Talk:Zeus - Knowledge (XXG)

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whatever we do with the tables, they should be moved up to a "Children" or "Offspring" section (behind the "Affairs" section), and need to have prose added in some form. One of my issues with the current situation is that we have chronologically disparate sources such as Homer and Tzetzes sitting next to each other, being presented with the same weight. This is what motivated my idea of splitting the single table into multiple tables (maybe 3 or 4?), which would allow us to place sections of text in between each one, and differentiate somewhat between sources. The major downside I see is that doing this would mean we lose the functionality of being able to sort a complete table. The alternative is we merge the current tables into a single table, and then write a general prose introduction. I

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couldn't think of anything which seemed more accurate. I think the "Affairs" section (or whatever we have it called) is the most appropriate location for such a discussion of Zeus's transformations, as without those transformations any discussion of Zeus's other "affairs" would be lacking. The reason the section perhaps seems underwritten (or terse) is because I opted for a structure of "transformations", "persecutions by Hera", "affairs with goddesses", and "male lovers", because that seems to be similar to how most sources treat the matter in their discussions of Zeus, and I saw the potential for an affair-by-affair structure to get far too long, with the content contained in the section less relevant to Zeus himself in the end.

863: 247: 997:(all of which is available online, I believe). The section "Affairs" seems mostly about such disquise-conquered "affairs". As for the table itself, one issue I see is that some of those listed in the table (Ganymede, Nemesis, Rhea, and Persephone), whose "affairs" (is a rape an affair?) are not discussed in that section of the article, so perhaps they should either be discussed there or removed from the table. 1048:

like "Other sexual relationships" might be an alternative. (By the way using the loaded-term "rape" to describe the actions of a god can be problematic, we should be careful not to use the term unless secondary sources use it. For example, it is currently popular to describe Medusa, according to Ovid's account, as being raped by Poseidon, but it is far from clear that that is what Ovid meant, see note 7 at

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think it depends on whether we think there is benefit taking those pieces of information out of the text and displaying them in a table as well. Do we think there is particular added value in doing that if they are already covered adequately in the article's body? Also, if we do keep the table, should it stay in its own section, or should it be moved into the "Affairs" section (or whatever we call it)? –

708: 615: 390: 718: 687: 597: 369: 3997:, from different centuries), but for most authors there probably isn't any added value in having the work there. As for the "Date" column, it is now sortable, and, in addition, the blank cells now display below the rest (as even when the sourcing is all filled in, there will be several authors for which no dates exist). I've also removed sorting from the refs column, saving a little bit of space. – 625: 400: 301: 280: 6701: 6624: 819: 207: 958:

broken out into a table so that the reader can see it clearly and grasp that ... I don't know what. It doesn't show anything useful, like a table of melting points or densities; it doesn't tell a story like a series of monarchs; it's not a profile like a demographic breakdown. I fear it leaves the reader baffled, wondering why they're being shown it, what they're failing to see.

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Ok, I will keep it in for now, and see what can be done with it. Yes, the "Affairs" section might need renaming, since it perhaps doesn't apply particularly well to everything covered there – would you have any alternative suggestions? I chose "Affairs" because that was what most sources used, and I

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It's certainly the easier solution: we just add those two columns (which should prompt the addition of cites which are currently missing), we move the section, and then write a general prose introduction. I will post below a version with the two columns added shortly, so we can see what we think. –

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I agree that the bare table in its current form could be misleading. So if we are to keep the table, then I think it should ideally be in a section that discusses these "transformations", and introduces the table with explanations which address the potential misunderstandings you've pointed out (We

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I'm not a fan. It largely repeats information that's already in the text, takes the transformations out of their context, mixes cosmogonies, and suggests that all the stories have equal standing and authenticity. It also suggests that this is a particularly important aspect of Zeus that needs to be

910:

As tables are currently a topic of discussion, does anyone have any opinions on the table we currently have in the "Transformations" section? I'm not sure we need such a table, as I would have thought that covering that content in the article's body would have been a better idea (and I think all of

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I think so; it would make matters much clearer for our readers. If you like, I could quickly skip through the Olympians joining split tables into one, moving the references into their own column, make the tables sortable and collapsed, and tentatively slide them into a similar position not already

1176:

I now feel I made a mistake changing "a bull" to "bull" and so on, which was then capitalised. Tables often work well if you can read across them in a way that would fit into a boiler-plate sentence with maximally simple grammar, e.g. Zeus disguised himself as xxx when desiring yyy. But while it's

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in January 2022, and in many ways it's the same concern, that we're flattening our data out so that it all seems of equal weight. I wonder if rather than having multiple tables, we could add a column for, say, primary source / according to, and perhaps another for that source's period or century.

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Also I didn't mean to imply that the "Affairs" section needs renaming, its really a reasonably good one-word description to cover all the various relationships being discussed there, even though using the term to include rape might be considered by some a bit of a stretch. But I suppose something

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As to the table itself, I fear that the average reader would look at it and take it at face value, assuming that all of the versions contained within are equally "valid", without realising that stories such as Zeus sleeping with Rhea or Persephone in the form of a snake are far from "standard". I

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Actually I think the "Transformation table" (with modifications?) might have some merit, especially if combined with a section discussing this. Using some disguise to seduce/rape seems definitely to be a Zeus-related theme. I would be surprised if this is not discussed somewhere. A good place to

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Nice, added. I've also put in a short sentence or two so that the reader understands what it is they're looking at. Once an "Offspring" section is written, we could move the table into its own subsection. I suppose the natural next question is: is this a change we would like to see elsewhere? –

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Looks good. I don't necessarily mind whether we have one of the tables you've given above, or whether we have a separate section, though I can see that the former might leave the reader unsure of quite what they're getting when they click "show". The "Disguises" column first also looks to be an

