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1147:, which is quite obviusly an inherently different coat of arms, yet you continually fail to recognise this distinction. The shield you have replaced it with has absolutely no official application in any Scottish political or governmental institutions, and as such would appear to be an unjustified political statement which you repeatedly insist on making to the detriment of the topic's accuracy. Sweenato 20:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
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being a template dealing with the
Scotland of the past 400 years, and not of the middle ages and the House of Stuart's Scotland exclusively. I suggest this anachronistic nationalism should be stopped, and the official arms used by Scotland for hundreds of years both as an independent kingdom and as a nation in union be used.
331:. Now some Scots may feel that Scotland should be a republic but this is an encyclopedia meant to represent reality not political points of view. Unless I hear to the contrary I will report the continued changes as a Point of View Dispute and request a formal vote with intervention from senior editors.
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For some time this template has had the royal arms of
Scotland as used by the government in Scotland, which is a variation of the arms used by the Scottish Parliament on its legislation. A nameless IP editor is adding the anachronistic arms of the medieval kings of Scotland before 1604, despite this
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this one was used by the
Kingdom of England and its subordinate principality, Wales. They were subsequently inherited by the UK for use in the relevant constituent country. I imagine the latter is now in most cases representative of the entire UK due to the fact it was the one in more widespread use
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Are you saying that the coat of arms currently used is not the
Scottish Royal Arms? Anyone can look at the evidence I posted to see that these are the Royal Arms actually used by the political instituions listed in the template. All other politics templates in Knowledge (XXG) use the Coat of arms in
742:
That is obviously incorrect. These are the Royal Arms used in
Scotland (which is part of the UK anyway). It's use in this template is correct since it is the arms used by the Scottish Government, and the arms that appear on all Acts of the Scottish Parliament and statutory instruments. It appears on
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Since this issue has been raised again, any issues pertinent to heraldry - as the tags on the image make clear - are not matters of copyright. Moreover, the offence relating to use of arms in
Scotland is usurption, not use. This is very clearly an original artistic work, under the same US copyright
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I'm glad to see the return of the
Scottish arms here, to bring us into line with other such infoboxes. However these seems to be a question regarding free use: it seems obvious to me that in the United States, which has no heraldic authority of laws, this is quite clearly an original work and hence
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I've switched the title of the
Scottish Parliamentary Elections from General Election to Parliamentary Election so as to avoid confusion with the UK wide General Election for those not altogether familiar with the various elections present throughout the UK. There seems to be little activity on the
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The Royal Arms are used by HM The Queen as head of state in
Scotland, and also by the courts and legislation. See below for evidence. The use of the Royal Arms for Scotland is consistent with the rest of Knowledge (XXG), and uses the arms actually used in Scotland, not defunct arms not used since
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Depends what you characterise as 'official' - legal documents, statute and so forth are all what I class to be official, and it's worth noting that HM Government still uses
Scottish Executive. But of now Scottish Government is becoming more common in usage and is a term of self-identification, as
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title of the Scottish Government under law, hence making the point that the rebranding was as a result, politically motivated, therefore because the arms were replaced in practice by a saltire has in itself no credibility in arguing the case against the official use of the arms, which are in
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Is the image used on this template free use? I was under the impression that Royal Arms and departmental logos may not be reproduced freely. Unless, of course, authorisation to reproduce the departmental logo and use it here has been obtained, but I do not see that on the image
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I'd prefer the flag, which is symbolic of the Nation of Scotland, whereas the arms of the UK are the arms of the UK Monarch, with English bias. The Scottish Arms would be more acceptable than the UK Arms, but overall I'd say the National Flag would be preferable.
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It has been pointed out that the institutions above use the Royal Arms: Queen, Parliament, Courts and Law- while the Government uses a variant. They do not use a defunct coat of arms. And all other politics templates use the coat of arms rather than a flag.
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The template is Politics of Scotland not Politics of the United Kindgom, and the Scottish courts does not use the arms they use a different version without the flags the same goes for the Scotland office and the Scottish Government when it used them
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The mottoes read 'In defence' and 'No one will attack me with impunity'. From the times of the Stuart kings, the Scottish quarterings have been used for official purposes in Scotland (for example, on official buildings and official
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I have been using the template in articles about Scottish Parliament constituencies. Not sure this is appropriate, as individual constituency articles are not listed by in the template itself. Is there a similar template, without
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Politics of X templates I looked at show coats of arms. Is there any reason why Scotland should buck the trend ? Which coat of arms it should be can easily be determined by looking at official documents to see what they use.
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Indeed it should, as it is the term officially used by the Scottish Executive and is the legal term (although some may dispute that it is used more widely than statute permits to refer to the entire Scottish Administration.
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Since creation this template has carried an image of the flag of Scotland. User:Astrotrain has been trying to unilaterally, without explanation, change the image to the Arms of the United Kingdom. What do other users think?
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the latter is a version used by the monarch for use Scotland a stipulation in the act of union that the monarch have a Scottish version of the arms the Lion rampant shield remains the Cost of arms of Scotland hence why
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Royal arms of Scotland was due to the politically motivated unilateral rebranding of the Scottish Executive carried out by the SNP after they formed their administration. In terms of the official
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There's no consensus for the wording "General Election" on that page at all, the consensus, if anything points towards "General election to the Scottish Parliament" or some such similar wording.
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The Scottish version of the Royal coat of arms shows the lion of Scotland in the first and fourth quarters, with that of England being in the second. The harp of Ireland is in the third quarter.
