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well known are the many
Chinese sources that also describe them wearing a ‘mallet-bun’, which seems completely incompatible with short hair. Actually, the reverse side of the famous ‘Yue man’ statue, which is the photo representing this Knowledge article, features this very bun in combination with the short hair and bangs at the front. I never knew this until I read about it. I would love to have this detail added to the article. Any thoughts? You can find a more detailed study in ‘Ancient China and the Yue’ by Erica Brindley.
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article from 2011. Quite odd considering the two viewpoints seem to be polar opposites. The map by Daeva Trac seems to be an amalgamation of that map and the other names they found in the
Cantonese and Gan Wiki pages but I'm not sure how they arrived at the locations for them since I can't find any
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Having unreliable sources does not make the content superior to unsourced content. If anything it makes it more suspicious considering the greater effort to feign legitimacy. Your map is the most obvious standout with names that don't appear anywhere in the article such as Chiem Viet, Ho Viet, and
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It is well-known that the
Chinese sources formulaically describe Yue peoples to have short hair and tatooed bodies, usually with terms like ‘cut hair’ ‘unbound hair’, or ‘uncovered hair’ because it was the culture at the time in China to not cut hair and wear it under a cap after adulthood. Less
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There is an argument among
Vietnameses about whether or not Nanyue should be considered the part of the Vietnamese (as an ethnicity) history or just a foreign history that connected to Vietnam (as a nation), though most points somewhat agree that Zhao Tuo, a Chinese, named his country after a Yue
1625:
Page 152 has a section covering what the author labels: Mallet-shaped bun (chuijie 椎髻/魋結) under the broader chapter of ‘Physical
Markers of Yue Identity’. She herself cites both primary and secondary sources. Also the fact that the statue mentioned previously does indeed have a bun is striking -
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Secondly, those “flag editing” had been removed a long time ago and isn’t even related to this very subject we are talking about. Beside, if you really read the talk page, you’ll find out that the flag wasn’t fictional, but rather unnecessary since it is just an internet-based
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I admit this particular fact might be too niche for a general
Knowledge article, but perhaps a brief mention or footnote might be appropriate - or a picture of the rear side of the statue? And if anyone knows any other English sources on mallet-buns, I would eagerly read it.
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does have Hồ Việt and Chiêm Việ in roughly the same locations but it's a
Wordpress blog and does not mention any of the other names that you have added in their locations. A Google search doesn't turn up any info on 盔越 (Khôi Việt), 虎越 (Hồ Việt), 幹越 (Cán Việt), or 沉思越 (Chiêm
1272:, then argue about a non-related to this article we are arguments about, and somehow ignore what I said about those unsourced map that somehow being kept in this article (which I will delete if we agree that unsource=invalid)—
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was also a
Chinese invention (as in invented by a Chinese general) and only briefly existed at the same time as the Âu Việt and the Lạc Việt, this means that this map
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the names I added should still being kept (I have compared with
Chinese versions and after doing some results, the names of Yue tribes I added are not fake).
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First, sources are there, in both
Vietnamese and Chinese, you deleted the sources and claimed my edits were invalid (I even put the other Wiki versions and
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info on a couple of the names. For 盔越 (Khôi Việt), it's located right beside Dianyue probably because they are both in the same column on the Wiki page.
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during the 190's BCE, but during this period most of the Bạch (100) Việt were already conquered by the Chinese. This map just completely doesn't add up.
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If you need more nonWiki sources to prove the name exists (even though other versions of Knowledge have these things), then I will provide later.
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309:, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Khoi Viet. Your recent history in your talk page and edits adding fictional flags to pages reinforces the unreliable nature of these additions.
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for understanding my perspective, and as I said in the comments below, I get your point now (sorry for thinking you are just angry at me).—
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was deleted even though I have them? (More sources, especially in English, will be provided of course, but the deletion seems not neutral).
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You can find it in Erica F. Brindley’s “Ancient China and the Yue: Perceptions and Identities on the Southern Frontier, c.400 BCE–50 CE.
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article, I still don’t get why Im wrong? The map was drawn based on the description on the book.—
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For the map, I can list at least 2 maps with literally no sources in this article, and yet, only
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I just used Knowledge as a summary for all the sources though. However, after reading both @
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You can easily find a side view of the statue that shows the bun on Google by the way
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myself I also fail to find it. I will go ahead and tag the map as unreliable at the
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On a side note, the boundaries of the Lạc Việt looks too much like those of modern
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Ah yes, the good old arguments of “you used to be wrong, so must be wrong again”.
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whether or not it was actually made by a ‘Yue’, it does seem to represent one.
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version, the other names do not appear in either the Chinese or
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New Perspectives on Chu Culture during the Eastern Zhou Period
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with no reliable sources, only dead links or UGC. One
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Of the three names added to the list of Yue polities
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1661:69.11.119.31
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1427:original map
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30:This is the
1460:Thank you @
1439:Liam Kelley
159:free images
42:not a forum
1686:Categories
1511:Daeva Trạc
1503:Qiushufang
1483:Daeva Trạc
1466:Daeva Trạc
1462:Qiushufang
1448:Qiushufang
1341:Qiushufang
1308:Vietnamese
1274:Daeva Trạc
1256:Daeva Trạc
1228:Qiushufang
1212:Daeva Trạc
1191:Qiushufang
1152:Map needed
1005:...orphans
990:(5,424) •
378:Place the
1547:Princeton
1507:Hồng Bàng
1398:has to be
1320:map added
1312:Cantonese
841:Hong Kong
832:Hong Kong
788:Hong Kong
388:template
248:is rated
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
1644:Remsense
1608:Remsense
1558:Llywelyn
1394:Nam Việt
1392:period.
1328:Cán Việt
1167:included
1035:(390) •
197:Archives
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
1435:article
1431:article
1370:now. --
1360:Comment
1304:Chinese
1126:on the
1039:(1,324)
994:(6,732)
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895:history
868:on the
763:on the
736:Vietnam
685:Vietnam
660:on the
555:on the
371:tasks:
343:on the
250:C-class
165:WP refs
153:scholar
1251:party.
1247:we are
978:(348)
923:(4) •
256:scale.
137:Google
36:Baiyue
1543:(PDF)
1501:and @
1335:Việ).
1099:Macau
1094:Macau
1066:Macau
956:(290)
916:(60)
905:purge
900:watch
633:China
624:China
580:China
237:This
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1665:talk
1632:talk
1596:talk
1581:talk
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1452:talk
1443:blog
1425:The
1408:talk
1376:talk
1345:talk
1314:and
1300:here
1278:talk
1260:talk
1245:here
1232:talk
1216:talk
1198:mine
1163:maps
927:(23)
890:edit
860:High
652:High
431:Iyer
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
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1332:map
1316:Gan
1165:be
1161:or
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1118:Low
755:Mid
547:Low
459:or
335:Low
187:TWL
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