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Michael, Paul; "Affairs" is a bit difficult, as much for the implication of duration. We do have tales of disguise and deceit that suggest rape rather than affair in modern terms, but even in the Rape of Europa, not so much force and violence as with, say, Poseidon. I'm warming to "Other sexual

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Sounds good. Those changes would leave the way open for the tables to be sourced (I would be happy to try), and then, once we have sufficient sourcing to avoid overly large gaps, it would only be a matter of adding in the two columns. I suppose Poseidon is probably the priority after Zeus... –

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Also, on a somewhat related note, we currently have two tables for children: one for Hesiod, and one for "other sources". I can't quite remember when we did this, but I don't think it necessarily makes sense to have a separate table for just Hesiod (despite his importance as a source). I think

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As to why figures such as Ganymede and Nemesis are not present, that was because I only got halfway through writing that section before becoming distracted elsewhere ;-), illustrated by the last two above-mentioned sections not yet existing. As to Rhea and Persephone, I think a section devoted

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Awesome. I feared abbreviated names would be too obscure but seeing the table, they strike a better balance. I do like your date-sorting scheme. I would have used 99 rather than 50 for blanks, which would allow for a modern-day Tzetzes - and maybe that's a very good reason to use 50 instead.

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Yes indeed. I hadn't imagined including the specific work; as soon as I sorted by Primary source it looked good, but I wonder if it means taking on extra work and risks a more cluttered column. Does it matter, so long as we've got a citation too? Not sure. Yes, sortable dates are pretty much

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In case I wasn't clear - too hasty - I like the use of centuries; detailed dates wouldn't be helpful even if known. I'm delighted to see that merged/rowspanning cells are handled gracefully when sorting (eg Hera clearly shown for each of the four offspring) so thanks for teaching me that!

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have pointed out with the table. And I don't think the table necessarily needs to be kept. I believe that you are currently the one most familiar and with this article and likely its subject, so your opinion carries a lot of weight with me. I am sure whatever you decide will be an

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could also include a third column titled say "Notes" which contain such explanations). As for the possible added-value of presenting this content in tabular form as well as in the text itself, provided the issues you've raised can be adequately addressed, then yes I do see

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the significant transformations are already covered in the first paragraph of the "Affairs" section). It also mixes in content which comes from Orphic accounts, and I think that a discussion of Zeus's role in Orphic literature would be best suited to its own section. –

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Thankyou for your considered (and kind) response. Since I think (I'm assuming?) we all agree on removing the two Orphic versions from the table, I will do that now, and I will also move the table up into the "Affairs" section and collapse it as a temporary solution.

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Agreed too that the Orphic theogonies and literature should have their own section and not be intertwined with the more mainstream belief system; indeed, I'd remove them from the table at once (assuming we keep it) even if they're not yet in their own section.

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specifically to the role of Zeus in the Orphic theogonies (and Orphic literature overall) is warranted, assuming it is kept well on topic, and I think that it would be good to keep Orphic versions restricted, for the most part, to that section.

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This would allow Homer to be distinguished from Tzetzes, and the reader could sort on that column. I hesitated to suggest it before the table was hidden, for fear it would make the table see unduly important, but we have more freedom now.

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I've added caps to "when desiring" as well for consistency. Personally, I think capital letters look better, though that's based purely on aesthetics, so of course we can change it back for any functional or guideline-related reasons. –

6651:

The link attached to "various others" in the list of Zeus's children leads to a nonexistent section of the article. It does not. It should unhighlighted, the link should be changed, or it should be removed and the list made exhaustive.

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That column header "when desiring" was a spur-of-the-moment heading, after I'd considered "for" and "object of interest", because "love interest" makes me twitchy (lust, maybe?). I've no strong preference for it but thought I'd try it

1083:

If we keep a table then yes, it belongs with the myths concerned - which does of course beg the question whether we should repeat the information, whether choosing that to repeat exaggerates its significance and so on. I'm still not a

926:

I do not know about you, but I have an easier time finding information on tables and lists, rather than the prose text in the body of any Knowledge (XXG) article. Knowledge (XXG)'s lists tend to be better than its FA and GA articles.

4106:

Indeed, 50 gets us to the 17th/18th centuries, and we hopefully won't need anything quite that late. I was also thinking we might use collapsible lists for figures such as the Muses, which are currently taking up a lot of space? –

6784:'''ZeF'''s '''Ζευ'''ς Zeys '''Zev'''s Zeus '''DeF'''s '''Δευ'''ς Deys '''Deu'''s Devs Verb '''δευ'''ω deyo '''dev'''o to water, to pour something. Wheathergod, Rain, Fertility, lightning thunder , Dynamis, God, Sun, Light. 1177:

fine to say Zeus disguised himself as Apollo, it's possibly quite confusing to say he disguised himself as Bull. I'd like to switch back. OTOH, I know it's working pretty well and I'm wandering into diminishing returns.

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I could imagine a section on artistic representations of the transformations down the ages (largely pictures of women in various states of undress and arousal, of course), but as illustrated text or with a gallery.

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Well, of course, I very much stumbled upon the row-spanning sorting on accident (though I'm glad it works). With regards to work titles, I think there are some cases where the difference is significant (e.g.

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Of course there are issues with the above table (places where we should be using circa, the "Date" column doesn't sort properly, inconsistent usage of work titles), but it might be a good starting point. –

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Whichever you'd find most interesting! That might be one where there's a particularly wide range of sources or source dates, maybe. I'll keep an eye out for such as I do the easy bit, later today I hope.

