddhipriya
888:Buddhipriya
865:Buddhipriya
833:Buddhipriya
579:the article
199:Start-class
148:free images
31:not a forum
2343:Categories
2299:WP:PRIMARY
2284:WP:SUMMARY
1750:above all
1466:WP:SUMMARY
1206:VocalIndia
1117:, such as
1110:WP:PRIMARY
1093:WP:PRIMARY
1056:not merged
1033:Merge Yama
960:article.--
2189:DaxServer
1424:Vanamonde
1402:Vanamonde
600:Mythology
574:Mythology
529:Mythology
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1960:morpheme
1570:Bishonen
1161:article.
1123:20040302
1115:Hinduism
721:Religion
699:Religion
652:Religion
281:Hinduism
272:Hinduism
228:Hinduism
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2276:Ganesha
2252:Ganesha
2106:scatter
2068:MrOllie
2039:MrOllie
2009:scatter
1983:MrOllie
1952:synonym
1948:Synonym
1932:scatter
1883:MrOllie
1845:MrOllie
1671:have to
1647:scatter
1583:future.
1470:Klbrain
1316:Support
1253:Support
1155:Support
850:appears
748:on the
627:on the
504:on the
397:on the
308:on the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2260:Brahma
2244:Brahma
2178:moved.
1964:phrase
1728:What?
1458:Oppose
1270:Oppose
1202:Oppose
1188:245CMR
1163:245CMR
1138:Oppose
1005:(Talk)
205:scale.
126:Google
2274:; FA
2268:Indra
2248:Indra
1962:, or
1954:is a
1907:means
1900:means
1492:Pluto
1159:Indra
794:moved
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477:India
466:India
422:India
370:Death
361:Death
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169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
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2001:more
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854:Deor
837:talk
792:was
786:Yama
710:and
708:good
589:and
587:good
162:FENS
136:news
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1529:. —
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1438:245
1372:💠.
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1363:.💠
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496:Low
389:Mid
300:Top
176:TWL
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