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Yes it is the version of the Coat of arms of the United Kindgon that is used in Scotland just as the arms shown on the politics of the UK template is the version that is used elsewhere. --
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All the courts in England and Wales and the UK Government use the other version of the UK arms does that make them the coat of arms of england and wales ? from the UK royal website
1220:, so to answer your question, I suppose it would be yes. This is demonstrated by the specifically Scottish quartering of the shield and the use of the Scottish National Motto
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We cannot use the Royal Coat of Arms as it is Crown Copyright however I have changed it to the Scottish Executive's logo as this is the symbol of the goverment of Scotland. --
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That has nothing to do with this template. This template is for politics in Scotland and as pointed out above, all the political institutions use the Royal Arms.
525:(which seems to imply that the article in which the template appears should be listed as one of the series) and designed to sit at the foot of an article page?
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This all came up some weeks ago: we cannot use the "Scottish Quartering" in templates, because of image licensing issues. The UK arms were also removed from
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1143:, yet you on the other hand have provided no actual sources to verify what has been up to this stage your personal insistence that it is actually the
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I see no reason why the Scottish Quatering has been removed in favour of the National Flag, when all the Courts, Parliament and the Executive use the
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A crest is not the same as a coat of arms. A crest is only one part of the full coat of arms: the three-dimensional object placed on top of the helm.
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was a separate political entity. They derive their relatively common origins from the fact that both Kingdoms were in dynastic union under the
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laws as everything else. There is no sensible dispute to be made as to its status or any of the other heraldic works on Knowledge (XXG). --
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is still used by the monarch either the coat of arms of scotland get used or the Saltire anything else is just incorrect. --
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widespread offical use in Scottish Institutions as indicated above by another editor. Sweenato 15:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
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Scotland and neither the UK Parliament or the Scottish Government use those arms and the Scotland Office uses a variant. --
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You are quite correct. They spotted the same issue over at the UK politics template in May, and promptly removed the Arms:
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The coat of arms is actively used in politics, appearing on all Acts of Parliament, offical documents, court buildings etc
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Well the new official name is "Scottish Government", Scottish Executive is now confined to contracts and legislation. --
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Specific sources have been provided by other editors clearly demonstrating that indeed the distinctive post-1707
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Scottish politics, not just the Scottish Executive, which is only one topic in a very wide range of articles.) --
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talk page so I've made the changes but if anybody wants to switch it back and start a discussion, feel free.
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Separate Scottish and English quarterings of the Royal arms originate from the Union of the Crown in 1603.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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properly licensed, freely. That was, after all, the reason the image was created in the first place. --
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The offence is not 'use' or display but rather 'usurpation'. There is a very noteworthy difference. --
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Surely the offical name of "Scottish Executive" should be used rather than the unoffical term?
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makes no mention of what the arms of the Scottish Executive uses, the UK has two coat of arms
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Elections to the Scottish Parliament are called general elections please see this discussion
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and the Scottish Parliament election pages states that it is for the devolved parliament.--
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We are using the Royal Arms in Scotland, which are actually still in use, as noted above.
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It is standard to use the coat of arms in a politics template rather than a national flag
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But Barry, the exact same rules apply to those Arms as they do to the Royal Arms:
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due to the relative size of England and Wales vis a vis Scotland. As regards the
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Why start the list of Westminster elections with 1997, rather than, say, 1708?
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Would the IP address please stop adding the UK arms into this template look at
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The arms are the main image in the politics section of the main Scotland page
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remains in official use by specifically Scottish institutions, namely the
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Talk:Scottish Parliament election, 2007#Is this really a General Election?
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and before the single entity of the United Kingdom actually existed,
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actually predate the United Kingdom itself, as they were used before
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Template talk:Politics of the United Kingdom#Royal Arms in templates
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It is still the UK arms hence why it is not in the infobox in the
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this one was originally the arms of the Kingdom of Scotland and
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as for defunct arms you refer to that is not the case as its
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Royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom as used in Scotland
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is a technically a criminal offence. I will revert to the
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The Scottish Executive's arms and logo all feature the arms
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There were two different arms which were in use after the
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From the source you cited above, it would appear that the
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I have restored the flag which was used until recently. --
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
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for use in Scotland, its use in this template is wrong --
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Template-Class Politics of the United Kingdom articles
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NA-importance Politics of the United Kingdom articles
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Template:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom
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40:WikiProjects
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1380:Laurel Bush
1212:, when the
1050:—Preceding
967:—Preceding
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814:—Preceding
745:—Preceding
713:is not the
626:Heligoland
584:Heligoland
527:Laurel Bush
462:Davidkinnen
333:Davidkinnen
1417:Categories
1401:GPinkerton
1273:(Contribs)
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840:article --
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717:it is the
271:Astrotrain
238:Astrotrain
563:Mais oui!
454:Lord Lyon
417:Mais oui!
358:Mais oui!
216:Mais oui!
1226:de facto
1052:unsigned
969:unsigned
902:unsigned
838:Scotland
816:unsigned
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638:Contribs
596:Contribs
255:ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ
250:Calgacus
113:Scotland
100:Scotland
59:Scotland
30:template
1330:de jure
1268:Barryob
1230:de jure
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874:Barryob
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769:Barryob
724:Barryob
672:Barryob
541:page.--
1278:(Talk)
1170:(Talk)
1135:, the
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1021:(Talk)
1006:banner
944:(Talk)
884:(Talk)
853:(Talk)
790:1603.
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288:(Talk)
36:scale.
1394:Image
612:Barry
379:Barry
308:Canæn
209:Image
28:This
1405:talk
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1314:1603
1263:this
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1240:The
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711:This
706:Arms
692:talk
632:Talk
590:Talk
102:and
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543:Bob
413:all
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