153: 6921: 847: 351: 6859: 1114:, since you're very good with these tables, would you have any suggestions on how we might place it? I've also thought that putting the ref tags ("") into a separate column might be an idea? – 251: 6946: 6936: 341: 4985: 6951: 317: 6324: 6941: 6186: 1229:

We've seen a plain-text heading undone, and I don't find the appearance of a collapsed captioned table helpful (examples below), so I've gone for a subsection heading again

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We may be using "transformations" a little unconventionally; I think it's more often used for permanent changes, the Metamorphoses and suchlike. I see Zeus has been put in

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Do the two of you think the table is alright to be inserted in its current state? I could commit to trying to fill in the rest of the sourcing in the next few days. –

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think prose is needed, though, whatever we do, as pieces of information such as Zeus being the father of Heracles should be mentioned in the article's body. –

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INDO : India :IN from greek EN in the doric dialect for in, middle, Do from dea dia for day, greek dialect makedonian IndeFa, Indea = Midday engl. day.

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Ok, I've tried adding "Primary source" and "Date" columns to the table. Ignoring the gaps (and missing sourcing), is this roughly what you had in mind?

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A Classical Manual, being a Mythological, Historical and Geographical Commentary on Pope's Homer, and Dryden's Aeneid of Virgil with a Copious Index

1147:

Thank you! A very small thing: in a table with so many names, I do prefer lower-case "eagle" or "bull", otherwise it looks as if they're names too.

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Those were pretty much my thoughts exactly. And a section on artistic representations, including of those transformations, might be a good idea. –

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Zen Zan Tan Zeus Zevs Ze '''Zo'''e ''' Life, Zoon, Zoa living beeing, from zeo to boil, to heat, seeth, bubble up, well up. Zesti warmth.

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Looking good. Ares is a good place to start actually, the sourcing is quite a bit further along. I'll begin work on some added columns. –

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See the note attached to her name there, and the body of the article (specifically the first paragraph of the "Seven wives" section). –

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This is false information about everything for example zeus is the greek god for thunder,lighting, rain, and winds NOT LAW or Order

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As for saving space, you might consider using abbreviations. For the Primary sources there are, of course, several standard ones.

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The root gives a the thema DiF with - Fon ending : DiF-Jon Citynames Dion Capitalcity Makedonias and Zion : both City of Light.

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Please edit in Olympians' family tree the origin of Athena to two versions - a) from Zeus only, for b) from Zeus and Metis (see

1135:] is well done. I had, at one point, considered switching the columns but forgot about it. I think this fixes several problems. 74: 6956: 6911: 6215: 6021: 5991: 5957: 5869: 5830: 5372: 5075: 5071: 4930: 1412: 893: 6466: 5873: 4788: 4175:

Yes, certainly. It would still be a great improvement if you left the rest for some unknown other editor to fill in some day.

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improvement. As to the column for references, it was an idea simply for visual purposes, and something I had seen elsewhere (

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dating and that might, ah, not be readily accepted). Overall, I like this direction. But now I need to to respond at

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I've had a go and wrapped several changes into it which may not all be acceptable, but could easily be changed back.

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benefit. But ultimately this is a matter of subjective editorial judgement, and I would be happy to defer to yours.

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En'''zy'''m '''Ζευξ'''η Zeyxi Zeuxi Zevxi '''Zevk'''si for to connect toghether. The city Ζευγμα '''<u: -->

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since years refuted. It´s an unscientific dogmatic geopolitical Ideology. The same with fake term pre-greek.

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are the only examples I can think of at the moment); it shouldn't really matter whether we have it or not. –

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Helleno-pelasgian root SdeF , F = Digamma, and S from es as ek ak ex eks for outshining. SD / DS = Z.

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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relationships" (yes, despite my cavil that a brief encounter doesn't mean they have a relationship).

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a column for references. It feels inconsistent to elevate references so, but see what you think.

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Swapping columns, placing disguises first, seems to fit it being a list of disguises better

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I have no dog in the fight of proponents vs. adversaries of that theory, just saying that

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It´s from the helleno-pelasgian Homoglossy, proto-greek root deF diF für bright shining.

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a

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Adding prose makes complete sense. The creation of a Hesiod table sprang from

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s Father Palatals K/G/CH/H/J transforms throu the Tsitakismus : J to Dsch

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Very good - we have plenty of similar opportunities in other articles.

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I think just "Bull" is fine (actually better as it's more concise).

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Ok, sure. We can wait for the perspectives of other editors. –

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but that seems unconventional too; "disguises" comes to mind.

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Yes, that was exactly what I was thinking. "cent." maybe? –

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Knowledge (XXG) vital articles in Philosophy and religion

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is not the way to settle content disputes around here.

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Parada, s.vv. Hellen (1), p. 86, Pyrrha (1), p. 159;

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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome

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Any other suggestions are appreciated, of course. –

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No hurry here, of course. – 8: 1039:I appreciate all the various issues you and 6942:C-Class Classical Greece and Rome articles 6615:Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2023 6406:; West 1985, pp. 51, 53, 56, 173, table 1. 1510: 1318: 1252: 810:Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2023 681: 591: 468: 363: 274: 6798:Araukanisch Gott '''Ze'''n Zen</u: --> 5465: 5463: 1462:Talk:Zeus/Archive 2#Sources for mythology 1078:Category:Shapeshifters in Greek mythology 6507:29 in the translation of Thomas Taylor). 4023:Good idea, I've tried out some above. – 3943:WP:AN#User:NebY (edit-war and vandalism) 662:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject LGBT studies 5017:Eleutheria is the Greek counterpart of 4327: 1962: 1912: 1805: 1592: 848:2600:2B00:8B0C:B900:E4B6:E9CD:4CBB:AFEF 683: 593: 470: 365: 276: 235: 6917:Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles 6860:2A01:C22:AC26:8000:FDBB:AC7A:652D:555B 6796:''Sumerian'' '''Zius'''udra</u: --> 6499:30.6, as cited by Graf and Johnston, 4899:; Grimal, s.v. 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Set the 434:Template:WikiProject Greece 7023: 6977:C-Class Mythology articles 6792:''' Zeygma '''Zevg'''ma. 5637:Dionysius of Halicarnassus 4943:Dionysius of Halicarnassus 4378:Hansen, p. 68; Hard 2004, 3749: 791:project's importance scale 580:project's importance scale 457:project's importance scale 352:project's importance scale 6997:C-Class Religion articles 6153:At khazarzar.skeptik.net. 5148:West 1983, p. 73; Orphic 4230:22:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC) 4215:15:45, 30 June 2023 (UTC) 4200:23:34, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4185:23:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4171:22:57, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4157:22:12, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4143:21:55, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4131:21:37, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4117:20:45, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4102:17:01, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4087:12:49, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4073:12:41, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4059:12:36, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4047:12:31, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4033:12:22, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4019:11:36, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 4007:11:09, 29 June 2023 (UTC) 3984:18:37, 28 June 2023 (UTC) 3969:12:09, 28 June 2023 (UTC) 3955:12:03, 28 June 2023 (UTC) 3932:09:40, 28 June 2023 (UTC) 3681: 3593: 3342: 3216: 2888: 2721: 2590: 2481: 2420: 2304: 2252: 2053: 1931: 1583: 1522: 1519: 1516: 1513: 1490:01:16, 28 June 2023 (UTC) 1475:15:17, 27 June 2023 (UTC) 1455:00:25, 26 June 2023 (UTC) 1425:22:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC) 1396:19:55, 25 June 2023 (UTC) 1199:19:32, 27 June 2023 (UTC) 1187:15:27, 27 June 2023 (UTC) 1172:00:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC) 1157:20:16, 25 June 2023 (UTC) 1143:19:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC) 1124:00:57, 25 June 2023 (UTC) 1098:18:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC) 1068:14:55, 24 June 2023 (UTC) 1028:23:06, 23 June 2023 (UTC) 1005:14:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC) 986:21:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC) 972:16:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC) 951:09:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC) 937:08:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC) 921:01:46, 22 June 2023 (UTC) 784: 701: 608: 573: 488: 450: 383: 345: 323:Classical Greece and Rome 294: 286:Classical Greece and Rome 273: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 6686:19:50, 2 July 2023 (UTC) 6662:19:33, 2 July 2023 (UTC) 6568:Stephanus of Byzantium, 6448:, 2 (p. 86 sq. Pertusi). 6007:; Gantz, p. 210; Smith, 5303:, s.v. Palici, p. 1100; 4460:, 15 (Torres, pp. 15–6). 4318:23:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC) 4263:22:21, 1 July 2023 (UTC) 4245:11:16, 1 July 2023 (UTC) 900:13:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC) 856:13:17, 20 May 2023 (UTC) 755:standards, or visit the 640:WikiProject LGBT studies 544:standards, or visit the 6119:Bekker, August Immanuel 5451:s.v. 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Tantalus, p. 366 5549:Bibliotheca historica 5516:Bibliotheca historica 5433:; Gantz, pp. 725–726. 4767:9.392e (pp. 320, 321) 652:or contribute to the 519:WikiProject Mythology 259:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 252:level-4 vital article 199:Auto-archiving period 100:Neutral point of view 6284:fr. 2 Most, pp. 42–5 5167:s.v. Zagreus, p. 466 4719:fr. 16 Diels, p. 183 733:WikiProject Religion 105:No original research 6163:Ptolemy Hephaestion 5673:Antoninus Liberalis 5657:Antoninus Liberalis 4714:Gantz, pp. 26, 40; 3751:No mother mentioned 1323: 1255: 6849:Life/Animalcatcher 6602:Diodorus Siculus, 6440:fr. 3 as cited in 6400:Catalogue of Women 6280:Catalogue of Women 6216:s.v. 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3055:Nymph Sithnid 3053: 3047: 3046: 3044: 3041: 3036: 3031: 3025: 3024: 3022: 3020: 3015: 3010: 3004: 3003: 3001: 2998: 2993: 2988: 2982: 2981: 2979: 2977: 2975: 2970: 2964: 2963: 2961: 2958: 2953: 2948: 2942: 2941: 2939: 2936: 2931: 2926: 2920: 2919: 2917: 2914: 2909: 2903: 2902: 2900: 2897: 2892: 2887: 2881: 2880: 2878: 2875: 2870: 2865: 2859: 2858: 2856: 2853: 2848: 2845: 2839: 2838: 2836: 2833: 2828: 2823: 2809: 2808: 2806: 2804: 2802: 2797: 2791: 2790: 2788: 2785: 2780: 2774: 2773: 2771: 2768: 2763: 2753: 2752: 2750: 2747: 2742: 2736: 2735: 2733: 2730: 2725: 2720: 2714: 2713: 2711: 2708: 2703: 2698: 2692: 2691: 2689: 2686: 2681: 2676: 2670: 2669: 2667: 2664: 2659: 2654: 2648: 2647: 2645: 2642: 2632: 2629: 2619: 2618: 2616: 2614: 2611: 2605: 2604: 2602: 2599: 2594: 2589: 2583: 2582: 2580: 2577: 2572: 2567: 2561: 2560: 2558: 2555: 2550: 2545: 2541: 2540: 2538: 2536: 2534: 2528: 2527: 2525: 2523: 2521: 2515: 2514: 2512: 2510: 2508: 2502: 2501: 2499: 2496: 2485: 2480: 2476: 2475: 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1868: 1858: 1853: 1851: 1850: 1845: 1840: 1835: 1830: 1825: 1820: 1815: 1810: 1799: 1798: 1797: 1794: 1793: 1791: 1788: 1778: 1773: 1767: 1766: 1764: 1761: 1751: 1746: 1740: 1739: 1737: 1734: 1724: 1719: 1709: 1708: 1706: 1703: 1693: 1688: 1674: 1673: 1671: 1668: 1663: 1649: 1648: 1646: 1644: 1637: 1631: 1630: 1628: 1625: 1615: 1610: 1608: 1607: 1602: 1597: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1581: 1580: 1578: 1575: 1565: 1560: 1554: 1553: 1551: 1548: 1538: 1533: 1527: 1526: 1524: 1521: 1518: 1515: 1505: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1492: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1434: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1430: 1429: 1428: 1427: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1374:I've tried it 1372: 1368: 1354: 1353: 1352: 1351: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1347: 1346: 1345: 1342: 1341: 1336: 1332: 1331: 1330:when desiring 1328: 1307: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1298: 1286: 1285: 1284: 1283: 1282: 1281: 1280: 1279: 1278: 1277: 1274: 1273: 1268: 1264: 1263: 1262:when desiring 1260: 1241: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1209: 1208: 1207: 1206: 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1100: 1085: 1081: 1074: 1053: 1045: 1015: 1011: 990: 989: 988: 959: 955: 954: 953: 907: 904: 903: 902: 873:and provide a 842: 841: 822: 811: 808: 803: 802: 799: 798: 795: 794: 787:Top-importance 783: 777: 776: 774: 728: 727: 711: 699: 698: 696:Top‑importance 690: 678: 677: 674: 673: 671: 635: 634: 618: 606: 605: 600: 588: 587: 584: 583: 572: 566: 565: 563: 532:, and help us 515: 514: 498: 486: 485: 477: 465: 464: 461: 460: 453:Mid-importance 449: 443: 442: 440: 437:Greek articles 423:the discussion 410: 409: 393: 381: 380: 378:Mid‑importance 372: 360: 359: 356: 355: 348:Top-importance 344: 338: 337: 335: 304: 292: 291: 289:Top‑importance 283: 271: 270: 264: 242: 228: 227: 218: 216: 215: 212: 211: 181: 180: 118: 117: 113: 112: 107: 102: 93: 92: 90: 89: 82: 77: 68: 62: 60: 59: 48: 39: 38: 35: 34: 28: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 7019: 7008: 7005: 7003: 7000: 6998: 6995: 6993: 6990: 6988: 6985: 6983: 6980: 6978: 6975: 6973: 6970: 6968: 6965: 6963: 6960: 6958: 6955: 6953: 6950: 6948: 6945: 6943: 6940: 6938: 6935: 6933: 6930: 6928: 6925: 6923: 6920: 6918: 6915: 6913: 6910: 6909: 6907: 6898: 6894: 6890: 6886: 6882: 6879: 6876: 6872: 6871: 6870: 6869: 6865: 6861: 6857: 6856: 6851: 6850: 6845: 6841: 6839: 6838: 6833: 6832: 6827: 6826: 6821: 6820: 6815: 6814: 6808: 6807: 6800: 6793: 6788: 6785: 6782: 6779: 6776: 6773: 6770: 6767: 6761: 6757: 6753: 6749: 6748:Michael Aurel 6745: 6744: 6743: 6742: 6738: 6734: 6731: 6721: 6718:parameter to 6709: 6705: 6698: 6697: 6691: 6687: 6683: 6679: 6675: 6666: 6665: 6664: 6663: 6659: 6655: 6654:AcousticAngel 6644: 6641:parameter to 6632: 6628: 6621: 6620: 6614: 6605: 6599: 6596: 6592: 6588: 6583: 6580: 6577: 6576: 6571: 6565: 6562: 6558: 6554: 6553:Valer. Flacc. 6549: 6546: 6542: 6538: 6535: 6531: 6527: 6524: 6523: 6518: 6513: 6510: 6506: 6502: 6498: 6493: 6490: 6485: 6481: 6475: 6472: 6468: 6465: 6464: 6459: 6454: 6451: 6447: 6446:De Thematibus 6443: 6439: 6438: 6433: 6428: 6425: 6421: 6417: 6412: 6409: 6405: 6402: 6401: 6396: 6392: 6388: 6382: 6379: 6375: 6372: 6368: 6363: 6360: 6356: 6353: 6349: 6344: 6341: 6337: 6334: 6330: 6326: 6322: 6317: 6314: 6311: 6308: 6307: 6303: 6297: 6292: 6289: 6285: 6282: 6281: 6276: 6270: 6267: 6263: 6259: 6254: 6251: 6245: 6242: 6238: 6235: 6234: 6229: 6224: 6221: 6217: 6213: 6210:; Hard 2004, 6209: 6206: 6205: 6200: 6195: 6192: 6188: 6184: 6180: 6175: 6172: 6168: 6164: 6159: 6156: 6150: 6146: 6145: 6137: 6132: 6126: 6125: 6120: 6116: 6112: 6106: 6103: 6098: 6091: 6088: 6084: 6080: 6076: 6071: 6069: 6065: 6061: 6060: 6053: 6050: 6046: 6043: 6042: 6037: 6033: 6029: 6028: 6023: 6017: 6014: 6010: 6006: 6003: 6002: 5997: 5993: 5990: 5989: 5984: 5979: 5976: 5972: 5969: 5968: 5963: 5959: 5956: 5955: 5950: 5946: 5942: 5941: 5934: 5931: 5927: 5924: 5923: 5918: 5915:; Hard 2004, 5914: 5910: 5909: 5903: 5900: 5896: 5893: 5892: 5887: 5882: 5879: 5875: 5871: 5868: 5867: 5862: 5857: 5854: 5850: 5849: 5844: 5839: 5836: 5832: 5831:s.v. Endymion 5828: 5824: 5823: 5817: 5814: 5810: 5809: 5804: 5799: 5796: 5792: 5788: 5783: 5780: 5776: 5772: 5771: 5766: 5762: 5757: 5754: 5750: 5749: 5744: 5740: 5739:s.v. Themisto 5736: 5735: 5729: 5726: 5722: 5718: 5713: 5710: 5706: 5702: 5698: 5694: 5690: 5687: 5686: 5682: 5678: 5674: 5669: 5666: 5662: 5658: 5653: 5650: 5646: 5642: 5638: 5633: 5630: 5627: 5624: 5623: 5618: 5613: 5610: 5606: 5602: 5598: 5592: 5589: 5585: 5584: 5578: 5573: 5570: 5566: 5560: 5557: 5554: 5551: 5550: 5545: 5540: 5537: 5534: 5528: 5525: 5521: 5518: 5517: 5512: 5507: 5504: 5500: 5497: 5496: 5491: 5486: 5483: 5479: 5476:; Hard 2004, 5475: 5471: 5466: 5464: 5460: 5456: 5452: 5448: 5444: 5439: 5436: 5432: 5429:; Hard 2004, 5428: 5424: 5420: 5416: 5411: 5408: 5404: 5401: 5400: 5395: 5390: 5387: 5383: 5380: 5379: 5374: 5371: 5370: 5365: 5360: 5357: 5353: 5350: 5349: 5343: 5340: 5336: 5333:; Hard 2004, 5332: 5328: 5323: 5320: 5316: 5312: 5311: 5306: 5302: 5301: 5296: 5290: 5287: 5283: 5279: 5274: 5271: 5267: 5264:; Hard 2004, 5263: 5260: 5259: 5254: 5250: 5246: 5245: 5239: 5236: 5232: 5226: 5223: 5219: 5216:; Keightley, 5215: 5209: 5206: 5202: 5199: 5198: 5193: 5188: 5185: 5181: 5178: 5177: 5172: 5168: 5162: 5159: 5155: 5151: 5145: 5142: 5138: 5135:; Hard 2004, 5134: 5130: 5129: 5123: 5120: 5116: 5113:; Hard 2004, 5112: 5108: 5103: 5100: 5096: 5095: 5090: 5086: 5083: 5082: 5077: 5073: 5069: 5066: 5065: 5060: 5056: 5052: 5046: 5043: 5039: 5036: 5032: 5028: 5024: 5020: 5014: 5011: 5007: 5003: 4999: 4996: 4992: 4988: 4987: 4981: 4978: 4974: 4971: 4970: 4965: 4960: 4957: 4953: 4950: 4949: 4944: 4939: 4936: 4932: 4931:s.v. Agdistis 4926: 4923: 4919: 4916: 4915: 4909: 4906: 4902: 4898: 4894: 4889: 4886: 4883: 4879: 4875: 4872: 4871: 4866: 4861: 4858: 4855: 4851: 4847: 4843: 4838: 4835: 4831: 4828: 4827: 4822: 4817: 4814: 4811: 4808: 4807: 4802: 4797: 4794: 4790: 4786: 4785: 4780: 4775: 4772: 4768: 4765: 4764: 4759: 4755: 4752: 4751: 4746: 4741: 4738: 4734: 4733: 4729: 4724: 4720: 4717: 4711: 4708: 4704: 4701: 4697: 4692: 4689: 4686: 4683: 4682: 4677: 4672: 4669: 4665: 4661: 4658: 4657: 4652: 4647: 4644: 4640: 4636: 4633: 4632: 4627: 4622: 4619: 4615: 4612: 4611: 4606: 4602: 4596: 4593: 4589: 4586: 4585: 4580: 4576: 4570: 4567: 4563: 4560: 4559: 4554: 4550: 4544: 4541: 4537: 4534: 4533: 4528: 4524: 4518: 4515: 4511: 4508: 4507: 4502: 4498: 4492: 4489: 4485: 4482: 4481: 4476: 4472: 4466: 4463: 4459: 4455: 4450: 4447: 4443: 4439: 4438: 4434: 4427: 4424: 4420: 4417: 4416: 4411: 4407: 4401: 4398: 4394: 4391: 4390: 4385: 4381: 4375: 4372: 4368: 4365: 4364: 4359: 4355: 4349: 4346: 4340: 4337: 4331: 4328: 4324: 4320: 4319: 4315: 4311: 4310:Michael Aurel 4264: 4260: 4256: 4252: 4248: 4247: 4246: 4242: 4238: 4233: 4232: 4231: 4227: 4223: 4222:Michael Aurel 4218: 4217: 4216: 4212: 4208: 4203: 4202: 4201: 4197: 4193: 4192:Michael Aurel 4188: 4187: 4186: 4182: 4178: 4174: 4173: 4172: 4168: 4164: 4163:Michael Aurel 4160: 4159: 4158: 4154: 4150: 4146: 4144: 4141: 4138: 4134: 4132: 4128: 4124: 4123:Michael Aurel 4121:Ok, added. – 4120: 4119: 4118: 4114: 4110: 4109:Michael Aurel 4105: 4104: 4103: 4099: 4095: 4090: 4089: 4088: 4084: 4080: 4079:Michael Aurel 4076: 4075: 4074: 4070: 4066: 4065:Michael Aurel 4062: 4061: 4060: 4057: 4054: 4050: 4049: 4048: 4044: 4040: 4039:Michael Aurel 4036: 4034: 4030: 4026: 4025:Michael Aurel 4022: 4021: 4020: 4017: 4014: 4010: 4009: 4008: 4004: 4000: 3999:Michael Aurel 3996: 3992: 3987: 3986: 3985: 3981: 3977: 3972: 3971: 3970: 3966: 3962: 3961:Michael Aurel 3958: 3957: 3956: 3952: 3948: 3944: 3940: 3935: 3934: 3933: 3929: 3925: 3924:Michael Aurel 3920: 3919: 3918: 3917: 3908: 3906:1st cent. BC 3905: 3903: 3900: 3898: 3895: 3894: 3891: 3889:2nd cent. AD 3888: 3886: 3883: 3881: 3878: 3877: 3874: 3872:6th cent. AD 3871: 3869: 3866: 3864: 3860: 3856: 3853: 3852: 3849: 3847:1st cent. AD 3846: 3844: 3843:Valer. Flacc. 3841: 3839: 3836: 3835: 3832: 3830:8th cent. BC 3829: 3827: 3826: 3822: 3819: 3817: 3814: 3813: 3810: 3808: 3806: 3804: 3801: 3800: 3797: 3795:3rd cent. BC 3794: 3792: 3789: 3787: 3784: 3783: 3780: 3778:8th cent. BC 3777: 3775: 3774: 3770: 3767: 3765: 3762: 3761: 3758: 3756: 3754: 3752: 3747: 3744: 3743: 3740: 3738:6th cent. BC 3737: 3735: 3734: 3730: 3727: 3725: 3722: 3720: 3716: 3713: 3712: 3709: 3707:6th cent. AD 3706: 3704: 3701: 3698: 3697: 3694: 3691: 3689: 3686: 3684: 3679: 3676: 3675: 3672: 3670:6th cent. BC 3669: 3667: 3666: 3662: 3659: 3657: 3654: 3652: 3649: 3648: 3645: 3643:5th cent. BC 3642: 3640: 3637: 3635: 3632: 3631: 3628: 3626:1st cent. AD 3625: 3623: 3622: 3618: 3615: 3613: 3610: 3609: 3606: 3603: 3601: 3598: 3596: 3591: 3588: 3587: 3584: 3581: 3579: 3576: 3574: 3571: 3569: 3566: 3565: 3562: 3560:6th cent. BC 3559: 3557: 3556: 3552: 3549: 3547: 3544: 3542: 3538: 3535: 3534: 3531: 3528: 3526: 3523: 3521: 3518: 3516: 3512: 3509: 3508: 3505: 3503: 3501: 3499: 3496: 3494: 3491: 3490: 3487: 3485:1st cent. BC 3484: 3482: 3481: 3476: 3473: 3471: 3468: 3465: 3464: 3461: 3459: 3457: 3455: 3452: 3450: 3446: 3445:Helen of Troy 3443: 3442: 3439: 3437:8th cent. BC 3436: 3434: 3433: 3429: 3426: 3424: 3421: 3419: 3416: 3415: 3412: 3410:2nd cent. AD 3409: 3407: 3404: 3402: 3399: 3396: 3392: 3389: 3388: 3385: 3383: 3381: 3378: 3376: 3373: 3371: 3368: 3367: 3364: 3362: 3360: 3358: 3355: 3354: 3351: 3349: 3347: 3345: 3339: 3336: 3335: 3332: 3330: 3328: 3326: 3323: 3321: 3318: 3317: 3314: 3312: 3310: 3308: 3305: 3303: 3300: 3299: 3296: 3294: 3292: 3290: 3287: 3285: 3282: 3281: 3278: 3276:6th cent. BC 3275: 3273: 3272: 3268: 3265: 3263: 3260: 3259: 3256: 3254:8th cent. BC 3253: 3251: 3250: 3246: 3243: 3241: 3238: 3237: 3234: 3232:8th cent. BC 3231: 3229: 3228: 3224: 3221: 3219: 3214: 3211: 3210: 3207: 3205: 3203: 3201: 3198: 3196: 3193: 3192: 3189: 3187:1st cent. AD 3186: 3184: 3183: 3179: 3176: 3174: 3171: 3169: 3166: 3165: 3162: 3160:8th cent. BC 3159: 3157: 3156: 3152: 3149: 3147: 3144: 3142: 3139: 3138: 3135: 3133:6th cent. AD 3132: 3130: 3127: 3125: 3122: 3120: 3116: 3113: 3112: 3109: 3107: 3105: 3103: 3100: 3098: 3094: 3091: 3090: 3087: 3085:6th cent. AD 3084: 3082: 3079: 3077: 3074: 3072: 3069: 3068: 3065: 3063:2nd cent. AD 3062: 3060: 3057: 3054: 3052: 3049: 3048: 3045: 3043:5th cent. BC 3042: 3040: 3037: 3035: 3032: 3030: 3027: 3026: 3023: 3021: 3019: 3016: 3014: 3011: 3009: 3006: 3005: 3002: 3000:2nd cent. AD 2999: 2997: 2994: 2992: 2989: 2987: 2984: 2983: 2980: 2978: 2976: 2974: 2971: 2969: 2966: 2965: 2962: 2959: 2957: 2954: 2952: 2949: 2947: 2944: 2943: 2940: 2938:1st cent. BC 2937: 2935: 2932: 2930: 2927: 2925: 2922: 2921: 2918: 2916:5th cent. AD 2915: 2913: 2910: 2908: 2905: 2904: 2901: 2898: 2896: 2893: 2891: 2886: 2883: 2882: 2879: 2877:6th cent. AD 2876: 2874: 2871: 2869: 2866: 2864: 2861: 2860: 2857: 2855:1st cent. AD 2854: 2852: 2851:Valer. Flacc. 2849: 2846: 2844: 2841: 2840: 2837: 2835:1st cent. BC 2834: 2832: 2829: 2827: 2824: 2822: 2818: 2814: 2811: 2810: 2807: 2805: 2803: 2801: 2798: 2796: 2793: 2792: 2789: 2787:1st cent. BC 2786: 2784: 2781: 2779: 2776: 2775: 2772: 2769: 2767: 2764: 2762: 2758: 2755: 2754: 2751: 2749:5th cent. AD 2748: 2746: 2743: 2741: 2738: 2737: 2734: 2731: 2729: 2726: 2724: 2719: 2716: 2715: 2712: 2710:2nd cent. AD 2709: 2707: 2704: 2702: 2699: 2697: 2694: 2693: 2690: 2687: 2685: 2682: 2680: 2677: 2675: 2672: 2671: 2668: 2666:5th cent. BC 2665: 2663: 2660: 2658: 2655: 2653: 2650: 2649: 2646: 2644:8th cent. BC 2643: 2641: 2640: 2636: 2633: 2630: 2628: 2624: 2621: 2620: 2617: 2615: 2612: 2610: 2607: 2606: 2603: 2600: 2598: 2595: 2593: 2588: 2585: 2584: 2581: 2578: 2576: 2573: 2571: 2568: 2566: 2563: 2562: 2559: 2556: 2554: 2551: 2549: 2546: 2543: 2542: 2539: 2537: 2535: 2533: 2530: 2529: 2526: 2524: 2522: 2520: 2517: 2516: 2513: 2511: 2509: 2507: 2504: 2503: 2500: 2498:1st cent. BC 2497: 2495: 2494: 2489: 2486: 2484: 2478: 2477: 2474: 2472: 2470: 2468: 2465: 2464: 2461: 2459:5th cent. AD 2458: 2456: 2453: 2451: 2448: 2447: 2444: 2442:2nd cent. AD 2441: 2439: 2436: 2434: 2431: 2430: 2427: 2425: 2423: 2418: 2415: 2414: 2411: 2409:7th cent. BC 2408: 2406: 2405: 2401: 2399: 2396: 2394: 2393:Helen of Troy 2391: 2390: 2387: 2384: 2382: 2379: 2377: 2374: 2372: 2369: 2368: 2365: 2363:8th cent. BC 2362: 2360: 2359: 2355: 2352: 2350: 2347: 2346: 2343: 2341: 2339: 2337: 2334: 2333: 2330: 2328: 2326: 2324: 2321: 2320: 2317: 2315:5th cent. BC 2314: 2312: 2309: 2307: 2302: 2299: 2298: 2295: 2293:5th cent. AD 2292: 2290: 2287: 2285: 2282: 2281: 2278: 2276:1st cent. BC 2275: 2273: 2270: 2268: 2265: 2264: 2261: 2259: 2257: 2255: 2250: 2247: 2246: 2243: 2241: 2239: 2236: 2234: 2231: 2229: 2226: 2225: 2222: 2219: 2217: 2214: 2212: 2209: 2207: 2204: 2203: 2200: 2198:8th cent. BC 2197: 2195: 2194: 2190: 2187: 2185: 2182: 2180: 2177: 2176: 2173: 2171: 2169: 2167: 2164: 2162: 2159: 2158: 2155: 2153:1st cent. BC 2152: 2150: 2149: 2144: 2141: 2139: 2136: 2133: 2130: 2129: 2126: 2124:1st cent. AD 2123: 2121: 2118: 2116: 2113: 2111: 2108: 2107: 2104: 2102:6th cent. AD 2101: 2099: 2096: 2094: 2091: 2089: 2086: 2085: 2082: 2080:3rd cent. AD 2079: 2077: 2074: 2072: 2069: 2068: 2065: 2063: 2061: 2058: 2056: 2051: 2048: 2047: 2044: 2042:5th cent. BC 2041: 2039: 2036: 2034: 2031: 2029: 2026: 2025: 2022: 2020:1st cent. AD 2019: 2017: 2016: 2012: 2009: 2006: 2003: 2001: 1998: 1997: 1994: 1992:8th cent. BC 1991: 1989: 1988: 1984: 1981: 1976: 1973: 1971: 1968: 1966: 1963: 1959: 1953: 1952: 1949: 1947:8th cent. BC 1946: 1944: 1943: 1939: 1936: 1934: 1926: 1923: 1921: 1918: 1916: 1913: 1909: 1903: 1902: 1899: 1897:8th cent. BC 1896: 1894: 1893: 1889: 1886: 1884: 1881: 1879: 1876: 1875: 1872: 1870:8th cent. BC 1869: 1867: 1866: 1862: 1859: 1857: 1854: 1849: 1846: 1844: 1841: 1839: 1836: 1834: 1831: 1829: 1826: 1824: 1821: 1819: 1816: 1814: 1811: 1809: 1806: 1802: 1796: 1795: 1792: 1790:8th cent. BC 1789: 1787: 1786: 1782: 1779: 1777: 1774: 1772: 1769: 1768: 1765: 1763:8th cent. BC 1762: 1760: 1759: 1755: 1752: 1750: 1747: 1745: 1742: 1741: 1738: 1736:8th cent. BC 1735: 1733: 1732: 1728: 1725: 1723: 1720: 1718: 1714: 1711: 1710: 1707: 1705:8th cent. BC 1704: 1702: 1701: 1697: 1694: 1692: 1689: 1687: 1683: 1679: 1676: 1675: 1672: 1670:1st cent. AD 1669: 1667: 1664: 1662: 1658: 1654: 1651: 1650: 1647: 1645: 1643: 1642: 1638: 1636: 1633: 1632: 1629: 1627:8th cent. BC 1626: 1624: 1623: 1619: 1616: 1614: 1611: 1606: 1603: 1601: 1598: 1596: 1593: 1589: 1582: 1579: 1577:8th cent. BC 1576: 1574: 1573: 1569: 1566: 1564: 1561: 1559: 1556: 1555: 1552: 1550:8th cent. 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